Bilge Pump Vent

[Larry Byers]

I just arrived in Jamaica from Panama. During the trip, my bilge started filling. It turned out it was the bilge pump vent that wouldn't stop running until I changed to a port tack.

Anyone else have this issue? I think the little check valve is stuck open but I'm still working on it.

Lare
SV Rocinante

[Michael Moradzadeh]

I had had this problem too. I put in a check valve, which is really
taboo, apparently.

Later, I raised the loop higher, and made sure the vent was clear so
that it would not keep a siphon loop. Very disturbing to spend days on
port tack with the bilge pump running all the time.

Michael

[Beller Family]

Yup, we've had the same exact problem.  The cause was a stuck and corroded anti-syphon vent.  After replacing it has never happened again.  I have wired an alarm on the bilge pump so I would know when it was running.  That's what tipped me off that we had a problem.

 

Jeff

SV Journey

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[Larry Rovin]

Note that the problem is not that the vent is stuck open, but rather that it is stuck closed.

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[P. Sherwood]

Had it happen with the gray water gray. Likewise, the in-line check
valve was stuck open. Turns out the check valve in the main bilge line
was also stuck open. Both were probably original with the boat.

Another example of Experience being the toughest teacher of all because
she gives the test first and the lesson afterward.

Phil
s/v Cynosure
La Paz, finishing transmission repair

[P. Sherwood]

I meant gray water _bilge_ ...

[Michael Dobbs]

Welcome to the club.  I've found you really have to clean the checkvalves at least once a year to make sure they won't stick or take too much force to open them.  Also, I understant there is a reed valve at the top of the siphon break that can fail shut...and therefore facilitate back-flow into the boat.  I think there have been other threads on how to access the top of the siphon break to replace the valve.
 

> Subject: [Passport] Bilge Pump Vent

> From: el...@hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:13:09 -0500
> To: Passpor...@googlegroups.com

[Bill Schmidt]

I know that just about everyone has had this problem - either the shower sump (in the v berth boats) or the bilge  line or the vacuum break in the coolant water for the engine. The worst one is the valve failure in the engine coolant line which leads to water filling the keel muffler, then filling the engine! On Wind Witch, we have replaced all - either with the Forespar vented loop (bilge & shower sump) or the Vetus vacuum break (engine salt water coolant line). In all cases, the bottom line is - the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Billy Manana

[Lare]

Thanks for all the help. Anyone ever try putting an inline check valve rather than removing the defective one? They're cheap and easy to find-especially here in Jamaica.

[Jon Ash]

My 2 cents. Check valve in bilge pump overboard line is not advisable.
Jon
s/v Caribbean Soul p40

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 12, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Lare <el...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the help. Anyone ever try putting an inline check valve rather than removing the defective one? They're cheap and easy to find-especially here in Jamaica.
>

[Larry Rovin]

Absolutely right. These are prone to sticking in the closed position and now you have no bilge pump.

Sent from my iPhone

[Larry Byers]

Isn't there supposed to be a check valve in the vent tube that runs from the top of the loop?

Lare
SV Rocinante

[Michael Moradzadeh]

A valve in the vent, perhaps. But apparently it's pretty unsafe either
to have or to rely on a check valve in the water stream to keep your
boat from (a) flooding or (b) failing to dewater. Each failure mode of
a check valve in a bilge pump outlet is pretty catastrophic.

M

[louis raphael]

My experience not using a check valve, if one has a long hose run from
the bilge pump sump to the outlet,
The float switch senses no water.
The bilge pump turns off.
the water still in the hose runs back.
the float switch decides to get rid of the water.
etc
etc
etc
until the batteries die and there is no longer an operating bilge pump.
Louis Raphael

[Jim Melton]

Louis,

Yes, that is a potential problem. The better solution (than using a
check valve) is to ensure that there is enough hysteresis in the
system to prevent the constant cycling.

One way to do this is to slightly elevate the bilge switch so that it
requires there to be more water in the bilge to trigger the pump than
the exhaust hose contains. Yes, this has the unfortunate side effect
of keeping some water (an inch or two) at the bottom of the sump, but
it prevents the cycling without inserting another device that can
sink your boat if it fails in either mode (opening or closing).

Hope this helps,
Jim

At 4/12/2013 02:29 PM, louis raphael wrote:
>My experience not using a check valve, if one has a long hose run
>from the bilge pump sump to the outlet,
>The float switch senses no water.
>The bilge pump turns off.
>the water still in the hose runs back.
>the float switch decides to get rid of the water.
>etc
>etc
>etc
>until the batteries die and there is no longer an operating bilge pump.
>Louis Raphael

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[Larry Rovin]

The Water Witch electronic switch has a feature where it runs for 15 seconds after the water goes below the "off" level. This lets you mount it higher but still basically pump out the whole bilge. You are left only with the backflow from the hose.

Sent from my iPhone

[John Baudendistel]

Larry. The aqua alarm switches pumps an additional 15 seconds. I have a check valve on my rule 2800 in the bottom of the bilge. I also have a larger rule 4800 with. Float higher than the first one. This one has no Check valve but an anti siphon vent. Both are wired and have their own thru hulls separately. I also have a high water alarm which goes off if the water gets above a certain point.

Some have put in a small pump which pumps the bilge very empty which uses a check valve any a larger pump up higher. They also utilize a y which allows 2 pumps to utilize one thru hull exit. I believe Forespar makes it.
Food for thought
John

John

Sent from my iPhone

[Ian Macrae]

Okay, I have to ask, to save myself some time unpacking all of my
cabinets and stuff, where are the anti-siphon valves for the engine
exhaust and bilge pump? And what do you check for, or do you just
replace them? I haven't even thought about these things in the five
years I've owned the boat.... It sounds like there are three anti-
siphon loops - 1. bilge pump, 2. shower sump pump, and 3. engine raw
water system. Do they all come stock with the same anti-siphon device
or do they have different devices? I think I've noticed an anti-
siphon loop on the port side "wall" in the cabinet just ahead of the
sink and stove, but haven't seen the other two.

Part of vigilance is asking dumb questions. Thanks.

Ian

[ChinaDoll]

Larry,

Glad to see you're still having fun on the boat.

On China Doll we have two vented loops for the that outlet. There is one in the engine room that goes to the top of the compartment which prevents the remaining hose run from back siphoning, and as the boat is on either port or starboard tack, this loop is always in the same position as it is on the center line of the vessel. The second vented loop terminates higher in the cabinet just under the outside deck and is on the starboard side. This is the final loop that prevents siphoning, but on an excessive heal, the middle vent loop will always be higher and safeguard the boat from siphoning during a port tack when the starboard vented loop is too low and may siphon outside seawater back to the boat.

This may be a missing vented loop on the other boats as this engine room vented loop also limits how much water can back flush when the pump shuts off. Since the engine room vented loop is fairly close to the pump, it eliminates the back flush between the engine room and the vented loop in the cabinetry, which on China Doll is about a six-foot run of 1-1/2 inch hose. That run of hose cannot back flush and keeps the pump from cycling.

We are in Isla Providencia en route for Isla Mujeres today after a lovely 8-day stay in the Providencia anchorage. We should be in Mujeres on 4-24th.

-Rob.