Swapping Winch Locations

[Ralph Bush]

As previously mentioned; I am almost always sailing alone which makes sail raising with the non self tailing winch a hassle.  I find it difficult to crank on the winch with one hand while maintaining pressure on the halyard with the other all while attempting to stare upward to keep track of the head of the sail.  A self tailing halyard winch sure would be nice!

On the other hand; virtually all I use the self tailing feature of the mainsheet winch for is to cleat it off once i have the sail trimmed.  If I want to sheet the sail in I don't crank on the winch; but luff up a bit and pull the sheet in by hand.

It occurs to me that I should swap the halyard and sheet winches and get the self tailing feature where I will actually use it.  Has anyone else done this, or have a reason why doing it would be a bad idea?

Thanks for any insights!

1983  N26C  #104

“Hyggelig”

EYC,  Toronto,  ON

[R D Young]

Ralph, All the winches on our boat are self-tailing but years ago, in the maintenance section of the Nonsuch website, I saw a piece of equipment another owner had added to their boat which you might find useful. I think they called it an inside-out cam cleat. It’s a cam cleat mounted on the inside of a u-shaped bracket which mounts on the mast, about 8’ off the deck, with a single big hose clamp. With this bracket in place I can go to the mast and raise the sail hand over hand very quickly to within a foot or so of the black band. After each increment of halyard is hauled in, a slight outward/downward tug on the halyard secures it in the cam cleat, then you repeat until the sail is as high as you can get it by hand, return to the cockpit and use the winch just to tension the halyard. The final tensioning of the halyard pops the halyard out of the cam cleat. It works very well. If you can’t find this on the website or envision it from my description, let me know and I will see if I can find a picture of the one I made for our boat.

David Young
Bay Cat, 30U #402
Traverse City / Suttons Bay, MI

[Ralph Bush]

Hi David;

I have seen this method used in the past.  Since I sail alone most of the time I make it my mission in life to leave the cockpit as little as possible once I have left the dock - hence the purchase of a Nonsuch.

I can get my sail about 3/4 of the way up by hand, but then I have to switch to the winch.

[R D Young]

Even when sailing alone, I almost always raise sail at the mast because it is so much easier and faster to get the sail up from there. There is a ton of friction in the halyard path between the mast and the cockpit. In really rough conditions, I clip on when I leave the cockpit. I do everything else from the cockpit. Different strokes…

David Young
Bay Cat, 30U #402
Traverse City / Suttons Bay, MI

[Art Digout]

I have the same problem and am looking for a solution. How about a cam cleat behind the winch? You could drop the halyard into the winch each arm's length and at least not have to let go of the winch handle to go hand over hand on the halyard. I guess the other ($$$) solution is to replace the winch with either a self-tailing or electric winch.

Art Digout
Weenin 26C #39 1982
Cape Breton

[Ralph Bush]

Hello Art;

I in fact have a line stopper in front of the winch.  This means that I can at least let go of the line to preposition my hand as I am tailing, but it still means I am pulling with one arm while cranking with the other.

In an ideal world I would simply buy a self tailing winch; but I have a lot of fixing to do on the boat and a definite budget.  If I can reallocate existing assets for no additional cost that is the way to go.  In a few years I may spring for an electric halyard winch, but it isn't in the budget right now.  The line stopper was a great addition though.  If you don't have one I would recommend it.

FYI; I'm an old Nova Scotian myself.

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 2:07:49 PM UTC-5, Ralph Bush wrote:

[Greg Silver]

Swapping Winch Locations

Finally my self tailing Barient 10 ST sheet winch  gave up the ghost (casting worn and wouldn't hold the dogs in place). I purchased Andersen 12 ST to replace but this is not yet installed - waiting for the thaw....

I want to comment on the halyard and single handed sail raising. I intend to install an 'outboard' cam cleat off the mast to hand-raise from the deck. Have seen this in action on Patience (NS30U) and it works like a charm. Point boat into the wind, leave the sheet slack and helm forward, and it takes about a minute to get the sail up to 90% locked into the cam, then dash into the cockpit to finish on the winch. You have to remember to disengage the cam cleat in order to lower the sail!

Re: idea of a line stopper/cam cleat before a winch without self-tailing gear: I am refitting another boat (Niagara 35) which does not have self-tailers on the genny winches. Winch replacement is v. expensive (requires 2 ST 46's - about $1350 C each + tax at Binnacle's current sale price). So, my plan is to put line stoppers on the 'sail side' of these winches which should make hand-tailing a breeze, I think. Would be happy to hear comments from anyone who has done this on a sheet winch.

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121 (1983)

St. Peter's, Cape Breton

Art Digout <a...@artdigout.ca>: Mar 11 12:16PM -0800

I have the same problem and am looking for a solution. How about a cam  cleat behind the winch? You could drop the halyard into the winch each  arm's length and at least not have to let go of the winch handle to go hand  over hand on the halyard. I guess the other ($$$) solution is to replace  the winch with either a self-tailing or electric winch.    Art Digout Weenin 26C #39 1982 Cape Breton     On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 3:07:49 PM UTC-4, Ralph Bush wrote:

Ralph Bush <ralph...@gmail.com>: Mar 11 12:26PM -0800

[Allen Perrins]

Hi

Install a "hat" section of stainless on the mast at the level of the running light. with a cam cleat

on the INSIDE of the hat.  Jump the halyard through the cam. When near full hoist is made, return to

the cockpit, retrieve the slack in the halyard and start to winch the final hoist. The halyard will snap

out of the cam cleat automatically.

 Don't like the idea of the halyard stuck in the cam requiring attention when full tension is

on the halyard..

The cleat arrangement is called an "O'Neil" cleat after a Nonsuch inventor in the Chesapeake.

Reference was found in the NS literature somewhere. 

Not all cluches when fully loaded with genoa sheet tension of a 35' boat can be easily released and 

hence could make overhauling by hand impossible. 

Al

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[Ed Brost]

Hi Greg;

I can’t comment on the rigging for a genoa on a Niagara 35, but alas, I can’t help myself.  Was the pun regarding tailing ease intended?

 

…..Ed

 

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat N30U 322

Sarnia Ontario

 

 

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Silver
Sent: March 12, 2017 3:23 PM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Swapping Winch Locations

 

Swapping Winch Locations

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[Thor Powell Mariner's Cat V - 26C - North Channel]

Regarding self tailing winches.  I have two Barton Winchers and compared to the cost of adding self tailing winches they work well on topping. reef and I expect main sheet winches.

T   

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 2:07:49 PM UTC-5, Ralph Bush wrote:

[C]

I have used the wincher on halyard and clew reef winches for years, to avoid the cost of self tailing. They work as advertised. Occasionally I forget to cleat the tail, not a good idea, but the line doesn't slip.  On the halyard one must keep the tail from wrapping on the winch by occasionally pulling, but no tension is required.  Forgetting this action has caused a massive entanglement as my Milwaukee/winch bit grinds away. But one learns quickly.

Carl Linkinhoker
NS26C 146 "Break of Day"
Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Carl Linkinhoker
NS26c 146 Break of Day

[Mike Darlington]

I have found that when my sliders are lubricated with dilute dishwater and the track is clean I can raise the sail almost to the top without the winch. This drastically reduces the need of the self tailing feature on my winch.
Mike Darlington
Tiroc 26C
Whitby Ontario

[Richard Lane]

Some 15yrs ago I made a plastic sail track lubricator that is hauled up with the halyard and hauled down with a light messenger line. This gadget has a lubricant well that feeds the track via candle wick in a couple of bore holes. Works well.
Richard Lane
NS26c Swoose

Sent from my iPad

[Ralph Bush]

Thanks a lot for all the useful feedback guys.  This group is great!

I think I will give the Wincher a try.  If it works for me it will certainly be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying a self tailing winch, and a lot less work than relocating ones I already have.

Thanks again.

Ralph Bush

1983  N26C  #104

“Hyggelig”

EYC,  Toronto,  ON

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 2:07:49 PM UTC-5, Ralph Bush wrote:

[Joe Valinoti]

I've been using the dishwashing method also, having learned about it on this
site several years ago. It is a simple solution, works and doesn't build up
dirt like a lubricant does.

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Thor Powell Mariner's Cat V - 26C - North Channel]

Check ebay... $60 and up....