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Jonathan Dingman  
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 More options Nov 27 2007, 10:24 pm
From: Jonathan Dingman
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:24:25 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 27 2007 10:24 pm
Subject: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
We have a few sites that rely heavily upon SEO.  We also have a lot of
sites on our server, so we want to minimize load time and maximize
efficiency.

With those key components in mind, here are some thoughts.

I've been contacting a well known search expert back and forth.

The question of: does using XML and XSLT together make for a well
search engine optimized site?

The XSLT would be processed all on the client-side so the XML would be
output plainly to Google.

This was their most relevant response:

"Googlebot will index XML as XML. Google does rank XML pages in the
main index but they prefer to rank a normal HTML page. So, yes they
understand it but we still should provide an HTML version"

So my question here is this:  what would be the best way to tackle
this and accomplish a lite-weight website while still achieving a well
optimized site for the search engines?


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Scott Ji  
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(1 user)  More options Nov 27 2007, 11:47 pm
From: Scott Ji
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:47:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
It will be a challenge to build website like that,

On Nov 28, 2:24 pm, Jonathan Dingman wrote:


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Robbo  
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(3 users)  More options Nov 28 2007, 6:10 am
From: Robbo
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:10:08 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 28 2007 6:10 am
Subject: Re: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
Jonathan

I think that a lot would depend on the nature of the site, its type of
content and modes of user interaction.

Do you fear the site being too slow primarily because of:

a.  sheer amount of data? - if so, is this structured and repetitive -
can large parts it be coded?  Can results be paged?

b.  complex interactions with the user?

c.  huge volume of visitors causing overload, WWWait  and perhaps
timeouts?

Is the traffic load likely to be fairly stable/steady?  OR likely to
experience sudden bursts of hectic activity in certain circumstances/
certain times of day/certain events (eg ticket sales for my next world
concert series (:-)  ) /etc?

Have you fully exhausted all the normal/typical/standard ways of
achieving a "lean-clean" website such as:

1.  Fully semantic markup, XHTML Strict, no deprecated old-style HTML
tags, carefully worked out CSS, avoiding redundancy/repetition.

2.  All CSS definitions (and Javascript if you have any) held in
shared external files (not inline styling and not using head section).

3.  No use of tables for layout (use only for truly tabular data). No
nested tables under any circumstances.

4.  Nil or minimum use of graphics.  All images optimized to smallest
weight.

5.  Using a compiled language environment such as ASP.Net with C# or
VB.  (if there is a lot of server-side processing to be done).

6.  Ensuring database tables are fully normalized, use concise methods
of data representation, etc.

... and so on.

Most sites that perform very slowly:
(i)  are very poorly coded (server-side, X/HTML, JS, CSS);
(ii) try to do too much all at once (over-busy pages; excessive
dependence on complex database retrieval);
(ii) have inadequate infrastructure (poor server hosting etc) relative
to the amount of traffic experienced.

Does this help?

Robbo

On Nov 28, 3:24 am, Jonathan Dingman wrote:


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RainboRick  
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(1 user)  More options Nov 28 2007, 12:03 pm
From: RainboRick
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:03:59 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 28 2007 12:03 pm
Subject: Re: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
The response you posted from the search engine expert was accurate.
While Google and the other search engines can index a wide variety of
document types, non-HTML documents do not tend to rank well because
they lack the common mark-up facilities of HTML that allow authors to
add titles to their documents and to otherwise emphasize their
keywords.  I expect that the day when search engines develop better
facilities for indexing XML/XSLT documents is not far off, but its not
here yet.  You'll be better off if you can make sure that there are
HTML versions of the most important pages on your websites.  There are
several ways to go about this, and the best method will depend on the
nature of your sites and the content itself.  I'm sure your consultant
will have some good suggestions.  Good luck!

On Nov 27, 9:24 pm, Jonathan Dingman wrote:


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Chris Gunn  
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(4 users)  More options Nov 28 2007, 12:58 pm
From: Chris Gunn
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:58:01 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 28 2007 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
On Nov 27, 8:24 pm, Jonathan Dingman wrote:

> So my question here is this:  what would be the best way to tackle
> this and accomplish a lite-weight website while still achieving a well
> optimized site for the search engines?

Howdy,

You do that by building the web pages in HTML 3.2 and doctype
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
You don't pay any attention to silly words like "deprecated".

Tags like <DIV> and <SPAN> are not needed if you know how to use all
of theTable elements as originally intended and a little bit of CSS
for fonts and colors.

Then, ONLY if absolutely necessary, you add some scripting for special
effects.

Try the http://seagullcontrol.com site, which has some fun effects.
Most of the home page is dynamically generated.  I have the advantage
of the compiled BIZyCart Ecommerce Server software so the pages are
very fast.  They get front page ranking for all of their keywords.

I can rebuild most of the pages cited here to 1/3 of their original
size and you won't see any difference except they are faster and the
search engines love them.

Chris
BIZynet Webmaster


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nick shepherd  
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(3 users)  More options Nov 29 2007, 8:59 am
From: nick shepherd
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:59:21 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Nov 29 2007 8:59 am
Subject: Re: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
It's already been answered from an SEO standpoint but have you also
considered the repercussions of relying on the XSL translations to be
done on the client side?  Not all browsers support XML / XSLT
translations, specifically older versions of Opera.  Relying solely on
the clients browser for tasks as important as the XSL translation
would be for your site isn't necessarily very smart when you have
several server side scripting languages that can do the translation
themselves and you wouldn't have to worry about depending on the
client's browser and you could also still present google with a well
formed html page.

Nick

On Nov 27, 10:24 pm, Jonathan Dingman wrote:


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James Logsdon  
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 More options Nov 29 2007, 4:18 pm
From: James Logsdon
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:18:24 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Nov 29 2007 4:18 pm
Subject: Re: XML + XSLT = Good SEO?
I do all the development work for Jonathan and we've been discussing
using XSL for a while now. Thank you to the people who replied
attempting to actually help.

XSL is incredibly powerful, which is why we want to use it. Having the
backend generate XML instead of using a template engine saves a good
bit of CPU on each access, and modifying cached files is much easier.
Being able to modify cached files is huge for us as most of our "main"
data doesn't change daily, but each access can have different elements
in the menu which need to be changed on the fly.

On Nov 28, 6:10 am, Robbo wrote:

> Do you fear the site being too slow primarily because of:

The site is already plenty fast, so no to all of the below.

> Have you fully exhausted all the normal/typical/standard ways of
> achieving a "lean-clean" website such as:

We use fully compliant XHTML and CSS. We've done everything we can to
reduce the size of output while still maintaining standards.

> 5.  Using a compiled language environment such as ASP.Net with C# or
> VB.  (if there is a lot of server-side processing to be done).

Not using ASP.NET. It's possible on a *nix server, but not advisable.
We have no plans of investing in Windows Server any time soon.

On Nov 29, 8:59 am, nick shepherd wrote:

> It's already been answered from an SEO standpoint but have you also
> considered the repercussions of relying on the XSL translations to be
> done on the client side?  Not all browsers support XML / XSLT
> translations, specifically older versions of Opera.  Relying solely on
> the clients browser for tasks as important as the XSL translation
> would be for your site isn't necessarily very smart when you have
> several server side scripting languages that can do the translation
> themselves and you wouldn't have to worry about depending on the
> client's browser and you could also still present google with a well
> formed html page.

We have taken this into consideration, and steps will be taken to
ensure users who can't transform XML client-side will get HTML output
instead. Transforming everything client-side is possible, but can be
costly with high-traffic websites. Caching the transformation is not
an option on the website in question as certain elements change on
every page load.

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