As you know, I've been fighting for my shop, and the jobs of 4 here (in the last days).
Someone kindly pointed me to Matt Cutts blog, and said I should try to write him there and make him aware of my special situation (with losing Christmas sales, losing my shop, and being dropped by Google for something I did not do myself - and aren't sure what is)..
While emotionally effected and sad, due to my particular situation, I humbly tried to catch Matts attention in the comment section. I've asked for forgiveness for the form, and the desperate situation 5 shop-owners currently have in Denmark. Not 5 crazy SEO people, but 5 serious shops that have their daily work in a completely other area. My shop deals with design furniture in a small city, 60km west of Copenhagen. Below is a newspaper article about me, from when I opened the shop. I'm a real person. Not a nerd, not an SEO expert (even though I feel I'm getting to be one:), and not a spammer/hacker.
I'm more than willing to admit and accept that Google is free from problems, and that our end is responsible for every problem. My interest is only to figure out what the problems are and have them fixed. My shop provider has shown the same interest and tried to communicate it to Google in my reinclusion request.
You should be able to see my last days posts to Matt here, if Matt didn't remove them.
What I can't believe is that Matt would be able to joke with his friends, while completely ignoring 5 small businesses in Denmark and tens of employees - cought in a virtual conflict between Google and Denmarks largest shop system provider. I call it a virtual conflict, because the shop system provider is also willing to do whatever is needed, but as any change for them will have dramatic impact, they need to understand what they can do differently. A new shop system without frames is in the works, but it will be a good while before any existing shops can expect to be ported over to such a new system. Many shops will be gone at that time, since we already missed the Christmas sales!
I've offered to do ANYTHING in my power and I lie flat on my stomach for Google. All I'm seeking is a small piece of advice about how a framed shop can present its products in a way where both Google and end-users can see the products. Should we use the noframes tag (we tried), should we generate a static set of pages (we tried), should we let google index the framesets (we tried). Nothing has worked for my shop, while other shops thrive with a method that employs redirects - redirects which Google might see as sneaky (from a pure mathematical evaluation), but which in reality are just to get users from the static pages into the same framed site (i.e. no cheating, no shift of content, no special benefits).
It's Christmas eve here (5:00 AM in the morning here and a 28 old girl is still up - begging Google for help - and I'm still hoping to get a guideline that I can pass to my shop system provider).. Matt is writing in his Blog (e.g. addressing an insignificant comment of a humorous nature). He must have seen my many comments and all I've asked for is a small acknowledgement for him to indicate that he is aware of my case (it's not like I need his help on Christmas eve, but he could at least ACK that he has seen my messages of extreme dispair).
This type of behavior exceeds my wildest immagination. Has the world gotten this cold and have I used my money to help build another global monster/monopoly, who doesn't care one bit about its users (until a case reaches the top anyway). This is very hard for a soft, sweet and always helpful girl to comprehend.
I wonder if Google's strategy to shut me up is to keep ignoring me, until I say something emotionally that they can use as an excuse for not dealing with my question/situation. "Sussie called Matt Cutts arrogant. We can't take her serious!". Something like this.
Well, I hope that I'm simply getting paranoid and that there is another explanation for what I'm seeing from Matt.
You need some patience. You've made, what, six threads about this in the last day? The earth does not revolve around you, no matter how much you try to tilt its gravitational forces. Google is known for not being super-speedy with regards to support, and people sometimes have to wait days or weeks to hear back from them. Matt Cutts is not your concierge, and neither is anybody else here. Did you even look at Adam's response to your other thread? (http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Webmaster_Help-Indexing/tree/br...)
Google is made up of people, too, and those people also celebrate the holidays. Stop wasting your time here, and stop wasting ours.
This might help you understand why he isn't commenting...
Before you leave a comment on his blog he asks that you read his guidelines for comments...
"I have a limited amount of time to blog, so going forward I won't be able to answer site-specific questions or requests. If I answer one question about a site, that just encourages more people to post with questions about their site. Those types of posts are rarely of interest to most other readers. That includes "Matt, I think I have a great business and/or patent idea; will you please call me?" posts. Since I started this blog, the comment-to-post ratio is over 50 comments to every one of my posts. I'm grateful for that interest, but there's no way I can respond to every comment. The best way for me to spend my time is to talk about topics that are of wide interest. I'm sorry that I can't give feedback on particular sites. Going forward, I won't moderate questions/comments about individual sites to be visible to everyone; I hope it makes sense why not. Your best bet is to ask questions that generally applicable to a lot of people."
I'm happy that someone would stay up at night time, in anticipation of my next post, regardless of the reasons. I take it as a sign that my passion about my shop and my Google misfortune shines through. I've asked for forgiveness for putting out these many posts, and fully admit that I'm emotional about losing my creation and being put on the street. I can't take it lightly when I led down my investor (who trusted part of his own small-scale savings in me) and when I have to lay off people that I care about. I'm emotional about having to show my mother that her single doughter failed with her dream. Excuse me for being human.
It's 7:30AM (7:51 now as I passed this spot again) on Christmas night in Denmark, which should show that I'm serious and that this misfortune is preventing any rest for me.
Someone here seemed to indicate, on a more personal note, that I'm someone born with a golden spoon in my hand and that noone ever said "No!" to me. It hurts me deeply and literally brings tears to my eyes. I grew up without my father (who flat out disregarded me, like some of his other kids - who were "accidents"). My last name is Sicilian, which might give a clue about my fathers merits. I met my father for the first time when I was 19, along with 4 siblings. I have known him till about 1 year ago, where I, because of shop preparations had to turn down an invitation. In response, I got a text-message saying that "he would never talk to me again". Knowing his Sicilian temper I figured he was hurt and that it would pass (like it does for most Italiens). It didn't. I have had my family cut off since then, and was once again abandoned by him. It almost felt that me accomplishing something in life, would have to be accompanied by a great sacrifice. My father now lives in Bulgaria, with his new wife and kid (who I'm sure is more intersting than me). If anyone here has tried complete rejection as a kid, by their father, then they know exactly how that feels. As a result of this rejection, I got teased all the way through school (you project strength while feeling rejected). To those that have tried that, they know EXACTLY what that feels like (it didn't help that I was a natural red-head, after my mother). Well, I didn't give up on life, but I became a fighter, knowing that I had to do extraordinarily well in order to pick up the pieces of my misrable beginning and get things sorted out. I'm a firm believer in the American dream (and the Danish faritale of the "ugly duckling" inspired me as well).. They touch a romantic and live-reassuring nerve in me ... Getting to where I am today, without spreading hurt and anger like other people have done to me, is an accomplishment that I can finally start to appreciate. My shop was a successful project that I had made from scratch, my employees are dear to me, and I have my own place to live. To those that have tried setting up a shop from scratch and getting all the pieces together, and also earning the cash required, will know what that's like (as a young woman in particular). Well, this is all very personal, but I hurt deeply and I'm naive enough (by choice) to call even on the biggest company for help. I'm also humble enough to admit any failure and take full responsibility. As with anything else I've said, I can document any single bit of data that I've put out here. The value of honesty was the first lesson life tought me (and probably why some still care to listen to me) and I've appreciated my lessons - and thank God for each and every one of them.
Now, I know some of you can't resist the easy pray and will jump at me .. I know my story sounds like a big cliche and this level of honesty is difficult to relate to. The bad news is that this isn't a movie, but my real story. I've lived this and fought daemons from hell to retain a heart and a belief in the human race. I'm vulnerable and putting myself on the spot makes me an easy target. If you feel that picking further on me is the right thing to do, then go ahead and do it. You won't be able to throw anything at me that I haven't tried worse before.
Bad things can happen to good people. I've planned for everything I could. I've NOT put all my eggs in one basket, but I just couldn't foresee getting booted by Google on the 6th. of December, in my first year - right after buying the Christmas stock and the marketing campaign. I couldn't foresee not being able to get out a single piece of information from Google about why mine and 5 other shops where thrown out of the index, while my main competitor (using the same structure and shop system) got all my business and remains in the index to date. I've taken the challenge of learning all I can about Google and the challenge of making my shop provider open up as well (another struggle where I had to be humiliated, but I didn't give up). Anyone in here, will see now that taking this struggle with my shop provider was needed for me, but the hundreds of shops that are running fine, weren't supporting me.
Despite having made aware of my unfortunate situation, I can see Matt Cutts making jokes right over the top of my head, while completely ignoring the small businesses that ask for a simple guideline on how to structure a framed site, to Google's satisfaction. I find it odd to prioritize that way.
Bear in mind that I've not created my shop system, even though I'm ultimately responsible for using it. I'm a user! I deal with design furniture, and I do my best. If Google's motto is "do no evil", then I think they need dialog with my shop provider and not randomly exclude their clients. Google was immediately made aware of the shop provider and asked questions by them, all the way back around December 6th. This took place through Google Denmark and through the Inclusion request. The shop provider heard nothing back and have been unable to take a path that would satisfy their many shops.
The shop provider has announced that a frame-less version of their shop-system will ultimately be made available, but by the time it's there, I'm gone. It shouldn't have to be like this. My shop provider designed for people (they have outlined a number of benefits of frames in regards to a shop system), but now it's actually Google that's implicitly dictating how their system needs to be. Getting a guideline from Google about how a framed shop site is best structured, so it will satisfy both the users and the sarch engine is a pretty humble request. Rather than making a fuss about it, it would be simpler to just address it head on.
As I mention in my blog posts, I'll gladly admit to anything and take full blame, even though I didn't make the shop system..
Sorry if I didn't get to address all the comments in this post.
I definitely agree with you on the patience. What you can't see without me telling you, is that I didn't start fixing this problem today. I started contacting Google on December 6. My shop-provider contacted Google a few days after.
While I write this, I see Matt Cutts having just found the time to prepare a blog post about his cat.
First, I agree with you and that's why I ask Google this simple question:
- What is the proper way to get the frames indexed? What does Google recommend, as the ultimate resource on the subject.
Now, to address your post a little more/critically, just for the theory of things.... If you can't have Javascript redirects and frames, then please explain the hundreds of shops that run in parallel to mine that have exactly this - and continue to have this - despite being crawled daily. Shops that btw are putting me out of business and getting my market share. Can't we expect Google, which is a black box based on an algorithm, to be at least fairly consistant (if indeed the user-friendly javascript redirect is the problem - which I'm not at all sure it is)? If you have followed my postings, you will have seen examples of such sites.
I know you can just say that Google will get to them or some other speculative statement. We don't know, and it might be, sure. But I do know for a fact that these sites are crawled a lot and that they continue to operate. I'm not talking a few sites. I also know that Google processed my re-inclusion request, and with that was a description of my shop providers system. That description did not lead to any additional comments from Google and it hasn't lead to additional exclusion. Go figure.
Also, the Java redirect can be explained .. The webmaster guidelines say that a webmaster ultimately should be able to explain his choices. The redirects are a compromise and a solution to a technical problem with frames. It's NOT to cheat Google, it's to help Google and to help the users, in a 100% clean and unharmful way. It's not spamming, it's not deceiving, it's not a way to present different content than advertised, etc. It's solely to allow the crawler to index pages that it understands and for the user to see the framed version. Surely, an algorithm can flag this as being bad, but then provide an alternate solution that Google supports and warn our shop provider that Google no longer accepts the method that our shop provider choose (probably as a compromise, as they have developed their system alongside Google developing their algorithm). Anyway, I'd rather not get dragged into a deep discussion about something I didn't design and only recently got to understand. The e-mail from Google to me said that my 301 front-page redirect was the problem and I trust that. If Google had told me that other redirects were the problem, then I would have trusted that. I'm a user; I'm not a shop system designer. I'm asking for a guideline and I'm not at all telling Google what to do. Most of all, I'm describing a situation that Google might be able to recognize as problematic and solve (or at least help solve). Secondly I'm pointing out that I'm a user that unfortunately got cought in the middle, with some extremely unfortunate timing, and I'd like to make things right (through my shop provider, who I have on high alert in case I hear anything). No more, no less.
"Now, I know some of you can't resist the easy pray and will jump at me .. I know my story sounds like a big cliche and this level of honesty is difficult to relate to. "
Being someone who has lived on the street... And someone who has resurrected and lost a business... I cannot sympathize with you... nor can I excuse the way you have behaved and treated others throughout this entire forum...
Everyone here has jumped at the opportunity to help you and you have managed to offend and shoot down nearly everyone in the process... You have done nothing to help yourself...
If happy to hear you pulled out of your misfortune.
In this forum I've tried to be very clear as to what type of advice I was seeking. It's been very challenging and I've deliberately tried to challenge the quality of any idea, rather than blindly accepting any input provided to me. It's a very difficult balance, when under my kind of pressure.
Given my situation, I wouldn't want to risk being sent off in wild goose chaces, like with the W3 validation. Had I for example gone down that path with my last energy and hope, valuable time could have been lost in the wrong place - as other people argued as well. W3 validation is a good idea I am sure, but it's not what is causing my present problems.
I understand that you only meant well and I'm sorry if I have appeared insensitive. I'm not a native English speaker, so my language is constantly at risk of being "raw" and without the delicate understanding of how it sounds to the native speaker. To relate to that, imagine you learning Danish and having to express yourself delicately/convincingly to me in a stressful situation - where everything you fought for is on the line. I can't begin to describe the feelings that have rushed through my head this past month and how it's been affecting me. I'm fighting unknown details in other people's systems, to safe my business. It's been a surreal experience to me and the other shop owners.
I'm not sure it might be a good idea to invite the other shop owners in here btw? (anyone's feedback is welcome).
Right now, I'd prefer the technical advice from Google, because I have so much at stake and I'd hate to make another mistake. I'm trying to be responsible and strong, not impolite.
My apology in the previous e-mail was directed towards Matt Cutts and Google for me getting carried away in my month-long disappointment - and writing while without rest for more than 48 hours. I'll go rest again now and hope for a Christmas miracle.
In case I have upset anyone in this race to fix my site, then it wasn't my intention .. I'm DEEPLY sorry if I did, so I ask you humbly to accept my apologies.
A very merry Christmas to you Mr. Gamma. and everyone else that have followed my case Sussie
