VNA Highlights Tangible and Intangible Value Exchanges

[John Maloney]

Gartner, Inc. (NYSE: IT) is an information technology research and
advisory giant in Stamford, CT. Value networks and VNA are recurring
themes of their leading industry research and prognostications.

Here is their latest addition.

________________________________________
Value Network Analysis Highlights Tangible and Intangible Value
Exchanges

27 August 2008

This report describes value network analysis and how it can be used to
reveal critical value creation and exchange patterns among
organizations that need to work together to achieve their business
goals.

http://tinyurl.com/6k86ub

-or-

http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=g_search&id=748117


-j

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Thanks John that you spend time for the group.

Various methods can be which originate from the attempt to solve the
particular problems and therefore methods are secondary, I think.

It's good if the method covers the problem in its variety and allows
not only to solve it but to transform it into another reality - more
competitive, which itself is an award for different thinking.

Is there any survey of the managerial problems which are solved by the
particular methods and what are the problems which wait for their
solutions?

Nikolay

[Ricardo Andorinho]

thanks a lot for this powerful information!

Ricardo

--
Ricardo Andorinho
rando...@gmail.com

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Did you see this representation of problems with value (?):

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/15/business/20080916-treemap-graphic.html

I don't think that it is about the US economy only. And you?

How to define this problem and what methods are suitable here?

Is it a problem of 'network vs. hierarchy' or anything else?

Nikolay

> randori...@gmail.com

[Ricardo Andorinho]

This is a global problem. A agree with you.

What defines it, is the same that defines stock markets. Stock markets are a dangerous game for pure financial institutions. The liquidity is in the hands of few companies and individuals. The financial system is ruled by expectations. The owner of the stock assume decisions driven by the money he has in his pocket today, not tomorrow. Today the system can't breath... Injecting paper money into the economy doesn't fix the cause, just cures the consequence.

It is a problem of national and global responsibility inside financial systems.

Regrds,

Ricardo

--
Ricardo Andorinho
rando...@gmail.com

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

I think that the question of liquidity is not only in which hands it
is, but in the kind of liquidity. Or anything else about liquidity?

Regarding 'expectations'. It's a topic - where expectations come
from?

Funny, some time ago I wrote that there is no difference between
hierarchy and network because, for example, spiders's network is
hierarchy of concentric circles. I recollected that because as I can
see 'ideology of networks' does not add sense to what every one deals
with every day - money. I tried find the answer why?

http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/09/post-structuralism-as-reason-for.html

Maybe we have to consider the essence of 'liquidity' first of all? Any
ideas please?

Debatable reading for your thinking:

Only USD or EUR - oil relationship? (a dialogue with Ivo Cerckel)
http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/03/only-usd-or-eur-oil-relationship.html

M. Khazin "State of ideology in the world today: analytics and
forecast" (2004)
http://worldcrisis.ru/crisis/115983

The History of the “Money Changers”
http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm

The best way to avoid confrontation is not to use credit money for oil
trading
http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/05/best-way-to-avoid-confrontation-is-not.html

Nikolay

On Sep 21, 12:01 am, "Ricardo Andorinho" <randori...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a global problem. A agree with you.
> What defines it, is the same that defines stock markets. Stock markets are a
> dangerous game for pure financial institutions. The liquidity is in the
> hands of few companies and individuals. The financial system is ruled by
> expectations. The owner of the stock assume decisions driven by the money he
> has in his pocket today, not tomorrow. Today the system can't breath...
> Injecting paper money into the economy doesn't fix the cause, just cures the
> consequence.
>
> It is a problem of national and global responsibility inside financial
> systems.
>
> Regrds,
> Ricardo
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:
>
> > Did you see this representation of problems with value (?):
>

> >http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/15/business/20080916-treem...

> randori...@gmail.com

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Here is a story I would like to add:

Progenitor of the Paper Millionaires

http://eldoradogold.net/html/johnlaw.html

John (Beau) Law from Scotland from which name I started my
consideration of money

http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2006/10/knowledge-money-will-be-yours.html

The problem resides in this conclusion of the article about John Law:

"He had proved that the value of money is an agreement among people,
not an objective standard measurable in nuggets or ingots, a
distinction that fostered future stages of wealth creation".

What the value really values?

Nikolay

On Sep 21, 3:01 pm, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:
> I think that the question of liquidity is not only in which hands it
> is, but in the kind of liquidity. Or anything else about liquidity?
>
> Regarding 'expectations'. It's a topic - where expectations come
> from?
>
> Funny, some time ago I wrote that there is no difference between
> hierarchy and network because, for example, spiders's network is
> hierarchy of concentric circles. I recollected that because as I can
> see 'ideology of networks' does not add sense to what every one deals
> with every day - money. I tried find the answer why?
>

> http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/09/post-structuralism-as-rea...

>
> Maybe we have to consider the essence of 'liquidity' first of all? Any
> ideas please?
>
> Debatable reading for your thinking:
>

> Only USD or EUR - oil relationship? (a dialogue with Ivo Cerckel)http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/03/only-usd-or-eur-oil-relat...

>
> M. Khazin "State of ideology in the world today: analytics and

> forecast" (2004)http://worldcrisis.ru/crisis/115983

>
> The History of the “Money Changers”http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm
>
> The best way to avoid confrontation is not to use credit money for oil

> tradinghttp://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/05/best-way-to-avoid-confron...

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Hi,

the problem of some :) values (equivalent (money)) is in 'time'
concept, perhaps.

A concept of 'debt' refers to money OWED - to be under an obligation
to pay an amount of money to (someone).

If so, the question is how much time the obligation is valid and why?

In other words if you and your business partner have something really
valuable to exchange, the technology makes possible to close the deal
in seconds.

Materialization of time in gold, notes, bonds ... looks obsolete today
- like newspapers vs. Internet.

Or not?

And if 'debt' refers to 'sin' (1. the breaking of a religious or moral
law 2. any offence against a principle or standard), debts are under
the power which defines what the sins are, isn't it?

Unfortunately the Knowledge Management standardization failed.

Nikolay

On Sep 21, 7:59 pm, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:
> Here is a story I would like to add:
>
> Progenitor of the Paper Millionaires
>
> http://eldoradogold.net/html/johnlaw.html
>
> John (Beau) Law from Scotland from which name I started my
> consideration of money
>

> http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2006/10/knowledge-money-will-be-y...

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

I wrote the previous post after good running and listening John Lee
Hooker :))))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIvka3SSv9Y

Nikolay

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

>Unfortunately the Knowledge Management standardization failed.

because was paid by paper notes of zero value and therefore caused
zero value in exchange

Nikolay

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Thanks to John

http://groups.google.com/group/Value-Networks/browse_thread/thread/b1e0b1834d7cc1ed?hl=en

we can read

The Future of Capital
The Magazine of the Rotman School of Management / Fall 2008

http://valuenetworks.com/public/item/213168

"One of the most challenging questions for modern business people is,
“How can we convert intangible assets such as human knowledge,
internal structures, ways of working, reputation, and business
relationships into negotiable forms of value?”

Intangible assets are converted into value when, for example, an asset
such as ‘professional expertise’ is converted into another form of
value such as ‘consulting services.’ The conversion dynamic also
applies to value realization: when a tangible value input such as
‘purchased market intelligence reports’ is converted into a non-
financial knowledge asset of ‘increased levels of marketing
competency.’"

I think:

1. In order to negotiate you should have something needed by others.
2. Where is common VALUABLE denominator for measuring and converting
values?

Nikolay

[christopher macrae]

I have been working on intangibles valuation crisis for 19 years - when i was at main london office of Coopers & Lybrand and spotted the biggest maths error I have ever seen embedded in the separated-box (opposite of connecting flow) monopoly of metrics that tangibless acccounting is   Its important to realise that there are 2 opposite camps. those who are trying to force fit intangibles into the old accounting and old profession system ; and those who want a whole new book (-he leading network of that 2nd kind published unseen wealth reports (2000) in DC and did some work at http://euintangibles.net until its funding got withdrawn as we were asking too many questions that machine-oriented KM did not like   I was first briefed by the chairaldy of unseen wealth that brand experts had completely F***ed up intangibles in early 2001; she said go see if KM will do any better; by about 2004 people like sveiby and edvinnson were admitting human KM was dead in the sense that it had been hijacked by those who wanted computers not human knowhow to be invested in   if the other system round models of intangibles hed been used then Wall Street would not have lost all its 5 investment banks - 3 disappeared and 2 changing their constitution; andersen would not have disappeared; enron and exxon and worldcom et al would not have sponsored the white house; clean solar energy would be communally waving its good news; the world would be a happier place for humans where trust surveys were on the up and up instead of crashing down;   I dont see anything in the recent volley of mails that interests me much; verna allee could have moved to the other side but never wholly wanted to in te various conversations I had with her   the epicentre of the other side is now muhammad yunus and all the indian/bangladeshi/parisian microeconomics alumni networks around him;  http://www.smbaworld.com/id8.html   basically their microeconomics and collaborative approached to intangibles;  the other system round from top-down views; 25 years ago my father forecast this war of 2 different mindsets and its critical impact on whether we intergarted every locality into gloabisation fairly or not   http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html#Anchor-Changin-27687   perhaps we need a knowledge person 2.0 to explore other way round maps - see eg http://changeworld.net to decide whether these contexts matter to you   chris macrae http://microprosummit.com --- On Tue, 23/9/08, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Yes, I remember their snobbery at knowledgeboard.com. An opportunity
to discuss valuations is missed because there was a time frame for
that. They thought about expansion of empty KM - a zone for Russians
(I protested saying that 'zone' is not for Russians and Russians did
not come there as far as I know), that Russia is Eastern Europe
(illiteracy and absurd). They called me from Germany for 40 min
conversation in Russian, but seems understood nothing ...

So, I respect Chris for his attempts to attract attention to the
crisis, but I disagree with:

1. the concept of "error";
2. the current discussions about intangible valuation BEFORE clear
understanding MONEY DESIGNS (debt based and other for making choice
that means true freedom, not declaration);
3. that some institutions could finance something beyond their
monopolistic practice.

Knowledge Person x.0 is being discussed in Russia because of huge
Russian space and global meaning of knowledge business (big and small,
tangible and intangible). It is nor easy for variuos reasons including
second hand management/marketing/branding wide spread infection and
people usually keep silence as you can see

Nikolay

On Sep 23, 4:09 pm, christopher macrae <chris.mac...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> I have been working on intangibles valuation crisis for 19 years - when i was at main london office of Coopers & Lybrand and spotted the biggest maths error I have ever seen embedded in the separated-box (opposite of connecting flow) monopoly of metrics that tangibless acccounting is
>  

> Its important to realise that there are 2 opposite camps. those who are trying to force fit intangibles into the old accounting and old profession system ; and those who want a whole new book (-he leading network of that 2nd kind published unseen wealth reports (2000) in DC and did some work athttp://euintangibles.netuntil its funding got withdrawn as we were asking too many questions that machine-oriented KM did not like

>  
> I was first briefed by the chairaldy of unseen wealth that brand experts had completely F***ed up intangibles in early 2001; she said go see if KM will do any better; by about 2004 people like sveiby and edvinnson were admitting human KM was dead in the sense that it had been hijacked by those who wanted computers not human knowhow to be invested in
>  
> if the other system round models of intangibles hed been used then Wall Street would not have lost all its 5 investment banks - 3 disappeared and 2 changing their constitution; andersen would not have disappeared; enron and exxon and worldcom et al would not have sponsored the white house; clean solar energy would be communally waving its good news; the world would be a happier place for humans where trust surveys were on the up and up instead of crashing down;
>  
> I dont see anything in the recent volley of mails that interests me much; verna allee could have moved to the other side but never wholly wanted to in te various conversations I had with her
>  
> the epicentre of the other side is now muhammad yunus and all the indian/bangladeshi/parisian microeconomics alumni networks around him; http://www.smbaworld.com/id8.html
>  
> basically their microeconomics and collaborative approached to intangibles;  the other system round from top-down views; 25 years ago my father forecast this war of 2 different mindsets and its critical impact on whether we intergarted every locality into gloabisation fairly or not
>  http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html#Anchor-Changin-27687
>  

> perhaps we need a knowledge person 2.0 to explore other way round maps - see eghttp://changeworld.netto decide whether these contexts matter to you
>  
> chris macraehttp://microprosummit.com

>
> --- On Tue, 23/9/08, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:
>
> From: Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru>
> Subject: [Knowledge Persons] Re: VNA Highlights Tangible and Intangible Value Exchanges
> To: "KnowledgePersons" <Knowledg...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, 23 September, 2008, 11:17 AM
>
> Thanks to John
>

> http://groups.google.com/group/Value-Networks/browse_thread/thread/b1...

> ...
>
> read more »

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

But maybe there is a variant that crisis is pumping money out for
pumping in a new global debt machine? Who cares about humanity?

Nikolay

> > Its important to realise that there are 2 opposite camps. those who are trying to force fit intangibles into the old accounting and old profession system ; and those who want a whole new book (-he leading network of that 2nd kind published unseen wealth reports (2000) in DC and did some work athttp://euintangibles.netuntilits funding got withdrawn as we were asking too many questions that machine-oriented KM did not like

> >  
> > I was first briefed by the chairaldy of unseen wealth that brand experts had completely F***ed up intangibles in early 2001; she said go see if KM will do any better; by about 2004 people like sveiby and edvinnson were admitting human KM was dead in the sense that it had been hijacked by those who wanted computers not human knowhow to be invested in
> >  
> > if the other system round models of intangibles hed been used then Wall Street would not have lost all its 5 investment banks - 3 disappeared and 2 changing their constitution; andersen would not have disappeared; enron and exxon and worldcom et al would not have sponsored the white house; clean solar energy would be communally waving its good news; the world would be a happier place for humans where trust surveys were on the up and up instead of crashing down;
> >  
> > I dont see anything in the recent volley of mails that interests me much; verna allee could have moved to the other side but never wholly wanted to in te various conversations I had with her
> >  
> > the epicentre of the other side is now muhammad yunus and all the indian/bangladeshi/parisian microeconomics alumni networks around him; http://www.smbaworld.com/id8.html
> >  
> > basically their microeconomics and collaborative approached to intangibles;  the other system round from top-down views; 25 years ago my father forecast this war of 2 different mindsets and its critical impact on whether we intergarted every locality into gloabisation fairly or not
> >  http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html#Anchor-Changin-27687
> >  

> > perhaps we need a knowledge person 2.0 to explore other way round maps - see eghttp://changeworld.nettodecide whether these contexts matter to you

> ...
>
> read more »

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Enlarging Security Council essential to defeating global crises,
France tells UN

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=28176&Cr=General%20Assembly&Cr1=Debate

G14. Everybody should pay for reform?

Nikolay

> > > Its important to realise that there are 2 opposite camps. those who are trying to force fit intangibles into the old accounting and old profession system ; and those who want a whole new book (-he leading network of that 2nd kind published unseen wealth reports (2000) in DC and did some work athttp://euintangibles.netuntilitsfunding got withdrawn as we were asking too many questions that machine-oriented KM did not like

> > >  
> > > I was first briefed by the chairaldy of unseen wealth that brand experts had completely F***ed up intangibles in early 2001; she said go see if KM will do any better; by about 2004 people like sveiby and edvinnson were admitting human KM was dead in the sense that it had been hijacked by those who wanted computers not human knowhow to be invested in
> > >  
> > > if the other system round models of intangibles hed been used then Wall Street would not have lost all its 5 investment banks - 3 disappeared and 2 changing their constitution; andersen would not have disappeared; enron and exxon and worldcom et al would not have sponsored the white house; clean solar energy would be communally waving its good news; the world would be a happier place for humans where trust surveys were on the up and up instead of crashing down;
> > >  
> > > I dont see anything in the recent volley of mails that interests me much; verna allee could have moved to the other side but never wholly wanted to in te various conversations I had with her
> > >  
> > > the epicentre of the other side is now muhammad yunus and all the indian/bangladeshi/parisian microeconomics alumni networks around him; http://www.smbaworld.com/id8.html
> > >  
> > > basically their microeconomics and collaborative approached to intangibles;  the other system round from top-down views; 25 years ago my father forecast this war of 2 different mindsets and its critical impact on whether we intergarted every locality into gloabisation fairly or not
> > >  http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html#Anchor-Changin-27687
> > >  

> > > perhaps we need a knowledge person 2.0 to explore other way round maps - see eghttp://changeworld.nettodecidewhether these contexts matter to you

> ...
>
> read more »

[christopher macrae]

It may be a problem of language but if you are not prepared to look at how systems are measured - and stand up when they are wrongly measured -then sheer evil can be the only consequence- loss of humsn sustainability will doubtless follow because the big currently sponsor measures and fewer and fewer peope'es voices are included in the way the world's largest organsiational systemsa re run   it remains a fact that tangible accounting treats machines as investments, people as costs to cut - this 'error" at least in any buisness where people knowhow matters compounds investments that unnecessarily destroy jobs for people, and devalues much of the value that a knowledge era could map above zero sum   chris macrae http://www.smbaworld.com

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

All have the same ERROR? Really? It's the system.

Take a look at

http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2008/02/zero-investments.html

Nikolay

On Sep 23, 9:53 pm, christopher macrae <chris.mac...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> It may be a problem of language but if you are not prepared to look at how systems are measured - and stand up when they are wrongly measured -then sheer evil can be the only consequence- loss of humsn sustainability will doubtless follow because the big currently sponsor measures and fewer and fewer peope'es voices are included in the way the world's largest organsiational systemsa re run
>  
> it remains a fact that tangible accounting treats machines as investments, people as costs to cut - this 'error" at least in any buisness where people knowhow matters compounds investments that unnecessarily destroy jobs for people, and devalues much of the value that a knowledge era could map above zero sum
>  

> chris macraehttp://www.smbaworld.com

> athttp://euintangibles.netuntilits funding got withdrawn as we were asking too

> many questions that machine-oriented KM did not like>  
> > I was first briefed by the chairaldy of unseen wealth that brand experts
>
> had completely F***ed up intangibles in early 2001; she said go see if KM will
> do any better; by about 2004 people like sveiby and edvinnson were admitting
> human KM was dead in the sense that it had been hijacked by those who wanted
> computers not human knowhow to be invested in>  
> > if the other system round models of intangibles hed been used then Wall
>
> Street would not have lost all its 5 investment banks - 3 disappeared and 2
> changing their constitution; andersen would not have disappeared; enron and
> exxon and worldcom et al would not have sponsored the white house; clean solar
> energy would be communally waving its good news; the world would be a happier
> place for humans where trust surveys were on the up and up instead of crashing
> down;>  
> > I dont see anything in the recent volley of mails that interests me much;
>
> verna allee could have moved to the other side but never wholly wanted to in te
> various conversations I had with her>  
> > the epicentre of the other side is now muhammad yunus and all the
>
> indian/bangladeshi/parisian microeconomics alumni networks around
> him; http://www.smbaworld.com/id8.html>  
> > basically their microeconomics and collaborative approached to
>
> intangibles;  the other system round from top-down views; 25 years ago my
> father forecast this war of 2 different mindsets and its critical impact on
> whether we intergarted every locality into gloabisation fairly or not>  http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html#Anchor-Changin-27687
> >  
> > perhaps we need a knowledge person 2.0 to explore other way round maps -
>

> see eghttp://changeworld.nettodecide whether these contexts matter to you

> ...
>
> read more »

[Nikolay Kryachkov]

Hi,

in my understanding a subject of disagreement is:

Chris thinks that measuring is incorrect.

I think that measuring instrument (money) is incorrect.

The thrill is gone :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw

Have a good day!

Nikolay

> > athttp://euintangibles.netuntilitsfunding got withdrawn as we were asking too

> > many questions that machine-oriented KM did not like>  
> > > I was first briefed by the chairaldy of unseen wealth that brand experts
>
> > had completely F***ed up intangibles in early 2001; she said go see if KM will
> > do any better; by about 2004 people like sveiby and edvinnson were admitting
> > human KM was dead in the sense that it had been hijacked by those who wanted
> > computers not human knowhow to be invested in>  
> > > if the other system round models of intangibles hed been used then Wall
>
> > Street would not have lost all its 5 investment banks - 3 disappeared and 2
> > changing their constitution; andersen would not have disappeared; enron and
> > exxon and worldcom et al would not have sponsored the white house; clean solar
> > energy would be communally waving its good news; the world would be a happier
> > place for humans where trust surveys were on the up and up instead of crashing
> > down;>  
> > > I dont see anything in the recent volley of mails that interests me much;
>
> > verna allee could have moved to the other side but never wholly wanted to in te
> > various conversations I had with her>  
> > > the epicentre of the other side is now muhammad yunus and all the
>
> > indian/bangladeshi/parisian microeconomics alumni networks around
> > him; http://www.smbaworld.com/id8.html>  
> > > basically their microeconomics and collaborative approached to
>
> > intangibles;  the other system round from top-down views; 25 years ago my
> > father forecast this war of 2 different mindsets and its critical impact on
> > whether we intergarted every locality into gloabisation fairly or not>  http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html#Anchor-Changin-27687
> > >  
> > > perhaps we need a knowledge person 2.0 to explore other way round maps -
>

> > see eghttp://changeworld.nettodecidewhether these contexts matter to you

> ...
>
> read more »