Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?

[Ignacio Valdes]

Hi all,

I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what
Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what
that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How
can I change the text prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text
interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access
Code, Password/Verify Code.

-- IV

[David Whitten]

Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be
a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is
known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that
is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned.
Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and
the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon
as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all,
the code is available. But other than just making it something that is
asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works
as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access
Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

David

[fred trotter]

Am I correct in saying that VistA will support two passwords, and two
passwords and a user_id, but not a user_id and just one password?

-FT

--
Fred Trotter
http://www.fredtrotter.com

[Greg Woodhouse]

You're really mixing apples and oranges here. Ordinary users normally use access/verify codes to sign in to VistA. Of course, at the level of Linux there is a separate authentication process. It may be based on a user ID and password or something more sophisticated. But this is something that should be transparent to VistA users. Of course, other resources, such as application servers and external database systems will also require a means of authentication. But, again, this should be trqansparent to users.

[Ben Mehling]

We have encountered similar confusion from end-users and resistance to
the VA terms from internal resources (who are familiar w/ more
standard industry terminology). OpenVista CIS uses the terms "Login
ID" and "Password" to help the end-users feel more comfortable. Both
remain "masked" on screen. Not all error messages are synchronized to
use the new terms yet.

While I understand the VA's original intent here, users think about it
differently now having be inundated with hundreds of "usernames and
passwords" for every website, email and computer they use.

- Ben

[I, Valdes]

I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like
to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it
works other than the text for the prompt. Is there a way to change the
prompt text? -- IV

On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote:
> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be
> a mistake.  They are better explained as two passwords. One that is
> known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that
> is only known to the user.  This is the way it originally was planned.
> Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and
> the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon
> as the first login occurs.  Adding a UserID would be possible, after all,
> the code is available. But other than just making it something that is
> asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works
> as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access
> Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.
>
> David
>

[Greg Woodhouse]

That would be easy enough were it not for CPRS. You would need to go in and modify the Delphi components, too.

[fred trotter]

With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of
constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer
department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it
has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can
be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about
what that actually means).

Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...

Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

-FT

[Greg Woodhouse]

The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.

 

It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general, it's a good software engineering practice to keep prompt strings in a resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was designed that way. If the prompts were being issued on the M side, then the corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be handled there, but it isn't.

[Nancy Anthracite]

It will not take long for the word of mouth to spread so rather than try to
find all of the places that it would need to be changed, why not just let the
users learn in their training sessions and from each other?

85,000 people are trained to use VistA by the VA every year.

--
Nancy Anthracite

[Nancy Anthracite]

You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D ^ZU and
I am not sure what else.

--
Nancy Anthracite

[I, Valdes]

Because it is user and support staff hostile? Because it is opaque and
meaningless for nearly everyone? Because most support staff calls are
about userid's and passwords and access/verify code makes this more
labor intensive, that even 'trained' personnel cannot remember, ie do
not stay trained, on what it means? That this seems like it could be
easily changed but isn't? That the introduction to a rich and powerful
system is the most stressful part for both the user and support staff
and could be made easier? I say all of this from first hand
knowledge.

-- IV

[Nancy Anthracite]

Although I hear what you are saying, but I don't think this is too onerous to
tolerate for now for a number of reasons.

In general user IDs are not confidential. For a VistA/CPRS system, like Dave
said, this is like two passwords and in that sense, maybe it is a good idea
to have folks think it is different.

In addition, for systems like Linux systems with user name and password to
access a terminal and then Access and Verify to get into VistA, and with
Cache/Windows where there may also be a separate login for a terminal session
preceding entering the Access and Verify Codes, it can help make it clear
what you are talking about when you discuss the two layers of security.

You also have the risk of breaking things changing this throughout VistA roll
and scroll and its numerous GUIs, so changes would require a lot of QA
testing in the various systems to check it out.

Although it can be done, it is not going to be easy or inexpensive in money or
in volunteer time.

--
Nancy Anthracite

[kdt...@gmail.com]

Ignacio,

I also was bother by this. I got CPRS compilling and simply chaged
the label beside the login in area to "Login" and "Password". I also
make the "Login" to not be hidden.

The rest of the world has gone the route of Login/Password. In a
hospital setting, you might be better to follow the VA way, but in my
small office, I like my way.

Kevin

[kdt...@gmail.com]

Greg,

Unfortunately, Delphi does not keep strings in a resource file.
Otherwise it would be easy to change.
I had to modify the RPC Broker file on the GUI side to make the label
read the way I want it to.

Kevin


On Nov 25, 2:45 pm, "Greg Woodhouse" <gregory.woodho...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.
>
> It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA
> that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general,
> it's a good software engineering practice to keep prompt strings in a
> resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the
> bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was
> designed that way. If the prompts were being issued on the M side, then the
> corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be
> handled there, but it isn't.
>

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of
> > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer
> > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it
> > has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.
>
> > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can
> > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about
> > what that actually means).
>
> > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...
>
> > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.
>
> > -FT
>

[kdt...@gmail.com]

No, nothing has to be changed on the server side. The functionality
of the passwords doesn't change, just the labeling in CPRS.

Kevin

On Nov 25, 3:03 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote:
> You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D ^ZU and
> I am not sure what else.  
>
> On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Greg Woodhouse wrote:> The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.
>
> > It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA
> > that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general,
> > it's a good software engineering practice to keep prompt strings in a
> > resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the
> > bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was
> > designed that way. If the prompts were being issued on the M side, then the
> > corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be
> > handled there, but it isn't.
>
> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter
>

> <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> > > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of
> > > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer
> > > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it
> > > has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.
>
> > > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can
> > > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about
> > > what that actually means).
>
> > > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...
>
> > > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.
>
> > > -FT
>

[Nancy Anthracite]

What I am talking abou is things in the are prompts such as "Do you want to
edit the Access Code Y/N" , and the Menus such as "Purge Log of Old Access
and Verify Codes" and the access point program D ^ZU and the Mental Heath
manager GUI, the Query GUI, etc.

It is not a one time fix in one place in one GUI.

--
Nancy Anthracite

[Kevin Toppenberg]

Attached is an image of my login screen.

Be aware, however, that all modifications to CPRS imply carrying forward such changes with each subsequent CPRS version--which can be an effort/expensive etc.

If you could get your users past this issue (as I assume they are able to do in the VA), then you would save yourself some work in the future.

Kevin

--
Thanks,
Kevin T

[I, Valdes]

Does anyone know and can communicate how to change just the login
prompt text for the text-based system?

This would be JUST the login prompt text.

What I want is a possibly relatively easy change of the static prompt
text as Kevin is saying not a system overhaul in all places. This
change is for non-IT personnel like Nurses, Doctor's, Clerks and
casual users of the system just at the login prompt. I have no
interest in changing it all under the covers where skilled IT
personnel that interact with the system all the time know better.

Kevin, bravo on your CPRS client change, that's exactly what I'd like
to do but is beyond my current capability with CPRS.

-- IV

[JohnLeo Zimmer]

Making this sort of a change is simple in ^XUS and should be in CPRS.
Sites should be able to label these as they see fit.
(I understand that it is not simple.)

1. I like Kevin's solution. And I think it would be worthwhile...
2. especially if CPRS could be made to make an RPC to the Dialog file
to set these prompts.
3. Something of the sort will be needed for internationalization as well.

jlz

[I, Valdes]

How does one change this in text-based? The staff uses text-based to
register and schedule the patients so this could help. -- IV

[Nancy Anthracite]

That would be in Delphi code for CPRS and for the other GUIs. However, the
roll and scroll is used for a number of things by users, so there they will
be facing Access and Verify code prompts, which, I learned tonight, are
actually field names in some cases in VistA, and in the routines in others,
so just changing the prompts is not really a "just" sort of thing.

On Tuesday 25 November 2008, ival...@gmail.com wrote:
> Does anyone know and can communicate how to change just the login
> prompt text for the text-based system?
>
> This would be JUST the login prompt text.
>
> What I want is a possibly relatively easy change of the static prompt
> text as Kevin is saying not a system overhaul in all places. This
> change is for non-IT personnel like Nurses, Doctor's, Clerks and
> casual users of the system just at the login prompt. I have no
> interest in changing it all under the covers where skilled IT
> personnel that interact with the system all the time know better.
>

> -- IV

--
Nancy Anthracite

[JohnLeo Zimmer]

In the DIALOG file entry 30810.51 is "ACCESS CODE: "
And entry 30810.52 is "VERIFY CODE: "

The ^XUS routine uses these to display the relevant prompts.
In the ideal world all references to these two entities would call the
same entry in DIALOG.

jlz

[I, Valdes]

Here is the solution and terminal session for how to change the prompt
text in Fileman. Please note that this is not a recommended
modification by some. Note that I changed only the prompt text to
Login ID/Access Code: and Password/Verify Code: This changes nothing
under the covers and it is still Access/Verify everywhere else.

GTM>S DUZ=60 D P^DI


VA FileMan 22.0


Select OPTION: 1 ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES



INPUT TO WHAT FILE: DIALOG//
EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL//


Select DIALOG: 30810.51 Login/Access code
DIALOG NUMBER: 30810.51//
TYPE: GENERAL MESSAGE//
PACKAGE: KERNEL//
SHORT DESCRIPTION: Login/Access code//
DESCRIPTION:
Login/Access Code

Edit? NO//
INTERNAL PARAMETERS NEEDED:
TEXT:
ACCESS CODE:

Edit? NO// YES

==[ WRAP ]==[ INSERT ]================< TEXT >===============
[ <PF1>H=Help ]====
Login ID/ACCESS CODE:


















<=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T>======


Select PARAMETER SUBSCRIPT:
POST MESSAGE ACTION:
Select LANGUAGE:
Select ROUTINE NAME:


Select DIALOG: 30810.52 Verify code
DIALOG NUMBER: 30810.52//
TYPE: GENERAL MESSAGE//
PACKAGE: KERNEL//
SHORT DESCRIPTION: Verify code//
DESCRIPTION:
No existing text
Edit? NO//
INTERNAL PARAMETERS NEEDED:
TEXT:
VERIFY CODE:

Edit? NO// YES

==[ WRAP ]==[ INSERT ]================< TEXT >===============
[ <PF1>H=Help ]====
Password/VERIFY CODE:


















<=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T>======


Select PARAMETER SUBSCRIPT:
POST MESSAGE ACTION:
Select LANGUAGE:
Select ROUTINE NAME:


Select DIALOG:




Select OPTION:
GTM>h

[Nancy Anthracite]

Now that is a really nice solution! It educates the users so they won't get
confused when the see it elsewhere and doesn't break anything. ;-)

--
Nancy Anthracite