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craigmcginty  
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 More options Aug 5 2007, 3:55 pm
From: craigmcginty
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 19:55:35 -0000
Local: Sun, Aug 5 2007 3:55 pm
Subject: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Hope someone can help with this, looked over past discussions from a
few months ago and didn't produce any results, I wonder if things have
changed.

I have a site hosted with TypePad, so that's in the US, and the
results from a google.com search are all there neat and tidy.

If I switch across to the google.co.uk search the site seems to
disappear, although I live in the UK and the majority of my readers
are from the UK.

And despite Google Analytics showing my audience is 50% UK based, when
I do a search for example on "Le Relais de Flavigny" I come in at
number two on the .com search, but no where on the .co.uk

If people have any pointers or ideas it would be most appreciated.

All the best, Craig


 
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Robbo  
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 More options Aug 5 2007, 5:15 pm
From: Robbo
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:15:51 -0000
Local: Sun, Aug 5 2007 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
What is the URL of your site?

To qualify as "pages from the UK", your site must be:
(a) hosted in the UK (have an IP address that resolves to the UK);
and/or
(b) have a UK TLD such as .co.uk.

If your site is a US-hosted .com, there is no way that it will be
regarded as "pages from the UK" by google.co.uk.

However, if you are talking about google.co.uk "The Web" then your
site should appear pretty much the same in google.co.uk and
google.com.

If there is a big difference it is likely to be tiume-based - the
google.co.uk will eventually (a few weeks?) catch up with google.com.

Robbo

On Aug 5, 8:55 pm, craigmcginty wrote:


 
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Ravanol  
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 More options Aug 5 2007, 5:56 pm
From: Ravanol
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:56:31 -0700
Local: Sun, Aug 5 2007 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Hi Craig,

I have exactly the same issue (and I have been emailed by many others
also reporting similar problems).  See my last post at
http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Webmaster_Help-Indexing/browse_...

My site has dropped down the .co.uk listings to around page 10 for
"SMS Marketing", but is on page 2 on .com.. even though we are hosted
in the UK, have UK IP address and target UK audience.

It is just crazy and very very very frustrating!!! :(

Al.

On Aug 5, 8:55 pm, craigmcginty wrote:


 
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craigmcginty  
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 More options Aug 5 2007, 5:56 pm
From: craigmcginty
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:56:34 -0000
Local: Sun, Aug 5 2007 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Hi Robbo

Many thanks for that, think I will struggle on both (a) and (b), so it
looks as though I might have to just live with it.

My site URL is http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/

And didn't realise there was such a time lag between google.com and
google.co.uk - that might go some way to explaining why I saw two
different results in the example I highlighted.

All the best, Craig

On Aug 5, 10:15 pm, Robbo wrote:


 
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craigmcginty  
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 More options Aug 5 2007, 6:03 pm
From: craigmcginty
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 22:03:16 -0000
Local: Sun, Aug 5 2007 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Hi Ravanol
Many thanks for that, I hadn't seen that message thread, it looks like
you might have more cause for concern than I, as I know I am on US-
based servers with a .com address.

I suppose this highlights the importance of not relying solely on
search engine traffic for your audience and that I need to give my
newsletter a bit of a brush up.

All the best

Craig

On Aug 5, 10:56 pm, Ravanol wrote:


 
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dockarl  
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 More options Aug 5 2007, 7:45 pm
From: dockarl
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 16:45:45 -0700
Local: Sun, Aug 5 2007 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Little discussed factoid - the google (and msn and yahoo) indexes
differ quite significantly between country EVEN WITHOUT restricting
your search to a local search. Try it for yourself - if you're in the
uk, conduct a google.co.uk search, then access a US based proxy
service like www.zend2.com - you'll find that the UK results will be
significantly biased toward UK content, and the US results will be
biased toward US content.

It's the same case for google.co.in, google.co.jp, google.com.au - etc
etc.. All the country specific versions of Google seem to do some
localisation whether you ask for it or not.

Cheers,

doc

On Aug 6, 8:03 am, craigmcginty wrote:


 
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craigmcginty  
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 More options Aug 6 2007, 3:47 am
From: craigmcginty
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:47:38 -0000
Local: Mon, Aug 6 2007 3:47 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Hi doc

I hadn't realised that, think I'm just resigned to that fact that it
ain't going to change, so it's not worth fretting over.

All the best

Craig

On Aug 6, 12:45 am, dockarl wrote:


 
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RainboRick  
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 More options Aug 6 2007, 10:49 am
From: RainboRick
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:49:23 -0700
Local: Mon, Aug 6 2007 10:49 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
All of the major search engines give a great deal of weight to geo-
location, even when the user does not request a country-specific
search, as noted in this thread.  So, if you don't have a Country Code
Top Level Domain Name and your site is not hosted on a server that's
physically located within your target country, you are working with a
significant handicap.  I would think that even if it costs several
pounds more per month to use a UK-based hosting service, the ranking
benefits would make it worthwhile to make the change.

On Aug 6, 2:47 am, craigmcginty wrote:


 
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craigmcginty  
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 More options Aug 7 2007, 6:17 pm
From: craigmcginty
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:17:48 -0000
Local: Tues, Aug 7 2007 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Hi RainboRick

I was thinking of that as a possible route, but it would involve
leaving TypePad and shifting the best part of 3,000 pages with all the
attendant images and files attached to stories.

I even thought of moving it to the TypePad service in the UK, but
again the servers are based in the US.

It's strange to think that Google's sole aim is to send users to the
best search result, yet in this global world we live in it is
incapable of seeing across national borders and so produces a poorer
service for the user.

All the best

Craig

On Aug 6, 3:49 pm, RainboRick wrote:


 
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Robbo  
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 More options Aug 7 2007, 7:17 pm
From: Robbo
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:17:03 -0000
Local: Tues, Aug 7 2007 7:17 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
What Google is saying is that users can choose results drawn from
anywhere on the "Web" or if users prefer they can restrict the pages
to "pages from the UK".

As far as moving your site to UK hosting goes, assuming that you have
copies of all your pages and images on your local PC or can download
them to your PC from your US hosting, you can fairly easily upload
them to a new (UK) hosting site, test out all the links.  You can
transfer thisfrenchlife.co.uk and www.thisfrenchlife.com domain names
to UK hosting and use either the .com or the .co.uk as your main site
with the other 301 redirected t the main one.

Robbo


 
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jtl4  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 8:27 am
From: jtl4
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:27:15 -0000
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 8:27 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
I have a .com site that is hosted on US servers that will not show up
on google UK search.
Problem is, the site content is all aimed at UK market.
The .com has existed for years and has lots of UK links.
I have the .co.uk domain set up as a 301 redirect to the .com site.
I don't want to switch to UK server and domain because the massive
majority of UK users do not bother using google UK search.
BUT, some do.
Google seems to be missing a trick by assuming a .com hosted on a US
server won't be of interest to UK surfers.
Surely they must realise that the internet doesn't have the same
country borders as the real world!?
I have read that some people have seen this issue suddenly fixed for
them, why not for everyone?

 
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RainboRick  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:04 am
From: RainboRick
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:04:03 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:04 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
The major search engines all believe that geo-location is an important
relevance factor.  Whether or not that seems reasonable for any
particular search query or website, this is the situation you face.
If your site is primarily focused on a particular country, you can
either do what is necessary to get your site recognized as being
located within that country or carry on knowing you're operating with
a significant handicap in the rankings.  Its not that 'foreign' sites
are of no interest, but they are saying those sites are of less
interest overall.  Google normally redirects users to the country-
specific Google based on the user's IP address, so I think you'll find
that the majority of UK users are in fact using Google.co.uk.  I'm not
sure if Yahoo! and MSN have a similar practice.

The major search engines use two common factors in determining geo-
location: (1) the presence of a Country Code Top Level Domain Name
("CC TLD" as in "somesite.co.uk") or (2) the physical location of the
server that hosts the site, based on its IP address.  Google says it
will sometimes refer to the domain name registration data, but they
don't say when they do, so its unreliable.  Backlinks have no effect
in any of the major search engines in determining geo-location.
<meta> tags have no effect in any of the major search engines in
determining geo-location.  Language settings of any kind have no
effect in any of the major search engines in determining geo-
location.    A very few UK-based sites were being improperly
identified as being non-UK by Google because of a few blocks of IP
addresses being mis-identified.  The vast majority of users who have
had this issue fixed have taken the steps necessary to resolve the
issue by either changing their domain names or moving to a server
located in the target country.  The choice is yours.  Good luck!

On Aug 9, 7:27 am, jtl4 wrote:


 
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Phil Payne  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:19 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:19:21 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk

> Google seems to be missing a trick by assuming a .com hosted on a US
> server won't be of interest to UK surfers.

"When searching for pages from a specific country, keep in mind that
our crawlers identify the country that corresponds to a site by
factors such as the physical location at which the site is hosted, the
site's IP address, and its domain restrict."

http://www.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=469&topic=352


 
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jtl4  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:27 am
From: jtl4
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:27:32 -0000
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:27 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Thanks for the info.
I am indeed redirected by default to google UK, but, the default on
google UK is always "search the web" rather than "pages from the UK".
I am fairly confident that most people in the UK do not change to
"pages from the UK".  If you disagree I would value input as to why,
as this is the only reason I do not intend to change to a UK based
server.

I understand that a non UK based site may ranked lower than a UK one,
but how much lower?  While our site does not sit in the UK pages
search top 100 for its own brand name, where it is number one in the
non UK search, it is surely still more relevant than the vast majority
of the sites that appear in the top 100 places.  Most of which have
very tenuous links - some in the top ten pages are even swedish
websites.  Also, we are listed in a UK page in DMOZ - I thought google
trusted DMOZ?  Clearly not enough to intelligently work out that our
site is UK based.  I also tried two online tools that are designed to
'guess' where a domain/site is based.  Both correctly said UK.  OK so
that's not perfect, but it's better than google, whose search seems
badly flawed in this respect.  I can understand what they are trying
to do.  But they are clearly failing.


 
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Phil Payne  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:30 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:30:46 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:30 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk

> I am indeed redirected by default to google UK, ...

That's not what it says

It's talking about the site, not the searcher.


 
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RainboRick  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:35 am
From: RainboRick
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:35:14 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:35 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
All of the major search engines give a great deal of weight to geo-
location, even when the user does not select a country-specific
search. This is why it is especially important to have your geo-
location properly recognized.

On Aug 9, 9:27 am, jtl4 wrote:


 
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Phil Payne  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:40 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:40:11 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:40 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk

> All of the major search engines give a great deal of weight to geo-
> location, even when the user does not select a country-specific
> search. This is why it is especially important to have your geo-
> location properly recognized.

I've been wondering.  For truly geolocated businesses - plumbers,
restaurants - does it help to add a map to Google?

I've done it experimentally, but you know how long it takes to see a
reaction in the SERPs.


 
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RainboRick  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:47 am
From: RainboRick
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:47:11 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:47 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
How Google Maps data might be used is an interesting issue, but Google
hasn't said anything or done anything about it that I've seen.  At the
moment, it seems limited to 'local search' displaying maps and
locations of businesses for queries that include a city name.  It
would certainly be a natural extension to that service to refer to it
for geo-location.

On Aug 9, 9:40 am, Phil Payne wrote:


 
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jtl4  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 10:49 am
From: jtl4
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:49:04 -0000
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 10:49 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
I don't understand your point Phil Payne, if I am on google.com or
google.co.uk when I search my site is No.1 for my brand name.  But if
I change the search option on google.co.uk to search only UK pages
then I am nowhere to be seen on my brand name.

I understand what you are saying RainboRick, but it appears that the
only thing stopping me being recognised as UK based (because every
other fact including all the content on my website - which I know
isn't taken into account, but should be!) is the fact that my site is
hosted on a US server.  Well that's ridiculous.  Makes google look
foolish.  Can they not write a better algorythm than that!?

I accept my situation, I am just saying it is bonkers and google need
to have a rethink.
Thank you both for discussing though.
Regards


 
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Robbo  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 11:25 am
From: Robbo
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:25:58 -0000
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 11:25 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk

No, it's not "bonkers"!

If the user specifies "pages from the UK" that is what they should
get.

If your pages are hosted outside UK (and therefore not subject to UK
consumer law, UK credit card responsibility, UK small-claims court
procedures, UK-hosting custom & practice, UK police powers, etc etc)
you cannot expect to be offered by Google as "Pages from the UK".

It does not say "Pages about the UK" or "Pages for the UK" or "Pages
just as good/better than the UK" - it says "Pages from the UK".

Lots of UK searchers do NOT specify ("Pages from the UK") but when
they do, it needs to be respected.

Similarly, if I use google.fr and specify that I want pages from
France - that is what I should get.   Not pages from Uzbekistan or the
UK.

I think it is important that you also take into account that ccTLD
registration procedures vary enormously between different parts of the
world.
In the UK any Tom, Dick, or Harriet can register a .co.uk without any
evidence of residence/business/official connection with the UK.

many other countries are different and have strict control and vetting
procedures before issuing one of their ccTLDs.

The consequence is that although we in the UK may generally not see
any great significance in .com/.co.uk ccTLD or between US/UK/EU
hosting, if you take a global view, as I suppose Google has to do, it
can be extremely indicative to know where your pages are coming from.

I also think that some people might take the view that the rules need
to be tightened rather than relaxed.

Should someone who has no recognized connection with the UK and
resides entirely outside UK jurisdiction be able to register a .co.uk
and claim that these are "Pages from the UK" even though they are
hosted on the other side of the world?   (I'm using UK just as an
example; the same argument could be applied anywhere.)

I think it is well-known that some UK-based operators target the North
American market, making their sites look every bit American.   I don't
know if US/Canadian customers are sometimes surprised or feel misled
when the discover the truth.

Anyway, regarding the original question, if you want to get listed by
Google as "Pages from X", why not host in country X or take an X
ccTLD?

Is it any big deal either way?

Robbo


 
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silverstall  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 11:41 am
From: silverstall
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:41:35 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 11:41 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
As i understand it, search engines use the physical location of your
server as a safe and quick method of  allowing them to tailor the
search. It also allows them to double-check that backlinks are not all
coming from the same c class block or that a site which claims to be
US based is in fact a phising site based in India.
I read a survey that found approximately 25% of buyers use the 'uk
pages only' when making a purchase as they want to ensure the site is
genuinely based in the Uk thereby reducing the risk of delivery
delays, refund problems etc. Our own surveys of customers suggest a
much higher percentage however it would be nice to find some official
statistics.
There are also  the legal implications  i.e the physical location of
the server can play an important part in determining which
jurisdiction should apply e.g. copyright infringement cases  i.e the
place where the material was first published - even though the
business may be based in the UK it is possible to argue that since the
server is based in the US then the images or whatever were first
published in the US and not the UK. In criminal based charges the UK
police have powers to seize servers but only those in the UK etc.
As for google maps our experience showed it made no difference. i.e.
we had a site listed locally in google maps but not in the regional
search index itself because at the time it was hosted in the US.

 
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jtl4  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 11:41 am
From: jtl4
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:41:41 -0000
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 11:41 am
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
Robbo, read my posts.
My site has 100% UK content.
It is all about a place in the UK.
It is a .co.uk domain name.
It is registered to a UK owner.
It is linked from exclusively UK sites.
It is in the UK section of DMOZ.
It doesn't sell anything, but every last little part of the site
screams UK
But because the physical code is sitting on a US based machine google
decides that there is no possibility that this site will appeal to
users in the UK.
I stand by my statement, that is indeed bonkers and is of no benefit
to UK users.

 
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Phil Payne  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 12:24 pm
From: Phil Payne
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:24:34 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk

> But because the physical code is sitting on a US based machine google
> decides that there is no possibility that this site will appeal to
> users in the UK.
> I stand by my statement, that is indeed bonkers and is of no benefit
> to UK users.

Then you should reread Silerstall's explanation of the legal
position.  It is not bonkers at all.

(Though discriminating between EU countries may be illegal in itself.)


 
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Phil Payne  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 12:29 pm
From: Phil Payne
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:29:32 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 12:29 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk

> It is a .co.uk domain name.

I don't think you've ever posted the actual URL.

 
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Robbo  
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 More options Aug 9 2007, 2:11 pm
From: Robbo
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:11:22 -0000
Local: Thurs, Aug 9 2007 2:11 pm
Subject: Re: Different results from google.com and google.co.uk
jtl4 said:

"But because the physical code is sitting on a US based machine google
decides that there is no possibility that this site will appeal to
users in the UK."

That's completely untrue - in fact it is so ridiculous it hardly
deserves any response.

You know very well that the site IS offered by google.co.uk to anyone
that searchs the web.

But if you don't like the current situation, why don't you simply use
UK hosting?

I read your post very carefully - and it's clear that as a US-
hosted .com your site does not qualify as "pages from the UK".

Are you suggesting that any pages hosted anywhere should be treated as
"pages from the UK"?

When anyone decides the location of their hosting, they are supposed
to take all the implications into account - if necessary they should
seek advice before making a decision.

You took the decision to host your .com in the US so I cannot for the
life of me understand why you think it unreasonable that your site is
not recognized as "pages from the UK".

If you were Search Algorithm Designer & Chief of Applied Systems
Engineering, how would you ascertain (simply and reliably) that a
domain was or was not "from the UK" (or whatever country)?

Your protestations about content cut no ice.  Are you suggesting that
Google should have to police the content of pages and issue warnings
like "Ooh! Your site content is becoming a bit too foreign!  If you
don't make it 5% more British with 14 days we will have move you to
another index!"  I don't think so!

Incidentally, I don't know the percentages, but bbc.co.uk is
definitely UK-based but much of its content and its readership are
global not only UK.

You say this Google feature "is of no benefit to UK users".

Don't you think that it is good that Google let's the consumer choose?

The bottom line is that when you make decisions, you also take
responsibility for them and if you get them wrong you take corrective
action without blaming everyone else for it.

The fortunate thing is that the necessary corrective active is simple
and straight-forward.   But I guess you perhaps have another agenda?

Robbo

On Aug 9, 4:41 pm, jtl4 wrote:


 
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