[MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

[Patrick O'Donnell]

Hi

We are a c/s 5.65 site and are having discussions as to what we should populate in the TRADE NAME field of the drug dictionary.  Should it be populated with the trade name for ALL formulary items even if we only stock the generic equivalent or should it be left blank for those items that we only stock the generic equivalent of that drug??

 

Patrick J. O'Donnell, RPh

Cell: 570-926-9049

Provena Health


           

 

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[Charles Downs]

I’ve always had the real trade names there because even for generic products where the trade name is no longer made, physicians will still order by trade name. Also, you want both names on the e-MAR and in CPOE. You should also use generic equivalent field if you have more than one trade name. For instance, I have Zestril,Prinivil in the trade name field and then Prinivil for a generic equivalent.

Charlie

 

 

Charles Downs PharmD

Information Systems Pharmacist

Meritus Health, Inc.

11116 Medical Campus Road

Hagerstown, MD, 21742

301-790-8904

 

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[RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com]

I have a hard time entering a Trade name on a product that is clearly obtained from a generic source.  I just don't think I can mis-label my products and have to be sensitive to that issue. This trade name will appear on any label attached to a product.
However, I do see the need to have the trade names visible for CPOE (POM) to help the provider during POM order entry.

For generic lisinipril, I have generic name in the trade name field. I then put common Trade names in the Generic Equivalent field.  I flag these with an asterisk. (ie Zestril*,  Prinivil*)





Richard Plourde, R.Ph.
Pharmacy Department
St. Mary's Regional Medical Center
PO Box 291
Lewiston, ME  04243-0291
207-753-4994 (Meditech Operations Center)
207-777-8382 (Pharmacy)
rplo...@stmarysmaine.com

"I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them"
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From:        Charles Downs <Charle...@meritushealth.com>
To:        "Patrick O'Donnell" <patrick....@ctghs.com>, "medit...@mtusers.com" <medit...@mtusers.com>
Date:        05/15/2012 10:14 PM
Subject:        Re: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary
Sent by:        meditech-...@mtusers.com

---

I’ve always had the real trade names there because even for generic products where the trade name is no longer made, physicians will still order by trade name. Also, you want both names on the e-MAR and in CPOE. You should also use generic equivalent field if you have more than one trade name. For instance, I have Zestril,Prinivil in the trade name field and then Prinivil for a generic equivalent.

Charlie

 

 

Charles Downs PharmD

Information Systems Pharmacist

Meritus Health, Inc.

11116 Medical Campus Road

Hagerstown, MD, 21742

301-790-8904

 

 

 

 

From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of Patrick O'Donnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:09 PM
To: medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

 

Hi

We are a c/s 5.65 site and are having discussions as to what we should populate in the TRADE NAME field of the drug dictionary.  Should it be populated with the trade name for ALL formulary items even if we only stock the generic equivalent or should it be left blank for those items that we only stock the generic equivalent of that drug??

 

Patrick J. O'Donnell, RPh

Cell: 570-926-9049


Provena Health


           



 

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it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
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in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
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[Ray Fernandez]

I recommend entering the most common trade name in the Trade Name field, and any alternative names in the Generic Equivalent field as Charlie suggests. The only difference is that I would only enter one name in the Trade Name field instead of Zestril,Prinivil. The physicians still order by trade name and in CPOE they will search for drugs by the trade name. To address Richard’s concern, you are not dispensing the drug as the Trade, only using it as an internal reference. Entering the generic name in the trade name field is redundant since the generic is already used as a lookup. For labels, they are all customizable and can print either Trade, Generic, or both names.

 

The only time I would recommend deviating from entering a Trade Name would be in the instance of a “placeholder” type drug entry such as OWN MED or NON-FORM. For any placeholder drug entries the Trade Name field should be left blank so the RX ID (which should be edited at order entry) will be used in the EMR and eMAR.

 

Sincerely,

Raymond Fernandez

Dearborn Advisors, LLC

rfern...@dearbornadvisors.com

cell: 361-549-2999

fax: 1-636-212-9076

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[IVANYISKY JR,ALEX M]

We use a trade name + “Equiv.” in the Trade Name field to denote we are not actually dispensing the trade name product.

 

Alex Ivanyisky, RPh

Pharmacy Informatics Coordinator

Woman's Hospital Pharmacy Dept

Baton Rouge, LA

 

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[Jeff Lee]

I understand your point and swam upstream against the design for years.  With desktop eMAR and CPOE, I finally caved and went with the flow (most common trade name or historical trade name).  Of course, we have custom label outputs so we don’t have to misbrand our products, especially for outpatient dispensing.

 

This is in PHA only.  I continue to resist updating 29,000+ drugs manually in RXM (with about 250 new items each month).

 

Jeff

 

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From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:26 AM
To: Charles Downs
Cc: meditech-...@mtusers.com; medit...@mtusers.com

[Jeff Lee]

I’ve asked the same.   If I were designing RXM, I’d have one drug mnemonic entry for each GPC from FDB, then use a multiple field for Trade Name and NDC (just like PHA, imagine).

 

I think they are planning a “common orderable” where the site has to create and maintain one selected representative of the GPC for each drug…then the user search would like to the “common orderable tier first so that look-ups are smaller and you’re likely to have drugs selected you know map over to PHA, have strings, etc…however, this just seems like a much more labor intensive maintenance design.

 

Jeff

 

---

From: Charles Downs [mailto:Charle...@meritushealth.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:11 AM
To: Jeff Lee; RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com
Cc: meditech-...@mtusers.com; medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

 

As an added not, do not change a generic name to a trade name in RXM or it will keep creating new entries as it thinks that the generic entry does not exist and you will wind up with duplicates. We took a bunch of DTS’s to fix some other issues and it may have corrected this. The problem you run into in RXM is that some trade names are no longer available and it is just the generic, but there is no generic equivalent in RXM. I’ve asked Mark Donovan to look at this and to try to create a generic equivalent field in RXM.

Charlie

[Charles Downs]

As an added not, do not change a generic name to a trade name in RXM or it will keep creating new entries as it thinks that the generic entry does not exist and you will wind up with duplicates. We took a bunch of DTS’s to fix some other issues and it may have corrected this. The problem you run into in RXM is that some trade names are no longer available and it is just the generic, but there is no generic equivalent in RXM. I’ve asked Mark Donovan to look at this and to try to create a generic equivalent field in RXM.

Charlie

 

From: Jeff Lee [mailto:JL...@dchsystem.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:05 AM

[Charles Downs]

If there are more than two trade names for a product, having them both in the trade name field is helpful for the nurses checking their e-MAR versus written orders. This probably wouldn’t be an issue once you are 100% CPOE. The other option, and I know that some states require this, is to put something like Zestril Sub, or Subtituted for Zestril. Here in Maryland, we’ve never had this problem. I believe that it would be wise to check with you state board of pharmacy to see what they want to see. Also, you need to see how this relates to a trade name being used on a generic when prepacking, on labels, on the e-MAR, and as look-ups as they may have different legal interpretations.

Thanks,

Charlie

 

 

Charles Downs PharmD

Information Systems Pharmacist

Meritus Health, Inc.

11116 Medical Campus Road

Hagerstown, MD, 21742

301-790-8904

 

[Jeff Lee]

[MAGIC]  Oh.  Forgot to mention previously that most if not all of POM trade name displays come from the trade name field in QuickScripts, not PHA.  When it comes to POM searching, there is also a “generic equivalent-equivalent” multiple field. 

 

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From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of Ray Fernandez

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 7:43 AM

[david watson]

Here is the deal -

RXM needs the trade name from the formulary.  Why?  If you plan on ever doing ERX, you will have to wipe out your drug dictionaries (trust me Meditech doesn't have loops for it and you will be in a world of work).  The trade name, ndc and generic product code (GPI or GCN) are all identifiers used when sending information off to pharmacies, continue from amb and to amb functionality with medication reconciliation.  You will severely debilitate your ability to accurately send drugs to a pharmacy and convert them.

Here is what I would recommend - leave your drug dictionaries alone.  Obviously you need to stock your formulary and feel free to do what you need to do to PHA, just don't change the names around.  Also, don't tell your nurses to enter the wrong home med just because it is on your formulary  By leveraging favorite lists you should be able to alleviate these issues.  If you don't like the way this works complain to Meditech and or LSS as this issue is common for just about every site using RXM, DrFirst and enterprise-wide medication reconciliation.

How do I know all of this?  I have implemented eRx at over 12 ambulatory sites as a former employee at LSS and been part of plenty of these discussions.  If you are a 6.x site it gets worse especially if you are using LSS.  There are four separate drug dictionaries and the transition from RXM to OM on the M-AT side hasn't been pleasant.

Thanks,
David


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 10:10:31 -0400
From: Charles Downs <Charle...@meritushealth.com>
To: Jeff Lee <JL...@dchsystem.com>, "RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com"
       <RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com>
Cc: "meditech-...@mtusers.com" <meditech-...@mtusers.com>,
       "medit...@mtusers.com" <medit...@mtusers.com>

Subject: Re: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

Message-ID:
       <275A974F585D7249A1482...@MHXCHCM.wchsys.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As an added not, do not change a generic name to a trade name in RXM or it will keep creating new entries as it thinks that the generic entry does not exist and you will wind up with duplicates. We took a bunch of DTS's to fix some other issues and it may have corrected this. The problem you run into in RXM is that some trade names are no longer available and it is just the generic, but there is no generic equivalent in RXM. I've asked Mark Donovan to look at this and to try to create a generic equivalent field in RXM.
Charlie

From: Jeff Lee [mailto:JL...@dchsystem.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:05 AM
To: RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com; Charles Downs
Cc: meditech-...@mtusers.com

; medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: RE: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

I understand your point and swam upstream against the design for years.  With desktop eMAR and CPOE, I finally caved and went with the flow (most common trade name or historical trade name).  Of course, we have custom label outputs so we don't have to misbrand our products, especially for outpatient dispensing.

This is in PHA only.  I continue to resist updating 29,000+ drugs manually in RXM (with about 250 new items each month).

Jeff

________________________________

From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:26 AM

[cid:image0...@01CD334C.1FFC1E40]

From: meditech-...@mtusers.com [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of Patrick O'Donnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:09 PM
To: medit...@mtusers.com
Subject: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary



Hi

We are a c/s 5.65 site and are having discussions as to what we should populate in the TRADE NAME field of the drug dictionary.  Should it be populated with the trade name for ALL formulary items even if we only stock the generic equivalent or should it be left blank for those items that we only stock the generic equivalent of that drug??



Patrick J. O'Donnell, RPh

Cell: 570-926-9049


Provena Health

  <http://www.linkedin.com/companies/ctg>

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this
message, please contact the sender and delete this material from this computer.
________________________________


***** CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE ***** This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.

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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:26:14 +0000
From: Jeff Lee <JL...@dchsystem.com>
To: Ray Fernandez <rfern...@dearbornadvisors.com>,
       "RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com" <RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com>, Charles Downs
       <Charle...@meritushealth.com>
Cc: "meditech-...@mtusers.com" <meditech-...@mtusers.com>,
       "medit...@mtusers.com" <medit...@mtusers.com>

Subject: Re: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

Message-ID:
       <0C9DFCE1C5C18B4AA7E2...@EXCHANGE-MAILBX.dchsystem.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

rplo...@stmarysmaine.com<mailto:rplo...@stmarysmaine.com>

"I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them"
                                                    (Isaac Asimov)





From:        Charles Downs <Charle...@meritushealth.com<mailto:Charle...@meritushealth.com>>
To:        "Patrick O'Donnell" <patrick....@ctghs.com<mailto:patrick....@ctghs.com>>, "medit...@mtusers.com<mailto:medit...@mtusers.com>" <medit...@mtusers.com<mailto:medit...@mtusers.com>>
Date:        05/15/2012 10:14 PM
Subject:        Re: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary
Sent by:        meditech-...@mtusers.com<mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com>
________________________________




I've always had the real trade names there because even for generic products where the trade name is no longer made, physicians will still order by trade name. Also, you want both names on the e-MAR and in CPOE. You should also use generic equivalent field if you have more than one trade name. For instance, I have Zestril,Prinivil in the trade name field and then Prinivil for a generic equivalent.






From: meditech-...@mtusers.com<mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com> [mailto:meditech-...@mtusers.com] On Behalf Of Patrick O'Donnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:09 PM
To: medit...@mtusers.com<mailto:medit...@mtusers.com>
Subject: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary



Hi

We are a c/s 5.65 site and are having discussions as to what we should populate in the TRADE NAME field of the drug dictionary.  Should it be populated with the trade name for ALL formulary items even if we only stock the generic equivalent or should it be left blank for those items that we only stock the generic equivalent of that drug??



Patrick J. O'Donnell, RPh

Cell: 570-926-9049


Provena Health

  <http://www.linkedin.com/companies/ctg>

[Miller, Jennifer F]

Thank goodness 6.1 is putting LSS into the MEDITECH HCIS so we’ll all be back to 1 set of unmanageable PHA and RXM Drug dictionaries!

 

But aside from that, heads up that for our CS 5.6.4 pp 21 sites we are having to get CS RXM 4587 because the free text names that were added to the PHA Drug dictionary are overwriting the FSV trade name that is loading into RXM.  So before making wholesale changes to the PHA trade names you might want to verify that isn’t affecting your RXM Drug dictionary during your FSV updates.  (We use Medispan but this seems to be vendor-blind)

 

 

**************

Message: 5

Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:56:56 -0500

From: david watson <dwat...@gmail.com>

To: medit...@mtusers.com

Subject: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

Message-ID:

      <CAP+v7PqBd+OC7WkOd3hG+kxf...@mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

From:        Charles Downs <Charle...@meritushealth.com>

5 W 1st Street, Ste 200 Duluth, MN 55802 http://www.sisunet.org/

Jennifer F Miller, Masters Training & Development Clinical Analyst ph: 218-529-7947 fax: 218-529-7920 jmil...@sisunet.org

 

 

 

 

 

[Charles Downs]

Somewhere along the line, we got a CDS on page 1 of RXM that tells us the GPC. I guess my analyst did this, but I believe that Meditech told him how to. I had asked Mark Donovan if it was possible also to see the FSV trade and generic name in a CDS but haven’t heard anything. We are FDB, and  they sent me a nice searchable spreadsheet with every drug on our CD. Maybe Medispan could do the same. The spreadsheet was especially helpful in identifying obsolete drugs, which hang out there for at least 3 years and also repackager NDC’s. Mark said that they are going to try to address the obsolete NDC issue as it creates a lot of duplicates. For instance Mylicon Drops is now obsolete and is now under  Infants’ Mylicon. And good luck to someone finding that (which is why we need a generic equivalent field in RXM)

Charlie

 

 

Charles Downs PharmD

Information Systems Pharmacist

Meritus Health, Inc.

11116 Medical Campus Road

Hagerstown, MD, 21742

301-790-8904

 

 

 

 

From: Griffin, Paul [mailto:PGri...@emersonhosp.org]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 9:23 AM
To: Jeff Lee; Ray Fernandez; RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com; Charles Downs
Subject: RE: [MT-L] Trade name field in drug dictionary

 

Hello fellow pharmacists (Ray, I know you are a pharmacy tech, but in IS, you are the same as the rest of us: Stuck with an inferior product that no one other than us will ever understand) L

 

We went LIVE with RXM on March 17th. To this day we are still having major issues. We have the old standby for our FSV (Medi-Span), which as we know is designed for community pharmacy doctored up for hospital pharmacy.

 

Anyhow, before I sound like a blogger on TAP, what’s the easiest way to identify a GPC for a particular medication? I have been using a variety of ways to do this, but if there’s a better way, please sound off!

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

 

p.s. Oh, we are MG 5.64 PP12.

 

P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this
email.

 

 

P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this
email.

 

[Donna_...@sshosp.org]

Good Morning All - KB article 35290 provides details on how to add the GPC to the RXM.DRUG CDS.  You actually have to edit each med and 'enter' through the field to pull in the code . . . quite a taxing process.

The MT Analyst also helped to pull the GPC into the PHA.DRUG CDS.  The attribute for the query is:

DFT=@p.PHA.FSV.gcn[@Last(PHA.FSV.run),@PHA.DRUG.ndc.din.number].  I hope this helps!!

After reading all the horror stories of RXM (and experiencing my own nightmares) I'm getting a bit nervous about what's going to happen when we do our next RXM FSV update (from FDB).

We are implementing eRx and the providers are none too happy about the drug dictionary.  To make the search easier for the providers, we are modifying the Generic Name field so they are consistent.  We remove reference to the salt (except where it makes clinical relevance) &/or add description of concentration/puff dose/etc.  Insulin syringes are very difficult for the providers to create eRx for.  They have no idea of the needle size.  We're thinking about a consistent way to add the relevant info to the generic name.

I'm getting the impression from some of the previous discussion that when we do the next update, additional (duplicate) entries will be added to the dictionary for the same NDC number because the generic name from the FDB file and the RXM.DRUG field does not match.  Does anyone know for sure if this is true?  If so, we're going to have to rethink whether we update the generic name or not. . . RXM is my worst nightmare!!

Any help (and words of wisdom) you can provide will be *much* appreciated!!

Thanks - DP


Donna Parker, RPh
Pharmacy Informatics Specialist
South Shore Hospital
55 Fogg Road
South Weymouth, MA  02190
Phone: 781-624-8810
e-Mail: Donna_...@sshosp.org
Web: www.southshorehospital.org

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[Charles Downs]

I don’t know if has been fixed or not, but if you change the generic name (e.g.: remove reference to the salt), it seems to sometimes create duplicate RXM entries.  I also saw this happen with 6x. I’ve asked Mark Donovan at Meditech if they could create an FSV trade field and generic field where the raw FSV names could be stored to avoid this, but have heard nothing further. I we had these two extra fields where the load would check and update these fields but protect our own fields, it should eliminate the problem. Also, it would be a good check to see what they use to replace and NDC as I’ve found discontinued NDC’s that have been replaced are sometimes replaced with an NDC with an entirely different trade name, sometimes resulting in the same NDC being used multiple times, when in fact that product has actually been discontinued.

[Chicoine, Doris J]

We are C/S 5.64 pp21 and there is no generic equivalent field.   : (

I have

*Trade Name

Brand Name

Generic

 

Filling in Brand name doesn't show in RXM prescription writing. 

Any C/S sites that know what I might be doing wrong?

 

Here's another RXM horror story for you all and I'm thanking heaven it affected only Test.  When we were moving forward to upgrading to 5.64, I was on surgical leave.  We had a consultant here who loaded the FDB info which is neither here nor there as he was sharp and I have no doubt he didn't do anything wrong.  In Test, it inactivated any prescription meds that were not on formulary, leaving us with only PHA-linked meds and OTCs and odd stuff like "Solvil Powder Sachet".  I was scared to death it was going to happen in Live.  They can't fix it.  I can't "play" in Test like I'd like to .  Updating with a new FDB disc does nothing.  Those things are inactivated forevermore. 

 

Doris

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From: meditech-...@mtusers.com on behalf of Charles Downs
Sent: Wed 5/16/2012 10:10 AM
To: Jeff Lee; RPlo...@stmarysmaine.com

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