Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
(or incompetent) SEOs?
I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
need help to make sure that things are right.
Never really given this any thought before. I think I would suggest
doing a search for SEO locally first; anyone who says they're experts
in the field should have a well-performing website. Local because they
would hopefuly have a reputation to maintain.
I would then (as the client) get a bit sneaky and be totally clueless,
and reluctant to let the SEO access the site. If he says no problem,
then it's obviously going to be all off the page and any benefits will
disappear once the money runs out. If he needs to access the site to
optimise the pages then he's obviously going along the right lines,
and it's then you have to decide if you trust these people.
Ask for costings, what sort of guarantees can they offer on results
(obviously nothing on organic search so any guarantees are based on
advertising) and specify Google as the preferred Search Engine.
Also ask leading questions about link directories, paid links, all
sorts of entrapment! But, of course, we've got a fairly good handle
on what is legit, what works, and what is really bad for a site,
unlike the innocent webmaster who might well fall for the snakeoil.
Tell him to ask for prices, examples of sites they have worked on and
permission to speak to the site owners. Then try and find the sites
under the terms which he would, as a user think appropriate.
Possibly, by then, you have so disarmed the webmaster with your
transparent honesty, integrity and profound knowledge that he gives
you the job :-)
> Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> (or incompetent) SEOs?
> I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> need help to make sure that things are right.
> Never really given this any thought before. I think I would suggest
> doing a search for SEO locally first; anyone who says they're experts
> in the field should have a well-performing website. Local because they
> would hopefuly have a reputation to maintain.
> I would then (as the client) get a bit sneaky and be totally clueless,
> and reluctant to let the SEO access the site. If he says no problem,
> then it's obviously going to be all off the page and any benefits will
> disappear once the money runs out. If he needs to access the site to
> optimise the pages then he's obviously going along the right lines,
> and it's then you have to decide if you trust these people.
> Ask for costings, what sort of guarantees can they offer on results
> (obviously nothing on organic search so any guarantees are based on
> advertising) and specify Google as the preferred Search Engine.
> Also ask leading questions about link directories, paid links, all
> sorts of entrapment! But, of course, we've got a fairly good handle
> on what is legit, what works, and what is really bad for a site,
> unlike the innocent webmaster who might well fall for the snakeoil.
> Tell him to ask for prices, examples of sites they have worked on and
> permission to speak to the site owners. Then try and find the sites
> under the terms which he would, as a user think appropriate.
> Possibly, by then, you have so disarmed the webmaster with your
> transparent honesty, integrity and profound knowledge that he gives
> you the job :-)
> > Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> > someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> > you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> > Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> > (or incompetent) SEOs?
> > I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> > yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> > need help to make sure that things are right.
Great idea, John! I can't wait to hear what people say. Becky,
although I think most of everything you suggest is on-point, I don't
think you understand something very important about off-page SEO.
Benefits from off-page efforts do not die when the money runs out.
Just because you aren't paying your SEO company anymore for link
development doesn't mean the links they developed while working for
you will simply dissappear. It frightens me that someone who seemingly
has a grasp on the fundamentals of SEO doesn't recognize that. That
sounds rude but it's not meant to be. It honestly worries me a bit.
But be careful about the misleading questions though. It's very easy
to tell when someone's doing that and it can actually help the smarter
"snakeoil" types to better profile you. If they know what you do know
about the shady stuff, then they'll know what you don't know as well.
> Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> (or incompetent) SEOs?
> I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> need help to make sure that things are right.
Hi everybody
I am not a professional webmaster I am 70 years old and did not get
into computing until about 91 and have never had a tutor only books,
and books or tutorials always seem to assume that you know more than
you do, i just use logic i have just built a site for a friend
www.raistrickahaw.co.uk and when i ran it by whois seo it came out at
98% allowing for errors it is not bad for an old man,how I envy you
young guns, I just wish I had, had somebody looking over my shoulder
and telling me what i was doing wrong. I canonly build basic websites
I love flash for headers but I am lost with java script. webado has
tried to enlighten me but i think i finished up trying her patience
and she is brilliant
, my own site www.floridahotelblackpool.co.uk comes in at 2 or 3 for
the search term, blackpool central hotels, or hotels in central
blackpool, out of about a million combinations, so you see i have a
lot of competition.
Sorry I know I got off subject a bit but my advice is use common sence
> Great idea, John! I can't wait to hear what people say. Becky,
> although I think most of everything you suggest is on-point, I don't
> think you understand something very important about off-page SEO.
> Benefits from off-page efforts do not die when the money runs out.
> Just because you aren't paying your SEO company anymore for link
> development doesn't mean the links they developed while working for
> you will simply dissappear. It frightens me that someone who seemingly
> has a grasp on the fundamentals of SEO doesn't recognize that. That
> sounds rude but it's not meant to be. It honestly worries me a bit.
> But be careful about the misleading questions though. It's very easy
> to tell when someone's doing that and it can actually help the smarter
> "snakeoil" types to better profile you. If they know what you do know
> about the shady stuff, then they'll know what you don't know as well.
> > Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> > someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> > you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> > Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> > (or incompetent) SEOs?
> > I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> > yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> > need help to make sure that things are right.
I got something out of it, yorky, so thanks! I've got a question for
you. Would you ever consider paying an SEO company to get you up on
those terms? Judging by your site, it's clear that you've done some
reading on the basics of seo but when it comes right down to it, every
webmaster who is serious about competing on Google really should hire
a professional. I ask because I'm noticing more and more webmasters
share your perspective on SEO, which (and this is just an assumption -
please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you can do it yourself. At the
risk of sounding rude, I just don't have time for these types of
clients and I turn them down on the spot. My point is that just
because I don't want to work with you doesn't mean it's because you
know a thing or two about SEO. It's because you think you do. So, my
humble tip for webmasters (site owners) is to make sure that you are
qualified to determine the SEO's competency or you could miss out on a
great find.
> Hi everybody
> I am not a professional webmaster I am 70 years old and did not get
> into computing until about 91 and have never had a tutor only books,
> and books or tutorials always seem to assume that you know more than
> you do, i just use logic i have just built a site for a friendwww.raistrickahaw.co.ukand when i ran it by whois seo it came out at
> 98% allowing for errors it is not bad for an old man,how I envy you
> young guns, I just wish I had, had somebody looking over my shoulder
> and telling me what i was doing wrong. I canonly build basic websites
> I love flash for headers but I am lost with java script. webado has
> tried to enlighten me but i think i finished up trying her patience
> and she is brilliant
> , my own sitewww.floridahotelblackpool.co.ukcomes in at 2 or 3 for
> the search term, blackpool central hotels, or hotels in central
> blackpool, out of about a million combinations, so you see i have a
> lot of competition.
> Sorry I know I got off subject a bit but my advice is use common sence
> On Jul 3, 7:25 pm, Adam Moro wrote:
> > Great idea, John! I can't wait to hear what people say. Becky,
> > although I think most of everything you suggest is on-point, I don't
> > think you understand something very important about off-page SEO.
> > Benefits from off-page efforts do not die when the money runs out.
> > Just because you aren't paying your SEO company anymore for link
> > development doesn't mean the links they developed while working for
> > you will simply dissappear. It frightens me that someone who seemingly
> > has a grasp on the fundamentals of SEO doesn't recognize that. That
> > sounds rude but it's not meant to be. It honestly worries me a bit.
> > But be careful about the misleading questions though. It's very easy
> > to tell when someone's doing that and it can actually help the smarter
> > "snakeoil" types to better profile you. If they know what you do know
> > about the shady stuff, then they'll know what you don't know as well.
> > > Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> > > someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> > > you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> > > Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> > > (or incompetent) SEOs?
> > > I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> > > yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> > > need help to make sure that things are right.
> > > Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > John
> > Great idea, John! I can't wait to hear what people say. Becky,
> > although I think most of everything you suggest is on-point, I don't
> > think you understand something very important about off-page SEO.
> > Benefits from off-page efforts do not die when the money runs out.
> > Just because you aren't paying your SEO company anymore for link
> > development doesn't mean the links they developed while working for
> > you will simply dissappear. It frightens me that someone who seemingly
> > has a grasp on the fundamentals of SEO doesn't recognize that. That
> > sounds rude but it's not meant to be. It honestly worries me a bit.
> > But be careful about the misleading questions though. It's very easy
> > to tell when someone's doing that and it can actually help the smarter
> > "snakeoil" types to better profile you. If they know what you do know
> > about the shady stuff, then they'll know what you don't know as well.
> > > Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> > > someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> > > you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> > > Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> > > (or incompetent) SEOs?
> > > I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> > > yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> > > need help to make sure that things are right.
> > > Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > John
Hi Adam
I enjoy the challenge of learning new skills, and seo is not a
definitive thing nobody can say you have to do it this way or that, or
my way is better than yours, if you know what i mean, you just try
your best
all i do is after i have wrote the text is play about with putting the
key words in different positions until i get the best result, and of
course the description
> I got something out of it, yorky, so thanks! I've got a question for
> you. Would you ever consider paying an SEO company to get you up on
> those terms? Judging by your site, it's clear that you've done some
> reading on the basics of seo but when it comes right down to it, every
> webmaster who is serious about competing on Google really should hire
> a professional. I ask because I'm noticing more and more webmasters
> share your perspective on SEO, which (and this is just an assumption -
> please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you can do it yourself. At the
> risk of sounding rude, I just don't have time for these types of
> clients and I turn them down on the spot. My point is that just
> because I don't want to work with you doesn't mean it's because you
> know a thing or two about SEO. It's because you think you do. So, my
> humble tip for webmasters (site owners) is to make sure that you are
> qualified to determine the SEO's competency or you could miss out on a
> great find.
> On Jul 3, 5:01 pm, yorky wrote:
> > Hi everybody
> > I am not a professional webmaster I am 70 years old and did not get
> > into computing until about 91 and have never had a tutor only books,
> > and books or tutorials always seem to assume that you know more than
> > you do, i just use logic i have just built a site for a friendwww.raistrickahaw.co.ukandwhen i ran it by whois seo it came out at
> > 98% allowing for errors it is not bad for an old man,how I envy you
> > young guns, I just wish I had, had somebody looking over my shoulder
> > and telling me what i was doing wrong. I canonly build basic websites
> > I love flash for headers but I am lost with java script. webado has
> > tried to enlighten me but i think i finished up trying her patience
> > and she is brilliant
> > , my own sitewww.floridahotelblackpool.co.ukcomesin at 2 or 3 for
> > the search term, blackpool central hotels, or hotels in central
> > blackpool, out of about a million combinations, so you see i have a
> > lot of competition.
> > Sorry I know I got off subject a bit but my advice is use common sence
> > On Jul 3, 7:25 pm, Adam Moro wrote:
> > > Great idea, John! I can't wait to hear what people say. Becky,
> > > although I think most of everything you suggest is on-point, I don't
> > > think you understand something very important about off-page SEO.
> > > Benefits from off-page efforts do not die when the money runs out.
> > > Just because you aren't paying your SEO company anymore for link
> > > development doesn't mean the links they developed while working for
> > > you will simply dissappear. It frightens me that someone who seemingly
> > > has a grasp on the fundamentals of SEO doesn't recognize that. That
> > > sounds rude but it's not meant to be. It honestly worries me a bit.
> > > But be careful about the misleading questions though. It's very easy
> > > to tell when someone's doing that and it can actually help the smarter
> > > "snakeoil" types to better profile you. If they know what you do know
> > > about the shady stuff, then they'll know what you don't know as well.
> > > > I'd love to get your feedback here as well!
> > > > Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> > > > someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> > > > you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> > > > Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> > > > (or incompetent) SEOs?
> > > > I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> > > > yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> > > > need help to make sure that things are right.
> > > > Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > John
Thanks for your reply, yorky! I completely understand what you're
saying. Sounds like we share the same affliction (oh did I say that??
I meant passion :) ). Thanks again. :)
> Hi Adam
> I enjoy the challenge of learning new skills, and seo is not a
> definitive thing nobody can say you have to do it this way or that, or
> my way is better than yours, if you know what i mean, you just try
> your best
> all i do is after i have wrote the text is play about with putting the
> key words in different positions until i get the best result, and of
> course the description
> On Jul 4, 3:39 am, Adam Moro wrote:
> > I got something out of it, yorky, so thanks! I've got a question for
> > you. Would you ever consider paying an SEO company to get you up on
> > those terms? Judging by your site, it's clear that you've done some
> > reading on the basics of seo but when it comes right down to it, every
> > webmaster who is serious about competing on Google really should hire
> > a professional. I ask because I'm noticing more and more webmasters
> > share your perspective on SEO, which (and this is just an assumption -
> > please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you can do it yourself. At the
> > risk of sounding rude, I just don't have time for these types of
> > clients and I turn them down on the spot. My point is that just
> > because I don't want to work with you doesn't mean it's because you
> > know a thing or two about SEO. It's because you think you do. So, my
> > humble tip for webmasters (site owners) is to make sure that you are
> > qualified to determine the SEO's competency or you could miss out on a
> > great find.
> > On Jul 3, 5:01 pm, yorky wrote:
> > > Hi everybody
> > > I am not a professional webmaster I am 70 years old and did not get
> > > into computing until about 91 and have never had a tutor only books,
> > > and books or tutorials always seem to assume that you know more than
> > > you do, i just use logic i have just built a site for a friendwww.raistrickahaw.co.ukandwheni ran it by whois seo it came out at
> > > 98% allowing for errors it is not bad for an old man,how I envy you
> > > young guns, I just wish I had, had somebody looking over my shoulder
> > > and telling me what i was doing wrong. I canonly build basic websites
> > > I love flash for headers but I am lost with java script. webado has
> > > tried to enlighten me but i think i finished up trying her patience
> > > and she is brilliant
> > > , my own sitewww.floridahotelblackpool.co.ukcomesinat 2 or 3 for
> > > the search term, blackpool central hotels, or hotels in central
> > > blackpool, out of about a million combinations, so you see i have a
> > > lot of competition.
> > > Sorry I know I got off subject a bit but my advice is use common sence
> > > On Jul 3, 7:25 pm, Adam Moro wrote:
> > > > Great idea, John! I can't wait to hear what people say. Becky,
> > > > although I think most of everything you suggest is on-point, I don't
> > > > think you understand something very important about off-page SEO.
> > > > Benefits from off-page efforts do not die when the money runs out.
> > > > Just because you aren't paying your SEO company anymore for link
> > > > development doesn't mean the links they developed while working for
> > > > you will simply dissappear. It frightens me that someone who seemingly
> > > > has a grasp on the fundamentals of SEO doesn't recognize that. That
> > > > sounds rude but it's not meant to be. It honestly worries me a bit.
> > > > But be careful about the misleading questions though. It's very easy
> > > > to tell when someone's doing that and it can actually help the smarter
> > > > "snakeoil" types to better profile you. If they know what you do know
> > > > about the shady stuff, then they'll know what you don't know as well.
> > > > > I'd love to get your feedback here as well!
> > > > > Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> > > > > someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> > > > > you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> > > > > Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> > > > > (or incompetent) SEOs?
> > > > > I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> > > > > yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> > > > > need help to make sure that things are right.
> > > > > Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > John
Well... when tackling the promotional campaign of any website, I
normally like to start by putting a pair of boxer shorts on my head
and ritually sacrificing a Jar Jar Binks action figure down the beach
at midnight to the tune of 'House of the Rising Sun'.
Now I've painted a suitable picture onto your mind's eye, let's think
about this for a minute.
I'd have to say that anyone should approach an SEO company which cold-
calls with extreme skepticism [if not a radiation suit & geiger
counter].
I've come up against any number of cold-calling SEO salesmen [&
women], and to a man [or woman], they've been totally bogus.
One of my clients actually had a call a few weeks ago asking him if he
realised that Google was only seeing 5 backlinks for his site, using
the link: operator as his proof.
Queue Sasch with a handful of facts and a bad attitude; oddly enough,
the salesman never called my client again after I'd torn a strip out
of him.
The problem is that the average business owner does not in fact have
even a basic grasp of SEO principles, and is therefore quite unable to
tell an ethical SEO from his 'dark-side' counterpart.
I've gone on at great length about this, often getting as long-winded
as Autocrat in the process. ;-)
By now, the Snakeoil types [nice one Adam] have given the whole SEO
sector a bad reputation which everyone is being spattered with. And
it'll take a hell of a long time, if ever, before that changes.
Still... at least this has made the average business owner somewhat
less susceptible to fast-talking sales spiel.
About the only thing I could say to any business owner looking for an
SEO is: 'Come see me'... Ok, you saw that one coming, right? ;-)
Seriously though, about the only thing I would say to anyone looking
for an SEO is to ask for their terms and conditions [examine with
microscope] and a number [not just 1 or 2] of example sites.
If the business owner has any kind of clue, he/she will then contact
the SEO's clients to ascertain their overall level of satisfaction.
Although even this can of course be rigged, getting a wider range of
examples makes it that much more difficult for the bogus SEO. And,
when it's time to engage someone's services, get everything
contractually regulated and nailed down.
To people who may be interested in hiring an SEO/SEO firm:
Before you even look for SEOs, make sure you have a solid, unique
product (website) ready to be marketed. For example, don't bother
releasing trailers for Iron Man if Iron Man hasn't even been filmed
yet. Film the damn movie first :) If you got a solid, compelling
product on your hands, that makes it much easier to generate buzz,
word of mouth, and natural backlinks. There'll be people who love your
site and they will do the marketing for you.
If you think you're penalized or have some kind of crawling issue, in
general, DON'T hire an SEO. Most high-visiblity SEOs don't have a clue
about troubleshooting crawlability issues. Even Rand Fishkin needed
help diagnosing a 301 redirect/404 issue (as well as the .0 URL). Post
your problem here, at GGWH. That's your best shot. If that doesn't do
it, post your issue at Webmasterworld, Highrankings, cr8, or any other
forums. Avoid paying for site debugging because most SEOs will lead
you on a wild goose chase and their best guess most likely isn't much
better than yours. If you tried all that and are still stumped, join
SEOmoz for a month. I've heard they tackle alot of issues inside the
members area.
If you have a huge, established site that needs cleaning up, try
calling up gs1md - he's a specialist in that field.
If you have random questions (like why doesn't link: command return
all your backlinks), don't pay for the answers. Post them here or on
other SEO forums. Most people will be able to answer common questions.
You will need to either learn keyword research or hire someone to do
that for you. Without a good set of target keywords it'll be difficult
to move forward.
If you think you got a hot site that's ready to be marketed and you
got a decent marketing budget then look for a reputable social media/
link building firm. There are a few soloists (like Eric Ward, Debra M,
etc) that I'd recommend but since they're usually booked, in general,
look for a firm that has the machinery in place and the manpower to
get things done quickly and efficiently. If you're strapped for cash,
launch a blog. If your site is ready to be seen and if you can get
people's attention with your blog, you can divert that attention from
your blog to your main site and build visibility that way. If you
don't have time to blog, hire a good blogger.
Make sure people marketing your site knows your vertical. They should
be familiar with all the big dogs (social networks, blogs, forums,
etc) in the space. They should know what the hot issues are (aware of
all the controversial issues, and where most people stand on each of
them).
Just a few random thoughts off the top of my head,
> Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> (or incompetent) SEOs?
> I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> need help to make sure that things are right.
> Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> (or incompetent) SEOs?
> I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> need help to make sure that things are right.
Search Engine Optimization (SEO) ~ the term itself is misleading to
most consumers. It says that you can build any form of website, and
then pay a hired gun to shove it to the front of SERPs. My opinion is
that what website owners should be shopping for is a professional
Webmaster; better yet a “Website Engineer”.
A good site is about so much more that just good SERP placement. It
starts at the grass roots level… Choosing an appropriate domain name,
followed by website design platform (static, dynamic, flash, hybrid),
content, graphics, navigation, and usability. All while dovetailing in
250 other rudimentary items that are prerequisites for decent SERP
placement… Most of which are clearly spelled out in explicit detail in
Google’s Webmaster Help Center. And yes, of course, a few of those 250
items do not appear in GWHC, and are more discrete.
In addition, SERP placement is really only half the battle. Yes,
without it you most likely won’t fair well, but a site that places
well doesn’t always equate to a site that will accomplish its intended
mission. So, it will help if your Website Engineer, can assist with
actual Internet marketing strategies (ethical ones) that produce
conversions.
I’m not saying that good SEOs are not good “Website Engineers”, the
very best of them are, and they know exactly what I’m saying. The very
worst of them are just snake-oil salesmen (often appearing in the form
of telemarketers) that love to call themselves SEOs.
Of course the simple answer is references… Just like anything else you
buy. Ask for, and check references. If the Website Engineer is good,
they’ll have long standing references, because Website Engineering is
not an overnight or one shot engagement. It is an ongoing process that
when successfully achieved results in an ongoing relationship because
it is never finished.
As for the consumer that falls for the snake-oil telemarketer or Mr
Black Hat SEO. Well, I feel sorry for them, and aggravated at the bad
spin it puts on SEO pros. But I suppose at the end of the day P.T.
Barnum knew what he was talking about.
Back to your question… Tell them to forget about SEO and find a
“Website Engineer”.
That’s all for now… I have to go buy some links :-)
> Suppose a webmaster were to come to you and ask for advice on finding
> someone who can help optimize his site for search engines. How would
> you recommend that they get started? Where should they look for SEOs?
> Which questions should they ask? How could they recognize competent
> (or incompetent) SEOs?
> I know that in some cases it's a good idea to learn all of this
> yourself, but in many situations it's just not possible or they just
> need help to make sure that things are right.
What I feel and what I say and hardly anybody wants to listen to me -
insisting it's a Google tantrum if their site doesn't perform as
expected. Or even funnier, believing it's jealous competitors
"sabotaging" their site in some mysterious way. The art of shunning
responsibility.
I'd say aybody calling themselves an "SEO" specialist (or wannabe) who
doesn't look at the nuts and bolts of the site and doesn't fix those
FIRST (or recommend fixes forcefully after having analyzed the site)
should be drawn and quartered and hung up to dry. It's utter
irresponsibility to only focus on external factors, and ignore
internal ones which are often the first big culprit.
Of course I'm not even mentioning the crooked SEO's who employ black
hat tactics or worse, who resort to criminal acts like hacking the
competitor's sites in order to appear to have achieved their goal. I'm
only talking about the incompetent ones.
> I'd say aybody calling themselves an "SEO" specialist (or wannabe) who
> doesn't look at the nuts and bolts of the site and doesn't fix those
> FIRST (or recommend fixes forcefully after having analyzed the site)
> should be drawn and quartered and hung up to dry. It's utter
> irresponsibility to only focus on external factors, and ignore
> internal ones which are often the first big culprit.
That, unfortunately, makes up the lion's share of the industry. If I
had a cent for every time I'd seen someone selling 'SEO' because they
have the latest version of IBP...
> That, unfortunately, makes up the lion's share of the industry. If I
> had a cent for every time I'd seen someone selling 'SEO' because they
> have the latest version of IBP...
Amen... that and WebCEO...
Face it; SEO is just another buzzword, much like 'Multi-Media' was in
its day or 'Web 2.0' is now...
I also think it's in the process of fizzling out, as far as the buzz
is concerned.
Totally agreed. SEO should not exist- sites are made for visitors, and
in fact visitors in most cases are more strict judges than search
engines.
Otherwise we can turn the whole thing upside down: if visitors like a
site and appreciate the content, the services, the whole experiance of
the site then it is the job of search engines to find and rank it
highly.
> > That, unfortunately, makes up the lion's share of the industry. If I
> > had a cent for every time I'd seen someone selling 'SEO' because they
> > have the latest version of IBP...
> Amen... that and WebCEO...
> Face it; SEO is just another buzzword, much like 'Multi-Media' was in
> its day or 'Web 2.0' is now...
> I also think it's in the process of fizzling out, as far as the buzz
> is concerned.
> if visitors like a
> site and appreciate the content, the services, the whole experiance of
> the site then it is the job of search engines to find and rank it
> highly.
Come up with that solution and I can guarantee you will be a very
successful person...
> > if visitors like a
> > site and appreciate the content, the services, the whole experiance of
> > the site then it is the job of search engines to find and rank it
> > highly.
> Come up with that solution and I can guarantee you will be a very
> successful person...
Well...... as an SEO guy I would obviously prefer that SEO did exist.
However, I'd be quite happy to dispose of around 99% of people who
claim to be good at it. I am equally happy to say 'no' to the majority
of potential clients I'm approached by.
How to choose a good SEO person? I'd say ethical and effective are
virtually everything that matters. Can 'your' SEO specialist promise
that they won't take on more than one client in the same field of
business? Can they quote existing, satisfied clients? Will they offer
to promote a site that doesn't offer a good, and relevant, product or
service?
To say that SEO shouldn't exist is too simplistic. Decent SEO
companies exist for the same reason that decent advertising companies
exist, decent designers exist, decent engineers exist etc etc etc. A
site owner is very rarely good at everything and there aren't many
sites that could claim to be absolutely perfect.......
> Totally agreed. SEO should not exist- sites are made for visitors, and
> in fact visitors in most cases are more strict judges than search
> engines.
> Otherwise we can turn the whole thing upside down: if visitors like a
> site and appreciate the content, the services, the whole experiance of
> the site then it is the job of search engines to find and rank it
> highly.
> On Jul 27, 11:27 am, Sasch wrote:
> > > That, unfortunately, makes up the lion's share of the industry. If I
> > > had a cent for every time I'd seen someone selling 'SEO' because they
> > > have the latest version of IBP...
> > Amen... that and WebCEO...
> > Face it; SEO is just another buzzword, much like 'Multi-Media' was in
> > its day or 'Web 2.0' is now...
> > I also think it's in the process of fizzling out, as far as the buzz
> > is concerned.- Hide quoted text -
Finding a talented search engine optimiser is difficult. Yes, there
are hundreds of individuals and companies who claim to offer SEO
services. Sadly, their portfolios do not show evidence of anything
beyond basic knowledge of SEO. Such service providers survive because
many businesses don’t have much competition for their keyphrases and
they rank high with minimal effort.
Listing major companies as clients is a better indicator of sales
prowess than SEO skills. Appearing in lists of “Top 10 SEO companies”
means they probably advertise on those websites – once they stop
advertising, they mysteriously drop off the top 10 list.
Here are some clues to help you find a good operator:
• The owner’s name and contact details are on their website.
• There are no spelling or grammatical errors on their website.
• They do not resort to email spamming to get your attention.
• The owner participates in meaningful discussions at quality SEO
forums.
• The owner speaks at public seminars or writes for leading
publications (about SEO topics).
• They have clients in ultra-competitive niches with keyphrases such
as “debt consolidation”, or phrases targeting Florida or Las Vegas.
• Their website ranks high for “search engine optimization” and
related keyphrases.
What's this got to do with anything?
" They have clients in ultra-competitive niches with keyphrases
such
as “debt consolidation”, or phrases targeting Florida or Las Vegas."
The majority of such websites are scams or at least very lame IMO. If
I were to be in any way approached by one of those I'd refuse to take
them on for anything (though I generally don't even do SEO, just site
cleanups and tune-ups which may eventually give better results if the
content is worthy in the first place - but I won't usually write their
content for them). I'd not take them on and I'd even tell them get out
and do something more worthwhile, the web doesn't need another site of
this nature, does it?
> Finding a talented search engine optimiser is difficult. Yes, there
> are hundreds of individuals and companies who claim to offer SEO
> services. Sadly, their portfolios do not show evidence of anything
> beyond basic knowledge of SEO. Such service providers survive because
> many businesses don’t have much competition for their keyphrases and
> they rank high with minimal effort.
> Listing major companies as clients is a better indicator of sales
> prowess than SEO skills. Appearing in lists of “Top 10 SEO companies”
> means they probably advertise on those websites – once they stop
> advertising, they mysteriously drop off the top 10 list.
> Here are some clues to help you find a good operator:
> • The owner’s name and contact details are on their website.
> • There are no spelling or grammatical errors on their website.
> • They do not resort to email spamming to get your attention.
> • The owner participates in meaningful discussions at quality SEO
> forums.
> • The owner speaks at public seminars or writes for leading
> publications (about SEO topics).
> • They have clients in ultra-competitive niches with keyphrases such
> as “debt consolidation”, or phrases targeting Florida or Las Vegas.
> • Their website ranks high for “search engine optimization” and
> related keyphrases.
> They have clients in ultra-competitive niches with keyphrases
> such as “debt consolidation”, or phrases targeting Florida or
> Las Vegas."
> The majority of such websites are scams or at least very lame IMO.
I rather think the point was that an SEO firm who can effectively &
successfully promote a client's site in cut-throat sectors such as
"debt consolidation" would be very capable in its field, and would
therefore be a better choice than one which could only show success
promoting "cowboy boots for six-toed cowboys". :-D
Nevertheless... Ash... there is something deeply unsettling about the
way you 'thumb up' in your mugshot. ;-)
> What's this got to do with anything?
> " They have clients in ultra-competitive niches with keyphrases
> such
> as “debt consolidation”, or phrases targeting Florida or Las Vegas."
> The majority of such websites are scams or at least very lame IMO. If
> I were to be in any way approached by one of those I'd refuse to take
> them on for anything (though I generally don't even do SEO, just site
> cleanups and tune-ups which may eventually give better results if the
> content is worthy in the first place - but I won't usually write their
> content for them). I'd not take them on and I'd even tell them get out
> and do something more worthwhile, the web doesn't need another site of
> this nature, does it?
> On Aug 23, 10:14 am, trainSEM wrote:
> > Finding a talented search engine optimiser is difficult. Yes, there
> > are hundreds of individuals and companies who claim to offer SEO
> > services. Sadly, their portfolios do not show evidence of anything
> > beyond basic knowledge of SEO. Such service providers survive because
> > many businesses don’t have much competition for their keyphrases and
> > they rank high with minimal effort.
> > Listing major companies as clients is a better indicator of sales
> > prowess than SEO skills. Appearing in lists of “Top 10 SEO companies”
> > means they probably advertise on those websites – once they stop
> > advertising, they mysteriously drop off the top 10 list.
> > Here are some clues to help you find a good operator:
> > • The owner’s name and contact details are on their website.
> > • There are no spelling or grammatical errors on their website.
> > • They do not resort to email spamming to get your attention.
> > • The owner participates in meaningful discussions at quality SEO
> > forums.
> > • The owner speaks at public seminars or writes for leading
> > publications (about SEO topics).
> > • They have clients in ultra-competitive niches with keyphrases such
> > as “debt consolidation”, or phrases targeting Florida or Las Vegas.
> > • Their website ranks high for “search engine optimization” and
> > related keyphrases.- Hide quoted text -
