“a religious experience”

[iam deheretic]

What is with this religious experience thing? Personally I have been through these Psychotic Experience things on more than one occasion, and yes I chose to call them spiritual experiences.
What I don't understand is why do they get the idea they are to change the world.. Everyone I have ever talked to that has been down these strange rabbit holes all seem to come out the same. They are very personal experiences, though they can be shared, but everyone I know that has experienced these episodes it is a personal experience that is between the person and a being greater than they are.
Though sometimes there are insights into matters and it seems that you are some times you may be used as a conduit to help people see things.. it is not an everyday thing or on demand, it is just there. I like the crazy ideas, they can be interesting.
I don't know what I am saying but thanks for listening and not condemning.
Allan

--
(
 )
I_D Allan

[Lonlaz]

Hmm, the expriences I have have changed me profoundly. I don't mind
sharing stories, but it's kinda like dreams, they are only interesting
to the person who had 'em.

I can't say anything about your expiriences, but It seems that mine
are a case of my subconcious figuring things out. The weight of the
expirience seems to coincide with how much my rational mind does not
want to accept the results.

[e_space]

who says we aint condemning? :-^) ... actually, although i have had
some of the type of experiences u are talking about, i have not tried
to use them to help anyone else and it certainly has not made me
clairvoyant or able to swing miracles ... im also not at all
interested in doing these things, even if i could ... there, smoke
that! ;-^)

[e_space]

why not accept the experience?

> > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[iam deheretic]

You are right they change a person profoundly and they are of interest mainly to me.
and you are right sometimes they are like dreams that your mind is trying to figure out, it really gets strange when I know nothing about .
Allan

My adult ones started when I decided to figure out what i believed. I looked , knocked and searched and found only circumstantial evidence and that never convicts anyone.  At that point I decided "to put my life back together and as far as I was concerned If there is a God he could go to hell and stay there."
I was on the cold San Fransisco beach wind was blowing. The night sky opened up and I could see the entirety of the Universe at the same time. It felt like a bic lighter went off inside me and I became warm inside and out. and a beautiful voice showed up and asked "I created that joint (hell) in the first place, please explain to me how you intend to put me there?"  there was silence, i decided I couldn't  God just laughed.

I can argue with God, I can fight with him, going round and round, but there is one thing I can not do is deny his existance, because I met him.. Life went in a totally different direction

[Molly Brogan]

Aldous Huxley would have called it opening the doors of perception,
some would call it a spiritual experience, some a religious
experience...but I think I know what your are talking about. I think
we are all inherently capable of them, although, if we have closed our
minds to all modes of thinking but rationality, we might not be open
to them or willing to assign meaning to them when we have them. I
like the Ken Wilber model of our development in states and stages,
each new state and stage including the last.

Being open to these experiences is, I think, key, although they can
hit us unexpectedly. In the sixties, we called them mind expanding,
and drugs to induce these states of mind were readily available. But
not everyone was ready to expand their minds and often using these
drugs led to a psychotic break in a mind not well integrated. What
Timothy Leary found out was that while the drugs can lead the way,
they are not, themselves the experience. The experience is ours, our
path leads us there and (here is the good news) the signposts for the
path are given us to lead the way, if we have the wisdom to recognize
them.

At first, they may seem dream like, especially if we do not lucid
dream or dream creatively. Eventually, if we consistently lucid dream
and learn creative dreaming, our dream state becomes an adventure in
conscious living (while asleep.) The same is true with the satori
states. At first they come and go like a flash, but eventually, we
begin to live in a state that integrates the "spiritual" or
"religious" and the doors of perception open wide to us without our
needing to knock. These temporary states can become a state of being
and perception is one good key.

[e_space]

my experiences did not happen during sleep, but just prior to sleep,
while lying in bed with eyes closed. this is true of most of the
incidents, from disorientation up to the OBE's.

[Molly Brogan]

right before and after sleep are very good times to contemplate, pray,
envision, meditate...whatever floats your boat.

[Slip Disc]

I know some olives will float my boat, Molly, have any for me? The
experiences are, as you say, ours but without recognition and
acceptance they really don't set the path. As heretic's post
suggests, there are those who recognize and accept but misconceive the
experience as some spiritual directive. There is some sense after
such experiences where one feels separate from the whole of humanity,
transcending the mundane and uniquely connected with the Divine. I
wouldn't say the experiences I had in the 60's, however induced, were
anywhere near what transpired within the coma, which is an experience
I still haven't revealed to many but at the same time I don't feel any
need to. I think the Ken Wilber reference is pertinent but I still
have difficulty with his colors and find overall he's a bit clear
cut. Nevertheless the reading is worthwhile and contemplative. I may
have to make some holy water tonight.

[iam deheretic]

Well oddly all my experiences have occurred while I was wide awake, non of them drug induced.

Other than "God leaving me convinced he is real I don't see a lot of spiritual directive.  The was no go out and save the world or sinner routine involved. I do enjoy "God" in my life my creator keeps it interesting and he never leaves or goes away.

There is no doubt in my mind that everyone has the same connection. They just don't or chose not to use it. When these experiences do occur people respond to them in many different ways. What transpired with in a coma. though you have not shared it (I do not blame you either as what I experienced is intensely personal.) really does not surprise me, because in a coma there should not be rational thinking interfering.
Allan

[Justintruth]

In a sense all experience is personal. My seeing something is not your
seeing something. But what we see contains our bodies and through
means of them we communicate and we communicate about what we see - at
least to some extent. In the same way we experience the meaning of
things and we can communicate about that meaning. It is factually true
that there is a lot of commonality in what we experience in both fact
and essence although it is not complete.

So the situation with respect to whether it is a personal experience
is not different for religious and non-religious experience in that
sense. If you read the records of those who have had religious
experience there is remarkable but not complete agreement about what
was experienced as is true of all other experience. (In another sense
religious experience is "deeply personal" meaning it affects ones
identity and bears on ones desires in ways that some not religious
experience does not. It is more like love than science and in fact
there is a relationship between it and the experience of love that is
not there in scientific observation)

Now you have characterized it as "psychotic". That is not a neutral
word. It is also a very modern word as you did not just use the word
"crazy". It is more like the kind of word that someone who has not
experienced it has for those who have, although you say you have had
such experience. In fact religious experience is usually characterized
as understanding for the first time. It is possible that what you
experienced was not religious experience but genuine psychosis. It is
sometimes not so easy to distinguish as many psychotic episodes have
religious content. It is also true that some psychiatrists sometimes
cannot distinguish and I know of one individual who was medicated
(Haldol) for trying to communicate the content of his religious
experience. Also you have said "everyone who goes down these strange
rabbit holes comes out the same". That again is not a common
observation. Most report profound change in their interpretation of
life. I know of one individual who changed from a economics major to
an art major because of it and his future life was changed. My life
certainly has changed because of it.

Anyway however we might interpret these experiences one thing seems to
be sure. They are reported independently in every culture in every
generation. (Actually I can't say every one because I have not
examined them all). The real situation is that many cultures do not
have science and cannot distinguish interpretation of their religious
experience from scientific observation. For them, as it was in western
culture long ago and in fundamentalism today, science and religion are
mixed together and discussions of causal origin and the meaning of
being get confused with temporal cosmology and evolution. This mistake
is an equivocation of material causality which is an essential reality
(a scientific fact if you'd like) with causation ex nihilo which
cannot be scientific and is not essential. The problem is compounded
by the fact that brain function is materially necessary for
consciousness scientifically and compounded also by objectivity which
can be interpreted existentially instead of as an essential contingent
fact. So it gets really complicated intellectually to sort it all
out.

To me the two big mistakes are first to interpret religion as a kind
of science and the second mistake, that usually precedes the first is
to believe that you can choose what to believe in by making a personal
decision and sticking to it. The latter is the worse problem.

That fact that in a sense you can do this implies that you can lie to
yourself and that is the biggest problem. You can just get off the
track of trying to understand and decide that it is "good" to believe
xyz and choose to believe it abandoning any further intellectual
pursuit or questioning. You then get to join a church and have all
kinds of experiences you wouldn't have if you kept trying to
understand and refused to say you believed. Many churches are set up
precisely to pressure one or influence one to "confess one's faith" or
"accept the Lord Jesus as one's savior" while all the while these are
code words for getting you to abandon your questioning and get on
board the organization. Check your wallet. It is a good way to
distinguish the genuinely religious from those that are not. The
genuinely religious will not be accumulating lots of money as they
will use it on the needs of others.

The difficulty of the genuine pursuit of truth aids in making the
decision to abandon it as this stuff is not easy to understand without
a lot of careful, one might even say painful, study so the choice is
often to believe xyz or to say "I just don't understand". Also being
one of the ones who "knows" has social consequences and whole churches
are set up to reward those that run them. It is also an ego thing to
know. For them to admit that they have no genuine religious experience
is to admit that they are a fraud. To do that to others would be
relatively easy. To do it to themselves is what is unfortunately hard.
Therefore the most important thing is not to let go of your critical
ability too early and just believe what someone says. The material is
hard but in the end it is understandable somewhat at least. If it is
not it is not real. At least progress can be made. Abandoning the
pursuit prematurely is not profitable.

Good luck to you.

[e_space]

works for me ... although the incidents that happened came to me, it
was not like i was trying to make anything happen, although i had put
out the welcome mat for this sort of activity

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[e_space]

one may consider someone elses evaluation of their experience as
misconceived, after all, one can say anything they want, but it would
be interesting to know how one can debunk someones conclusion (stating
its not spiritual) without having experiened it themselves? seems a
bit far reaching to me ... for example, how do you know their
experience was not similar to your experience while in a coma? and
under the same priciples that you state this, why would anybody accept
that your experience while in the coma was anything different that
what others have experienced ... i find it hard to contemplate how
someone can judge anothers experience without having been there, and
would be interested in hearing how u came to this conclusion ...

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[pol.science kid]

I am not sure if it counts but i had one of these...during my
exams....of course i wasnt studying but contemplating on stuff...so
called 'spiritual'. for me it was just wondering about this and
that...all i remember is having goosebumps all over after it...it was
strange but nice.. and liberating really...like a flicker of light ..
that comes and goes... only for a second....

[Lonlaz]

I think there's a problem with trying to deduce the sprituality of
something, it's not something that can be decided objectively, thus it
cannot be judged by another. I personally believe that all my
expriences can be described in the most clinical psychological terms,
but that does not change what they mean to me, and I'm not inclined to
deny the mundane components of them.

My expriences always seem to happen when I'm walking or driving, once
while lucid dreaming.

[e_space]

yikes ... while driving? sounds a bit scarey! id ditch that habit ;-^)

[e_space]

now imagine this ... put all of those little seconds of bliss/light
together, one after another ... voila ... heaven man!!!

[Molly Brogan]

I love this post of yours, Justin, as it is quite a reflection on the
pitfalls we all make in trying to understand these experiences.
Looking for cause and effect, trying to fit our experiences into a
round or square hole of religion etc...

And I don't think that any of these steps are wrong in themselves. We
make them as a way of working out for ourselves, what the experiences
mean to us and how to integrate them into our lives. We learn by
experiencing, and sometimes forget to include the spirit of the
experience into the learning, turning to the fig tree instead of
joining the fig tree with the tree of life so to speak.

My experience is this, the more we can integrate these moments into
our being, into who we are each moment, the more we will have them.
The easiest way, for me, to get them back when I am entrenched in the
material world, is to remember the feeling. And I agree with Justin
when he says that the closest thing we commonly know is the feeling of
love, or rapture, or as Joseph Campbell would tell us "follow your
bliss."

If you can incorporate these states while you are walking or driving,
you are well on the way to integration.

[pol.science kid]

What about the goosebumps dude..... I cant stand em for a long
tym.....

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Lonlaz]

Unfortunately, I can't afford a chauffer. :(

> > while lucid dreaming.- Hide quoted text -

[Slip Disc]

You have drawn conclusions. I clearly indicated "some" with the
phrase ".............there are those who.........." , that does not
mean everyone, further it should be noted that I'm not debunking any
experience but pointing out "some" misconceptions as being a
"directive", I'm not negating the spiritual but the directive (for
"some"). "There are those" (some) who survive catastrophic accidents
that are fatal to others who claim "God wanted me to live for a reason
and has purpose for me". Then they go about town with that
conception. It doesn't mean it is true nor does it mean it is false
but it could be either. To assume that "All" experiences are real/
spiritual is false, some could be real and some might not.

[e_space]

ill buy that clarification, but analyzing somebody elses experience is
always dicey at best. i realize that statements by religious fundies
such as 'god wanted me to live...' etc is worthy of discredit,
although im not sure the incident would have been originally described
as a religious experience ...

[iam deheretic]

You are right justin "Psychotic" is not a neutral word nor is it meant to be neutral  and it is not a psychosis that is a big jump in assumption. My nut doctor friends assure me that emotional and mental well being are very sound..and we are talking friendships that go back over 30 years.

The word psychotic helps to keep me from taking myself to seriously having been through several of these experiences, there is a definate need to keep them in perspective.
Allan

[iam deheretic]

Hay Slip.  the incident I referred to occurred in June of 1975. and I have had a lot of time to think about it,, now I know this is really going to sound crazy, but the conclusion I keep coming back to is a Father showing off for his kids,, especially when they are paying attention.
the higher purpose thing really does not make sense especially in my case..  I just think God is cool!
Allan

[Molly Brogan]

the experience seems to entrall you, and terrify you at the same
time. Why else denounce it as psychotic and laugh it off as
occasional abnormality?

[gruff]

"... On May 26, 2:48 pm, Molly Brogan <mollybro...@gmail.com>
wrote: ..."

> Aldous Huxley would have called it opening the doors of perception,
> some would call it a spiritual experience, some a religious
> experience...but I think I know what your are talking about.

Molly, were you aware that Huxley was heavily into drugs, especially
the psychedelic sort? I seem to remember that you didn't think much
of awareness gained through drugs. Have you changed your mind on
this?

/e

[Molly Brogan]

No, I haven't changed my mind. Huxley, Leary, Lilly, Groff and many
more well published authors and thinkers of the time dabbled. If you
read the Huxley work, which is voluminous, you will see that he left
drug use behind in favor of more natural consciousness raising. He
even went so far as to (he claimed) improve his eyesight to almost
perfect from being legally blind with these more natural methods.
Stan Groff, probably Leary's best pal, now teaches holotropic breath
work and publishes a book every couple of years on consciousness (no
more drugs.) John Lilly (Mind of the Dolphin) is still a whacked out
character, and a pretty good example of excessive drug use.

My opinion on these drugs is this: they are unnecessary to achieve the
desired states (and can do substantial damage to unintegrated
psyches.) If fact, they can be a limitation, as they take you there
and only there (there is defined as a different state of expanded
awareness for each drug) and continued use will keep you from
expanding further. Without the drugs, a dedicated focus of
consciousness raising and meditative practice can get you there and
allow you to move along naturally on the path of integration.

I understand the shamanistic practice of using drugs to include a
person in their soul retrieval, because the shaman is well versed in
mind expansion, and the average person not. To take them along on the
soul healing journey, the shaman administers the drug to his "patient"
or companion, and then guides the journey for them. This allows the
companion to follow the shaman and participate in the recognition of
the soul journey. I am not advocating or recommending it, but I do
understand it.

[iam deheretic]

You are right Molly the experiences to definitely enthrall me. Watching the what I precieved to be opening of the entireity of the universe is at the least an awesome experince. Then when you realize the power involved it is also terrifing. Being able to laugh at it and see the humor it allows me to deal with life.
Allan

[Molly Brogan]

I can feel the being humbled aspect of your experience as you tell
it. Thanks.

[e_space]

good power lights up the universe, evil power blows it up. there is
nothing to be terrified about if the power is good ime ...

[iam deheretic]

e_space I really don't understand evil,, it seems there is just seperation from the power..
Allan

[Slip Disc]

I agree totally that drugs are not necessary to achieve altered
states, however, sometimes olives can play a role in the inducement of
certain emotional responses. I submit to my olive addiction {;-) But
of course you are correct in your assertion that these influences can
only take you where they take you and not beyond or even laterally and
most likely just a mundane limitation. Whatever the experience, we
are still here and not beyond save for the experience through our
demise. Oh, and if you get the chance and if I'm lucky, can you put a
pimento in for the pizazz?

[Slip Disc]

My Heretic friend, are you responding to my post that was directed at
e-space? The one that starts with "you have drawn conclusions" is a
reply to e-space.

At the bottom of most every post there is "show quoted text". This
shows "Who" the poster is replying to.
So with that said could you explain what you are trying to tell me, if
in fact you are "not" responding to my post to the e.

[e_space]

if you look above iam's post to me, you will see that i mentioned evil
in it ...

[Slip Disc]

Have not the slightest idea what you are talking about nor its
relevance to my post but banana and strawberry yogurt is good too.

[e_space]

*sigh*

[iam deheretic]

Slip disk in counting the number of posts that are quoted not counting this one   there are seven (7) including one of mine.  so which post are you refering to?  Is this not a discussion group? am I not allowed to respond?

Read below..

My Heretic friend, are you responding to my post that was directed at
e-space?   The one that starts with "you have drawn conclusions" is a
reply to e-space.

At the bottom of most every post there is "show quoted text".  This
shows "Who" the poster is replying to.
So with that said could you explain what you are trying to tell me, if
in fact you are "not" responding to my post to the e.

On May 27, 10:30 am, iam deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hay Slip.  the incident I referred to occurred in June of 1975. and I have
> had a lot of time to think about it,, now I know this is really going to
> sound crazy, but the conclusion I keep coming back to is a Father showing
> off for his kids,, especially when they are paying attention.
> the higher purpose thing really does not make sense especially in my case..
> I just think God is cool!
> Allan
>
>
>

- Hide quoted text -

This is the end of the quoted text it is possible to remove part of the Quoted text like this:
Allan

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:

My Heretic friend, are you responding to my post that was directed at
e-space?   The one that starts with "you have drawn conclusions" is a
reply to e-space.

At the bottom of most every post there is "show quoted text".  This
shows "Who" the poster is replying to.
So with that said could you explain what you are trying to tell me, if
in fact you are "not" responding to my post to the e.

On May 27, 10:30 am, iam deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hay Slip.

and I often do, so people do not have to reread everything.

[Tinker]

"What is with this religious experience thing?" Allan

The 'thing' in our mind is the connection to our 'collective
intelligence/higher consciousness/super mind/God' or whatever is the
persons chosen label for the common link amongst mankind.
It is most commonly called a 'spiritual experience'. But people kill
each other in arguing over the particulars of the 'spiritual
experience'.
It can be such an awesome experience of energy that many people tend
to think they have been given some special 'gift'. They go forward
with their personal ideas and believe them to be divinely empowered.
It is the source of insight, inspiration and revelation.
All of this different stuff is about the same connection to the
'thing' in our mind.
Our world is all f...ed up because there is not a common recognition
of the 'thing' :-)

peace & Love

[Slip Disc]

I was asking the same question as to which post you were referring
to. It just seemed that you might have thought my post was directed
at you and that is what I was trying to clarify.

It is not uncommon for people to respond to a post that was directed
at someone else.

[Slip Disc]

Totally!!

[iam deheretic]

No Slip I did not think it was directed at me.  I do not think I take anything personally;  well with maybe the exception of oprem , but he was getting hostile toward everyone. I will try to make sure it is know if I think it is a direct post to me or if I direct it at some one in particular i try to include their name in the beginning.
Allan

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was asking the same question as to which post you were referring
to.  It just seemed that you might have thought my post was directed
at you and that is what I was trying to clarify.

It is not uncommon for people to respond to a post that was directed
at someone else.

[iam deheretic]

Well Tinker to explain the religious thing,,

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:16 AM, Tinker <tin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"What is with this religious experience thing?" Allan

For me it is highly personal, mainly due to my experiences

The 'thing' in our mind is the connection to our 'collective
intelligence/higher consciousness/super mind/God' or whatever is the
persons chosen label for the common link amongst mankind.

It is not  the collection of collective intelligence / higher consciousness though I do believe that does exist and I think people do have access to the memories of people of the past a sort of collective intelligence, but that to me is not the same intelligence that is God.

It is most commonly called a 'spiritual experience'. But people kill
each other in arguing over the particulars of the 'spiritual
experience'.

well I know people kill over beliefs, and it is very sad,, That is one of the main reasons I am not interested in starting a church nor am I called to start a church. There far to many already in existence. Not that the people who originated them were or are wrong,, the problem starts with the followers as like in  all gossip it gets distorted over time. then people start killing over the distortion.

It can be such an awesome experience of energy that many people tend
to think they have been given some special 'gift'. They go forward
with their personal ideas and believe them to be divinely empowered.

Well I can assure you Tinker I am not divinely empowered, nor have I ever had a special gift, or at least none that I know about,, 

It is the source of insight, inspiration and revelation.

 

as for insight, sometimes I think so but the truth is I am not at all sure, there are feelings and opinions about somethings, and I enjoy sharing them. but that is as far as I really want it to go.
I do love a good discussion

All of this different stuff is about the same connection to the
'thing' in our mind.
Our world is all f...ed up because there is not a common recognition
of the 'thing' :-)

 

I totally agree
 

peace & Love
.

I hope this is of help Tinker as your insights and opinions are every bit as valuable as mine are. Like everyone else their insights are precious even if I do not always understand them.
Allan

[Tinker]

It is absolutely your personal experience of God. Nobody knows God as
you do personally.
But everybody knows God by some personal form of recognition. One can
correctly deny God by their understanding and definition, but they
know the same energy as 'an ah ha moment, a fantastic connection in
their head'.

The Energy that we have access to through our mind is absolute and
linked to everything in creation.
The individual connects with and uses the energy for "personal
experience".
You seem to have a 'dogma free' experience that works well for you. I
certainly was not talking about you causing any problem with your
explanation of the experience. If the fundy zealots had your
understanding we'd have a lot less trouble in the world

peace & Love

On May 27, 10:06 pm, iam deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well Tinker to explain the religious thing,,
>

[Tinker]

:-)

peace & Love

[iam deheretic]

Thank you Tinker ,
I think everyone has the same connection.. what I really think is neat they can have as much or as little as they want or can deal with, no condemnation involved.
I do have dogma in my life but fortunately is is for me.. and what i expect of myself and it should never be imposed on some one else. I like doing volunteer work, when people start paying to close of attention,, I usually pull a disappearing act.. I really do not want the attention
I think it is great to watch people walk their own paths,,  they have so much to teach.
Allan

[Molly Brogan]

all of us teachers and students alike...

[gruff]

If I may, I'd like to relate my own drug experiences as they in turn
relate to my intellect and understanding of life and all which that
entails.

From my previous autobiographical expositions, you know I grew up with
a great deal of anger and frustration which prevented me from
achieving the state of mind necessary to learn, extrapolate, develop
insight and wisdom. It was only after I began experimenting with
marijuana and other hallucinogens that I found the means to defuse
that anger and frustration. It was through the use of these drugs.
Marijuana relaxes me sufficiently that the anger drains away and I am
able to see things more clearly. I've tried forsaking marijuana in
lieu of tranquilizers but they merely turned me into an unemotional
lump of clay. They inhibit my thinking and reasoning centers but
marijuana enhances them.

Other, more potent mind altering drugs such as psilocybin, LSD,
belladonna, morning glory seeds, peyote, mescaline, etc., released
parts of my mind previously hidden from me. They did not put anything
into my mind that was not there already. They merely allowed me
access to it, from which I gained further knowledge of myself and my
connection to the universe and the rest of humanity.

From my own personal experience, which I understand is purely
anecdotal and not scientific proof in any form, has convinced me that
mind altering drugs can be useful to the human psyche and intellect,
but in the interest of disclaimer, I would not recommend them to
anyone else. Someday, if I live that long, I also may forsake
marijuana, but until such time that I can keep my anger and
frustration under control to the point where I can think clearly, I'll
keep using it.

[rigsy03]

I am not a drug person or rx person- even have trouble taking a
vitamin. I have had moments with love, music and writing that lifted
me out of life.

> > understand it.- Hide quoted text -

[Molly Brogan]

the uplifting muse!

[rigsy03]

Or the amusing muse to others as I think a public show can be
treacherous.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[rigsy03]

I think Emily Dickinson got it right- something about the top of your
head that lifted off. My daughter corrected me via a Dickinson
scholar- Emily was not a true hermit! LOL She attended Christmas
parties in the neighborhood and dallied a bit during her reclusive 21
years.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Molly Brogan]

Emily sounds like my kind of girl. "All we know of love is love is
all there is..." Leaves room for lots of dally...

[ornamentalmind]

*** humms "If that's all there is...." *** ;-)

[rigsy03]

I like Emily also though not entirely because there are pieces of
experience missing from her life she didn't/cannot write about. That
may be a strange and selfish criticism, I guess. There is a delightful
poem today by ED on www.bartleby.com- a first stop for me in lieu of
morning prayers.//Maybe we feel blessed when things turn out well and
doomed or moody when they don't. Now is this elation related to a
religious experience? And what is the purpose of a difficult mood like
sadness that strikes one out of the blue- unrelated to actual events
or thoughts of the moment. I even wonder if it is related to blood
sugar.

[Molly Brogan]

I know what you mean about the moods, and your honesty is delightful
in itself. Sometimes we feel it all coming together, sometimes we
feel it falling apart. I am nor sure why we feel sad in the falling
apart, but I have begun to, instead of sadness, feel the anticipation
of possibility instead. Thanks for the great reference site.
Although I don't write to rhyme, I enjoy playing with this one:
http://www.rhymer.com/

On May 29, 10:58 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I like Emily also though not entirely because there are pieces of
> experience missing from her life she didn't/cannot write about. That
> may be a strange and selfish criticism, I guess. There is a delightful

> poem today by ED onwww.bartleby.com-a first stop for me in lieu of

[Molly Brogan]

I think also that either one of these states, the bliss of coming
together or the apprehension of falling apart, can include a spiritual
awakening if we are open to it.

On May 29, 10:58 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I like Emily also though not entirely because there are pieces of
> experience missing from her life she didn't/cannot write about. That
> may be a strange and selfish criticism, I guess. There is a delightful

> poem today by ED onwww.bartleby.com-a first stop for me in lieu of

[rigsy03]

Two posts to contemplate, Molly- thank you.

On May 29, 10:13 am, Molly Brogan <mollybro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think also that either one of these states, the bliss of coming
> together or the apprehension of falling apart, can include a spiritual
> awakening if we are open to it.
>
> On May 29, 10:58 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I like Emily also though not entirely because there are pieces of
> > experience missing from her life she didn't/cannot write about. That
> > may be a strange and selfish criticism, I guess. There is a delightful

> > poem today by ED onwww.bartleby.com-afirst stop for me in lieu of