IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTICE

[PMK1504]

Dear fellow RTI stakeholder

I am pleased to inform the group that the first phase of transition of
our groups to the Google platform is complete.

Today we have over 1500 members in HumJanenge with the amalgamation of
the member lists of HumJanenge (Yahoo) and rti4empowerment (Yahoo) and
after weeding out all bouncing and spammy email IDs. I further clarify
that 55 persons have indicated that they do not want to participate in
this group, they have been flagged and cannot be added to this group
"forcibly".

This group is a testimonial to the vision of the late Prakash
Kardaley, and the dedicated and tireless activists managing this group
shall endeavor to take this group forward as Masterji would have
desired. In particular,

a) Message posts to be directly relevant to RTI or democracy,
accountability, transparency, corruption in India.
b) No abusive language to be used in message posts
c) No "Cross-Posting" (multiple copies of the same message from / to
other egroups)
d) All posts in English language only (or with accurate translation)
e) No communal, sexist, racial, casteist etc message posts
f) Fostering brotherly feeling among RTI activists all over India and
organizing concerted action.

PMK

[virender johar]

Thanks.

 

Lt Col V K Johar

[sroy 1947]

Dear PMK

I would also strongly advocate that you start kicking / muzzle the few barking dogs who think they are the custodians of RTI and have a degree in psychiatry.

Could we also have your vision of what the late PMK's vision was, because from what I remember, his (and Anna Hazare's) one point program was "babus are servants of the people and all laws must be geared to reflect this". Whereas I subscribe to Sir Arnold Robinson's views on Open Government ".. my dear chap you can't be serious, you can either be open or have Government ... "

Sarbajit

[DSouza Wilberious Evanglist]

Dear All group members.

 

There are many imnstances of RTI activists seeking sensitive information having lost their lives. I suggest whosoever who seeks such infotmation if  marks a copy to HumJaanenge should obtain solidarity in the form of at least 10 persons seeking same information  from same public authority whereby that one will not be made isolated target.

 

Regards,

WEDS

---

From: virender johar <virende...@gmail.com>
To: humja...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 10 November, 2010 8:37:53
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTICE

[DSouza Wilberious Evanglist]

Dear Roy,

 

1. The Constitution of India declares India as Secular Democratic Republic.

 

2. The Constitution of India is a Supreme Compendium that oversees every aspect of Democracy.

 

3. In Democracy, the Government is defined as A GOVERNMENT BY A PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE & FOR THE PEOPLE.

 

4. People are Supreme & not the Government in a Democracy, as the Government is installed by the people to govern themselves.

 

5. The Government is formed by the Elected Representatives of People holding majority of like political ideology holders for, in a Democracy all the people cannot rule all the people. Hence, this system.

 

6. The body of elected representatives form Parliament (Meaning platform to speak) for the people; as all the people cannot speak for all the people. "Parlare"  meaning to speak.

 

7. The Parliament consists of two houses a. The House of People b. Council of states.

 

8. The House of People consists of elected representatives of People.

 

9.  The Council of states consists of secondary representatives of people i.e. representatives of  peoples' representatives.

 

10.Parliament enacts laws which is construed & deemed as De Facto reflects the will of People.

 

11. Parliament has superintendence over The State i.e.Legislature, Executive & The Judiciary. (Including all Courts, Supreme Court & High Courts too)

 

11 The State is defined in Art. 12 includes, Legislature, Executive & The Judiciary.

 

12. Will of the people reigns supreme on the State (with State as defined in Art. 12 of the Constitution of India)

 

13. Hence, all persons in the Government right from President to the lowest functionary in a village panchayat including judges & all functionaries in the Judiciary are public servants. i.e servants of People & that is Democracy. Read section 21 of IPC 1860 The Prevention of Corruption Act 1988 & whereever Lokayukta Act  whereever that exists.

 

Regards,

WEDS

---

From: sroy 1947 <sroy...@gmail.com>
To: humja...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 10 November, 2010 14:12:10

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTICE

[Gopala krishnan]

Thank you for the informative post but serial numbers 11 twice over are wrong. Judiciary is not State.

---

From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wile...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: humja...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 10 November, 2010 8:34:05 PM

[sroy1947]

Dear WEDS / GopKris

GK: The judiciary is included within the "State", it is not included
within "Government":

WEDS: Your bookish knowledge is riddled with fallacies and
assumptions. Here is what the one of world's longest reigning Head of
State has to say.

"Parliaments are the backbone of that conventional democracy
prevailing in the world today. Parliament is a misrepresentation of
the people, and parliamentary systems are a false solution to the
problem of democracy. A parliament is originally founded to represent
the people, but this in itself is undemocratic as democracy means the
authority of the people and not an authority acting on their behalf.
The mere existence of a parliament means the absence of the people."

"The masses are completely isolated from the representative and he, in
turn, is totally removed from them. Immediately after winning the
electors' votes the representative takes over the people's sovereignty
and acts on their behalf. The prevailing traditional democracy endows
the member of parliament with a sacredness and immunity which are
denied to the rest of the people. Parliaments, therefore, have become
a means of plundering and usurping the authority of the people.I"

"If parliament is formed from one party as a result of its winning an
election, it becomes a parliament of the winning party and not of the
people. It represents the party and not the people, and the executive
power of the parliament becomes that of the victorious party and not
of the people."

"Under such systems, the people are the victims whose votes are vied
for by exploitative competing factions who dupe the people into
political circuses that are outwardly noisy and frantic, but inwardly
powerless and irrelevant. Alternatively, the people are seduced into
standing in long, apathetic, silent queues to cast their ballots in
the same way that they throw waste paper into dustbins. Thus it is
clear that representation is a fraud."

"Originally, the party is formed ostensibly to represent the people.
Subsequently, the party leadership becomes representative of the
membership, and the leader represents the party elite. It becomes
clear that this partisan game is a deceitful farce based on a false
form of democracy. It has a selfish authoritarian character based on
maneuvres, intrigues and political games. This confirms the fact that
the party system is a modern instrument of dictatorship. The party
system is an outright, unconvincing dictatorship, one which the world
has not yet surpassed. It is, in fact, the dictatorship of the modern
age.

The parliament of the winning party is indeed a parliament of the
party, for the executive power formed by this parliament is the power
of the party over the people. Party power, which is supposedly for the
good of the whole people, is actually the arch-enemy of a fraction of
the people, namely, the opposition party or parties and their
supporters. The opposition is, therefore, not a popular check on the
ruling party but, rather, is itself opportunistically seeking to
replace the ruling party."

"The purpose of forming a party is to create an instrument to rule the
people, i.e., to rule over non-members of the party. The party is,
fundamentally, based on an arbitrary authoritarian concept - the
domination of the members of the party over the rest of the people"

Sarbajit

On Nov 11, 2:56 am, Gopala krishnan <kgg...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Thank you for the informative post but serial numbers 11 twice over are wrong.
> Judiciary is not State.
>
> ________________________________

> From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wileva...@yahoo.co.uk>

[Col NR Kurup]

Dear friends,

Neither I studied political science nor femiliar with the style of
functioning of various democracies of the world. As a solider
vis-a-vis apolitical cityzen of India following style of functioning
of our democracy irks me and often turn me rebellious:

1. Various political parties contest elections with their nominees and
the party with the maximum number gain power. There ends the cityzens
participation in democracy.

2. Thereafter political party head who has given tickets to the
elected member dictate terms. It is he/she who decide who should be
the Prime Minister, Chief Minister and Ministers. Such nominated
Prime Minister or Chief Minister or Ministers need not be an elected
representative of the people. With the newly gained power, the
nominated Ministers can easily manipulate to get himself elected from
a constituency to fulfill the legal requirement.

3. It is the leader of the Party who decide who should be our
President, Chiefs of all Commissions etc., etc.,

4. As per the book. the PM or CM is elected by members of the Houses.
But what we have been seeing is that it is left to the head of the
majority political party to decide who should be made PM or CM

The story is too long. This is just my view

Col NR Kurup

[DSouza Wilberious Evanglist]

Dear Roy,

 

I do concur with you cent per cent on your observations in the current manifestation of Democracy. I observed as I observed from what essentially Democracy is & should be.

 

Literacy & enlightenment of people in Democracy is essential as people should be watchful  & vigilent in a Democracy. Otherwise, it will be like mice scamper when cat is asleep.

 

I am reminded of  what jocularly is remarked as,

 

IN PRAJA PRABHUTV, WHEN ONE PRAJE BECOMES PRABHU; THAT PRAJE CEASES TO BE PRAJE & REIGNS AS PRABHU ON REST OF THE PRAJA.

 

This what Iqbal the Urdu poet aptly state,

 

JAMBOORIYAT WOH TARZ E HUKUMAT HAI; JIS MEIN INSAAN KO GINA JAATAA HAI MAGAR TOALAA NAHIN JAATAA.

 

Meaning;

 

DEMOCRACY IS THAT FORM OF GOVERNMENT WHEREBY  PEOPLE ARE COUNTED BY THEIR HEADS & NOT ASSESSED FOR THEIR CAPABILITIES;

 

IF THERE ARE 10 IDIOTS AGAINST ONE WISE; IDIOTS WILL PREVAIL OVER WISE BY SIMPLE MAJORITY.

 

With 76% of indian population is stated to subsist by earning  Rs.25 per day, I am poignantly aware that this discussion is a previlege of  few as we both are & is meaningless to those 76%.

 

I am also aware We, as two or many other as we are, can singly can do nothing & decide in a meeting together that nothing can be done.

 

I am aware that Judiciary is a part of state but not Government by the premise of independence of Judiciary. However, my indication was independence of Judiciary  does not connote & not to be construed as immunity of Judges & absence of accountability of judges to the people for their acts & ommissions.

 

Thank you very much & with warm regards,

WEDS

---

From: sroy1947 <sroy...@gmail.com>
To: HumJanenge RTI India Right to Information Act 2005 <HumJa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 11 November, 2010 7:15:50
Subject: [HumJanenge] Re: IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTICE

[PMK1504]

Sir

Equally off-topic and unscientifically, India's problems must be solved
firmly by the following URGENT measures.

1) Enforcement of Family Planning to reduce population by 5% year
on year on national level, 10% year on year in "Bimaru" states.

2) Compulsory military service for both sexes between age 18 to 21.

3) Right to bear arms should be a Fundamental Right to anyone who has
served in military for 3 years or more.

4) Government should not be allowed to "print" money to pay for social
service spending.

5) Once competent court awards death penalty, it must be executed
within 1 year or offender be set free.

PMK

[Urvi Sukul Singh]

Dear Col Kurup,you should consult a Constituitonal lawyer to get the correct
picture.
Regards
Urvi

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Col NR Kurup" <colnr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:29 AM
To: <humja...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTICE

[sroy 1947]

Dear Ms Singh

Col Kurup is spot on. You don't need a "Constitutional lawyer" <rol> to explain why the ground reality does not map to the Constitution. BTW its only the Marxists who stand for the piece of crap that our much amended Constitution now is.

PS: Can you inform the Hon'ble members the precise "Constitutional" posts that Ms Sonia Gandhi or Rahul Gandhi occupy ???.

Sarbajit

[Vinita Deshmukh]

Compulsory military service is urgently required and will empower
India's women enormously. We should build on this.
xxx
Vinita

On Nov 11, 4:18 pm, PMK1504 <humjanenge.ow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sir
>
> Equally off-topic and unscientifically, India's problems must be solved
> firmly by the following URGENT measures.
>
> 1) Enforcement of Family Planning to reduce population by 5% year
> on year on national level, 10% year on year in "Bimaru" states.
>
> 2) Compulsory military service for both sexes between age 18 to 21.
>
> 3) Right to bear arms should be a Fundamental Right to anyone who has
> served in military for 3 years or more.
>
> 4) Government should not be allowed to "print" money to pay for social
> service spending.
>
> 5) Once competent court awards death penalty, it must be executed
> within 1 year or offender be set free.
>
> PMK
>

[Abhimanyu]

No vinita . you are wrong.

 

we indian need a functional and living judiciary. Crime against women and against anybody goes unpunished by our dead and lifeless judiciary.

 

women cannot get justice by getting military training.

[Sunil Ahya]

Dear WEDS,

1.      Any democratic form of government comprises of three branches namely Legislature, Executive and Judiciary.

 

The primary function of the judicial branch of a government is to hold trials and decide cases under the nation's laws.

 

The Legislature and Executive discharge their functions under the Constitution and similarly the Judiciary discharges its own functions under the same.

 

Although, each of these branches discharges different / separate functions, but collectively they comprise the government and govern the nation.

 

Hence, a judiciary indeed is a branch of the government and is included within the meaning of the term "Government" as mentioned in Art.12 and as a consequence included within the meaning of the term "the State" as defined under Article12 of the Constitution of India.

 

The Doctrine of Independence of Judiciary is for protection of Judges in particular and shielding the judicial branch in general from improper influence by the other branches of a government to ensure discharge of free and fair judicial process and has no bearing on whether judiciary is a branch of a government or not.

Warm Regards,

Sunil.

--
It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen - Aristotle

[DSouza Wilberious Evanglist]

Dear Sunil,

 

I eco what you have written. Independence of judiciary should not be construed as immunity of judges from any acts & ommissions regardless of whether such Act & ommission is in confirmity with the provisions of The Constitution of India or enavctments by parliament.  Mostly it is not, So accountability of judges is a must. e.g. former CJI KGB's ruling in Kannapuram Gandaiah vs. CAO of Hyderabad High court which is violative of Constitution & power of the people in Democracy.

 

My seeking information from Dr, Manmohan Singh on a complaint by me against Veerappa Moily for not providimng information about action on letter by former CJI KGB to PM to ammend section 8 of RTI & the latter forwarding it Mr. Moily for implementation remain unreplied since 5 months.

 

Regards,

WEDS

---

From: Sunil Ahya <suni...@gmail.com>
To: humja...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 11 November, 2010 23:30:11

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTICE

[PMK1504]

Dear fellow RTI stakeholder

With the blessings of so many members [HumJanenge] is all set to be India's premier RTI group, staunchly defending the citizens right to speak freely and obtain information under Right to Information. As we have reached a sizable membership of genuine RTI activists within a very short period, and in the face of considerable provocation from the "vested interests of RTI", it is now proposed to better regulate our group  Please read (and reread) the following carefully, as these regulations shall be enforced very strictly and without discrimination

The HumJanenge group is a proud example of Public Private Partnership. India's most eminent RTI activists and e-group moderators have proposed the list of about 2,500 citizens and RTI user and activists for primary membership of this group. The Government of India will thereafter recommend an equal number of PIOs, First Appellate Authorities, Information Commissioners for membership here with the emphasis on public authorities.with a vast citizenship interface.

In this "marriage" it would be proper for all of us to be on our best behaviour.

1) MESSAGE POSTS

a) Message posts to be directly relevant to RTI or democracy, accountability, transparency, corruption in India . The focus is on RTI in general and not on specific instances of corruption affecting an individual member. The prime focus is on discussion of gray areas of the RTI Act 2005.

b) No abusive language to be used in message posts
c) No "Cross-Posting" (multiple copies of the same message from / to other egroups)
d) All posts in English language only (or with accurate translation)
e) No communal, sexist, racial, casteist etc message posts

f) Fostering  brotherly feeling among RTI activists all over India and organizing concerted action through message posts.
g) Posting of "news" reports on RTI by simply copy-pasting is banned. This is also a copyright violation issue which we (and googlegroups) take seriously. If a news report is important, post your views / concerns with the LINK to the article.
h) Posts to be kept short and focussed. Long scholarly arguments are strongly discouraged.
i) Posts in reply to be trimmed (by deleting the previous post so that only relevant portions which are at issue to be retained).
j) Self publicity or publicity for NGOs (and their programs) is strictly prohibited.
k) Address message posts to the group (and not to individual members)

2) FREQUENCY OF POSTING

a) This group shall strive to limit itself to 300 messages per month. The list owner is empowered to take all steps necessary to achieve this.
b) Of these 150 message are reserved to the list owner and about 10 "guru" members who shall be invited to assist the list owner. The list of "guru" members shall be widely publicised and updated from time to time
c) Other members are allowed to post upto 3 messages per day (24 hours approx) and 10 messages per month.
d) Members are requested to limit / control the frequency of their posts to this list and avoid personality based squabbles on this group.
e) Please try to combine reply posts, and avoid the temptation of replying to posts immediately.

PMK

[PMK1504]

Dear RTI stakeholders

In response to feedback / queries from our esteemed members.

a) We ("PMK1504") am not Masterji Prakash Kardaley.
We use the handle as a tribute to Masterji, and to refresh ourselves
about him every time we post to this group.

b) We acknowledge that the spate of emails from this new group
has overwhelmed many members, especially the senior citizens
and computerphobes. It is untrue that this group does not
permit members to unsubscribe.

We have therefore taken the following steps and solicit your
cooperation

A) FOR A PERIOD OF 1 WEEK ALL MESSAGES TO THIS
GROUP ARE "MODERATED".

B) DIS-SATISFIED MEMBERS WITH GMAIL  ACCOUNTS
CAN UNSUBSCRIBE / MODIFY THEIR EMAIL DELIVERY
OPTIONS USING THIS LINK
http://groups.google.com/group/HumJanenge/subscribe
(Yes, you can also unsubscribe there)

C) OTHER DIS-SATISFIED MEMBERS CAN "REPLY"
TO ANY POST FROM THIS GROUP INDICATING IF
THEY WANT TO (a) "unsubscribe" or "(b) "switch to
digest mode (1 email per day)", and the management
shall endeavor to carry out their wishes within 48 hours

PMK