RE: [NIDG] Digest for NIDG@googlegroups.com - 10 Messages in 2 Topics
Cagan-Teuber, Janice (MCD)
This is to Heidi, regarding the AZ issue of businesses in rural areas refusing to provide interpreters. You said that there are several lawsuits to attempt to correct this. Any of those lawsuits through the state’s Attorney General’s Office? Or the Office of Civil Rights?
Try those.
Janice
Janice L. Cagan-Teuber, M.Ed., Certified ASL/English Interpreter
MCDHH Interpreter Screening & Evaluation Coordinator
600 Washington Street, 3rd Floor
Boston, MA 02111-1704
Phone: 617-740-1600
Fax: 617-740-1880
VP: 617-326-7546
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Think before you print!
From:
NI...@googlegroups.com [mailto:NI...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:17 AM
To: Digest Recipients
Subject: [NIDG] Digest for NI...@googlegroups.com - 10 Messages in 2
Topics
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/NIDG/topics
§ Suggestions?? [6 Updates]
§ Gathering time/space at StreetLeverage Live! in Atlanta [4 Updates]
Heidi Christensen
<hodi...@gmail.com> Apr 21 12:05PM -0700
Dear esteemed colleagues,
In light of recent conversations circulating this discussion group, I would
like to hear your suggestions on a business my sister and I started
recently. We are focusing on finding a way to provide interpreting services
in rural area where those services are limited. The problem we are facing
in our area is that businesses either won’t request interpreters, or
interpreters from nearby cities don’t want to drive that far and then no
one is “available” for that assignment so no interpreter shows up, or the
Deaf people have experienced both of these instances and don’t even bother
requesting interpreters any more or can’t find a remedy for their situation
so they “deal” with paper and pencil. However, when we happen to see the
Deaf from this area or DO interpret for them these issues come up in
conversation and it’s a problem they would like to see resolved but they
don’t know how to go about it. SO, we started a business hoping to relieve
and improve this particular type of situation for Deaf people in rural
areas (not just our own). Have any of you encountered this issue? If so,
what effective approaches did you use to solve this matter? The problem we
see is you can only tout “ADA” so much because the businesses just don’t
care to follow this law, and no one has done anything to make the
businesses accountable so I’m sure they are thinking “why do anything?”.
When I say this is a problem, I’m talking about businesses who refuse to
get interpreter services and as a result serious misunderstandings in
regards to health (which in some cases was a life and death situation)
occur. You want to talk about discrimination and oppression? Rural areas
(at least those areas around us) are experts at this. Right now we are
brainstorming how to remedy this issue and ask for your suggestions?
Thank you!
Heidi C.
Maggie Esquiroz
<dalp...@gmail.com> Apr 21 01:01PM -0700
Hi Heidi!
In addition to interpreting, I am also a lawyer (please don't hold that
against me LOL). Anyway, I would see if one of the Deaf people who had
experienced the refusal to provide access (especially for a health
situation!), try to find an attorney who might be willing to write a letter
regarding ADA issues, etc. A nearby (large city) Deaf agency (we have GLAD
here in L.A.) might have referral attorneys, or even try contacting someone
through NAD. I am not sure what state you are in, but whatever state
protections (or lack thereof) exist, the ADA is the law of the land and
attorneys are subject to the requirement to provide access too! An
attorney that regularly handles these types of situations would probably do
a sliding scale fee arrangement or would take a matter on a contingency
fee. At least I am hoping my colleagues would rise to the occasion.
--
*Maggie Esquiroz*
hodi...@gmail.com Apr 21
01:36PM -0700
Hello!
Thank you Maggie, there are several law suits underway at the moment, but that
doesn't seem to phase the general apathy. I mean it almost seems like a coalition
of rebel rousers has taken the place of the businesses. Some of this is also
happening in the cities not just rurally, but it seems more difficult to reach
the rural areas. Often the Deaf people we have talked with don't want to be
involved in anything legal (and with my limited legal knowledge I'm not sure
what all the options are in that arena) so things are kind of at a stand still.
Certainly not ok when communication is being cut off at the knees.
We are in Az and I will definitely look into what resources we have legally,
but I'm also wondering if there are any ideas for how to spread awareness (as
I'm sure most businesses may just think it's not a big deal instead of
knowingly disobeying the law), or another route we can take?
Right now we are planning on informing rural businesses that there ARE services
in their area (so they don't have to wait 1-2 hours for an interpreter to show
up since there are several certified interpreters who live in these areas and
are not being contacted), but I just feel like there's so much more that can be
done...just not sure what we can do.
Other thoughts?
Heidi C.
Terri Hayes
<asl...@gmail.com> Apr 21 06:11PM -0400
Ha... when it was me - I lived full time in an RV and went to the
places that needed interpreters and stayed only so long as I was
needed... or that was the goal anyway... it doesn't always work out as
well in real life as it does in our hopes... but carrying your house
around with you makes it really easy to get to somewhere else tomorrow
and then again the next day.
here's a brainstorm idea.. wholly and completely unreasonable... but
worth a (F finger throw out on the table)... (I know that has English
somewhere in my head - but for now - that'll do)
If you could find a central point to the areas you are trying to serve
and figure out a way to "place" an interpreter (or team would be
better) there (within say an hour or 2 hour radius to the specific
areas of need)... (implies multiple places out in the rurals...)
If you had a good qualified interpreter or interpreter/educator (Deaf
or hearing) that was willing to be the "guiding terp" - then you
could
advertise to the recently graduating class of interpreters
(nationwide) that they can, for a pre established and agreed upon time
- get some good supported experience working if they want to come out
and spend of time --- getting some good supported experience working
(smile) in this or that rural area with a "guiding terp"...
when not working - they'd be doing skill development (both English
and ASL - and local language variants) as well as regular socializing
with the local Deaf community - which would mean you'd have to have
some plans set up to make this an educational venture and have some
plan to involve the Deaf in Edutainment opportunities.
If you offered CEUs (not too hard to create a solid learning plan
around this idea) you could probably get interpreter to come out for a
week or two or a month - for some intensive work (them on their skills
as well as in real job situations) but the result would be a "local"
viable resource for real working jobs...
Because you're offering CEUs and because you'd be targeting terps that
want experience - you would be generous to offer to pay them some
percentage of the money earned (in their name) on the real jobs - but
the interpreters would have to be able to financially support
themselves while there (food - wise)...
board would come with the position (you'd have to figure out where and
how - but an RV in a centralized resort (resort is different from
"trailer park... please keep it classy - and safe! smile)
is usually pretty cheap - +/- $250/mo on a monthly basis (often
utilities included) especially if you're commiting to pay over time...
which could be considered affordable even if the need for an
interpreter is only really needed - when you really need it and
otherwise things are pretty quiet - If you have paying customers -
you should be able to afford that - supplemented as a tax writeoff if
nothing else.
The hard parts would be finding the interpreter (or Deaf
person/interpreter) who is 1) able to provide educational skills
deveopment support to the interpreters coming for CEUs and experience
2) who are willing to make that RV their primary residence in order to
keep the system going -
although - thinking more about it - that "educator" "lead
person"
would not have to always be the same person - and you could make THAT
postion an "educational/experiencial opportunity as well... (although
that lead person would have to be experienced with the local area -
know how to get places and know the Deaf people well enough to provide
the introductions with the interpreters coming for work experience.
(and be a good enough interpreter that they can model to the recent
grads coming for experienced.)
This is something I would have done.. (and might still think about
doing - in fact...) its been rolling around upstairs for a while
there's also the "how much is it going to cost" and "where are
we
gonna get the money"...
which will take some list-storming... and some planning
but I am thinking that if you got something like this off the ground
as a replicable pilot (hmmm grant money??) - it would not only work -
but may well earn you back some business cashflow...
just thinking
Terri Hayes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Heidi Christensen" <hodi...@gmail.com>
To: NI...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Subject: [NIDG] Suggestions??
Terri Hayes
<asl...@gmail.com> Apr 21 06:19PM -0400
Hi Maggie - I think that the problem with the rural terp situation is
only partly that the businesses are not willing to provide
interpreters - they may well be Totally willing... but I suspect the
problem is more that there are no interpreters to provide.
Someone can certainly go through the effort to find a signing or ADA
compliant attorney (although very very few in my experience can/will
afford to work with what "regular" Deaf folk can afford to pay)... oh
how many times I've made that suggestion ... I dont even go there any
more.. there is little to zero help for average Deaf folk coming from
the legal-wise system...
but even if it all works out and you sue and you win and the buiness
gets slapped with a "Bad Business YOU!.. Get an Interpreter for these
Deaf people!"
If there is no interpreter
there is no interpreter.
and that, in my experience - is the simple truth out in the rural
parts of our United States.
I would wonder then - what is the legal recourse when someone is
ordered to provide a service that does not exist?
respectfully
Terri Hayes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maggie Esquiroz" <dalp...@gmail.com>
To: NI...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [NIDG] Suggestions??
hodi...@gmail.com Apr 21
06:54PM -0700
Yes Terri, most definitely. Our area tends more to the legal part of just
refusing to provide interpreters even when there are certified interpreters who
live nearby...which is why we are more going for the approach of supplying
awareness for now and looking at other options for this area.
According to the ADA the businesses are required to provide "reasonable
accommodations" so I'm assuming that would mean VRI or, in some cases,
pencil and paper or something to that effect if there just aren't interpreters
who are nearby...but again, I'm just assuming.
There are many rural areas which really just do not have access to
interpreters. We have looked at grant money (and have contacts that would be
willing to help us write a grant proposal) so that is definitely an option. I
like your idea of bringing the terps to the place and providing incentives to
be there. That might be doable in some of the more rural parts of the
nation...food for thought. Thank you!
I wonder then what would entice an interpreter to take up a position in the
middle of no where? Certainly they couldn't be someone with a family. I'm a
mother of a 2 year old with another one due in June and personally I would
never consider it, but maybe others would with the right motivation...
Thoughts?
Heidi C.
"Chumley, Andi"
<achu...@med.umich.edu> Apr 21 05:21PM
I would love to participate!
On Apr 20, 2013, at 10:54 AM, "Stephanie Feyne"
<stef...@gmail.com<mailto:stef...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Brandon Arthur made us an offer.
He said if those of us who are attending StreetLeverage Live! in Atlanta (April
26-28) wish to get together to discuss issues he will make event space
available during the lunch hours on Saturday and Sunday.
If that is what people want let us please confirm with each other first,
then we can confirm with Brandon at
<goog_424107957>
bra...@streetleverage.com<mailto:bra...@streetleverage.com>
so he can make plans for it.
Here is the website for info and registration.
http://www.streetleverage.com/live/
Stephanie
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Dan Parvaz <dpa...@gmail.com<mailto:dpa...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
Who-all is coming to StreetLeverage Live? Surely we can carve out a little time
to have this discussion, uh, live.
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Austin Kocher
<acko...@gmail.com<mailto:acko...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm trying to think about how to respect the volume of your response. Your
enthusiasm leaves me in a rather submissive state - something like the feeling
after the end of a fireworks finale. I'm not sure I have much to say. Maybe I'm
just not well-equipped to decide who counts as Deaf and who doesn't.
Sincerely,
Austin
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Terri Hayes
<asl...@gmail.com<mailto:asl...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi. - put an addendum to the subject line to give this a different
focus than the simultaneously occuring considerations of the MAL
frustations.
I'm back.
I just took a nice drive - about 3 hours worth - to try to figure out
how to clarify some of the things I wanted to say.. It all gets all
confusing - because there are so many confounding factors to
consider...
but - because I do so enjoy a good discussion - I'm gonna have a go
please argue - nothing like a good argument (that being friendly but
firm disagreement to which neither side will (or need to) yield - the
banter helps clarify just exactly what one really thinks.
and so - fair warning - this might meader - because I'm hoping to
point out some of the many confounding factors that, it seems to me,
you are (at least in part) conveniently overlooking. (smile)
>>>Since we are having honest discussion, i have to share something
that has become increasingly problematic. It concerns the imaginary differences
between Deaf and hearing,
please note - that above is what I'm thinking about
>>and the fellow graduate students and professors who I'm working with
who are Deaf, hearing and otherwise are getting exhausted with this, too. I
think even though it's an important strategy at times to point out meaningful
differences, we have come to view virtually everything within the dualist
framework of deaf and hearing, and ended up with an unnecessarily simplistic
analytic framework.
and this second - is just a refresher so you have a reference to what
I'm in whole - responding to.
So here is goes:
There are *no* imaginary differences between Deaf and hearing...
excepting that - as I said before, the more a Deaf person(s) become
fluent in English, the more they surround themselves with hearing, the
more they become comfortable (shall we say fluent) in functioning in
the hearing world - the less they are (functionally.. not technically)
Deaf... and the more that in *that* population of Deaf there are
indeed no "real" differences between Deaf and hearing. So in this,
you
are right - you and your peers, Deaf or hearing - are made
fundamentally of the same stuff - and you even share a culture
(academia) which superimposes most if not all of the respective
"hearing" (is there a "hearing" culture beyond ignorance
and
assumption of priviledge?) and Deaf cultures (that being that there is
a culture that exists in the linguistically/socially/Hearing-none Deaf
- and a culture of a different quality perhaps in the
linguistically/socially Hearing-none (or some) - English bilingual
(marginal at times - but then - where is the tipping point?)
D/deaf)...
The problem is that there are many different little bits of cultural
potential standing in each of the fractured bits of what is commonly
referred to as one giant Deaf community.
and in SOME of those bits of Deaf... there is a culture (and a
paradigm and a social context, and a physical brain different
processing) completely separate and different from anything the
hearing world can imagine. It is fact - that Some Deaf people - are
not like hearing people... They fake it well - but they are not the
same... and when we assume they are - they are hurt by that... (as are
we). It is oppressive - we are expecting them to respond to situations
in the same way that we (Deaf or hearing we) do - and they dont. And
they are punished for it - with labels, with lock-ups... with
restraint or disregard.
and rather like Bill Moody recently held up and pointed at...
those fish - are not likely to be investigating the presence of water.
Not because they are incapable of such investigation - but because..
quite simply - none of them have ever had any need to think of it. In
fact, they have other things far more pressing to think about... like
the ever present push and shove to learn to make sound with their
mouth and to learn to put "the" and "a" in the right place
in a
sentence and to be able to somehow figure out how to read and write
English (whatever that is) as a coloquial communicative technique...
(based entirely in what hearing people think their spoken language
means - and without regard for the fact that the Deaf person has never
Heard it, has little if any "sense" of it, and is more often than not
bombarded by a deluge of vocabulary that would challenge many fully
functional hearing people (if the common vocabulary comprehension of
the general population can be a true measure of what hearing people
are capable of understanding - our current set of "educated adults"
are very much lacking in a robust and prolific set of vocabulary.)
These Deaf people MUST figure out how to survive these pressures -
because they do afterall live in our great United States - and they
must somehow figure out how to get money (job - in a hearing world -
with hearing people) and a place to live... survival.. with as little
interaction with hearing (and potentially dangerous legal or social
worker) interactions as possible... because interactions with those
people - are dangerous... misunderstandings occur - which invariably
end up in jail, hospitalizations, or well meaning hearing world
interventions.
So yes - the differences between Deaf and hearing - when collecting
professional and educated colleagues into one room - whether the ears
function one like the other or not - is moot. There is no appreciable
difference between Deaf and hearing there..
but there are Deaf out there... who are significantly different...
It would make a good book eh? - Hunting the D-Deaf person in the
context of contemporary society. (but then - like what's happening to
the definition of Deaf-heart - the capital D has been usurped from the
Deaf (who *are* different) and pasted proudly on the left chest over
the heart of the professional Deaf who believe they still know ASL....
and that is the mark of D
and yet - the language I see these professional captial D-Deaf people
use - is far and away - NOT ASL... its a signed langauge that much
more resembles English - in structure as well as vocabulary -
and yet its called ASL and they're called D-Deaf... and the people who
mark the real differences - are forgotten. (Yo-CODA people! - that
would in many cases be your parents - smile - you know - the ones who
dont understand the freaking sign language interpreters and go to the
doctor and come back more confused than they were when they left...
the ones of the Deaf community who were the reason you became
interpreters in the first place... cuz you couldn't stand to know that
so many Deaf - STILL dont understand...)
There is an entire population of Deaf people out there - who use a
different language than English... its different even than the "ASL"
thats being taught in programs all over the country - by Deaf teachers
- to hearing "baby" signers- interpreters to be... and for the most
part - few if anyone is even looking at that... or that particular
population.
That population is as invisible as it ever has been... (except to
those of us who can see it... and in most cases - thats CODA, and
Deaf-made interpreters... and should I be so bold - those with
Deaf-heart - few and far between)
ok - with that being said...
I agree - that the rhetoric from
>Deaf, hearing, and interpreter communities [who say] the same argument:
being Deaf is totally different, we almost can't even define it...
is baloney.
The differences *can* be defined -
and to the point you propose - I do believe that
>the formation of Deaf identities is not beyond the scope of normal
understanding.
but I assert that - the description of that identity formation is
firmly seated in the expectations of hearing identity formation. Deaf
(being human) surely go through all the same phases of development and
have specific or generalized expressions of their experience - but
pretty much anything you come up with as a descriptor is going to be
based on a comparision (same or different) of that and hearing.
and if you come up with same - "see! Deaf are same!" and if you come
up with Different...
how different? is that an individual aberation? a psychological issue
originating from the fact of Deafness? or the result of a language
impairment? or ?... (but interestingly - I dont think I've ever heard
it be said that the behavioral or developmental differences are just
because - that person is not fuctioning as a hearing person expects to
function.)
However you come up with it.. any significant differences in identity
formation or any comparison between Deaf and hearing are going to be
"medicalized" - because our social sciences do not yet see ASL (or
any
other linguistically variant group actually) as being sufficient to
sustain a whole and healthy human being.
>>So the point isn't to eliminate the term deaf-heart but to put it into
dialogue with other concepts, to bring people into dialogue rather than to
isolate and marginalized.
I think you'd be better served to re-direct the social sciences away
from attempting to use vocabulary that originates in ASL as terms for
discussion - and try to figure out a way to make clear the significant
differences between the normalizing influences of being bilingual and
the natural segreationalization and marginalization of the Deaf who
are not able to acquire more than rudimentary bilingual ability.
Bring back to the table - an understanding that there are Deaf people
who cannot hear - and the fact that this often serves as the basis for
huge phenomenological and social differences between their experience
and that of the majority of the population (theirs compared with both
Deaf and hearing).
Bring some attention to the fact that there are Deaf out there - who
are not just "quiet hearing-like people"- but who are whole - and yet
they do not function (ah - how... you want to know *how* they fuction
differently...)... in the same way as their deaf (or hearing)
counterparts.
hmmm -
ok back to thinking
but if I figure it out - I get to publish it! (wink!)
Terri Hayes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Kocher" <acko...@gmail.com<mailto:acko...@gmail.com>>
To: NI...@googlegroups.com<mailto:NI...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [NIDG] Re: for whatever it's worth
> To post to this group, send email to NI...@googlegroups.com<mailto:NI...@googlegroups.com>.
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Brace Aaron
<aaronb...@gmail.com> Apr 21 10:45AM -0700
Good questions, Angela. A cursory review of the relevant sections of RID's
bylaws only lists the following qualifications for any MAL seat:
Article 4, "Directors": section 4, "Qualifications":
The member-at-large must have been a certified and/or associate member in good
standing for at least four consecutive years immediately prior to candidacy.
Article 4, "Directors": section 6, "Nominations and
Elections":
Officers: (president, vice-president, secretary, treasurer, member-at-large and
deaf member-at-large) Candidates must receive nominating signatures of at least
twenty-five voting members in good standing representative of all regions.
This *does* leave an awful lot of leeway for people to be unhappy about how
things work. I don't think many of us are confident in how such things will be
handled when there's any chance for "leeway".
How would people feel about a requirement that candidates for designated MAL
seats have a certain number of years as members of the relevant member section?
And/or that the slate consist of X number of candidates put forth by the
relevant member section? Of course, I can see potentially overwhelming
challenges in these ideas, too, but I thought of them as ways to address the
potential identity issues Angela raised by relying on existing association
structure. At least the remaining controversies *might* be contained within the
groups best qualified to resolve them.
But, of course, this would have to be stipulated in the bylaws, which would
require a referendum and 66% voting in favor... I'm in no rush to go that route
until we've improved the structure and transparency of the process. When/if the
IDP MAL seat is brought before the membership again, perhaps these ideas or
others addressing the same issues could be part of the motion, bringing a bit
more clarity that could garner more support. Or less. We won't know til it
happens.
Thanks for raising the questions.
Cheers,
Aaron
On Apr 20, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Angela Myers wrote:
Betty Colonomos
<visi...@gmail.com> Apr 21 12:46PM -0700
Count me in!
Betty
On Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:54:17 AM UTC-4, Stephanie Feyne wrote:
Betty Colonomos
<visi...@gmail.com> Apr 21 01:07PM -0700
Hi Aaron, Angela and all,
I believe we can minimize or eliminate these pitfalls and challenges you
raise Angela by stipulating that the IDPMAL slate be proposed and/or
approved by by IDP members. Doesn't the slate for DMAL come from the Deaf
Caucus and or Deaf Advisory Group? Please correct me if I am in error.
While we are talking about this, I believe we need a different system for
elections. I have some ideas, but I will share them with others in Atlanta
or in other posts. My issue is that while we are questioning the
appropriateness of candidates for these MAL positions, why can't we talk
about having leadership experience as a pre-requisite for Board
nominations. Being a certified member or associate member in good
standing (meaning paying dues on time and getting CEUs for the CMP) for at
least 4 consecutive years and having 25 people (in an organization of
15,000 is hardly a screening mechanism for the kinds of people we want on
the Board....people with vision, leaders, trailblazers, people with
integrity.
While we are changing the ByLaws I suggest that we seriously re-think what
worked 30+ years ago and where we are now.
Any thoughts on this?
Betty Colonomos
On Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:45:01 PM UTC-4, Aaron Brace wrote:
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