Forestay and Backstay Chainplates

[Ian Macrae]

The PO of my P40 boat had new chainplates fabricated and installed for
the shrouds, but not for the backstay and forestay. The backstay
seems to be buried deep in FG. The forestay looks to be a little
closer to the surface. Every boat is different so no guarantees about
what is or isn't lurking on mine, but I'm curious about what was found
and what the job was like?

What have P40 owners been finding when they dig out the backstay
chainplate? Are the bolts rotten?

What about the forestay - I read somewhere that an owner had found
those bolts had pretty much rusted away....

Ian
P40 #49
S/V Freyja

[Bill Schmidt]

We have replaced all the chain plates in Wind Witch. The replacement was
because of crevice corrosion that we found when replacing/recaulking the
decks. The bolts were fine (but those were relatively new, having been
replaced when we had to rebuild the knees after they tore loose from the
hull.
Likewise we have replaced the backstay chain plate (actually had to
rebuild the entire transome area) after the transome seperated from cockpit
combing. The cause was rusting of the backing plate (made of common steel).
The bolts were fine here as well. The surprise was that the chain plate had
a T piece on it beneath the caprail that bolted downward through the back of
the cockpit combing. This was required, I think, because of the slant of the
transome. The forces tend to "lever" the cockpit combing away, bending the
chainplate away from the hull to which it is well bolted. Incidently, we
found the backing plates for the ladder completely rotted away. But we had
chucked the ladder years ago as simply unusable.
Oh, and while we are talking about rotting common steel, we should (or
should not?) bring up the steel cage housing the upper rudder bearing. It
too can rot out and collapse. Gee, let's see... the ballast rots, the chain
plates rot, the lifeline stansion rots, the rudder support structure rots
....is there a theme here?
Bill Schmidt, Wind Witch, P-40 #53

[George Louis]

I am in the process of having my backstay plate inspected and quoted. I have
a lot of decay below the transom deck. I feel I will need to address this
sooner rather than later. I just had the stainless frame work that shrouds
the quadrant replaced which involved grinding out the old one and
fabricating a brand new one out of fiberglass and glassing it into the hull.
The good part is that it will never have to be done again, the bad news was
the boatyard was 50% over my budget.

[Phil Sherwood]

I didn't have the stomach to dig out the backstay chainplate -- I had
a new one fabricated from 316 stainless to the same thickness, with
bolt holes to match the existing bolt holes, and bent (without heat)
to match the angle of the backstay relative to the angle of the
transom. I also had to cut a notch in the cap rail to accommodate the
new, exterior chain plate. After gooing everything appropriately, I
then just ran the new bolts through the same holes (and thus through
the old chainplate as well, of course). I don't remember the
backstay chainplates bolts being in particularly bad condition.

True, now the boat isn't factory-original perfect, but but that
hardly keeps me awake at night. I long ago gave up the notion of
maintaining a perfectly cherry museum piece. The solution looks fine,
is very strong, and was accomplished relatively quickly and
inexpensively. Or as they might say in the software world, "That's
not a bug, that's a feature."

As part of the same project, motivated by having a chainplate break
while still 500 miles offshore, I replaced all the other chainplates
as well, except for the forestay plate. (We inspected that one very
carefully; everything seemed to be fine with it). I was appalled at
what I found with the other chainplates -- all had at least some
crevice corrosion, and a few had very substantial damage. Analysis
showed that the original chainplates and bolts were fabricated from a
very inferior grade of steel; the bolts were a non-standard size and
obviously made on the spot in the shipyard. The chainplates obviously
had been heated and bent to form the hockey-stick shape. Some of my
old ones were fine at the bend of the hockey stick, but some were
showing damage and wear.

I cut the new chainplates to the hockey-stick shape rather than
cutting them straight and bending them. All cutting and hole drilling
was done by water jet, to avoid any possibility of heat stress to the
new steel. Fortunately I was able to find a chunk of 316SS plate of
the right thickness and just big enough to allow me to cut out all
the new plates with very little waste. Found the 316 at Alaska Metals
in Seattle and had the cutting and machining done in Ballard.

I think I've suggested before on this list -- can't remember for sure
as memory is the second thing to go when you get a bit older -- that
removing and checking and if in any doubt replacing chainplates would
be a Really Good Idea.

I'm trying to remember what the first thing to go is, but it's
slipped my mind at the moment ...

Cheers,
Phil
s/v Cynosure
Bahia de Caraquez

At 01:53 PM 2/15/2009, you wrote:
>[...]

>What have P40 owners been finding when they dig out the backstay
>chainplate? Are the bolts rotten?

[...]

[Phil Sherwood]

I might not have made it particularly clear that I put the new
backstay chainplate on the exterior of the transom. Sorry 'bout that...

Phil

At 03:38 PM 2/16/2009, Phil Sherwood wrote:

>I didn't have the stomach to dig out the backstay chainplate -- I had

>a new one fabricated from 316 stainless to the same thickness[...]

[Brian and Jen]

Phil

I am changing all of the chain plates and am contemplating how to approach the backstay. I have just notched the toerail and noted it would be very difficult, if not impossible to fit a new chainplate and sister it from the inside. Do you happen to have a photo of the exterior chainplate you attached? 

I have noted that the transom wall is very thin and do not want to approach this project in an invasive manner, if possible.

thanks

Brian

[Ernie Reuter]

We have replaced all the chainplates on Iemanja except for the backstay. My thoughts are in the same direction as Brians in that I don't want to try to extract out the old one. I'm thinking exterior as well. 

Would be very interested in any pictures that may be around regarding how this was done.

Ernie & Bette

S/V Iemanja

BTV

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[Ian Macrae]

What is the back of the boat made out of? I just looked at Tim's
picture of all the little squares of wood on the decks, so now I'm
wondering what you find when you dig into your transom on a P40. If
you dig out your old backstay chainplate, is it solid glass, or is
there wood in there?

Ian

[Binari, Steve]

It sounds like there are a couple of different transom configurations. The
transom on Albireo is solid glass, about 3/4" thick where the backstay bolts
are. Albireo is hull #57 built in 1984. The transom has two horizontal
stringers about 3" x 3" in cross section that run the width of the transom
and a 1/2" plywood section about 6" x 30" glassed in where the chainplate is
attached.

The chainplate (picture attached) has a different configuration to what some
owners are reporting. It has a short horizontal bar that bolts to a steel
bar embedded in the deck. This crazy arrangement allowed for the deck to
pull up from the hull by 5/16" where the bar was attached. This problem has
been cited by others in previous posts. A previous owner filled this gap in
with putty, which subsequently cracked. I had the hull to deck joint
glassed over in this location and installed a new backstay chainplate
(picture attached) on the outside of the hull, where it probably should have
been in the first place.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Passpor...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Passpor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:23 PM
To: Passport Owners

[Bill Schmidt]

Steve:
Wind Witch is hull # 53. We had the transom pull much further up and
forward than you describe on Albireo. The chainplate looks identical to your
old chainplate, but the backing plate on the vertical part of the transom
was not plywood, but cheap steel. The crack in the transom had allowed so
much salt water penetration that the backing plates (both) were literally
gone. The new chainplate, made of stainless, was made like the old one
except that we added a lip to the horizontal plate such that, when
remounted, it protruded out over the vertical fiberglass transom and then
down. The first thru bolt of the chain plate passes thru the lip and then
into a new steel plate on the inside of the transom. The rest of the
chainplate bolts are identically placed in the rest of the old holes. The
result is that we have restored the full caprail on the transom, captured
the fiberglass of the transom so that the hull-deck joint cannot again
separate and replaced the vanished cheap steel transom backing plate with
good stainless. Incidentally, the old boarding ladder backing plates were
similarly rotten away and absent. This was not a problem since, like you, we
trashed that boarding torture machine long ago as unusable.
Billy Manana