Account Options

  1. Sign in
The old Google Groups will be going away soon.
Switch to the new Google Groups.
Google Groups Home
« Groups Home
Discussions > Crawling, indexing, and ranking > Here's One for the Experts
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  Messages 1 - 25 of 91 - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals)   Newer >
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
Jazzer  
View profile  
 More options Jun 27 2007, 11:21 pm
From: Jazzer
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:21:26 -0700
Local: Wed, Jun 27 2007 11:21 pm
Subject: Here's One for the Experts
My page http://www.paultobey.com/piano-lesson.html was ranked as high
as #7 on Google.com only 2 weeks ago for the keyword term "piano
lesson."

Next thing I know it's on page 2, then 4 then 5 and now page 8.

I've been optimizing my site for a long time and have never seen
anything quite like this.  I'm completely at a loss.

By the way the same web page ranks #2 on Yahoo.com. Click here to see.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=piano+lesson&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&c...

What gives?  Thanks in advance for your expert advise!


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
webado  
View profile  
 More options Jun 27 2007, 11:47 pm
From: webado
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 03:47:25 -0000
Local: Wed, Jun 27 2007 11:47 pm
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
That page last got cached on June 15.
So it's fair to assume it got indexed for  that content soon after.

However the sites that do come up before appear to be legitimate
sites, so it's a matter of competition.

I find Xenu take an awful long time to crwl, so something's holding it
back. Could be redirections.

Errrmmm..  linkmachine.net .... this means reciprocal links ... a no-
no in Googledom.

On Jun 27, 11:21 pm, Jazzer wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
webado  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 12:45 am
From: webado
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:45:44 -0000
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 12:45 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Well there are some serious problems.

Your site is not issueing a 404 for missing files. It's doing a 302 to
a custom error page. This is bad.

See this:
http://oyoy.eu/page/headers/?full=1&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.paultobey.co...

This too, from Xenu's crawl:
http://www.paultobey.com/store/linus-and-lucy.html
redirected to: http://www.paultobey.com/404.html
status code: 302 (object temporarily moved)
linked from page(s):
        http://www.paultobey.com/store/product.php?productid=16137

Then you have other redirections galore. Things like:

http://www.paultobey.com/music-composer.html
redirected to: http://www.paultobey.com/pianist.html
status code: 301 (object permanently moved)
linked from page(s):
        http://www.paultobey.com/online-music-store.html

and

http://www.paultobey.com/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=80
redirected to: http://www.paultobey.com/blog/?p=80
status code: 302 (object temporarily moved)
linked from page(s):
        http://www.paultobey.com/blog/?p=80

and many many others.

You should not redirect any urls encountered in navigation. Change the
urls in navigation instead, to match their final destination.
Redirections are for incoming links only.

I am quite sure that for the online store aprt you should disallow at
least some urls in your robots.txt file. Anythign to do with login and
checkout for instance.
Anything involving sorting results. No idea if your store application
can lend itself to this kind of paring. It seems not.

I use Xenu: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html

On Jun 27, 11:47 pm, webado wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jazzer  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 8:30 am
From: Jazzer
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:30:36 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 8:30 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Thanks Webdo, I'll research your suggestions and take action.  In
terms of Link Machine, I only use it to index relative sites and sites
that have significant page rank.  Can I keep the links and get rid of
the program?

On Jun 28, 12:45 am, webado wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Len  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 10:01 am
From: Len
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:01:12 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 10:01 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
"Errrmmm..  linkmachine.net.... thismeansreciprocallinks... a no-
 no in Googledom."

An just how was the internet built?  Why are reciprocal links a "no
no" all of a sudden?  And if they are, why do many of the website
directories require one?

I just don't get it.

Leonard Bartholomew, a Link Machine user.
www.moxie-drive.com

On Jun 27, 11:47 pm, webado wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
webado  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 10:47 am
From: webado
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:47:31 -0000
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 10:47 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Oh I was just mentioning it because Google makes it pretty clear  you
shoud not  participate in link exchange schemes nor buy/sell links for
the purpose of icnreasing PR. They are ok fro purpose of bringing
traffic (buit then such liks shoudl have rel="nofollow" on them, so
robtos don't crawl them, oly human visitors would).

Sometimes the mere mention of link exchange on a site may bring up red
flags in Google's robots.

For Len:

Of course links are what makes the web go round.

But reciprocal links are too often used for the sole purpose of
building pr, thus an obvious no-no. They need to be natural links.

There's a fine line in there somewhere, and if you are cultivating
link building by checking other sites PR and  ask for backlinks that
way,  instead of linking to them because you find them an ehancement
to your site's content, and hoping that those who link to you do it
for the same reson, then you are pretty obviously interested only in
the PR boosting aspect of links. A lot is in the intent. How much of
that can be detected by robtos, I don't know. Possibly sometimes more
than by us.

On Jun 28, 8:30 am, Jazzer wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Phil Payne  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 10:57 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:57:29 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 10:57 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts

> A lot is in the intent. How much of that can be detected by robtos,
> I don't know. Possibly sometimes more than by us.

I think that's a safe assumption.  Google has a copy of the Internet
on its own servers - who knows how many data mining daemons are run
against it and by how many research groups doing all manner of
things.  Quite possibly Google itself doesn't know.

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Bambarbia Kirkudu!  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 11:15 am
From: Bambarbia Kirkudu!
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:15:07 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 11:15 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
That is really very funny:
"was ranked as high as #7 on Google.com only 2 weeks ago for the
keyword term "piano lesson.""

I noticed that: 99.99% of SEO are failed software engineers, and they
believe into "rank for search term".

Tokenizer is #2 for Tokenizer. Funny? I'd like it to be #77 for Lenovo
instead.

http://www.tokenizer.org - Online Shopping Search Engine
http://www.seobook.com - Cool Book (really!)
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/6/prweb535352.htm - New Robot

On Jun 27, 11:21 pm, Jazzer wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Bambarbia Kirkudu!  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 11:19 am
From: Bambarbia Kirkudu!
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:19:24 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 11:19 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts

>My page http://www.paultobey.com/piano-lesson.html was ranked as high
>as #7 on Google.com only 2 weeks ago for the keyword term "piano
>lesson."

Don't worry too much if your site is new... it will suddenly go up and
down until stabilize. Google uses a lot of information sources to
calculate placement of your page for "piano lesson" search terms:
Google Analytics, Google Toolbar, Google AdSense, and more.

On Jun 27, 11:21 pm, Jazzer wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jazzer  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 10:33 pm
From: Jazzer
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:33:40 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 10:33 pm
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Hmmm.  Well, in response, the site is not new.  Been around since
1997.  And, I'm not sure if you're poking fun at my previous serp
ranking at #7 on Google.com for "piano lesson." or not.

The fact is, that term is very important to my website plan.  Why?
Because it gets over 26,000 searches per month on google alone.  And,
my concern is why it dropped so rapidly to page 8.  Especially since
it's still #2 on google for same term.  You can verify here....

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=piano+lesson&fr=yfp-t-453&toggle=1&c...

My site is paultobey.com.

I'm with Webado on this one.  I've uncovered several store errors and
broken links.  It'll take a few weeks of crawling to bounce back, but
I'll get there.

Thanks.

On Jun 28, 11:19 am, Bambarbia Kirkudu! wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jazzer  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28 2007, 11:38 pm
From: Jazzer
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:38:54 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jun 28 2007 11:38 pm
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Sorry, typo.  That's #2 on Yahoo.com

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=piano+lesson&fr=yfp-t-453&toggle=1&c...

On Jun 28, 10:33 pm, Jazzer wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
JohnMu  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 4:05 am
From: JohnMu
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:05:48 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 4:05 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
You need to drop the unnatural link exchanges. And do a lot of work on
getting natural links.

The internet was not built on "you link to me and I'll link to you" -
it was built on people linking to other people's sites because it
contained something valuable for the user.

See http://www.jlh-design.com/2007/06/been-caught-stealing/

"If you're running a site in a specific niche that has garnered most
of it's authority from unnatural linking between sites through
exchanges and Google busts up that linking ring, some people are not
going to be happy. If your site's links were comprised of mainly
industry wide exchanges expect a big drop, on the other hand if your
competition had a good amount of real links, expect them to weather
the storm better than you. "

There's no magic trick - the "spammy techniques" used to work for your
site, be glad of the time you had. Now get to work on getting good,
natural links. Remove the link-exchanges from your site, file a
reinclusion request  (though it most likely will not change anything)
and get to work at getting good links.

John


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 6:50 am
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:50:17 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 6:50 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Hey John I did not know you are an expert!
How many years does one have to work as a programmer to become one?
30 years? I guess that qualifies you!

<__>

On Jun 29, 5:05 pm, JohnMu wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Phil Payne  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 6:53 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:53:19 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 6:53 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts

> Hey John I did not know you are an expert!
> How many years does one have to work as a programmer to become one?
> 30 years? I guess that qualifies you!

No, sorry.  It would qualify me, too - and that might be a mistake.

(Started December 1969 on IBM 1401s.)


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 7:24 am
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:24:48 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 7:24 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Ha, Ha! Punch cards in Cobol.....

Visa must be proud of you!

On Jun 29, 7:53 pm, Phil Payne wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
JohnMu  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 7:34 am
From: JohnMu
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:34:07 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 7:34 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
> Hey John I did not know you are an expert!

Here's my expert profile: http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_3535425.html
Heh, that was an interesting time...

John


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 8:11 am
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:11:45 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 8:11 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
John the way you say things in this forum, I would even feel ashamed
to look at your profile!

Your words speak your professionalism!

Igor

On Jun 29, 8:34 pm, JohnMu wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Phil Payne  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 8:33 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:33:48 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 8:33 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts

> Ha, Ha! Punch cards in Cobol.....
> Visa must be proud of you!

How did you guess?

1401 Autocoder with Ptapes and macros, at first.  I don't think there
was a COBOL compiler for the 1401.  I didn't learn COBOL until 1971,
and I've lost count of the number of languages I've used since then.

Then IBM Assembler and - as you guessed - data input and validation of
punched cards (the old credit card vouchers) for Barclaycard, now part
of the Visa scheme.  Metal trays of 3,000 cards each, one every ninety
seconds into each of four IBM 2540 card readers.  Four to a shift,
also printing 40 boxes of fanfold.  Modern computer operators get to
sit down - we never did.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 8:39 am
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:39:27 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 8:39 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
I am second generation from you!
Fortran on the DEC

Or should we say third! <__>

The first one was IBM navy Cobol.

Actually Cobol is the name of the navy officer who designed the
language for decripiton!
You know - NSA...

I guess a bit of topic!
<__> Maybe way bit....

On Jun 29, 9:33 pm, Phil Payne wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Phil Payne  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 8:42 am
From: Phil Payne
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:42:45 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 8:42 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts

> Actually Cobol is the name of the navy officer who designed the
> language for decripiton!

Then it would be called Hopper.

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 8:44 am
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:44:03 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 8:44 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Hey I had to write 500 pages of Fortran code to run SPSX lag
correlation modeling on DEC.

I put in the job in the evning and come back in the morning to debug!

Sometimes it took me weeks and months just to get a routine to
compile!
And then run it so I can see the results.

<__>

So every morning I would come in to the computer facility and get a
nasty suprise.

I would ask my mentor for help!

He would say, "Bug, debug!"
Got to have the cain of Raid on hand at all times..........

On Jun 29, 9:33 pm, Phil Payne wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 8:48 am
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:48:55 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 8:48 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
You know all the mark up languages and scripting is so easy!
Just takes time! Includes, functions, classes!

I love the routines and variable declarations!
We did not even have arrays so had to build them!

The only thing I hate is regex! I use to build mathematic modeling
with routines in Pascal....but my brain is to small for regex----or
have not wasted enough time---->

On Jun 29, 9:44 pm, ivb wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Bambarbia Kirkudu!  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 11:41 am
From: Bambarbia Kirkudu!
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:41:39 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 11:41 am
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts

> Hmmm.  Well, in response, the site is not new.  Been around since
> 1997.  And, I'm not sure if you're poking fun at my previous serp
> ranking at #7 on Google.com for "piano lesson." or not.

Hi Jazzer, I am not poking fun! My first post about "rank for search
term" is not applicable for your specific case, so I posted next one
and forgot to delete 99.99% ;)

>My page http://www.paultobey.com/piano-lesson.html was ranked as high
>as #7 on Google.com only 2 weeks ago for the keyword term "piano
>lesson."
>Next thing I know it's on page 2, then 4 then 5 and now page 8.

Of course, it must happen with such a huge Search Engine as Google
- you may occasionally connect to different servers
- many users already know about your site, and most clicks go to a
different page via Google Toolbar, even with lower PR
and more... many more...

Do not worry, when you monitor your SERP placement, please, check
pages of your competitors, they are also roving in the index!


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jazzer  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 12:16 pm
From: Jazzer
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:16:42 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Bambarbia,

Please explain what you mean by real competition? Does not 26,000
searches per month for search term "piano lesson" constitute as real
competition.  There are several online piano lesson companies and
individuals competing for this market.  I personally have 650 already
signed up to receive their first lesson free and most of that traffic
came from seo.  My conversion rate will be around 10% (based on
previous experience.)  At $300 per course that's significant cause for
doing the best seo I can. There's a lot at stake.  It's not a hobby
it's a business.

If I'm missunderstaing your question, please explain.  Thanks.

On another note, for all webmasters.  I noticed that according to Xenu
I have "301 moved permanently" notices for links that point to
folders.  For example.  Most of my internal links to the blog are
writting as "/blog"  without the trailing forward slash.  Should I be
linking to "/blog/" or even to "/blog/index.php" ????

Can somebody please explain the difference in seo terms?

Thanks in advance for your help.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ivb  
View profile  
 More options Jun 29 2007, 12:22 pm
From: ivb
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:22:28 -0000
Local: Fri, Jun 29 2007 12:22 pm
Subject: Re: Here's One for the Experts
Jazzer are you piano teacher or an SEO?
Do your clients get two for the price of one?

On Jun 30, 1:16 am, Jazzer wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Messages 1 - 25 of 91   Newer >
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »