First Post - Building a Budget Racer

[Kevin]

Hi, my name is Kevin. I just found this site tonight and decided to
join. I have selfish motivation because I'm building a car a piece at
a time right now. The car will be a '99 Yamaha R1 powered formula car
- at least unless I take a sudden change in path. I was wondering:
Where would I find find rules on the minimum allowed cockpit sizes for
SCCA A-Modified or for two-seaters in DSR?

I expect that the rules for an A-mod car are fairly sparse and relaxed.
If I wanted to make a two-seater though, things are probably more
restricted. Looking in the SCCA general competition rules, I don't see
anything about cockpit size, just cockpit openings.

Thanks, Kevin

[Tom Clayton]

Hi Kevin,

I think you're incorrectly referring to DSRs as two-seaters. Many years
ago, conversion of single seat formula cars were allowed into C & DSR.
When this happened, the seating and cockpit opening requirements were
changed. These requirements are described in the Sports Racer Category
( http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/SportsRacer.pdf ) of the SCCA
rule books. Other than the opening dimensions, I'm quite sure there is
no requirement for interior cockpit size, other than driver comfort
(and general safety).

Regards,

Tom Clayton
Sports Racer Network
http://Sports.Racer.Net

[Kevin]

Thanks. I've been wondering. I'll probably stick to my single-seat
plan then and plow ahead.

Kevin

[stanko...@hotmail.com]

Tom,

That was one of the worst days in the history of U.S. amateur racing.
Buy a tired single seater and throw a fiberglass body on it. DSR (H
mod) was the last bastion of the designer/builder/driver. I remember
some very creative cars. Creative cars still exist but in far fewer
numbers. The motor racing world is overrun with spec car, driver
series. F1 and Nascar are rushing towards cookie cutter cars in the
name of cost. It ain't supposed to be cheap at that level. Even the 750
Motor Club in England has become diluted. The 750 racers and the
clubman cars are interesting but the club has shifted emphasis to one
make production car races for the sake of the "show" and to showcase
the drivers of the future. Where are the future designers to come from?
Maybe autocross here for a while or the english equivalents hill climbs
and sprint racing.

Enough.

Stan

[Stan]

Interesting rant, but it leaves one big question still open...what does having one seat or two have to do with the challenge of designing a good race car? Sure, it's easier to convert a former FC or Atlantic, but that's not what I'm asking about nor the point of this group. We are here to DESIGN a car that's reasonably easy and inexpensive to build and which can be competitive, and it's still in classes like C/DSR where young designers can cut their teeth.

Stan

"stanko...@hotmail.com" <stanko...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Tom,

That was one of the worst days in the history of U.S. amateur racing.
Buy a tired single seater and throw a fiberglass body on it. DSR (H
mod) was the last bastion of the designer/builder/driver. I remember
some very creative cars. Creative cars still exist but in far fewer
numbers. The motor racing world is overrun with spec car, driver
series. F1 and Nascar are rushing towards cookie cutter cars in the
name of cost. It ain't supposed to be cheap at that level. Even the 750
Motor Club in England has become diluted. The 750 racers and the
clubman cars are interesting but the club has shifted emphasis to one
make production car races for the sake of the "show" and to showcase
the drivers of the future. Where are the future designers to come from?
Maybe autocross here for a while or the english equivalents hill climbs
and sprint racing.

Enough.

Stan

---

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Daniel Heineck]

Whilst all my design sketches have been of single seaters, I'd agree
with you about the clear possibility of a two seater. My goal
dimensions wouldn't preclude it for certain.

To that end, I haven't done jack squat about this project lately, nor
been active in FSAE. Pesky classwork kept me busy so far. I did get
to a moderately confident suspension setup, but all my numbers are on
my computer, and I'm home for a couple days. My hesitence to post them
was an interest in doing some tests in making multiple upper pivots
(and possibly lower pivots, but that would significantly affect
steering geometry if used with a non-spherical bearing in the lower
a-arm) to permit anti dive/anti squat. Talking w/ the Champion Audi
team about that issue last year left me impressed with that option as a
effective tuning agent (I believe they had it set up where they would
use the same arms, as would I).

I made up a bearing load calculator, but I must have butchered
something in the calculations as I was getting absurd moments in the
spindles under a 5g lateral acceleration worst case. I'm still trying
to make a upright/spindle solution.

That's where I stand,

Daniel

[Teritius D. Fortune]

Daniel - I use SusProg3d to generate/test my suspensions before I slap them on cars.  If you feel like it, send the numbers over to me and I'll analyze them before I post the results/geometry to the group.

 

Regards,

Teritius

Daniel Heineck <hein...@onid.orst.edu> wrote:

[Daniel Heineck]

I'll send the numbers to you on Wednesday, when I'm back at the
computer with those dimensions. I've been building models in
Solidworks and manipulating through them as such. I'd also love a bit
of help optimizing rack location.

Daniel

[Teritius D. Fortune]

Daniel,

Have you had a chance to get those numbers together? I can plug them in the
day I get them.

Thanks,
Teritius

Daniel

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006

[Daniel Heineck]

Tertius,

I'm back at school, but have been busy. I'll grab them and send them
your direction tonight.

Cheers,
Daniel

[Daniel Heineck]

I just put the front suspension up,as I still need to do a bit more
digging to figure out the constraints wrt the differential/rear end.
Goal will likely be a little less camber gain, less static camber, and
relatively equal roll center to the front. I know that is slightly
unconventional at this level (where it seems more popular to have the
rear static roll center .5-.75" higher than the front) but I believe
the pitch of the car will be less significant, and the loss in roll
stiffness can be realized in other ways. Steering geometry goals are
at the bottom of the spreadsheet. Both a 20x8" (GY) and a 22x7.5
(Avon) were analyzed.

The file is:
http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~heineckd/Open%20Source%20DSR%20Project/Front%20Camber.xls

As always, please ask questions.

Daniel

[Teritius D. Fortune]

Daniel - I've received the file and have had a chance to review it. While I
understand your intent and the goals you were trying to accomplish, there's
not enough information in the spreadsheet for me to input them into SusProg
3D.

Could you send me your datum points and the distance for these inputs along
the Z-axis (front to rear of the car). Also, I'm only finding one location
for the chassis side mounts. I'll need a second position for each A-arm on
the chassis side in X, Y, Z coordinates before I can proceed.

As soon as I get this information, I'll proceed forthwith.

Kind regards,
Teritius

-----Original Message-----
From: Open-Source-Sport...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Open-Source-Sport...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf
Of Daniel Heineck
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 9:14 PM
To: Open Source Sports Racer Initiative
Subject: Re: First Post - Building a Budget Racer

Daniel

--

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 3/31/2006