Bankers, loans and networks in knowledge economy
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Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 27, 2009, 6:57:18 AM3/27/09
to KnowledgePersons
In the age of networks and transparency people can connect each other
and form local and global projects. It means instead of purchasing
what is needed for projects and going to bankers for loans people can
use natural investments (materials, equipment and knowledge) and share
results according to agreement.
Why bankers and loans are needed in that case and still connect people
non-transparently?
Nikolay
and form local and global projects. It means instead of purchasing
what is needed for projects and going to bankers for loans people can
use natural investments (materials, equipment and knowledge) and share
results according to agreement.
Why bankers and loans are needed in that case and still connect people
non-transparently?
Nikolay
Cristi Baz
Mar 27, 2009, 7:58:09 AM3/27/09
to Knowledg...@googlegroups.com
Please unsubscribe be from din group. Thank you.
Carlos Rodríguez Artacho
Mar 27, 2009, 8:12:56 AM3/27/09
to Knowledg...@googlegroups.com
Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 27, 2009, 8:17:18 AM3/27/09
to KnowledgePersons
Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 27, 2009, 10:21:13 AM3/27/09
to KnowledgePersons
Do not change the subject if you want to unsubscribe. Thanks :)
Nikolay
Nikolay
Benoit
Mar 28, 2009, 8:36:58 AM3/28/09
to KnowledgePersons
A colleague gave a lecture recently, which touches on various ways to
view economic activities.
2009 Middle East Festival Lecture on Global Affairs
My opinion regarding "bankers and loans are needed in that case and
still connect people non-transparently" is that it will cause people
to increasingly rise against the machine through protest, which will
turn to riots in many places and that will be the excuse needed by the
various "power clubs" to suspend "rights and freedoms" where they
exist.
Where rights and freedom do not exist, corruption and oppression will
go on ruling.
Benoit
view economic activities.
2009 Middle East Festival Lecture on Global Affairs
My opinion regarding "bankers and loans are needed in that case and
still connect people non-transparently" is that it will cause people
to increasingly rise against the machine through protest, which will
turn to riots in many places and that will be the excuse needed by the
various "power clubs" to suspend "rights and freedoms" where they
exist.
Where rights and freedom do not exist, corruption and oppression will
go on ruling.
Benoit
Benoit
Mar 28, 2009, 9:14:24 AM3/28/09
to KnowledgePersons
Oups!
To see my colleague's lecture go to:
http://groups.tigweb.org/AVHY/documents/
and click on:
> > Nikolay- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
To see my colleague's lecture go to:
http://groups.tigweb.org/AVHY/documents/
and click on:
2009 Middle East Festival Lecture on Global Affairs
Benoit
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 28, 2009, 1:25:52 PM3/28/09
to KnowledgePersons
I did not said: "bankers and loans are needed in that case and still
connect people non-transparently". I said: "Why bankers and loans are
near it money investments is riot?
Regarding the lecture. How smoothly it takes away from truth! I am not
going to consider that lecture in details, but one point is remarkable
- money as token. Yes money is token now, but money can have real
value, not only token of value (rice money is one of the possibilities
http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post.html ).
Once you have token of value, someone has that value itself and with
love :)
Nikolay
connect people non-transparently". I said: "Why bankers and loans are
needed in that case and still connect people non-transparently? "
Forming projects as I had said before and doing business with zero or
near it money investments is riot?
Regarding the lecture. How smoothly it takes away from truth! I am not
going to consider that lecture in details, but one point is remarkable
- money as token. Yes money is token now, but money can have real
value, not only token of value (rice money is one of the possibilities
http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post.html ).
Once you have token of value, someone has that value itself and with
love :)
Nikolay
Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 28, 2009, 1:52:10 PM3/28/09
to KnowledgePersons
All You Need Is Love - The Beatles
"The BBC had commissioned The Beatles to write a song for the UK's
contribution and this was the result"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo
Enjoy! :)
Nikolay
"The BBC had commissioned The Beatles to write a song for the UK's
contribution and this was the result"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo
Enjoy! :)
Nikolay
Benoit
Mar 28, 2009, 5:54:29 PM3/28/09
to KnowledgePersons
Yes, and it is interesting that the Beatles song "All you need is
love" begins with the tune of the French natioal anthem. The French
are the symbol of all that the British have despised and hated, being
at war on and off for 8 centuries before working together to build
Canada.
It was a very good choice to help love where needed most.
Regarding the lecture, it points out to other forms of trading than
the one that finds itself in the present world wide crisis.
It does not point to theories alone, but to their practice as well.
Benoit
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
love" begins with the tune of the French natioal anthem. The French
are the symbol of all that the British have despised and hated, being
at war on and off for 8 centuries before working together to build
Canada.
It was a very good choice to help love where needed most.
Regarding the lecture, it points out to other forms of trading than
the one that finds itself in the present world wide crisis.
It does not point to theories alone, but to their practice as well.
Benoit
Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 29, 2009, 2:47:03 AM3/29/09
to KnowledgePersons
I have very practical question - Why bankers and loans are needed in
share them, reduce unemployment and dependence on money investments.
But news headlines are about saving the bankers, not about simple
project management for everyone especially when we have Internet and
social networks.
Regarding "All you need is love". It was 1967 - time of crisis which
was postponed by the Vietnam war
John Lennon - Christmas (War is Over) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8DSyCO0Qg
The Vietnam War and Protests http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkASbgMA1FI
and monetary system, which took modern features. Soviet bureaucrats
refused to take responsibility and reconstruct global finance not for
interest but for exchange and the SU had collapsed over time. Who is
responsible today and who will pay?
I started from a simple solution even within current monetary system,
but many people tend to switch off the brain when see the word
"bank" :) Why?
Also do consider a reaction from Value Networks
http://groups.google.com/group/Value-Networks/browse_thread/thread/9d60421431e1cdd5
Nikolay
that case and still connect people
non-transparently? Today people can shift expenses into results to
share them, reduce unemployment and dependence on money investments.
But news headlines are about saving the bankers, not about simple
project management for everyone especially when we have Internet and
social networks.
Regarding "All you need is love". It was 1967 - time of crisis which
was postponed by the Vietnam war
John Lennon - Christmas (War is Over) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8DSyCO0Qg
The Vietnam War and Protests http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkASbgMA1FI
and monetary system, which took modern features. Soviet bureaucrats
refused to take responsibility and reconstruct global finance not for
interest but for exchange and the SU had collapsed over time. Who is
responsible today and who will pay?
I started from a simple solution even within current monetary system,
but many people tend to switch off the brain when see the word
"bank" :) Why?
Also do consider a reaction from Value Networks
http://groups.google.com/group/Value-Networks/browse_thread/thread/9d60421431e1cdd5
Nikolay
Benoit
Mar 29, 2009, 10:02:53 AM3/29/09
to KnowledgePersons
Not much of a reaction from Value-Networks to your question; directly
that is.
I've noticed in that group, that sometimes there is no direct reply
and instead, they open up another subject or esle, they'll carry on in
an ongoing discussion, including the answer to my/your isolated
post.
I had several examples of that myself. It is as if my question and/or
statement is worth an answer but not a discussion.
Regarding your question, here is what I think is a relpy that was
given to someone else in another discussion, but which includes an
answer to your question:
John Maloney wrote:
"I screamed bloody murder when banks and investment banks were able to
float in the capital markets. It is crazy! This recipe for disaster
was cooked up and really implemented in the 1990s. Goldman’s 1999 IPO
was the height of insanity."
Such answer seems to say that banks have no business in capital
markets.
To me, this is foreign language, no matter how I understand the
words. But to you, I think that such an answer adresses your
question, along with other statements and posts. You can look at the
whole post from John at:
http://groups.google.ca/group/Value-Networks/msg/4ffa76b198b16982
Myself, I agree with your position of collaboration based on agreement
by all for all, but obviously and unfortunately, the powers that be
are still working to keep their power and to gain more and more of it.
One very good idea I heard regarding the bail out of the car industry
of Amirica was:
"Why aren't the car companies like GM and Chrysler ask for loans from
the oil industry? These companies still make huge profits and they
depend on each other to do business."
To me, the simple answer to such question is that as long as
capitalism and democracy go on to mean the same thing, then the
taxpayer will go on paying for the proviledge to be at the top of the
food-chain!
In the mean time, while taxpayers keep capitalists safe in democracies
with the Rule of Law, the rest of the world goes on being ruled with
regimes of oppression and torture to protect their versions of
capitalists.
People of plain common sense will just have to wait for the leaders of
global capitalism to figure out how to keep the control over the
world's initiatives, such as what the Internet offers, and release
support for them as they see fit. As some say, it is the nature of
the beast.
In the sense of a possible future of real fairness with capitalism, I
see great possibilities energing from ventures such as Value-Network-
Analysis and hopefully, Prediction Markets as well from individuals
like yourself, who keep on asking the questions that are relevant to
real progress.
Keep up the good work!
Benoit
On Mar 29, 12:47 am, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:
> I have very practical question - Why bankers and loans are needed in
> that case and still connect people
> non-transparently? Today people can shift expenses into results to
> share them, reduce unemployment and dependence on money investments.
> But news headlines are about saving the bankers, not about simple
> project management for everyone especially when we have Internet and
> social networks.
>
> Regarding "All you need is love". It was 1967 - time of crisis which
> was postponed by the Vietnam war
>
> John Lennon - Christmas (War is Over) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8DSyCO0Qg
>
> The Vietnam War and Protests http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkASbgMA1FI
>
> and monetary system, which took modern features. Soviet bureaucrats
> refused to take responsibility and reconstruct global finance not for
> interest but for exchange and the SU had collapsed over time. Who is
> responsible today and who will pay?
>
> I started from a simple solution even within current monetary system,
> but many people tend to switch off the brain when see the word
> "bank" :) Why?
>
> Also do consider a reaction from Value Networks
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/Value-Networks/browse_thread/thread/9d...
that is.
I've noticed in that group, that sometimes there is no direct reply
and instead, they open up another subject or esle, they'll carry on in
an ongoing discussion, including the answer to my/your isolated
post.
I had several examples of that myself. It is as if my question and/or
statement is worth an answer but not a discussion.
Regarding your question, here is what I think is a relpy that was
given to someone else in another discussion, but which includes an
answer to your question:
John Maloney wrote:
"I screamed bloody murder when banks and investment banks were able to
float in the capital markets. It is crazy! This recipe for disaster
was cooked up and really implemented in the 1990s. Goldman’s 1999 IPO
was the height of insanity."
Such answer seems to say that banks have no business in capital
markets.
To me, this is foreign language, no matter how I understand the
words. But to you, I think that such an answer adresses your
question, along with other statements and posts. You can look at the
whole post from John at:
http://groups.google.ca/group/Value-Networks/msg/4ffa76b198b16982
Myself, I agree with your position of collaboration based on agreement
by all for all, but obviously and unfortunately, the powers that be
are still working to keep their power and to gain more and more of it.
One very good idea I heard regarding the bail out of the car industry
of Amirica was:
"Why aren't the car companies like GM and Chrysler ask for loans from
the oil industry? These companies still make huge profits and they
depend on each other to do business."
To me, the simple answer to such question is that as long as
capitalism and democracy go on to mean the same thing, then the
taxpayer will go on paying for the proviledge to be at the top of the
food-chain!
In the mean time, while taxpayers keep capitalists safe in democracies
with the Rule of Law, the rest of the world goes on being ruled with
regimes of oppression and torture to protect their versions of
capitalists.
People of plain common sense will just have to wait for the leaders of
global capitalism to figure out how to keep the control over the
world's initiatives, such as what the Internet offers, and release
support for them as they see fit. As some say, it is the nature of
the beast.
In the sense of a possible future of real fairness with capitalism, I
see great possibilities energing from ventures such as Value-Network-
Analysis and hopefully, Prediction Markets as well from individuals
like yourself, who keep on asking the questions that are relevant to
real progress.
Keep up the good work!
Benoit
On Mar 29, 12:47 am, Nikolay Kryachkov <nk...@mail.ru> wrote:
> I have very practical question - Why bankers and loans are needed in
> that case and still connect people
> non-transparently? Today people can shift expenses into results to
> share them, reduce unemployment and dependence on money investments.
> But news headlines are about saving the bankers, not about simple
> project management for everyone especially when we have Internet and
> social networks.
>
> Regarding "All you need is love". It was 1967 - time of crisis which
> was postponed by the Vietnam war
>
> John Lennon - Christmas (War is Over) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8DSyCO0Qg
>
> The Vietnam War and Protests http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkASbgMA1FI
>
> and monetary system, which took modern features. Soviet bureaucrats
> refused to take responsibility and reconstruct global finance not for
> interest but for exchange and the SU had collapsed over time. Who is
> responsible today and who will pay?
>
> I started from a simple solution even within current monetary system,
> but many people tend to switch off the brain when see the word
> "bank" :) Why?
>
> Also do consider a reaction from Value Networks
>
Nikolay Kryachkov
Mar 30, 2009, 1:47:10 PM3/30/09
to KnowledgePersons
A note about "food-chain" :) from Russia.
"In the animal world we have seen that the vast majority of species
live in societies, and that they find in association the best arms for
the struggle for life: understood, of course, in its wide Darwinian
sense -- not as a struggle for the sheer means of existence, but as a
struggle against all natural conditions unfavourable to the species.
The animal species, in which individual struggle has been reduced to
its narrowest limits, and the practice of mutual aid has attained the
greatest development, are invariably the most numerous, the most
prosperous, and the most open to further progress. The mutual
protection which is obtained in this case, the possibility of
attaining old age and of accumulating experience, the higher
intellectual development, and the further growth of sociable habits,
secure the maintenance of the species, its extension, and its further
progressive evolution. The unsociable species, on the contrary, are
doomed to decay".
(Prince Peter Kropotkin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kropotkin
, Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (1902), Conclusion.)
though Kropotkin was an anarchist.
Oddly, intengibles become a parallel entity and not an attribute of
tangibles. Knowledge about knowledge about knowledge ... and no
tangible entity in the end of this chain. It is like in modern finance
and debt chain with dogma of sin in the end or its beginning. It can't
be cured because what is good for some religion was being transmitted
into banking and pyramid money - "in God we trust" (sin is needed).
But permanent growth of sin is impossible in the limited space of the
Earth. The same was with permanent revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution
Therefore I don't think that capitalism will sustain as well as its
more centralized reflection did not sustain - the Soviet style
socialism. A solution is somewhere in the middle - between market and
plan http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post_14.html
Nikolay
"In the animal world we have seen that the vast majority of species
live in societies, and that they find in association the best arms for
the struggle for life: understood, of course, in its wide Darwinian
sense -- not as a struggle for the sheer means of existence, but as a
struggle against all natural conditions unfavourable to the species.
The animal species, in which individual struggle has been reduced to
its narrowest limits, and the practice of mutual aid has attained the
greatest development, are invariably the most numerous, the most
prosperous, and the most open to further progress. The mutual
protection which is obtained in this case, the possibility of
attaining old age and of accumulating experience, the higher
intellectual development, and the further growth of sociable habits,
secure the maintenance of the species, its extension, and its further
progressive evolution. The unsociable species, on the contrary, are
doomed to decay".
(Prince Peter Kropotkin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kropotkin
, Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (1902), Conclusion.)
though Kropotkin was an anarchist.
Oddly, intengibles become a parallel entity and not an attribute of
tangibles. Knowledge about knowledge about knowledge ... and no
tangible entity in the end of this chain. It is like in modern finance
and debt chain with dogma of sin in the end or its beginning. It can't
be cured because what is good for some religion was being transmitted
into banking and pyramid money - "in God we trust" (sin is needed).
But permanent growth of sin is impossible in the limited space of the
Earth. The same was with permanent revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution
Therefore I don't think that capitalism will sustain as well as its
more centralized reflection did not sustain - the Soviet style
socialism. A solution is somewhere in the middle - between market and
plan http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post_14.html
Nikolay
Benoit
Mar 31, 2009, 7:39:09 AM3/31/09
to KnowledgePersons
The note about the food-chain is a good way to describe humans who
live within the limits of survival (tangibles) without bothering with
the need to be subjected to "all you need is love" (intangibles).
When it comes to the nature of human existance,
1- ...there is the way things are, as you wrote:
" It is like in modern finance and debt chain with dogma of sin in the
end or its beginning. It can't be cured because what is good for some
religion was being transmitted into banking and pyramid money - "in
God we trust" (sin is needed)."
When you write about "the dogma of sin", this is very true. By being
treated as a dogma, then the meaning has been so misused, abused and
confused, that it has become twisted into conveying guilt and
condemnation, instead of pointing to the simple condition of human
nature.
Most New-Testament versions in French and English are translated from
the ancient Greek. When an archer missed the mark or the target, the
Greek word being used was "sin".
2- ...there is the way things could and should be (which turns sin
into dogma) and remain defeated, as you describe in writing
"Oddly, intengibles become a parallel entity and not an attribute of
tangibles. Knowledge about knowledge about knowledge ... and no
tangible entity in the end of this chain."
3-...and then, there is the way things are becoming.
When used dogma-free, sin is the nature that we are all born with from
our parents.
That is why the becoming is for those who are given the second nature
which is subjected to "all you need is love" because the law of the
Spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin and death.
“The first man Adam became a living being.”The last Adam became a life-
giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural,
and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of
dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust,
so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so
also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of
the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man."
Between market and plan, there is the option to obey love or not to
obey love. If we obey love, then the intangibles become the source
and the aim of the tangibles.
But trying to subject love to tangibles or to make intangibles into a
parallel entity does as you say and repeats nearly 2000 years of
christian power tripping, oppression and enslavement in the name of
God.
When Mr. George W. Bush was first elected, I wrote and sent the
following as far and wide as I could in order to address the "pyramid
of money" that you mentioned, with:
”Mr. Bush, you now stand on the threshold of the crossroad, where in
the one direction, you will go on helping America and the market
economy to fuel the fire of mortal appetites in the bush of the great
prostitute, or, in the other direction, you can stand before God until
He ignites you into His Presence by His Word and brings you to
experience the New Covenant’s burning bush.
There, His Spirit enables His children to know Him, His will and His
instructions for any questions we might have.
By such stand of His people, Yahweigh (or any name by which you relate
to Life-Force) gets to demonstrate His victory lane!
Americans and the entire world population need to follow the lead
driven by the powerful Spirit of love and of wisdom, to show us how to
overcome evil from the inner justice He gives, with the peace He grows
from within each one and by His joy to strengthen us in our journey.
The alpha and omega of decision making reside there. No human can love
his enemy, bless those who curse them, to do good to those who hate
them nor to pray for those who mistreat and persecute them, except for
the individuals who live by the life you claim to live by, and for
that, the Lord of Life of Justice and of Peace does not need our
weapons, but rather, our obedience.
The image you try to project to the world from the start of your
Presidency, Mr. Bush, is one opportunity granted like never before by
the Creator to you and to the entire Christianity on Earth, to bow to
the Spirit of all prophecies…the testimony of Jesus-Christ amongst His
creation!!!
May God give the man you are, to grow into the janitor He and we need,
to clean up the vision of America’s Presidency, in view of
the global freedom of individual liberty…amen!
For the whole message, see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A4305098
Benoit Couture
Edmonton, Canada
Ps: I apologise for not understanding your last link as I dont
understand how to read Russian.
> Earth. The same was with permanent revolutionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
live within the limits of survival (tangibles) without bothering with
the need to be subjected to "all you need is love" (intangibles).
When it comes to the nature of human existance,
1- ...there is the way things are, as you wrote:
" It is like in modern finance and debt chain with dogma of sin in the
end or its beginning. It can't be cured because what is good for some
religion was being transmitted into banking and pyramid money - "in
God we trust" (sin is needed)."
treated as a dogma, then the meaning has been so misused, abused and
confused, that it has become twisted into conveying guilt and
condemnation, instead of pointing to the simple condition of human
nature.
Most New-Testament versions in French and English are translated from
the ancient Greek. When an archer missed the mark or the target, the
Greek word being used was "sin".
2- ...there is the way things could and should be (which turns sin
into dogma) and remain defeated, as you describe in writing
"Oddly, intengibles become a parallel entity and not an attribute of
tangibles. Knowledge about knowledge about knowledge ... and no
tangible entity in the end of this chain."
When used dogma-free, sin is the nature that we are all born with from
our parents.
That is why the becoming is for those who are given the second nature
which is subjected to "all you need is love" because the law of the
Spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin and death.
“The first man Adam became a living being.”The last Adam became a life-
giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural,
and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of
dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust,
so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so
also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of
the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man."
Between market and plan, there is the option to obey love or not to
obey love. If we obey love, then the intangibles become the source
and the aim of the tangibles.
But trying to subject love to tangibles or to make intangibles into a
parallel entity does as you say and repeats nearly 2000 years of
christian power tripping, oppression and enslavement in the name of
God.
When Mr. George W. Bush was first elected, I wrote and sent the
following as far and wide as I could in order to address the "pyramid
of money" that you mentioned, with:
”Mr. Bush, you now stand on the threshold of the crossroad, where in
the one direction, you will go on helping America and the market
economy to fuel the fire of mortal appetites in the bush of the great
prostitute, or, in the other direction, you can stand before God until
He ignites you into His Presence by His Word and brings you to
experience the New Covenant’s burning bush.
There, His Spirit enables His children to know Him, His will and His
instructions for any questions we might have.
By such stand of His people, Yahweigh (or any name by which you relate
to Life-Force) gets to demonstrate His victory lane!
Americans and the entire world population need to follow the lead
driven by the powerful Spirit of love and of wisdom, to show us how to
overcome evil from the inner justice He gives, with the peace He grows
from within each one and by His joy to strengthen us in our journey.
The alpha and omega of decision making reside there. No human can love
his enemy, bless those who curse them, to do good to those who hate
them nor to pray for those who mistreat and persecute them, except for
the individuals who live by the life you claim to live by, and for
that, the Lord of Life of Justice and of Peace does not need our
weapons, but rather, our obedience.
The image you try to project to the world from the start of your
Presidency, Mr. Bush, is one opportunity granted like never before by
the Creator to you and to the entire Christianity on Earth, to bow to
the Spirit of all prophecies…the testimony of Jesus-Christ amongst His
creation!!!
May God give the man you are, to grow into the janitor He and we need,
to clean up the vision of America’s Presidency, in view of
the global freedom of individual liberty…amen!
For the whole message, see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A4305098
Benoit Couture
Edmonton, Canada
Ps: I apologise for not understanding your last link as I dont
understand how to read Russian.
>
> Therefore I don't think that capitalism will sustain as well as its
> more centralized reflection did not sustain - the Soviet style
> socialism. A solution is somewhere in the middle - between market and
> planhttp://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post_14.html
> Therefore I don't think that capitalism will sustain as well as its
> more centralized reflection did not sustain - the Soviet style
> socialism. A solution is somewhere in the middle - between market and
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Nikolay Kryachkov
Apr 1, 2009, 2:19:20 PM4/1/09
to KnowledgePersons
There are many different religions and non-religious people as well.
Would it be correct to separate money ("in God we trust") from
religion at all in order to avoid confrontation?
When I said about "intangible - tangible" connection I meant a "simple
thing" that any intangible is an information/knowledge representation
of tangible - its description. Any wholeness of "thing" is that
connection. For example, religion is intangible and is connected with
church (tangible).
So, if you're insisting on "all you need is love" (intangible) there
is no need in church, isn't it?
From my point of view "religion - church" has its own place in history
and modern life. That connection serves some human rights, but it is
not obligation. Therefore why "in God we trust" money is legal tender
(is obligatory)?
> The note about the food-chain is a good way to describe humans who
> live within the limits of survival (tangibles) without bothering with
> the need to be subjected to "all you need is love" (intangibles).
Why not let people to survive first, then discuss what they are
bothering for?
Nikolay
> ...
>
> read more »
Would it be correct to separate money ("in God we trust") from
religion at all in order to avoid confrontation?
When I said about "intangible - tangible" connection I meant a "simple
thing" that any intangible is an information/knowledge representation
of tangible - its description. Any wholeness of "thing" is that
connection. For example, religion is intangible and is connected with
church (tangible).
So, if you're insisting on "all you need is love" (intangible) there
is no need in church, isn't it?
From my point of view "religion - church" has its own place in history
and modern life. That connection serves some human rights, but it is
not obligation. Therefore why "in God we trust" money is legal tender
(is obligatory)?
> The note about the food-chain is a good way to describe humans who
> live within the limits of survival (tangibles) without bothering with
> the need to be subjected to "all you need is love" (intangibles).
bothering for?
Nikolay
>
> read more »
Benoit
Apr 2, 2009, 9:20:49 AM4/2/09
to KnowledgePersons
You wrote:
"So, if you're insisting on "all you need is love" (intangible) there
is no need in church, isn't it?"
When church is alive according to God's New Covenant, then love is
"So, if you're insisting on "all you need is love" (intangible) there
is no need in church, isn't it?"
embodied.
Apply that answer to each point and question you raised, and you get
the picture of when love is the intangible sourcing the survival and
the joy of creative togetherness!
Such picture is how, when and why the whole history and presence of
the Church is the testimony of God to humanity, by existing from the
second nature of God's gift within and with us, living by the
perpetual celebrating Easter, the resurrected life force.
You ask?
"Would it be correct to separate money ("in God we trust") from
religion at all in order to avoid confrontation?"
not be restricted by the limitations of human affairs which are driven
and structured by power huger to control power hunger.
It is up to those who trust in God to demonstrate how to translate our
time, talents and energy from love to fairness of survival and life
enjoyment for all.
If the legal tender is to actualy be tender, then love must feed and
guide The Rule of Law.
Christ made it simple to follow. He says: "Give to Ceasar what
belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God". After saying
so, He paid His taxes to Ceasar by producing a spontanious miracle.
It by its conduct that the Church reveals or hinders God's testimony
on earth.
We, the Church, are not here to defeat Ceasar; we are here to serve
God in such a way, that Ceasar gets to reign peacefully and to
eventually be himself, member of the Church...as long as he does not
join to further his power...oups...that was missed a long time ago,
was it not!?!?!?...
Because of THAT history, all of your distancing from that historic
fraud is very understandable...I was born and raised in it, just like
many billions of people over the last 1700 years or so. My life's
work is to voice and to write the delivrance from that fraud, hoping
to live under The Rule of Love and Truth.
Benoit
Nikolay Kryachkov
Apr 3, 2009, 4:13:26 AM4/3/09
to KnowledgePersons
You know I recollected Dostoevsky's novel "The Idiot" - about truth,
love, beauty, money and Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Idiot_(novel)
Wikipedia says: "Unfortunately, the "idiot" cannot save himself from
society and fails in the end." Wrong! Thanks to such the "Idiots"
Russia still alive. There is a good movie "The Idiot" (2003)
In Russian http://legion-rus.clan.su/blog/2008-05-26-101
With English subtitles http://www.amazon.com/Screen-Version-Dostoevsky%60s-PROPAGANDA-POSTCARD/dp/B000NY5BUC
The Idiot will Live, will love! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4znqqnRDlU
The Idiot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkFCzGpCcVk
Re: $1000000 On Fire, or What Russians Do With Money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixAGU5qoqKY oh, it doesnt work. Look at
1958 version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg85q0uMDbc
And if Rome is falling, it's inevitable.
After that I pictured a banker in a new brand business suit "Knowledge
Person" with a personal certificate and number. Really fancy dress
with ideologically fancy price, isn't it?
Nikolay
> ...
>
> read more »
love, beauty, money and Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Idiot_(novel)
Wikipedia says: "Unfortunately, the "idiot" cannot save himself from
society and fails in the end." Wrong! Thanks to such the "Idiots"
Russia still alive. There is a good movie "The Idiot" (2003)
In Russian http://legion-rus.clan.su/blog/2008-05-26-101
With English subtitles http://www.amazon.com/Screen-Version-Dostoevsky%60s-PROPAGANDA-POSTCARD/dp/B000NY5BUC
The Idiot will Live, will love! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4znqqnRDlU
The Idiot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkFCzGpCcVk
Re: $1000000 On Fire, or What Russians Do With Money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixAGU5qoqKY oh, it doesnt work. Look at
1958 version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg85q0uMDbc
And if Rome is falling, it's inevitable.
After that I pictured a banker in a new brand business suit "Knowledge
Person" with a personal certificate and number. Really fancy dress
with ideologically fancy price, isn't it?
Nikolay
>
> read more »
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