I filed my first paid links report in webmaster tools tonight. It is getting extremely frustrating in the area I sell my product seeing someone owning in Google simply by buying pagerank.
The guy doesn't even place the name of his website as a title in all these paid areas, he goes right for exactly phrased link text with amazingly perfect results???
Well, I am tired of standing on the sidelines, I am going to hunt down every single gamer in the area I sell my product and use them as examples. If Google is really listening, this guy will drop, if Google is not then maybe buying search position is what people have to do?
What do you think? Is it ok to try to clear the path to sell a product by reporting cheaters?
Well, I've reported cheats. One was a site with dozens of keywords in hidden text that knocked me off the top spot, and the other a site that had five duplicates all under similar urls. I actually felt a bit bad about doing it and suspect the site owners probably aren't aware that it is cheating or that it is being done by their webmasters, but biz is biz and if they are competing by using unethical methods then I can get over my scruples about reporting them. The hidden text site disappeared fairly soon after reporting it.
I can see you don't feel any better about it than I do Aaron, particularly as in all likelihood the site owner is the victim of sharp practice by his SEO, but what's the alternative? Mail them that their site is in breach of Google guidelines so their SEO can think up a cleverer way to cheat?
> I filed my first paid links report in webmaster tools tonight. It is > getting extremely frustrating in the area I sell my product seeing > someone owning in Google simply by buying pagerank.
> The guy doesn't even place the name of his website as a title in all > these paid areas, he goes right for exactly phrased link text with > amazingly perfect results???
> Well, I am tired of standing on the sidelines, I am going to hunt down > every single gamer in the area I sell my product and use them as > examples. If Google is really listening, this guy will drop, if Google > is not then maybe buying search position is what people have to do?
> What do you think? Is it ok to try to clear the path to sell a product > by reporting cheaters?
> I filed my first paid links report in webmaster tools tonight. It is > getting extremely frustrating in the area I sell my product seeing > someone owning in Google simply by buying pagerank.
How do you know they are achieving their positioning due to PageRank?
Considering so many cases of pages with lesser PageRank outranking pages with greater PageRank, can it be so easily attributable to buying links?
> The guy doesn't even place the name of his website as a title in all > these paid areas, he goes right for exactly phrased link text with > amazingly perfect results???
Were I to have a link to my site, on another site, I'd prefer keyword rich link text, no?
> Well, I am tired of standing on the sidelines, I am going to hunt down > every single gamer in the area I sell my product and use them as > examples.
Go for it. Whether or not their purchasing of links is what places them high in the SERPs, doing what one can to knock the value of paid links into the dirt can not be bad.
> If Google is really listening, this guy will drop, if Google > is not then maybe buying search position is what people have to do?
Again, it depends on what is actually causing the site(s) to rank as it/they do.
I do sort of get tired of the, "since they are getting away with it, maybe I should too." idea. I have numerous sites which according to domain age, inbound links keyword density, competitors with orders of magnitude more inbound links etc. shouldn't rank for anything but yet all the pages I consider important are on the first page, and often in the top five, for what I consider important keywords and phrases. All of this for keywords/phrases with > 20,000,000 pages in competition.
> What do you think? Is it ok to try to clear the path to sell a product > by reporting cheaters?
Yes and no. I don't care what your reason is, whether it is actually the case or not, helping bring more use cases to Google to help them see what is going on out there, can't be a bad thing.
cass - I wouldn't report a thing but this guy is buying links in paid areas, this is "buying pagerank" which violates the guidelines and in reality is buying search position. The guys site has been around for many years, it did not shoot to the top until after he started buying his way there. I have a few sites, this guy even has contacted me directly to buy a link on my related blog, he is very clever. Old site, relevant products, keyword rich incoming links from many paid areas = search position. You are right, pagerank might not exactly be what is getting the site there but surely the links are.
I have been watching this area for 5 years and can almost feel a change when it happens, it is very eye opening. Will I go out and buy a ton of links? No, not just yet...Google is slowly making good changes.
> > I filed my first paid links report in webmaster tools tonight. It is > > getting extremely frustrating in the area I sell my product seeing > > someone owning in Google simply by buying pagerank.
> How do you know they are achieving their positioning due to PageRank?
> Considering so many cases of pages with lesser PageRank outranking > pages with greater PageRank, can it be so easily attributable to > buying links?
> > The guy doesn't even place the name of his website as a title in all > > these paid areas, he goes right for exactly phrased link text with > > amazingly perfect results???
> Were I to have a link to my site, on another site, I'd prefer keyword > rich link text, no?
> > Well, I am tired of standing on the sidelines, I am going to hunt down > > every single gamer in the area I sell my product and use them as > > examples.
> Go for it. Whether or not their purchasing of links is what places > them high in the SERPs, doing what one can to knock the value of paid > links into the dirt can not be bad.
> > If Google is really listening, this guy will drop, if Google > > is not then maybe buying search position is what people have to do?
> Again, it depends on what is actually causing the site(s) to rank as > it/they do.
> I do sort of get tired of the, "since they are getting away with it, > maybe I should too." idea. I have numerous sites which according to > domain age, inbound links keyword density, competitors with orders of > magnitude more inbound links etc. shouldn't rank for anything but yet > all the pages I consider important are on the first page, and often in > the top five, for what I consider important keywords and phrases. All > of this for keywords/phrases with > 20,000,000 pages in competition.
> > What do you think? Is it ok to try to clear the path to sell a product > > by reporting cheaters?
> Yes and no. I don't care what your reason is, whether it is actually > the case or not, helping bring more use cases to Google to help them > see what is going on out there, can't be a bad thing.
> I filed my first paid links report in webmaster tools tonight. It is > getting extremely frustrating in the area I sell my product seeing > someone owning in Google simply by buying pagerank.
> The guy doesn't even place the name of his website as a title in all > these paid areas, he goes right for exactly phrased link text with > amazingly perfect results???
> Well, I am tired of standing on the sidelines, I am going to hunt down > every single gamer in the area I sell my product and use them as > examples. If Google is really listening, this guy will drop, if Google > is not then maybe buying search position is what people have to do?
> What do you think? Is it ok to try to clear the path to sell a product > by reporting cheaters?
> cass - I wouldn't report a thing but this guy is buying links in paid > areas, this is "buying pagerank" which violates the guidelines and in > reality is buying search position.
If he wasn't buying links, or spamming, or hiding content/links, you wouldn't report him, of course. I report spamdexing scraper sites that link to my pages even though there is some chance they might be passing at least some PageRank and they are no where near my pages in the SERPs.
I report them because I feel it is the right thing to do.
I also get the added benefit of experimenting each time to see what Google does. ;-)
> The guys site has been around for > many years, it did not shoot to the top until after he started buying > his way there.
Ok, although that is not 100% conclusive, it's close enough for horseshoes, hand grenades and low yield thermal nuclear devices. :-()
I guess though that it is a red herring anyway, the site is buying links for the purposes of trying to game the SEs. Nail "em.
> I have a few sites, this guy even has contacted me > directly to buy a link on my related blog, he is very clever. Old > site, relevant products, keyword rich incoming links from many paid > areas = search position. You are right, pagerank might not exactly be > what is getting the site there but surely the links are.
That brings it even closer to 100%. So he is essentially trying to buy PageRank AND authority.
> I have been watching this area for 5 years and can almost feel a > change when it happens, it is very eye opening.
True, I'm the same way. You watch something long enough and you can begin to know when something is out of place.
> Will I go out and buy > a ton of links? No, not just yet...Google is slowly making good > changes.
True, although I think they would make changes faster were it not for a fear of collateral damage.
That said though, I still feel uncomfortable when I read someone write, "If they can do it and get away with it, why shouldn't I?". You know you aren't going to go out on a binge link buying spree and even I know you aren't, it's just that there are a lot of people reading these posts and seeing someone of your knowledge and experience saying something like that, it might fall upon the wrong eyes and end up causing someone serious trouble for their site as well as their wallet. :-(
> > cass - I wouldn't report a thing but this guy is buying links in paid > > areas, this is "buying pagerank" which violates the guidelines and in > > reality is buying search position.
> If he wasn't buying links, or spamming, or hiding content/links, you > wouldn't report him, of course. I report spamdexing scraper sites > that link to my pages even though there is some chance they might be > passing at least some PageRank and they are no where near my pages in > the SERPs.
> I report them because I feel it is the right thing to do.
> I also get the added benefit of experimenting each time to see what > Google does. ;-)
> > The guys site has been around for > > many years, it did not shoot to the top until after he started buying > > his way there.
> Ok, although that is not 100% conclusive, it's close enough for > horseshoes, hand grenades and low yield thermal nuclear devices. :-()
> I guess though that it is a red herring anyway, the site is buying > links for the purposes of trying to game the SEs. Nail "em.
> > I have a few sites, this guy even has contacted me > > directly to buy a link on my related blog, he is very clever. Old > > site, relevant products, keyword rich incoming links from many paid > > areas = search position. You are right, pagerank might not exactly be > > what is getting the site there but surely the links are.
> That brings it even closer to 100%. So he is essentially trying to > buy PageRank AND authority.
> > I have been watching this area for 5 years and can almost feel a > > change when it happens, it is very eye opening.
> True, I'm the same way. You watch something long enough and you can > begin to know when something is out of place.
> > Will I go out and buy > > a ton of links? No, not just yet...Google is slowly making good > > changes.
> True, although I think they would make changes faster were it not for > a fear of collateral damage.
> That said though, I still feel uncomfortable when I read someone > write, "If they can do it and get away with it, why shouldn't I?". > You know you aren't going to go out on a binge link buying spree and > even I know you aren't, it's just that there are a lot of people > reading these posts and seeing someone of your knowledge and > experience saying something like that, it might fall upon the wrong > eyes and end up causing someone serious trouble for their site as well > as their wallet. :-(
And thank God... Google is careful of this, people ask why there site is bouncing around so we understand change.
"Someone of your knowledge and experience saying something like that, it might fall upon the wrong eyes"
VERY good point, if you read my blog I talk about following the rules of natural link building so much I have lost all my friends. SEOs do not want to even see this post because most of them get client sites ranked simply by buying links in areas still passing favor. What we can tell newbies is to STAY AWAY from buying pagerank if you want to show up in future algorithms, in todays algorithms it is still the way, let's agree on that?
> > cass - I wouldn't report a thing but this guy is buying links in paid > > areas, this is "buying pagerank" which violates the guidelines and in > > reality is buying search position.
> If he wasn't buying links, or spamming, or hiding content/links, you > wouldn't report him, of course. I report spamdexing scraper sites > that link to my pages even though there is some chance they might be > passing at least some PageRank and they are no where near my pages in > the SERPs.
> I report them because I feel it is the right thing to do.
> I also get the added benefit of experimenting each time to see what > Google does. ;-)
> > The guys site has been around for > > many years, it did not shoot to the top until after he started buying > > his way there.
> Ok, although that is not 100% conclusive, it's close enough for > horseshoes, hand grenades and low yield thermal nuclear devices. :-()
> I guess though that it is a red herring anyway, the site is buying > links for the purposes of trying to game the SEs. Nail "em.
> > I have a few sites, this guy even has contacted me > > directly to buy a link on my related blog, he is very clever. Old > > site, relevant products, keyword rich incoming links from many paid > > areas = search position. You are right, pagerank might not exactly be > > what is getting the site there but surely the links are.
> That brings it even closer to 100%. So he is essentially trying to > buy PageRank AND authority.
> > I have been watching this area for 5 years and can almost feel a > > change when it happens, it is very eye opening.
> True, I'm the same way. You watch something long enough and you can > begin to know when something is out of place.
> > Will I go out and buy > > a ton of links? No, not just yet...Google is slowly making good > > changes.
> True, although I think they would make changes faster were it not for > a fear of collateral damage.
> That said though, I still feel uncomfortable when I read someone > write, "If they can do it and get away with it, why shouldn't I?". > You know you aren't going to go out on a binge link buying spree and > even I know you aren't, it's just that there are a lot of people > reading these posts and seeing someone of your knowledge and > experience saying something like that, it might fall upon the wrong > eyes and end up causing someone serious trouble for their site as well > as their wallet. :-(
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