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thisisragnar  
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 More options Apr 13 2008, 10:05 am
From: thisisragnar
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 07:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Apr 13 2008 10:05 am
Subject: Please remove unfair restrictions and threats.
Warning!
This is about "legal" issues, customers rights and obligations.
And also a bit long....

Can Google please remove what I consider unfair restrictions and
threats?

I have a problem with the "text of a page"
"Your request to invite .. new members has been flagged"

The interesting part is
".. Google takes a very dim view of Spam. The people you invite must
know you and be expecting your message. If they complain, you will be
banned from our service and your group will be deleted."

Yes, Google takes a strong stand against SPAM but I find it abusive
toward normal well intentioned users.

Am I a well intentioned user?
I was asked to set up a mailing list for people in my area that are
interested in raw-food. There is no formal organization or membership,
only some mail that gets sent and then forwarded in a very chaotic
manner. People are getting information late or not at all. A Google
Group would be useful, to say the least.

Now to my problem.
I was trying to send out invitations.

I got a page:

> Your request to invite 37 new members has been flagged
> for review by our staff.

(Is it because of the non english text in the group's description?)

It also says:

> The people you invite must know you

This is unreal. Persons managing groups often do not know all the
potential members personally but rather indirectly through a third
party or some affiliation / organization.
I am not comfortable with saying that I know someone when I don't.
I am doing this as a service to an informal group of about 200 people
and I do not know all of them.

> (The people you invite must) .. be expecting your message.

They are not all expecting an invitation to the list/group, they don't
yet know it exists. I would think that a letter informing people about
a list/group should include the option to join.

And then:

> If they complain, you will be banned from our service
> and your group will be deleted.

What?
This is not acceptable.
How can anyone guaranty that no one will complain?
I am certainly not willing to risk my gmail account to find out.

If for some reason a person would be displeased that I am sending them
an invitation, they are not informed that by reporting the "abuse"
they are killing my gmail account and the Google group.

Importantly there is no option in the invitation email to say "No
Thank You" (only "accept this invitation" "create Google Account" and
"this message is abuse").
Not even instructions to "Delete this message to do nothing"

In real life people do not read mail carefully. If they do not
understand they will delete the mail or choose some option like for
example "Unwanted". So for my target audience, that is not native
english speaking, I fear "false complaints".

What to do?

I recommend changing

> The people you invite must know you
> and be expecting your message.
and
> If they complain, you will be banned from our service
> and your group will be deleted

To something like:
You are only allowed to use a this service in a lawful and non abusive
way. Abusers accounts and groups of will be suspended or termianted.

An alternative could be to some how add the word affiliation to the
first part.  One could make the second part less threatening by saying
that complaints would initiate a SPAM review process ...

I dislike SPAM and other abusive behavior.
On the other hand the environment provided to the general public
should be free of unfair restrictions and obligations or threats.

Good lawyers can clearly articulate the customers rights without
taking away Googles tools in the fight against SPAM.

Can Google please fix this.


 
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Matt Graham  
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 More options Apr 22 2008, 11:34 am
From: Matt Graham
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Apr 22 2008 11:34 am
Subject: Re: Please remove unfair restrictions and threats.
Yes, google, please fix this message.

The following is far less constructive than the original post.
<rant>
This is a Microsoft-type interface.  I sent an invite to 4 people.
FOUR people!  And it got flagged for spam.  And, it's a stupid private
group.  It's not like I can sit around and wait for people to join the
private group.  I _HAVE_ to send invites.  And now google is sending
me crap about it and delaying the invites for 2 days?  I'm the only
one in there now, in my own little private group.  Yeah, that's useful
guys, thanks.
</rant>

On Apr 13, 10:05 am, thisisragnar wrote:


 
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Stephanie Booth  
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 More options May 1 2008, 6:02 am
From: Stephanie Booth
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 03:02:47 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, May 1 2008 6:02 am
Subject: Re: Please remove unfair restrictions and threats.
I agree -- the message is not very pleasant. I'm in the situation
where I'm trying to start a proper newsletter for an event I'm
organizing (perfectly legit: http://going-solo.net). I have a huge
network, loose lists of people who are interested in the event on
facebook, upcoming, blogs, etc. So, I'm compiling a list of all those
e-mail addresses to send these people an invite to the newsletter --
so they can sign up if they want.

Does a bit of "push" here make me a spammer? Clearly not.

However, I've now been flagged -- also because there was no warning...
had I known, I'd probably have taken steps to break down my list into
small groups that wouldn't have gotten flagged.

I also wish that there could be a "positive flag" -- ie, once google
has reviewed my case and decided that yes, indeed, I am not an evil
spammer, couldn't they lift the limit for which the flag is triggered?

It's a pain in the neck.

I'm going to have to end up sending e-mail to all these people from my
person account, asking them to go through the process of signing up,
rather than be able to make it simple for them.


 
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Stephanie Booth  
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 More options May 1 2008, 7:04 am
From: Stephanie Booth
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 04:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, May 1 2008 7:04 am
Subject: Re: Please remove unfair restrictions and threats.
I ended up blogging about this here:
http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2008/05/01/google-groups-pain-in-...

I really do hope this issue reaches the right people and something is
done about it.


 
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