Help with Safety fo cyclists
0 views
Skip to first unread message
Gary
Nov 24, 2009, 5:39:55 PM11/24/09
to GEARs
To all cyclists interested in safety and making it desirable to use
bicycles as transportation, I request assistance in solving one of the
worse safety issues that we have. The issue is that leaves are placed
all over town where cyclists travel. That includes more than the core
bike lanes that the City has agreed to respond to and pick-up
illegally placed leaves. They have done so. But cyclists ride
everywhere. And cyclists are still encountering the safety issue from
the time the leaves are illegally placed until the time someone
complains, and the City gets out there to pick up the mess. And
hopefully you are complaining every time you see an illegal pile.
We are making clear progress but we can’t stop now. The City Council
and the City Manager needs to be bombarded with letters and emails.
The Council has recently decided to reexamine the use of tazers
because of public outcry. We need the same to happen for bicyclist
safety. So let’s cry loudly. The City has for the first time this
year even taken a position that leaves are a hazard and that citizens
are liable. But so is the City. They can’t sidestep the legal issue
which they are trying to do unless they actually start enforcing
existing laws. Currently they are trying to cover their legal behinds
by publically stating that people shouldn’t be putting leaves in
travel lanes. But until they start enforcing the law, rather than
picking up the leaves faster, they are still liable
Attached is a formal complaint that I have made to the City regarding
their leaf program. The leaf photographs attachment is not attached
as the file was too big and it was rejected. I have also written the
Council a few times. You need to file a complaint yourself if you
want to move further in the right direction. We have the momentum
working for us now. Don’t let the opportunity slip away.
And so far, we have all been guilty of focusing our attention on the
City. The County has a leaf collection program similar to the City in
the unincorporated areas such as the River Road area. We need to
start putting the same pressure on the County that we have done to the
City. Write your County Commissioner and County Administrator.
I couldn't figure out how to do an attachment to this site, so I
copied the memorandum below:
MEMORANDUM
DATE: November 6, 2009
TO: Kurt Corey, Director of Public Works, City of Eugene
FROM: Gary W. Cook, 4284 Bent Tree, Eugene, OR
CC: City Manger Jon Ruiz, Mayor Kitty Piercy
RE: Formal Complaint Regarding City Leaf Program
As a public citizen, I would like to file a formal complaint against
the City’s leaf collection policy that is clearly creating hazards to
its citizens. I believe that City staff promote and encourage citizens
to break laws that prohibit the placement of hazards in roadways
during all other times of the year when they allow and even promote
leaf piles in the streets. For years the City has failed to enforce
these nuisance laws and other laws making it a violation to block
traffic lanes for both automobiles and cyclists. By looking the other
way, they have wasted tax payer money by cleaning up the mess.
Consequently, this has gone on so long that many citizens who
regularly violate the law probably think that it’s an acceptable thing
to do. And it’s perfectly clear that the City’s “education program” is
ineffective, or there wouldn’t be all the law violations that have
existed, and will continue to exist, unless City management or the
Council takes action or the City gets sued. The accompanying
photographs and explanation prove that even though the City is
attempting to change things through voluntary compliance, it is
ineffective.
Absolute and clear steps need to be taken now to prevent the City
from intentionally creating hazards for its citizens this year and
beyond. By failing to take action, the Council and City staff are
subjecting the City to lawsuit which they surely can’t win if someone
gets injured. These violations are now so engrained that it will take
substantially more action to change the behavior. My suggested
solution to the problem is the enthusiastic application of a system of
fines to those who are creating these road and bicycle hazards by
piling leaves on the streets. The fines collected could more than fund
the program, and the word would likely get out quickly that the City
is serious about “safety first”. Moreover, Substantial savings can be
achieved as the maintenance crews will have substantially less leaves
and contraband to deal with.
Recently a cyclist crashed due to leaves and broke his hip on Lorane
Hwy. This was outside the Eugene City limits so that the City is not
liable in this situation, but could have been. Other cyclists have
fallen due to slipping on leaves, but have not reported it. Just
because there is not a record of accidents doesn’t mean that there
haven’t been any. One serious accident could cause death. Is that
what the City is waiting for?
The existing very costly leaf program besides being very unsafe is
unreasonable and irresponsible because it rewards bad behavior and
penalizes good behavior. Landscape contractors who violate the law
have a financial competitive edge over law abiding contractors who
comply with the law. Consequently, potentially law abiding
contractors can’t afford to comply. Responsible citizens pay the same
taxes as irresponsible citizens, yet irresponsible citizens are
subsidized by the City. The existing leaf program is a liability to
all citizens, and only benefits some. In the 36 years that I have
lived in Eugene, I don’t ever recall the public being asked if we
would prefer to spend the money on the leaf program or would we rather
have a property tax cut, use the money to fix streets, or other uses
that benefit all citizens, and not just the irresponsible ones who
fail to properly take care of their own leaf situation.
Street trees are a valuable amenity to any city. Keeping them alive
sustainably is a community benefit. The leaves that a tree loses
every year are meant by nature to replenish the soil for the tree’s
health. Hauling the leaves away to some remote location is
undesirable. It creates an unhealthy soil environment that is then
augmented by environmentally and financially costly chemicals which is
clearly unsustainable. The leaves from the street trees need to be
composted and placed underneath the trees canopy from which they
came.
Allowing irresponsible citizens to place leaves on the street is not
much different than allowing them to place their personal garbage on
the streets for collection. We have containers and a collection
system to prevent that. We have cans and a collection system for yard
debris. It is unreasonable and irresponsible for the City to not
require them to be used for their intended purpose.
Currently, the City requires that citizens maintain the sidewalk and
public landscaped area in front of their properties. It is a
reasonable and responsible for the City to require property owners to
keep the street in front of their properties free of yard debris year
around including leaves.
The city has a very unsafe and financial liability due to its leaf
program. In order to solve the problem, one needs to adequately
define the problem, then seek reasonable solutions to solve the
problem. The problem is people putting leaves and other debris on the
street and bike lanes. The responsible and reasonable solution is to
stop them. This can be done through penalties and enforcement, not
looking the other way. The changes to the existing program for this
year worked out between the maintenance department and a handful of
cyclist is way short of solving the problem, though a tiny step in the
right direction. The solution that they derived failed to consider
the problem, and as a result only exasperates the problem by rewarding
bad behavior. And it is more costly than the responsible solution.
Prevent citizens from placing leaves on the street is responsible.
Picking them up faster due to complaints on designated bike lanes and
ignoring the rest of the streets where cyclists and automobile drivers
ride is irresponsible.
The biggest issue is that a handful of cyclists worked with the wrong
department to effect change. Therefore, the recommended solution is
infact a liability. The maintenance department does not have
enforcement authority. Instead of picking up the leaves placed on the
streets, the City should be fining people for placing them there.
There is already legal authority for the City to resolve this issue on
the books. Or, if necessary, minor rule changes can be implemented
under existing statutes. It is irresponsible for our City Management
style government to wait for the City Council to take action as they
already have the authority. On the other hand, it is irresponsible
for the City Council to not step up to the plate and take action if
the City staff fail to take action.
Other Cities do not allow placement of leaves on the street because of
the known liabilities. The City of Salem has a $250 fine for placing
leaves on the street. That should be enough to cover enforcement
action. I have a proposal that will make sure that the City doesn’t
incur a financial liability, and will save $400,000 for the leaf
collection program. Require citizens to keep the street in front of
their property clear of yard debris with a $250 fine for not doing
so. And add a sliding scale increasing the amount if the people
charged don’t just pay the ticket, and it ends up in court. They
should then be charged for the full costs to the City including court
costs. Of this $250, pay a person or organization a $50 fee on a
commission only basis such that they are not City Employees, but
independent subcontractors, to find, photograph, and document
violations. I will be glad to set up such and organization at no cost
to the City. Obviously this won’t provide gainful employment for a
long period of time, as residents will very soon get the message, and
comply with the law. However, $50 is enough incentive to make sure
that someone is monitoring the situation for years to come.
From what I understand, about half of the leaves that the City picks
up are delivered with all of their contamination to individuals and
community gardens. This program can still continue under a situation
where property owners are required to keep the street in front of
their property clear of debris including leaves with appropriate
penalties and enforcement. If property owners aren’t willing to
compost the leaves on site, then when they are hauled away, they can
be hauled to a location that requests the leaves just like now. This
would be less expensive than going to Lane Forest Products. The City
can continue to coordinate this program with their existing staff.
And the leaves will not contain the same contaminates such as oil and
grease that they get by residing on the streets for weeks. That’s
sensible and sustainable. The current program, even with this year’s
changes, is unreasonable and irresponsible.
Attached are photographs and their explanation proving the
ineffectiveness of the City’s voluntary compliance with their
suggested practices.
Photographs of Leaf Program Violations
All of the related photographs were taken a month to a month and a
half before the suggested date for placement of the leaves on the
streets. Obviously, it’s also easy to prove with the photographs that
leaves are placed such that they completely block water passage next
to the curb, are illegally placed in bike and traffic lanes, and are
placed where cars would park. Moreover, the piles regularly contain
prohibited items such as branches, grass clippings, and pine needles.
This means that they are all in violation of the City’s intent and
prove the City’s education program and voluntary compliance is a
failure. The photographs show several violations of the old program
such that they can’t be blamed on any change between this year and
last year that will take time to adjust to.
In areas where traffic lanes go to the curb with no parking, such as
E. 43rd, the City is unreasonable and irresponsible to allow leaves to
be clearly placed in the traffic lane where cyclists and vehicles
travel. These leaf piles get run over, strewn all over the street,
and pulverized into dangerous slippery slimy sludge similar in
traction to snow. The accompanying photographs are showing exactly
how this dangerous situation is occurring in the City. Besides being
dangerous to cyclists, if a child were to dart across the street, an
approaching vehicle would not be able to stop easily as it would skid
and slide. The child could be hit and killed.
I called the City to complain about this problem and have been
ignored. This is not one of their chosen bike lanes that get special
attention. Consequently, dangerous situations like this will continue
all over town for three months. On the same day that I called about
this problem (Monday Oct. 26), I also reported leaves being illegally
placed in bike lanes on Fox Hollow. To their credit, the City did get
out there Tuesday to clean up the problem areas. However, the next
day (Wednesday Oct 28), I saw a person at the Edge Wood Apartments
blowing leaves on the bike lane and street. How is the City going to
keep up with this, and at what expense? The same thing is happening
at other bike lane locations. So the City cleans up a mess one day,
and there’s another problem the next. All of the while they are
ignoring dangerous situations like E. 43rd. Myself and others have
been completely ignored by people violating the law when we explain to
them that it is not legal for them to be doing what they are doing.
And what about the City’s unreasonable request that leaves not be
placed within 15’ of a parked vehicle. So where in Eugene can a
person do that? That wipes out 30’ of potential parking (15’ in
front, and 15’ behind). The accompanying photographs show streets
where the entire block is filled with cars, leaving only the driveway
entrances as the only space in between. I have also included photos
of vehicles parked over leaf piles. Moreover, I have enclosed photos
of streets with bike lanes on both sides of the street. So that means
that property owners in these locations can’t participate in this
costly subsidized yard maintenance scheme. This is completely
unfair. Unless of course these property owners do what they have
always done, and that is to put leaves in the bike lanes and where
vehicles park. They are encouraged and rewarded for doing so by the
City’s actions.
bicycles as transportation, I request assistance in solving one of the
worse safety issues that we have. The issue is that leaves are placed
all over town where cyclists travel. That includes more than the core
bike lanes that the City has agreed to respond to and pick-up
illegally placed leaves. They have done so. But cyclists ride
everywhere. And cyclists are still encountering the safety issue from
the time the leaves are illegally placed until the time someone
complains, and the City gets out there to pick up the mess. And
hopefully you are complaining every time you see an illegal pile.
We are making clear progress but we can’t stop now. The City Council
and the City Manager needs to be bombarded with letters and emails.
The Council has recently decided to reexamine the use of tazers
because of public outcry. We need the same to happen for bicyclist
safety. So let’s cry loudly. The City has for the first time this
year even taken a position that leaves are a hazard and that citizens
are liable. But so is the City. They can’t sidestep the legal issue
which they are trying to do unless they actually start enforcing
existing laws. Currently they are trying to cover their legal behinds
by publically stating that people shouldn’t be putting leaves in
travel lanes. But until they start enforcing the law, rather than
picking up the leaves faster, they are still liable
Attached is a formal complaint that I have made to the City regarding
their leaf program. The leaf photographs attachment is not attached
as the file was too big and it was rejected. I have also written the
Council a few times. You need to file a complaint yourself if you
want to move further in the right direction. We have the momentum
working for us now. Don’t let the opportunity slip away.
And so far, we have all been guilty of focusing our attention on the
City. The County has a leaf collection program similar to the City in
the unincorporated areas such as the River Road area. We need to
start putting the same pressure on the County that we have done to the
City. Write your County Commissioner and County Administrator.
I couldn't figure out how to do an attachment to this site, so I
copied the memorandum below:
MEMORANDUM
DATE: November 6, 2009
TO: Kurt Corey, Director of Public Works, City of Eugene
FROM: Gary W. Cook, 4284 Bent Tree, Eugene, OR
CC: City Manger Jon Ruiz, Mayor Kitty Piercy
RE: Formal Complaint Regarding City Leaf Program
As a public citizen, I would like to file a formal complaint against
the City’s leaf collection policy that is clearly creating hazards to
its citizens. I believe that City staff promote and encourage citizens
to break laws that prohibit the placement of hazards in roadways
during all other times of the year when they allow and even promote
leaf piles in the streets. For years the City has failed to enforce
these nuisance laws and other laws making it a violation to block
traffic lanes for both automobiles and cyclists. By looking the other
way, they have wasted tax payer money by cleaning up the mess.
Consequently, this has gone on so long that many citizens who
regularly violate the law probably think that it’s an acceptable thing
to do. And it’s perfectly clear that the City’s “education program” is
ineffective, or there wouldn’t be all the law violations that have
existed, and will continue to exist, unless City management or the
Council takes action or the City gets sued. The accompanying
photographs and explanation prove that even though the City is
attempting to change things through voluntary compliance, it is
ineffective.
Absolute and clear steps need to be taken now to prevent the City
from intentionally creating hazards for its citizens this year and
beyond. By failing to take action, the Council and City staff are
subjecting the City to lawsuit which they surely can’t win if someone
gets injured. These violations are now so engrained that it will take
substantially more action to change the behavior. My suggested
solution to the problem is the enthusiastic application of a system of
fines to those who are creating these road and bicycle hazards by
piling leaves on the streets. The fines collected could more than fund
the program, and the word would likely get out quickly that the City
is serious about “safety first”. Moreover, Substantial savings can be
achieved as the maintenance crews will have substantially less leaves
and contraband to deal with.
Recently a cyclist crashed due to leaves and broke his hip on Lorane
Hwy. This was outside the Eugene City limits so that the City is not
liable in this situation, but could have been. Other cyclists have
fallen due to slipping on leaves, but have not reported it. Just
because there is not a record of accidents doesn’t mean that there
haven’t been any. One serious accident could cause death. Is that
what the City is waiting for?
The existing very costly leaf program besides being very unsafe is
unreasonable and irresponsible because it rewards bad behavior and
penalizes good behavior. Landscape contractors who violate the law
have a financial competitive edge over law abiding contractors who
comply with the law. Consequently, potentially law abiding
contractors can’t afford to comply. Responsible citizens pay the same
taxes as irresponsible citizens, yet irresponsible citizens are
subsidized by the City. The existing leaf program is a liability to
all citizens, and only benefits some. In the 36 years that I have
lived in Eugene, I don’t ever recall the public being asked if we
would prefer to spend the money on the leaf program or would we rather
have a property tax cut, use the money to fix streets, or other uses
that benefit all citizens, and not just the irresponsible ones who
fail to properly take care of their own leaf situation.
Street trees are a valuable amenity to any city. Keeping them alive
sustainably is a community benefit. The leaves that a tree loses
every year are meant by nature to replenish the soil for the tree’s
health. Hauling the leaves away to some remote location is
undesirable. It creates an unhealthy soil environment that is then
augmented by environmentally and financially costly chemicals which is
clearly unsustainable. The leaves from the street trees need to be
composted and placed underneath the trees canopy from which they
came.
Allowing irresponsible citizens to place leaves on the street is not
much different than allowing them to place their personal garbage on
the streets for collection. We have containers and a collection
system to prevent that. We have cans and a collection system for yard
debris. It is unreasonable and irresponsible for the City to not
require them to be used for their intended purpose.
Currently, the City requires that citizens maintain the sidewalk and
public landscaped area in front of their properties. It is a
reasonable and responsible for the City to require property owners to
keep the street in front of their properties free of yard debris year
around including leaves.
The city has a very unsafe and financial liability due to its leaf
program. In order to solve the problem, one needs to adequately
define the problem, then seek reasonable solutions to solve the
problem. The problem is people putting leaves and other debris on the
street and bike lanes. The responsible and reasonable solution is to
stop them. This can be done through penalties and enforcement, not
looking the other way. The changes to the existing program for this
year worked out between the maintenance department and a handful of
cyclist is way short of solving the problem, though a tiny step in the
right direction. The solution that they derived failed to consider
the problem, and as a result only exasperates the problem by rewarding
bad behavior. And it is more costly than the responsible solution.
Prevent citizens from placing leaves on the street is responsible.
Picking them up faster due to complaints on designated bike lanes and
ignoring the rest of the streets where cyclists and automobile drivers
ride is irresponsible.
The biggest issue is that a handful of cyclists worked with the wrong
department to effect change. Therefore, the recommended solution is
infact a liability. The maintenance department does not have
enforcement authority. Instead of picking up the leaves placed on the
streets, the City should be fining people for placing them there.
There is already legal authority for the City to resolve this issue on
the books. Or, if necessary, minor rule changes can be implemented
under existing statutes. It is irresponsible for our City Management
style government to wait for the City Council to take action as they
already have the authority. On the other hand, it is irresponsible
for the City Council to not step up to the plate and take action if
the City staff fail to take action.
Other Cities do not allow placement of leaves on the street because of
the known liabilities. The City of Salem has a $250 fine for placing
leaves on the street. That should be enough to cover enforcement
action. I have a proposal that will make sure that the City doesn’t
incur a financial liability, and will save $400,000 for the leaf
collection program. Require citizens to keep the street in front of
their property clear of yard debris with a $250 fine for not doing
so. And add a sliding scale increasing the amount if the people
charged don’t just pay the ticket, and it ends up in court. They
should then be charged for the full costs to the City including court
costs. Of this $250, pay a person or organization a $50 fee on a
commission only basis such that they are not City Employees, but
independent subcontractors, to find, photograph, and document
violations. I will be glad to set up such and organization at no cost
to the City. Obviously this won’t provide gainful employment for a
long period of time, as residents will very soon get the message, and
comply with the law. However, $50 is enough incentive to make sure
that someone is monitoring the situation for years to come.
From what I understand, about half of the leaves that the City picks
up are delivered with all of their contamination to individuals and
community gardens. This program can still continue under a situation
where property owners are required to keep the street in front of
their property clear of debris including leaves with appropriate
penalties and enforcement. If property owners aren’t willing to
compost the leaves on site, then when they are hauled away, they can
be hauled to a location that requests the leaves just like now. This
would be less expensive than going to Lane Forest Products. The City
can continue to coordinate this program with their existing staff.
And the leaves will not contain the same contaminates such as oil and
grease that they get by residing on the streets for weeks. That’s
sensible and sustainable. The current program, even with this year’s
changes, is unreasonable and irresponsible.
Attached are photographs and their explanation proving the
ineffectiveness of the City’s voluntary compliance with their
suggested practices.
Photographs of Leaf Program Violations
All of the related photographs were taken a month to a month and a
half before the suggested date for placement of the leaves on the
streets. Obviously, it’s also easy to prove with the photographs that
leaves are placed such that they completely block water passage next
to the curb, are illegally placed in bike and traffic lanes, and are
placed where cars would park. Moreover, the piles regularly contain
prohibited items such as branches, grass clippings, and pine needles.
This means that they are all in violation of the City’s intent and
prove the City’s education program and voluntary compliance is a
failure. The photographs show several violations of the old program
such that they can’t be blamed on any change between this year and
last year that will take time to adjust to.
In areas where traffic lanes go to the curb with no parking, such as
E. 43rd, the City is unreasonable and irresponsible to allow leaves to
be clearly placed in the traffic lane where cyclists and vehicles
travel. These leaf piles get run over, strewn all over the street,
and pulverized into dangerous slippery slimy sludge similar in
traction to snow. The accompanying photographs are showing exactly
how this dangerous situation is occurring in the City. Besides being
dangerous to cyclists, if a child were to dart across the street, an
approaching vehicle would not be able to stop easily as it would skid
and slide. The child could be hit and killed.
I called the City to complain about this problem and have been
ignored. This is not one of their chosen bike lanes that get special
attention. Consequently, dangerous situations like this will continue
all over town for three months. On the same day that I called about
this problem (Monday Oct. 26), I also reported leaves being illegally
placed in bike lanes on Fox Hollow. To their credit, the City did get
out there Tuesday to clean up the problem areas. However, the next
day (Wednesday Oct 28), I saw a person at the Edge Wood Apartments
blowing leaves on the bike lane and street. How is the City going to
keep up with this, and at what expense? The same thing is happening
at other bike lane locations. So the City cleans up a mess one day,
and there’s another problem the next. All of the while they are
ignoring dangerous situations like E. 43rd. Myself and others have
been completely ignored by people violating the law when we explain to
them that it is not legal for them to be doing what they are doing.
And what about the City’s unreasonable request that leaves not be
placed within 15’ of a parked vehicle. So where in Eugene can a
person do that? That wipes out 30’ of potential parking (15’ in
front, and 15’ behind). The accompanying photographs show streets
where the entire block is filled with cars, leaving only the driveway
entrances as the only space in between. I have also included photos
of vehicles parked over leaf piles. Moreover, I have enclosed photos
of streets with bike lanes on both sides of the street. So that means
that property owners in these locations can’t participate in this
costly subsidized yard maintenance scheme. This is completely
unfair. Unless of course these property owners do what they have
always done, and that is to put leaves in the bike lanes and where
vehicles park. They are encouraged and rewarded for doing so by the
City’s actions.
Shane Rhodes
Nov 24, 2009, 7:01:18 PM11/24/09
to GEARs
While I appreciate Gary's desire to see the program evolve and change I'm not sure this is the best tact to take.
If individual folks want to write letters with concerns about the leaf program that is great. However, I'll give some perspective from my point of view on the program so far.
GEARs worked WITH the city a lot this year to implement the changes that we have seen.
Yes, there are changes that still need to occur and enforcement is certainly one of them.
I think the momentum that is working with us is not one of "we complained and they took action so let's complain some more". The momentum is one of "we worked together and we got part way there... let's keep working together towards greater change." The squeaky wheel does tend to get the grease but then I think it gets tuned out and the next time it squeaks it may not have as much impact.
As someone who has worked on changing this program I certainly disagree with the comment "The biggest issue is that a handful of cyclists worked with the wrong department to effect change. Therefore, the recommended solution is infact a liability." I've always said enforcement was an issue but the Public Works department telling people to put leaves in the bike lanes had to be dealt with first and we've come a long way in that arena (have you seen the website, call in number, bus ads, flyers, and mailers?). It certainly is not more of a liability than it was previously, I think it's been a better year so far.
I do agree that more work needs to be done with the county. That could and should be part of our plan for the coming year.
As you write your letters I ask that you consider what has happened and what can happen with an engaged and non-defensive group working together.
As they say, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar".
Shane
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GEARs" group.
To post to this group, send email to Greater-Eugen...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Greater-Eugene-Area...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Greater-Eugene-Area-Riders?hl=en.
Paul Moore
Nov 24, 2009, 7:26:50 PM11/24/09
to garywa...@gmail.com, GEARs Google Group
Gary,
It is amazing how many facets of the leaves in lanes conversation you
have been able to bring up in one letter!
While I'm not fully on board with every twist and turn of your solution,
I find myself in agreement or alignment with many aspects of your
analysis of the problem. I too applaud the public works department for
taking a more determined stance in getting leaves out of the lanes, but
question the cost and long-term viability of a solution which only
treats the symptoms. And I question their ability to properly choose
which symptoms need to be treated - which bike lanes require clearing
and which don't.
Historically we have trained people to put the leaves in the lanes. I
agree that there isn't enough going on to re-train people to keep all
lanes clear and therefore we are in for more of the same for years to come.
Certainly the good news is that some progress has been made and that the
subject is deemed worthy of discussion by more than a handful of cyclists.
Paul Moore
Arriving By Bike(TM)
"Urban Cycling Outfitters"
2705 Willamette St.
Eugene, OR 97405
541-484-5410
>--
>
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups "GEARs" group.
>To post to this group, send email to Greater-Eugene-Area-
>
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups "GEARs" group.
>Rid...@googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Greater-Eugene-Area-Riders
>+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
jkd...@comcast.net
Nov 24, 2009, 9:24:01 PM11/24/09
to sha...@mac.com, GEARs
I bet the grass seed farmers worked with the city fathers in he beginning,,, is this where we are heading in 5 years,,, jim
Seager
Nov 25, 2009, 2:10:22 AM11/25/09
to GEARs
I would like to offer a short perspective on this issue, having talked
to several violators myself. I've either talked to personally or
called a little over 10 businesses and individuals after they blocked
the bike lane. My goal has always been to educate and argue my point,
but to back off the second they become defensive since we all are
ambassadors for cycling. I say my peace, I say thank you, and I leave
on good terms. That's more important than them agreeing with me.
The people I've talked to have invariably said the same types of
things. First, they've not understood the new rules. They say "The
bike lane is fine, the city cleans it up," "it's only part of the bike
lane," or in some cases "my landscaper puts it there, it always gets
picked up." To this I reply "It's different this year, and it's
picked up often because we call in complaints." (of course this shows
that we are rewarding the bad behavior)
They then move to "My yard waste bins are full" or "Where else can I
put them?" To that I don't have much of an answer. Try telling
someone that they should compost, or re-arrange their lawn to
accommodate a pile of leaves. They often don't take it well. I
respond with "There are a lot of options on the cities website and
such," and then I change the subject. The fact is composting and
things like that have a "hippie connotation" and it's really not
something many people see as something that they are ever going to
do. We need to understand that not everyone thinks like us. I
actually avoid saying the word "compost" in all of these discussions
because I don't want to be blown off.
What I change the subject to is "I totally understand what you're
saying, it does suck - but I just wanted to give you a heads up that
the law puts you in a sticky situation with liability, and that the
city is probably going to start writing tickets for it this year."
Now, that last part I'm not sure about, but let me tell you that this
is when they start paying attention. I follow up by saying "it
probably won't happen, but they could and I'd hate for that to happen
to anyone."
At this point I say thanks, we sometimes make small talk, and I
leave. With hope they will think about our discussion next time.
What are the take home points? First, these are good people and many
just don't understand. Second, they NEED a viable option other than
composting. Third, people won't change convenient behavior unless
that behavior ceases to become convenient (punishment) or another
behavior becomes more desirable (reward.) I firmly believe that
ticketing and fines needs to happen, but I also firmly believe that we
NEED to give these people another option besides composting and tiny
yard waste bins before we do. We also might want to couple this other
option with a reward (tax break?) to make it more desirable.
Otherwise the cyclist community will be seen as angry, selfish,
vindictive people who are lobbying to fine the common person who is
just trying to live. We CANNOT afford that stigma. We MUST work WITH
people or we loose all ground for future efforts.
> ...
>
> read more »
to several violators myself. I've either talked to personally or
called a little over 10 businesses and individuals after they blocked
the bike lane. My goal has always been to educate and argue my point,
but to back off the second they become defensive since we all are
ambassadors for cycling. I say my peace, I say thank you, and I leave
on good terms. That's more important than them agreeing with me.
The people I've talked to have invariably said the same types of
things. First, they've not understood the new rules. They say "The
bike lane is fine, the city cleans it up," "it's only part of the bike
lane," or in some cases "my landscaper puts it there, it always gets
picked up." To this I reply "It's different this year, and it's
picked up often because we call in complaints." (of course this shows
that we are rewarding the bad behavior)
They then move to "My yard waste bins are full" or "Where else can I
put them?" To that I don't have much of an answer. Try telling
someone that they should compost, or re-arrange their lawn to
accommodate a pile of leaves. They often don't take it well. I
respond with "There are a lot of options on the cities website and
such," and then I change the subject. The fact is composting and
things like that have a "hippie connotation" and it's really not
something many people see as something that they are ever going to
do. We need to understand that not everyone thinks like us. I
actually avoid saying the word "compost" in all of these discussions
because I don't want to be blown off.
What I change the subject to is "I totally understand what you're
saying, it does suck - but I just wanted to give you a heads up that
the law puts you in a sticky situation with liability, and that the
city is probably going to start writing tickets for it this year."
Now, that last part I'm not sure about, but let me tell you that this
is when they start paying attention. I follow up by saying "it
probably won't happen, but they could and I'd hate for that to happen
to anyone."
At this point I say thanks, we sometimes make small talk, and I
leave. With hope they will think about our discussion next time.
What are the take home points? First, these are good people and many
just don't understand. Second, they NEED a viable option other than
composting. Third, people won't change convenient behavior unless
that behavior ceases to become convenient (punishment) or another
behavior becomes more desirable (reward.) I firmly believe that
ticketing and fines needs to happen, but I also firmly believe that we
NEED to give these people another option besides composting and tiny
yard waste bins before we do. We also might want to couple this other
option with a reward (tax break?) to make it more desirable.
Otherwise the cyclist community will be seen as angry, selfish,
vindictive people who are lobbying to fine the common person who is
just trying to live. We CANNOT afford that stigma. We MUST work WITH
people or we loose all ground for future efforts.
>
> read more »
Shane Rhodes
Nov 25, 2009, 1:00:11 PM11/25/09
to GEARs
Excellent points Mike, thank you!
I think this is exactly the direction we need to keep moving.
We've helped make some changes this year and we need to continue the work towards positive shifts in attitudes and behavior.
Shane
Richard Hughes
Nov 25, 2009, 3:07:51 PM11/25/09
to dre...@gmail.com, GEARs
Well stated.Thank you.
Sue
Nov 25, 2009, 5:28:28 PM11/25/09
to GEARs
I absolutely agree, and thank you for your work, Mike. I think we
would gain a lot more by making progress on the leaf issue and
remaining in the public eye as a constructive, safety-minded group of
citizens that listens to the views of others, than we would be trying
to beat the City over the head demanding that we get 100% of what we
want, NOW--which we're not likely to get anyway. I certainly support
re-evaluating this year's approach with the City toward the end of the
leaf season to see how well it worked, how much it cost, and what
better alternatives exist--but for now I think the combination of
reporting leaf problems promptly when we see them, documenting the
problems and the City's response in photos when possible, speaking one-
on-one with residents and lawn-care companies when tje opportunity
arises, and thinking of alternatives that might appeal to residents
and to the City is our best bet. Besides, when the City notices that
it repeatedly gets calls concerning the same few addresses, they might
very well opt for more enforcement on their own--which would be more
effective than their doing it to pacify cyclists.
Sue
On Nov 25, 2:07 pm, Richard Hughes <hughes97...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Greater-Eugene-Area...@googlegroups.com<Greater-Eugene-Area-Riders%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
would gain a lot more by making progress on the leaf issue and
remaining in the public eye as a constructive, safety-minded group of
citizens that listens to the views of others, than we would be trying
to beat the City over the head demanding that we get 100% of what we
want, NOW--which we're not likely to get anyway. I certainly support
re-evaluating this year's approach with the City toward the end of the
leaf season to see how well it worked, how much it cost, and what
better alternatives exist--but for now I think the combination of
reporting leaf problems promptly when we see them, documenting the
problems and the City's response in photos when possible, speaking one-
on-one with residents and lawn-care companies when tje opportunity
arises, and thinking of alternatives that might appeal to residents
and to the City is our best bet. Besides, when the City notices that
it repeatedly gets calls concerning the same few addresses, they might
very well opt for more enforcement on their own--which would be more
effective than their doing it to pacify cyclists.
Sue
On Nov 25, 2:07 pm, Richard Hughes <hughes97...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > .
Butidigress
Nov 25, 2009, 6:14:42 PM11/25/09
to GEARs
Great! You have put a lot of effort into this. And I personally
thank you. This change in thinking about leaves would require quite a
"sea change" in the thinking around here. But then, every journey
begins with a single step. The time has come for the city and county
to think this through from scratch. This reminds me of ordinances in
many snow-bound cities requiring home owners to keep their side-walks
cleared for the general good of the public. ~ Tom
thank you. This change in thinking about leaves would require quite a
"sea change" in the thinking around here. But then, every journey
begins with a single step. The time has come for the city and county
to think this through from scratch. This reminds me of ordinances in
many snow-bound cities requiring home owners to keep their side-walks
cleared for the general good of the public. ~ Tom
Seager
Nov 25, 2009, 8:42:38 PM11/25/09
to GEARs
I have an update to how the city is thinking about this issue than I
can deliver. I think the fact that there are people becoming
frustrated with the issue and wanting to do more themselves is
testament to the need for more transparency and updates into the
city's thinking. I, being hardly "plugged in", felt this same
frustration so I e-mailed Lee Shoemaker (The Bike/Ped coordinator for
Eugene) to get more information. I'm not involved in any of the
advocacy, but I ride a lot so I like to know what's going on. With
his permission I'll share some of his response here so that we all can
feel better about how the situation is being handled.
(On a side note I feel that we have a real need for some dedicated
reporting on Eugene bike issues similar to bikeportland.org to prevent
things like this in the future, and this is partially where I'm going
to be focusing my efforts in the months to come.)
The e-mail I sent Lee addressed two issues: The first: Why haven't I
received my postcard educating me about keeping the bike lanes clear
since I live on Fox Hollow, a high priority lane? And the second
issue I've already addressed: The need for us to stop rewarding the
bad behavior of bike lane abusers.
Here is a summary and some quotes from his response:
"On Oct. 20, we mailed approximately 1,700 postcard to owners of
developed property along 25 miles of high priority curbside bike lanes
(copy of postcard attached). The message was: "Whatever you do, keep
bike lanes clear. Eugene Code prohibits the obstruction of bike or
travel lanes with leaves or other debris. And, property owners are
liable for any injuries or damage that result from placing materials
in the street."
He then explained that I didn't receive my post card because I rent,
and the cards were sent to the property owners. Aha! We have
identified a problem that can be solved in the future!
As for enforcement, he had this to say: "Our maintenance crews have a
doorhanger/notice that they use to notify egregious or repeat
offenders. The notice includes information that placing debris in the
street is a violation of Eugene Code. However, their biggest effort is
on removing the leaves."
This is a step in the right direction - and only a step. He made it
clear that they will be re-evaluating the success of the program at
the end of the year. The more we report blocked lanes the more data
they will have. Here is his advice:
"Our advice is to continue to use online "leaves in the bike lane"
service request form at: www.eugene-or.gov/leaf and clicking on the
Bike Lane Service Request button or by calling 682-5383. I agree that
it would be better if people did not put leaves in the bike lane in
the first place but it's important that we get the leaves out soon
because it may be a safety issue."
"We recommend that anyone who's struggling to cope with leaves in bike
lanes (both cyclists with concerns and property owners who are
frustrated because they don't know what to do with their leaves if
they can't put them in the street if there's a curbside bike lane) is
to call Eric Johnson or Damon Joyner at 682-4800 and speak directly to
one of the leaf program supervisors. We recognize that we're going
through a period of adjustment, and Eric and Damon will handle some of
these situations one-on-one."
And finally, in a followup e-mail he had this to say about our
feedback:
"I share all of the messages I get personally and through the GEARS
google group with our maintenance supervisors so we can evaluate the
new system and make improvements. We really count on the feedback.
Our Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Committee meets on the 2nd
Thursday of each month at 5:30 p.m. and there is a public comment
period at the beginning of each meeting for people to comment on any
bicycle and pedestrian topic."
In summary: They know. They know that this current system isn't
perfect, and they've heard and continue to hear our concerns. They
are going to re-evaluate after the season (no doubt with the help of
Paul, Shane, Sue, Jim and whomever else the movers and shakers happen
to be.) Also, the proper channels for most effective feedback are
contacting the leaf supervisors, contacting him, contacting your
favorite GEARS representative, and attending bike/ped meetings and
utilizing the public comment period. Things like the R-G opinion page
are better left for winning the hearts and minds of the public rather
than convincing policy makers.
can deliver. I think the fact that there are people becoming
frustrated with the issue and wanting to do more themselves is
testament to the need for more transparency and updates into the
city's thinking. I, being hardly "plugged in", felt this same
frustration so I e-mailed Lee Shoemaker (The Bike/Ped coordinator for
Eugene) to get more information. I'm not involved in any of the
advocacy, but I ride a lot so I like to know what's going on. With
his permission I'll share some of his response here so that we all can
feel better about how the situation is being handled.
(On a side note I feel that we have a real need for some dedicated
reporting on Eugene bike issues similar to bikeportland.org to prevent
things like this in the future, and this is partially where I'm going
to be focusing my efforts in the months to come.)
The e-mail I sent Lee addressed two issues: The first: Why haven't I
received my postcard educating me about keeping the bike lanes clear
since I live on Fox Hollow, a high priority lane? And the second
issue I've already addressed: The need for us to stop rewarding the
bad behavior of bike lane abusers.
Here is a summary and some quotes from his response:
"On Oct. 20, we mailed approximately 1,700 postcard to owners of
developed property along 25 miles of high priority curbside bike lanes
(copy of postcard attached). The message was: "Whatever you do, keep
bike lanes clear. Eugene Code prohibits the obstruction of bike or
travel lanes with leaves or other debris. And, property owners are
liable for any injuries or damage that result from placing materials
in the street."
He then explained that I didn't receive my post card because I rent,
and the cards were sent to the property owners. Aha! We have
identified a problem that can be solved in the future!
As for enforcement, he had this to say: "Our maintenance crews have a
doorhanger/notice that they use to notify egregious or repeat
offenders. The notice includes information that placing debris in the
street is a violation of Eugene Code. However, their biggest effort is
on removing the leaves."
This is a step in the right direction - and only a step. He made it
clear that they will be re-evaluating the success of the program at
the end of the year. The more we report blocked lanes the more data
they will have. Here is his advice:
"Our advice is to continue to use online "leaves in the bike lane"
service request form at: www.eugene-or.gov/leaf and clicking on the
Bike Lane Service Request button or by calling 682-5383. I agree that
it would be better if people did not put leaves in the bike lane in
the first place but it's important that we get the leaves out soon
because it may be a safety issue."
"We recommend that anyone who's struggling to cope with leaves in bike
lanes (both cyclists with concerns and property owners who are
frustrated because they don't know what to do with their leaves if
they can't put them in the street if there's a curbside bike lane) is
to call Eric Johnson or Damon Joyner at 682-4800 and speak directly to
one of the leaf program supervisors. We recognize that we're going
through a period of adjustment, and Eric and Damon will handle some of
these situations one-on-one."
And finally, in a followup e-mail he had this to say about our
feedback:
"I share all of the messages I get personally and through the GEARS
google group with our maintenance supervisors so we can evaluate the
new system and make improvements. We really count on the feedback.
Our Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Committee meets on the 2nd
Thursday of each month at 5:30 p.m. and there is a public comment
period at the beginning of each meeting for people to comment on any
bicycle and pedestrian topic."
In summary: They know. They know that this current system isn't
perfect, and they've heard and continue to hear our concerns. They
are going to re-evaluate after the season (no doubt with the help of
Paul, Shane, Sue, Jim and whomever else the movers and shakers happen
to be.) Also, the proper channels for most effective feedback are
contacting the leaf supervisors, contacting him, contacting your
favorite GEARS representative, and attending bike/ped meetings and
utilizing the public comment period. Things like the R-G opinion page
are better left for winning the hearts and minds of the public rather
than convincing policy makers.
Jim Wilcox
Nov 25, 2009, 9:07:58 PM11/25/09
to GEARs
Let's say cyclists wanted city officials to enforce a law designed to
protect cyclists. Would it matter if that law made it an offense to
obstruct a bike lane with leaves versus a law that required cyclists to
obey traffic lights, stop signs and use a light at night?
Because I have actively sought to reach out to groups typically not
pro-bike, I have had to face a lot of criticisms of cyclists for wanting
respect without showing respect. When I am asked why some cyclists seem
so radicalized, I respond that they don't speak for the majority that
aren't angry. I often go on to tell them that I am sympathetic of those
who have not, or cannot enjoy the pleasure, financial benefits or health
benefits of cycling. And I hope, that over time, if they see me as
really as just like them, and not part of "group", they will be more
willing to make biking a normal part of their life.
I have to admit, however, that my conversion rate at this point is less
than I had hoped.
protect cyclists. Would it matter if that law made it an offense to
obstruct a bike lane with leaves versus a law that required cyclists to
obey traffic lights, stop signs and use a light at night?
Because I have actively sought to reach out to groups typically not
pro-bike, I have had to face a lot of criticisms of cyclists for wanting
respect without showing respect. When I am asked why some cyclists seem
so radicalized, I respond that they don't speak for the majority that
aren't angry. I often go on to tell them that I am sympathetic of those
who have not, or cannot enjoy the pleasure, financial benefits or health
benefits of cycling. And I hope, that over time, if they see me as
really as just like them, and not part of "group", they will be more
willing to make biking a normal part of their life.
I have to admit, however, that my conversion rate at this point is less
than I had hoped.
Seager
Nov 25, 2009, 9:47:52 PM11/25/09
to GEARs
Yes. Convincing people that we are the same and not different is
key. People show empathy and compassion to those who share the same
"group" as them, and tend to dehumanize those in different "groups."
It's human nature to divide the world into "Us vs. Them."
This is why I particularly like the (fairly unscientific) study that
show that 90% of cyclists in Oregon own and drive cars. (
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/nearly_90_percent_of_oregon_bi.html
) When trying to convince people that cyclists aren't "hippie
militant douchebags who want special rights and always break the
law" (that quote is an aggregate of insults I've heard) I like to pull
out that statistic. I wish it had been around for the Idaho Stop
conversation.
key. People show empathy and compassion to those who share the same
"group" as them, and tend to dehumanize those in different "groups."
It's human nature to divide the world into "Us vs. Them."
This is why I particularly like the (fairly unscientific) study that
show that 90% of cyclists in Oregon own and drive cars. (
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/nearly_90_percent_of_oregon_bi.html
) When trying to convince people that cyclists aren't "hippie
militant douchebags who want special rights and always break the
law" (that quote is an aggregate of insults I've heard) I like to pull
out that statistic. I wish it had been around for the Idaho Stop
conversation.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages