According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
before anything worst happens.
> According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> before anything worst happens.
> On May 16, 2:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > before anything worst happens.
Naaaa I'm not a great fan of poetry to tell the truth, but atheism is
a choice, a free choice, as granted us by God. I can only trust God
knows what God is doing by creating such a creature.
On May 16, 3:42 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> Well,think about it.If you have read "Dover Beach",than wouldn't this
> make sense to you.If you have not try to read it and have this topic
> in mind.
> On May 16, 4:38 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > Meh, I don't know about that.
> > On May 16, 2:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
If atheism is spreading then people will eventually cease believing in
god--atheism is not a virus or other biological system/entity which
can reproduce within a host and spread from person to person. It is a
form of social enlightenment and the rationalization of society, but
this can only spread through modernization and the
institutionalization of such an idea (not secularism which is the firm
establishment of religion as separate from the state). Being as it is
an idea or Weltanschauung, it can only spread through verbal/oral
communication which brings up serious difficulties for its continual
spread. Now, you make the assumption, Thom, that faith is linked to
faith in a god (or many gods). This seems presumptuous. I have 'faith'
that physics will retain its predictive powers. That is not linked in
any fashion to god(s).
Your arguments also seems like a bit of a tautology to me, (faith is
belief in god; atheism is the belief in no god; as the belief in no
god grows faith diminishes...) and thus difficult to generate a firm
conclusion.
Finally, belief in god(s) has always generated problems (a litany well-
known to all and not to be repeated here); atheism has yet to gain the
social position held by religious belief for some several thousand
(tens of thousands?) years. How, then, can one reach a conclusion on
its social lugubriousness / harm? And, isn't the designation of
'atheist' itself a means of producing a 'class' of people to be
oppressed, isolated, ridiculed, etc?
On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> before anything worst happens.
> Naaaa I'm not a great fan of poetry to tell the truth, but atheism is
> a choice, a free choice, as granted us by God. I can only trust God
> knows what God is doing by creating such a creature.
> On May 16, 3:42 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Well,think about it.If you have read "Dover Beach",than wouldn't this
> > make sense to you.If you have not try to read it and have this topic
> > in mind.
> > On May 16, 4:38 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > Meh, I don't know about that.
> > > On May 16, 2:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
cry for religious fervor.
On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> before anything worst happens.
> On May 16, 4:48 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > Naaaa I'm not a great fan of poetry to tell the truth, but atheism is
> > a choice, a free choice, as granted us by God. I can only trust God
> > knows what God is doing by creating such a creature.
> > On May 16, 3:42 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Well,think about it.If you have read "Dover Beach",than wouldn't this
> > > make sense to you.If you have not try to read it and have this topic
> > > in mind.
> > > On May 16, 4:38 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > > Meh, I don't know about that.
> > > > On May 16, 2:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
> Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> cry for religious fervor.
> On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > before anything worst happens.
> Well,we can see that God had no idea what he was doing when he created
> this planet.
> On May 16, 4:48 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > Naaaa I'm not a great fan of poetry to tell the truth, but atheism is
> > a choice, a free choice, as granted us by God. I can only trust God
> > knows what God is doing by creating such a creature.
> > On May 16, 3:42 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Well,think about it.If you have read "Dover Beach",than wouldn't this
> > > make sense to you.If you have not try to read it and have this topic
> > > in mind.
> > > On May 16, 4:38 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > > Meh, I don't know about that.
> > > > On May 16, 2:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
> On May 16, 4:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Well,we can see that God had no idea what he was doing when he created
> > this planet.
> > On May 16, 4:48 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > Naaaa I'm not a great fan of poetry to tell the truth, but atheism is
> > > a choice, a free choice, as granted us by God. I can only trust God
> > > knows what God is doing by creating such a creature.
> > > On May 16, 3:42 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > Well,think about it.If you have read "Dover Beach",than wouldn't this
> > > > make sense to you.If you have not try to read it and have this topic
> > > > in mind.
> > > > On May 16, 4:38 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > > > Meh, I don't know about that.
> > > > > On May 16, 2:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
I don't think that is right at all Tom. Atheism is a lack of belife
in God(or a belife in the non existance of God)but I don't think
atheism is responsible for atheism.
On May 16, 4:13 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> that?
> On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > cry for religious fervor.
> > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
"The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world."
(from Dover Beach by Matthew Arnold)
Thom, I presume this is the verse to which you are referring. In the
context of the poem itself, the reference to the retreat of faith
seems to me to be (at least) partly a poetic device to emphasise the
importance of love as a personal anchor in an increasingly threatening
and confused world (see the final verse).
It is, of course, very questionable if the "golden age" of faith
Arnold refers to ever existed. It was a common romantic view in the
19th. Century to regard particular epochs in the past as perfect
times, whether the world of the Arthurian sagas or the 12th. or 13th.
Centuries, often regarded by religious thinkers of the time as a
golden age of Christian belief. Many people, experiencing many of the
horrors associated with industrialisation, hankered for a simpler,
more bucolic age. Historically, such views simply aren't true and can
only be upheld by the application of extremely rose-coloured
spectacles.
For what it's worth, I have degrees in both history and theology
and cannot see any evidence for periods in the past where religious
faith was substantially involved in contributing and sustaining a
better world, or better societies than we currently have or are
capable of achieving with the resources available to us today, at the
beginning of the 21st. Century (although I don't want to imply that
this will necessarily happen). It can just as easily (and perhaps,
even, with more foundation) be argued that religiously organised
societies have been responsible for so much cruelty and inhumanity
(crusades, jihads, witch-hunts, persecution of those who believe
differently, narrow-mindedness, repression of art, literature and
creativity in general, hypocrisy, etc.) that we should be trying to
distance ourselves from them as much as possible.
It is a common device of religious believers to define atheism as a
threat to humanity, one of the ultimate evils. Such approaches I
regard as, at best, mistaken, more often as signs of ignorance,
intolerance or pernicious propaganda. The basic question is whether a
belief in some kind of God is necessary to live a decent, moral life,
or to organise a decent, just society. I would argue; emphatically
not!
Francis
On 16 Mai, 15:02, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> before anything worst happens.
> I don't think that is right at all Tom. Atheism is a lack of belife
> in God(or a belife in the non existance of God)but I don't think
> atheism is responsible for atheism.
> On May 16, 4:13 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > that?
> > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
Well Francis,I do not have a degree in any subject as I am still a
scholar,but I can say that I have been through periods of religious
propaganda from many different people ,and maybe I have made quite a
mistake in my logic towards this topic.
On May 16, 5:28 pm, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> "The Sea of Faith
> Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
> Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
> But now I only hear
> Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
> Retreating, to the breath
> Of the night wind, down the vast edges drear
> And naked shingles of the world."
> (from Dover Beach by Matthew Arnold)
> Thom, I presume this is the verse to which you are referring. In the
> context of the poem itself, the reference to the retreat of faith
> seems to me to be (at least) partly a poetic device to emphasise the
> importance of love as a personal anchor in an increasingly threatening
> and confused world (see the final verse).
> It is, of course, very questionable if the "golden age" of faith
> Arnold refers to ever existed. It was a common romantic view in the
> 19th. Century to regard particular epochs in the past as perfect
> times, whether the world of the Arthurian sagas or the 12th. or 13th.
> Centuries, often regarded by religious thinkers of the time as a
> golden age of Christian belief. Many people, experiencing many of the
> horrors associated with industrialisation, hankered for a simpler,
> more bucolic age. Historically, such views simply aren't true and can
> only be upheld by the application of extremely rose-coloured
> spectacles.
> For what it's worth, I have degrees in both history and theology
> and cannot see any evidence for periods in the past where religious
> faith was substantially involved in contributing and sustaining a
> better world, or better societies than we currently have or are
> capable of achieving with the resources available to us today, at the
> beginning of the 21st. Century (although I don't want to imply that
> this will necessarily happen). It can just as easily (and perhaps,
> even, with more foundation) be argued that religiously organised
> societies have been responsible for so much cruelty and inhumanity
> (crusades, jihads, witch-hunts, persecution of those who believe
> differently, narrow-mindedness, repression of art, literature and
> creativity in general, hypocrisy, etc.) that we should be trying to
> distance ourselves from them as much as possible.
> It is a common device of religious believers to define atheism as a
> threat to humanity, one of the ultimate evils. Such approaches I
> regard as, at best, mistaken, more often as signs of ignorance,
> intolerance or pernicious propaganda. The basic question is whether a
> belief in some kind of God is necessary to live a decent, moral life,
> or to organise a decent, just society. I would argue; emphatically
> not!
> Francis
> On 16 Mai, 15:02, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > before anything worst happens.
Because when one lacks belife in God one is an Atheist. A lack of
belief in God is not the cuase of a lack of belife in God. You may as
well be saying racisim is the cause of racism, it makes as much sense.
On May 16, 4:29 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> Why not?.Is the lack of belief of God not the lack of Faith or
> Religion ,as stated in this poem.I would think so but I may be
> terribly wrong?
> On May 16, 5:26 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > I don't think that is right at all Tom. Atheism is a lack of belife
> > in God(or a belife in the non existance of God)but I don't think
> > atheism is responsible for atheism.
> > On May 16, 4:13 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > that?
> > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
Well,Lee.I believe that a person is given a for of belief once they
are born,and only if another person persuades that person that there
is no God etc,that person will be transformed into an Atheist.Will
that person not be one then?
On May 16, 5:47 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> Because when one lacks belife in God one is an Atheist. A lack of
> belief in God is not the cuase of a lack of belife in God. You may as
> well be saying racisim is the cause of racism, it makes as much sense.
> On May 16, 4:29 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Why not?.Is the lack of belief of God not the lack of Faith or
> > Religion ,as stated in this poem.I would think so but I may be
> > terribly wrong?
> > On May 16, 5:26 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > I don't think that is right at all Tom. Atheism is a lack of belife
> > > in God(or a belife in the non existance of God)but I don't think
> > > atheism is responsible for atheism.
> > > On May 16, 4:13 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > > that?
> > > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
> Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> that?
> On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > cry for religious fervor.
> > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > before anything worst happens.
> On May 16, 11:13 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > that?
> > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > before anything worst happens.
> Well then the person had a belief before it was taken away,no?.And
> without beliefe there is no Faith is there not.
> On May 16, 5:59 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is its definition!
> > On May 16, 11:13 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > that?
> > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > before anything worst happens.
> Ahhh! I see what you are getting at. Well, I have never had a belief
> in god (that I know of) that was not imposed upon me by society.
> On May 16, 12:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Well then the person had a belief before it was taken away,no?.And
> > without beliefe there is no Faith is there not.
> > On May 16, 5:59 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > That is its definition!
> > > On May 16, 11:13 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > > that?
> > > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > > before anything worst happens.
No not at all. Not all are religous, nor brought up religiously.
Take myself for example, I come from an atheist family, I 'got'
religoin when I was about10 or 11, and I 'got' it all by myself with
nobody adding or taking away from my belifes.
My wife and kids though are atheists, and it may be that my childen
change their mind, but if they do so, it will not be becuase I have
taken one belife away and given another in it's place, it will be
becuase of their own choices.
On May 16, 5:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> Well then the person had a belief before it was taken away,no?.And
> without beliefe there is no Faith is there not.
> On May 16, 5:59 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is its definition!
> > On May 16, 11:13 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > that?
> > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
> Well,Lee.I believe that a person is given a for of belief once they
> are born,and only if another person persuades that person that there
> is no God etc,that person will be transformed into an Atheist.Will
> that person not be one then?
> On May 16, 5:47 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > Because when one lacks belife in God one is an Atheist. A lack of
> > belief in God is not the cuase of a lack of belife in God. You may as
> > well be saying racisim is the cause of racism, it makes as much sense.
> > On May 16, 4:29 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Why not?.Is the lack of belief of God not the lack of Faith or
> > > Religion ,as stated in this poem.I would think so but I may be
> > > terribly wrong?
> > > On May 16, 5:26 pm, Lee <l...@rdfmedia.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't think that is right at all Tom. Atheism is a lack of belife
> > > > in God(or a belife in the non existance of God)but I don't think
> > > > atheism is responsible for atheism.
> > > > On May 16, 4:13 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > > > that?
> > > > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> Well you were given a form of belief were you not when you were born?
> On May 16, 6:03 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ahhh! I see what you are getting at. Well, I have never had a belief
> > in god (that I know of) that was not imposed upon me by society.
> > On May 16, 12:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > Well then the person had a belief before it was taken away,no?.And
> > > without beliefe there is no Faith is there not.
> > > On May 16, 5:59 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > That is its definition!
> > > > On May 16, 11:13 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > > > that?
> > > > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > > > before anything worst happens.
> No not at all. Not all are religous, nor brought up religiously.
> Take myself for example, I come from an atheist family, I 'got'
> religoin when I was about10 or 11, and I 'got' it all by myself with
> nobody adding or taking away from my belifes.
> My wife and kids though are atheists, and it may be that my childen
> change their mind, but if they do so, it will not be becuase I have
> taken one belife away and given another in it's place, it will be
> becuase of their own choices.
> On May 16, 5:02 pm, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > Well then the person had a belief before it was taken away,no?.And
> > without beliefe there is no Faith is there not.
> > On May 16, 5:59 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > That is its definition!
> > > On May 16, 11:13 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > Reply to your earlier topic.Atheism is not a virus,but it is
> > > > responsible for the lack of belief and faith in God.Do you not believe
> > > > that?
> > > > On May 16, 5:08 pm, Felix Krull <jaw0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Besides, much of this 'newness' spoken of in Arnold is a reference to
> > > > > the colonial push, the development in the Victorian period of exotic
> > > > > trade, parlors filling with the 'new' and the exotic. This offers no
> > > > > respite for Arnold. The ignorant armies fight over these same things,
> > > > > land, the exotic, property, all the while mapping the world in their
> > > > > own image. Seems more like a cry for peace and anti-colonialism than a
> > > > > cry for religious fervor.
> > > > > On May 16, 9:02 am, mr Thomas <lyallp...@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
> > > > > > According to the poem "Dover Beach" by "M.Arnold",I believe that
> > > > > > without people believing in God, the faith of our planet will only
> > > > > > carry on withdrawing,so I believe that Atheism should be discarded
> > > > > > before anything worst happens.- Hide quoted text -
