I had a conversation today w/ someone who is a legal immigrant in the US, has a college degree wants to work toward his CPA but can't because no one will hire him 'cause he has no experience and he can't GET work experience (he does volunteer at his former college and has for civic orgs.) until someone hires him.
As do many of you, I am sure, I have experience in going through that. How does one do it? For those of you on the list who are students (or those who teach) it is a dilemma and an icky one!
What do you do?
Joan
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
Joan L. Eisenstodt Chief Strategist Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training 770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001 ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619 email: _eisenst...@aol.com_ (mailto:eisenst...@aol.com) CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at _www.meetingmegasite.com_ (http://www.meetingmegasite.com/) and _http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum_ (http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum) . This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person without the express written permission of the author.
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When I ran my business in the DC area I took on inexperienced people as "interns" for a day a week or two days per week. I offered training and paid a small hourly fee. As they gained experience I offered them extra hours and more money. If they were good, of which I had two, I took them on full time and made them employees and gave them regular salaries. I shared both these interns with other organizations during training, which gave the intern added training and income. They were non competing companies such as a caterer and an expo house.
This enabled me to see if the person had the capability to carry out the role and it gave them an opportunity to gain free training and have some income. If they were good and showed promise I guaranteed them a job if they reached agreed standards. Both those interns went on to have senior positions in the industry and I am proud of them...
Any event/conference/marketing company will gain from this type of program and non competing companies can build an alliance to create an inter program to give these people a wide scope of training. It enables the individual to see in what area they would like to specialize...
Sue Fern Event Pro-SSSS
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From: MiForum@googlegroups.com on behalf of Eisenst...@aol.com Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 5:07 PM To: MiForum@googlegroups.com Subject: MiForum Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire you`
I had a conversation today w/ someone who is a legal immigrant in the US, has a college degree wants to work toward his CPA but can't because no one will hire him 'cause he has no experience and he can't GET work experience (he does volunteer at his former college and has for civic orgs.) until someone hires him.
As do many of you, I am sure, I have experience in going through that. How does one do it? For those of you on the list who are students (or those who teach) it is a dilemma and an icky one!
What do you do?
Joan
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
Joan L. Eisenstodt Chief Strategist Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training 770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001 ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619 email: eisenst...@aol.com <mailto:eisenst...@aol.com> CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at www.meetingmegasite.com <http://www.meetingmegasite.com/> and http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum <http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum> . This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person without the express written permission of the author.
Volunteer as much as possible. Gain as much experience as you can. Get reference letters from those you volunteer for.
Attend monthly meetings of whatever associations have chapters in your area: MPI, PCMA, NACE, HSMAI, etc. Do this even with associations you are not directly interested in, if their supplier members may be helpful. For example, if you attend PCMA, you will meet those that market to and service PCMA members, including Hotel Sales people, Service Contractors, DMCs, etc.
Be willing to take an entry level job, even if the salary and responsibilities are not what you are looking for. It is easier to find a job when you have a job, and you will be gaining experience.
For international folks, if you have a strong accent, practice speaking clearly, even if you have to take a diction class. My international students have a difficult time because many companies do not want to take interns that can't speak English clearly, because they don't have the time or patience to stop to understand them. And, they don't want them dealing with their customers as a representative of their company - especially if telephones have to be answered.
On 3/20/07, Eisenst...@aol.com <Eisenst...@aol.com> wrote:
> I had a conversation today w/ someone who is a legal immigrant in the US, > has a college degree wants to work toward his CPA but can't because no one > will hire him 'cause he has no experience and he can't GET work experience > (he does volunteer at his former college and has for civic orgs.) until > someone hires him.
> As do many of you, I am sure, I have experience in going through that. How > does one do it? For those of you on the list who are students (or those who > teach) it is a dilemma and an icky one!
> What do you do?
> Joan
> "There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there > must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
> Joan L. Eisenstodt > Chief Strategist > Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training > 770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001 > ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619 > email: eisenst...@aol.com > CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - > Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the > [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at > www.meetingmegasite.com and > http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum. > This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not > copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its > content to any other person without the express written permission of the > author.
> ________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com.
-- Patti J. Shock, CPCE Professor and Chair Tourism and Convention Administration Department Harrah College of Hotel Administration University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 Maryland Pkwy - Box 456023 Las Vegas NV 89154-6023 Phone: 702/895-0875 Fax: 702/895-4870 E-mail: patti.sh...@unlv.edu Blog: http://www.bloglines.com/blog/PattiShock
I agree with all that Patti said, especially about the entry level job.
Sometimes I feel college graduates have unrealistic expectations about the employment market and that a degree will ultimately result in a position and salary that is more appropriate for someone who has been in the industry for awhile. Another thing college students don't realize is a lot of getting things done (and getting in the door), especially in our industry is about who you know and not necessarily what you know. In order to establish those key relationships that can help you get where you want to be is about making the time to get to know who's who in the industry (and that doesn't happen over night - sometimes it takes years).
I will add to what Patti said to make sure that the person find a mentor or supervisor who is willing to teach them what it takes to get to the next level. When I came out of college I worked as a conference assistant and had an awesome mentor who taught me the things about the industry (how to track sleeping room data, negotiate contracts, guaranteeing food and beverage, etc. - my degree was in sociology not hospitality) I didn't learn in college. She wanted someone who was motivated and eager to get the job done, someone she could teach the trade and she did that. A lot of what I do now, and how I do it, I learned in that assistant position.
Another thing college students can do is make a connection with a professional in the industry who can advocate on their behalf. I have about 4-5 resumes sitting in my inbox of people that I have committed to helping break into the industry. When any one of my colleagues inquire about people or when a job opening comes across my desk, I make sure the connection is made between job seeker and potential employer.
Everett
Everett T. Shupe II, MBA, CMP Learning Events Manager Goodwill Industries International 15810 Indianola Drive Rockville, MD 20855 Direct: (240) 333-5258 Fax: (301) 530-1516 www.goodwill.org
All the posts are good ones. What would you tell someone whose degree is in accounting (not in the meetings world) where experience is more difficult to get ... without experience .. and one can't even begin to get a CPA w/o experience?
Joan
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
Joan L. Eisenstodt Chief Strategist Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training 770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001 ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619 email: _eisenst...@aol.com_ (mailto:eisenst...@aol.com) CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at _www.meetingmegasite.com_ (http://www.meetingmegasite.com/) and _http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum_ (http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum) . This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person without the express written permission of the author.
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
I'm responding to this before I read the rest of the posts, so I apologize if I'm repeating what's been said.
It's a sad situation. I can remember being in it myself when I first starting working (just yesterday!).
Network, network, network. Check out appropriate associations and find the best match for you & network network network & volunteer volunteer volunteer
I tell my students to make up business cards with their name, email (& not sexfox.com!) and a phone number. And add a line about 'looking for a job".
Volunteer with a group that you are passionate about and get to know the players. You never know where a job will come from and you will do satisfying work to boot.
I have a database of all my students & when I get job or volunteer opportunities, I send them to all on my list. My students do good work & get jobs from this method. They are past students & current students. Unfortunately, I lost about 250 of these names recently, but I'm rebuilding. My list is about 400 strong & growing with each class.
Have someone else go over your resume & see what else you can add that's experience with cross over skills. You might be surprised.
And lastly, be kind to yourself. I know it's tough. Have a good support group, treat yourself well & do something small for yourself at least once aweek--it could just be a coffee & muffin in a coffee shop you like.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge..."Einstein
"In times of change, learners inherit the Earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists"...Eric Hoffer
----- Original Message ----- From: Eisenst...@aol.com To: MiForum@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:07 PM Subject: MiForum Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire you`
I had a conversation today w/ someone who is a legal immigrant in the US, has a college degree wants to work toward his CPA but can't because no one will hire him 'cause he has no experience and he can't GET work experience (he does volunteer at his former college and has for civic orgs.) until someone hires him.
As do many of you, I am sure, I have experience in going through that. How does one do it? For those of you on the list who are students (or those who teach) it is a dilemma and an icky one!
What do you do?
Joan
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
Joan L. Eisenstodt Chief Strategist Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training 770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001 ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619 email: eisenst...@aol.com CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at www.meetingmegasite.com and http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum. This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person without the express written permission of the author.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
Joan, if this individual is well-versed in public accounting, here's something they may wish to consider. Our church has an accountant and each year she offers to do taxes and donates her fees to a mission project she is passionate about which is part of our church's visioning objectives. So the church promotes her services in the church bulletin and via email. This may be something he'd wish to do in some way either through a church or temple affiliation, or possibly another type of organization. He can then get letters of recommendation from both personal and company clients he did referrals for..and there are always organizations that need someone with accounting background to serve either as a volunteer or on their BOD. Not sure of this person's age, but if they're of retired age, offering services through SCORE for the referrals is another resource as they consult and help start-ups get started and his expertise would be invaluable. Note that in today's world of job transitioning, it is not at all unusual that someone who could possible be retired as a senior is making a career transition, so I don't wish to offend on either side of the fence.
No matter the industry, I think the process is virtually the same. Networking, looking for pro bono opportunities with the right kind of ROI giving us credibility and the only other thing I'd suggest is "informational interviewing". This takes chutzpah, as Joan would say, as you have to pick up the phone, call an accounting firm and ask to speak to a managing partner and ask them if they have 30 minutes to offer for an information interview about the profession. In essence, your friend would be f2f with the person who may just be doing the hiring (or at the very least give a great recommendation) and ask them poignant questions such as, "Someone with my skill sets and educational background overseas, what do I need to do in order to get hired as an accountant with a firm like yours or one of your competitors?"; "Would I be more inclined to have better success if I were to cit for my CPA prior to my job search?"; or "Can you be candid with me and advise what I am 'missing' in my educational background or presentation on paper and in person that would help me to succeed in landing my first job?".
Information interviews have landed me a couple of offers when I had an "itch" that I ultimately didn't scratch that I thought might be loads of fun. In both instances, I was offered jobs "on the spot" for having taken such creative initiative with a personal touch in getting in the door and talking to the person who had the power to say "yes" to a new employee. It was gratifying, but I didn't take either job in the end. So....it can be done!
From: MiForum@googlegroups.com [mailto:MiForum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eisenst...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:30 AM To: MiForum@googlegroups.com Subject: MiForum Re: Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire you`
All the posts are good ones. What would you tell someone whose degree is in accounting (not in the meetings world) where experience is more difficult to get ... without experience .. and one can't even begin to get a CPA w/o experience?
Joan
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
Joan L. Eisenstodt Chief Strategist Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training 770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001 ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619 email: eisenst...@aol.com CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at www.meetingmegasite.com <http://www.meetingmegasite.com/> and http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum. This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person without the express written permission of the author.
Ther are entry level jobs in accounting such as accounts rec clerk and accounts payable clerk or payroll and accounting generalist. I would also recommend any type of assistant job with one of the big accounting firms. Similar to our inustry you do not have to be a cpa to wor in accounting.
----- Original Message -----
From: MiForum@googlegroups.com <MiForum@googlegroups.com>
To: MiForum@googlegroups.com <MiForum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed Mar 21 11:30:27 2007
Subject: MiForum Re: Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire you`
All the posts are good ones. What would you tell someone whose degree is in accounting (not in the meetings world) where experience is more difficult to get ... without experience .. and one can't even begin to get a CPA w/o experience?
Joan
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- - Elie Wiesel
Joan L. Eisenstodt Chief Strategist
Eisenstodt Associates, LLC, Conference Consulting, Facilitation & Training
770 5th St., NW, #1105, Washington, DC 20001
ph.: 202.543.7971; fax: 202.543.4619
email: eisenst...@aol.com
CIC Hall of Leaders Inductee - Honored by HSMAI, IACC, MPI , NSA, and PCMA - Consistently on the List of the "25 Most Influential in the [Meetings/Hospitality] Industry" - Moderator of MiForum at www.meetingmegasite.com <http://www.meetingmegasite.com/> and http://groups.google.com/group/MiForum. This email, its contents, and attachments are confidential. You should not copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person without the express written permission of the author.
Lara, can you be just a bit more specific in how your transitioning in the marketplace, i.e. planners who wants to get into sales, etc? Then we can give you more insight. Also, there have been some other discussions on this and you might find information quickly, if needed, by looking through the archives and grab some pearls as well. We're all here to help one another, so let us know a bit more about yourself and what you're thinking about doing.
From: MiForum@googlegroups.com [mailto:MiForum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lara Thompson Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:13 AM To: MiForum@googlegroups.com Subject: MiForum Re: Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire you`
As someone who is changing their career, what advice would you give to get the experience and to boost their resume?
another question/bit of advice on this one...what is the best way to explain reasons for leaving jobs (like I left the hospital because they wanted to put me on the overnight shift--that's all I'll put on the internet), or for explaining 3 jobs in 20 months.
Hopefully this is still on track with the "transitioning in the marketplace" original topic...as I am trying to transition back into hospitality.
Thanks!
p.s. I know this is off topic...but as I watch Nightline, with a continuation of the story about the pet food debaucle, I hope and pray no one here is affected by the recall and everyone's pets are ok...
On 3/21/07, Gloria Nelson, CSEP <glo...@nelsoneventdesign.com> wrote:
> Lara, can you be just a bit more specific in how your transitioning in > the marketplace, i.e. planners who wants to get into sales, etc? Then we > can give you more insight. Also, there have been some other discussions on > this and you might find information quickly, if needed, by looking through > the archives and grab some pearls as well. We're all here to help one > another, so let us know a bit more about yourself and what you're thinking > about doing.
> *From:* MiForum@googlegroups.com [mailto:MiForum@googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Lara Thompson > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:13 AM > *To:* MiForum@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* MiForum Re: Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire > you`
> As someone who is changing their career, what advice would you give to get > the experience and to boost their resume?
I was just laid off from a research marketing position in a large company.
I am currently taking classes in conference and event planning.
I would like to be a meeting or conference coordinator for a company, not planning to start my own business at this time.
Thank you for the insight, I will go back through the archives to see if I can find gems of info.
Lara Thompson
_____
From: MiForum@googlegroups.com [mailto:MiForum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gloria Nelson, CSEP Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:17 PM To: MiForum@googlegroups.com Subject: MiForum Re: Lara's ??'s Job Transition/Was getting experience for hiring
Lara, can you be just a bit more specific in how your transitioning in the marketplace, i.e. planners who wants to get into sales, etc? Then we can give you more insight. Also, there have been some other discussions on this and you might find information quickly, if needed, by looking through the archives and grab some pearls as well. We’re all here to help one another, so let us know a bit more about yourself and what you’re thinking about doing.
From: MiForum@googlegroups.com [mailto:MiForum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lara Thompson Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:13 AM To: MiForum@googlegroups.com Subject: MiForum Re: Getting a job w/o experience when no one will hire you`
As someone who is changing their career, what advice would you give to get the experience and to boost their resume?
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