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Google Groups Guide Part 2 Google employee  
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(6 users)  More options Jan 3 2008, 11:13 am
From: Google Groups Guide Part 2
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:13:17 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Jan 3 2008 11:13 am
Subject: What do you think of the pages section?
Hi everyone,

It's that time again when I'd like to ask you your opinion about a
feature of this help group. As you know, the pages section on the
Google Groups Help Forum launched about a month ago. After my three
initial pages, I passed the torch to all of you, allowing you to
create and edit pages. Since that time, some great pages have been
created.

As this is a fairly new feature, I'd like to get your feeling about
its effectiveness, so that we can strive to make it even better. I
have listed some questions below.

1. Do you feel that the amount of "how to" questions and questions
about other  products have lessened? Why or why not?
2. Do you use the pages section? Why or why not?
3. What do you think would make the pages section more effective?

As always, I really value your feedback as you're the ones who use
this group and you know it well!

GGG2


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Arcadios  
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(4 users)  More options Jan 3 2008, 2:20 pm
From: Arcadios
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:20:17 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Jan 3 2008 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
1. Using pages has lessened the amount of questions I receive about
google groups. It has allowed me to give instructions to my members
without having to sit down with them on a 1 on 1 basis.
2. Yes I use them and I love the feature. It gives us a secondary
venue to help collaborate our information.
3. Organization. There needs to at least be virtual folders that will
allow us to group our info. Same with discussions.

Thanks for the hard work!


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dreamernw  
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(4 users)  More options Jan 3 2008, 2:30 pm
From: dreamernw
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:30:07 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Jan 3 2008 2:30 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Hi -

I don't know where to post this - but - I am new to Google Groups. I
have set up a group with the help of my son. But - I cannot find any
basic "how-to" information here. When I try to "Take the Tour" there
is no actual information.
I would like information on how to set up pages and files.

I posted a question a few days ago and have received no help.

Thank you!

On Jan 3, 8:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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Aldo  
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(2 users)  More options Jan 3 2008, 9:23 pm
From: Aldo
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Jan 3 2008 9:23 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
About pages, you should read this block of the Google Groups Help
Center:
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=9252

Files are easier: click on Files, right side menu, and upload. Just
recall the limit for a single file is 10 MB.
Look and recall the link "Rename or delete a file". When you'll want
to do it, tick the file, the row will become gray. Edit the name or
click on delete, right side of the row.
Save changes, at the bottom.

Hope this helps
Aldo

On Jan 3, 8:30 pm, dreamernw wrote:


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Aldo  
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(2 users)  More options Jan 4 2008, 4:22 am
From: Aldo
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 01:22:19 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 4 2008 4:22 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Hello GGG2,

Let's try.....

1) I'm afraid the off topic questions didn't lessen, on the contrary.
In the last days we had questions about subjects that had nothing to
do with Google products! I even thought that to answer to questions
about other products could be an error....who knows, maybe to answer
could mean to make this group more easy to find in a Google search
with whatsoever Google subject.
On the other hand, quite often the questions are about the possible
links between a product and another. Moreover, many people are
confusing Google groups, groups in Gmail contacts, blogs and websites.
Truely, that couple of totally off-topic questions relieved me: they
could be the demonstration that the off topic answers aren't guilty.
Simply, this group is easy to find, many people don't know what groups
are, and so they overread the word "groups", reading only "Help
Forum"!

2) I'm using and citing the pages, sure. It's easier for controlling
an answer and finding some important links, without looking
continuously for them in the Groups or general Google Help Centers. I
think also to add other links in my page, for instance.
There's something to improve...for instance "Help Links" and  "Links
to Other (not Google Groups) Product support resources" are
overlapping.

3) I believe that the nowadays problem of Pages is the poor
visibility. Whe someone is the group homepage, he can see just the
title of a couple of pages at the bottom. It would be slightly better
to have them at the beginning, above the Discussions.
The best would be to rebuild the welcome message, with a more evident
definition of groups and the charter of this groups, and finally the
titles of Pages, with direct links to them.
Given that people are obliged to see the homepage before posting, many
of them would hopefully take the time for reading these important
informations.

Cheers & thanks
Aldo

On Jan 3, 5:13 pm, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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Virden  
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(4 users)  More options Jan 4 2008, 12:12 pm
From: Virden
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:12:22 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 4 2008 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
1. The answer to your first question is an emphatic NO, questions
about matters other than Google Groups virtually swamp out questions
about Google Groups. Just count a sample of posts; I did. The Groups
Forum is getting less and less useful as a place to find out about
recent problems and features of Google Groups. I do not know why so
many people persist in writing to the Groups Help Forum about
irrelevant stuff but I suspect it is because they get answered. It is
time for some tough talk. I strongly urge people like Aldo to stop
answering those questions; you are in part the cause of the problem.
If you have such an urge to handle all questions on all subjects, do
it in the other Help Forums not here.

2. The current pages have been useful for referring questioners to
existing answers but because many problems are not caused by
malfunctions but by not understanding how Groups work in the first
place, generalized canned answers have limited application.

3. With all respect, I really see no hope for improvement here unless
and until you stop all these posts about other stuff OR change the
Forum to a generalized help group for all Google products. That is
what you have allowed it to become anyway. Make up your mind: do you
want to run a Forum for helping Google Group users or do you want to
run the present chaos?

On Jan 3, 9:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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Ken Jarvis  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 4 2008, 8:44 pm
From: Ken Jarvis
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:44:42 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 4 2008 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
I started a Page called -
 Email address of those that MAY be able to help
Where I list MY Email address.

I am getting 3 or 4 or 5 Emails a week
from FRUSTRATED PEOPLE
THAT FEEL THEY HAVE NO PLACE ELSE TO GO.

I help them the best I can.

On Jan 3, 8:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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L0GAN  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 9:36 am
From: L0GAN
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 06:36:21 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 9:36 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?

I love the pages feature as they act a bit like the Wiki principle
where all members can edit them saving us from having to post
countless individual posts and updates.


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Jim W  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 12:46 pm
From: Jim W
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:46:13 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 12:46 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
the "Pages" section is helpful; but, it is a little confusing to have
two areas where group is stored.  Ideally, there would be one section,
called "Documents" which would allow the uploading of files (current
Files Section) and the creation of documents (current Pages section).
It would also be very helpful to have some type of foldering
capability so that information could be organized a little better.  I
find that if I have a number of documents in either the "Pages" or the
"Files" sections, it becomes difficult to find the documents needed.
Some type of foldering would help this.

You are doing a great job with Google Groups!

On Jan 3, 11:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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Tomi Häsä  
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(4 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 1:10 pm
From: Tomi Häsä
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:10:29 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
On Jan 4, 7:12 pm, Virden wrote:

> 1. The answer to your first question is an emphatic NO, questions
> about matters other than Google Groups virtually swamp out questions
> about Google Groups. Just count a sample of posts; I did. The Groups
> Forum is getting less and less useful as a place to find out about
> recent problems and features of Google Groups. I do not know why so
> many people persist in writing to the Groups Help Forum about
> irrelevant stuff but I suspect it is because they get answered.

Obviously Google still needs a general forum about Google, such as the
old official one that is no longer mentioned on Google's web pages (or
is hard to find):

http://groups.google.com/group/google.public.support.general

I have been posting various news about Google to that forum so people
will find it using different keywords, but it's pretty much dead
nowadays.


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Tomi Häsä  
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(2 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 1:29 pm
From: Tomi Häsä
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:29:33 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
On Jan 4, 11:22 am, Aldo wrote:

> 1) I'm afraid the off topic questions didn't lessen, on the contrary.
> In the last days we had questions about subjects that had nothing to
> do with Google products!

Super-newbies won't read the help pages, they simply go to Google
Groups, search for something and come here, because Google Groups
search probably gives emphasis to groups with high activity, and
unfortunately this group is one of them. As long as Google Groups
search prefers high activity groups, super-newbies keep on coming
here.

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slackwareboy  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 8:33 pm
From: slackwareboy
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 17:33:45 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 8:33 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Groups-Basics/browse_thread/thr...

On Jan 4, 12:12 pm, Virden wrote:


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slackwareboy  
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(2 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 8:33 pm
From: slackwareboy
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 17:33:56 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 8:33 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Groups-Basics/browse_thread/thr...

On Jan 5, 12:46 pm, Jim W wrote:


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slackwareboy  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 5 2008, 8:34 pm
From: slackwareboy
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 17:34:02 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 5 2008 8:34 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Groups-Basics/browse_thread/thr...

On Jan 5, 1:29 pm, Tomi Häsä wrote:


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Aldo  
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(1 user)  More options Jan 9 2008, 7:08 pm
From: Aldo
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Jan 9 2008 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Hello,

I'm still having the opinion that many newbies are arriving here
because the other Help Groups and Centers are showing a link to here.
In their intentions, it's for teaching how generally Groups work, but
the result is that they're misleaded and they're thinking this is an
all-purpose group.

Moreover, after some days experience, I must conclude Virden is right:
more and more off-topic questions are answered, even just for
redirecting people, more and more questions arrive. Results of a
search should have something to do with it....in the balance of this
group, it seems enough that a small percentage of Google users is
misleaded, for being us inundated with questions.
Just now, I believe that the balance between the on-topic and off-
topic questions is going back towards the on-topic, but it needed to
stop answering.

Another my opinion is that the homepage of this group is not enough
explanatory; there's worse around in Help Groups, but there's also
something better. Only, this group should have the best one !   ;-)
Pages are poorly visible....overall when someone is adding useless or
spam pages.
I'm trying to give a constructive proposal about how IMO the homepage
should be....look in Pages....just began, but I'd like your comments.

Cheers
Aldo

On Jan 5, 7:29 pm, Tomi Häsä wrote:


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Steveo2394  
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 More options Jan 11 2008, 7:27 am
From: Steveo2394
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 04:27:16 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 11 2008 7:27 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
I think Pages additional flexibility to provide material.  The vast
majority of my members are not going to go out and modify content,
though there will be some Pages that I don't want everyone to modify!

I have used the Pages feature to compensate for some of the other
shortcomings in the other Groups area, such as Files.  The current
Files section allows only the file name to be displayed, with
additional description.  While I like the ability to edit the names of
the files, it is somewhat restrictive.  I can use the Pages function
to create a more formatted description and link to the file.

In doing the initial Page, I tried using an external editor to do this
with HTML, but found that the HTML created by MS Publisher or Word was
not digestable by the Page engine.  The provided interface is good for
basic, but that's about it.  What I would like to see is a more fully-
featured Page engine and the ability to designate a Page as the home
page for the group.

Thanks,
Steve


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Steve Freeman  
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(2 users)  More options Jan 11 2008, 8:38 pm
From: Steve Freeman
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:38:49 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 11 2008 8:38 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
i didn't think to check them, but they're quite good. do i have the
capability in my group (Election Integrity)  to put links as you do in
the FAQ?

On Jan 3, 11:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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Tomi Häsä  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 12 2008, 2:22 am
From: Tomi Häsä
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 12 2008 2:22 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
On Jan 12, 3:38 am, Steve Freeman wrote:

> i didn't think to check them, but they're quite good. do i have the
> capability in my group (Election Integrity)  to put links as you do in
> the FAQ?

Yes, you do. Look at the HTML source to see how it's done. Example:

<A href="/group/Google-Groups-Guide/web/google-groups-
faq#myaccountandsettings">1. My Account and Settings</A>

<A href="javascript:void(0);" name=myaccountandsettings>1. My Account
and Settings</A>


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Sandy S.  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 12 2008, 12:32 pm
From: Sandy S.
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:32:52 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 12 2008 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Yes, I use the page features in my groups to store files and other
stuff. I like having that option.
I do wish we could have the option of sending those pages out to
members or pending members.

On Jan 3, 11:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:


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Frederick Grose  
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 More options Jan 13 2008, 12:53 am
From: Frederick Grose
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Jan 13 2008 12:53 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
I'd like to be able to 'subscribe' to a Page for email updates like I
can for Discussions.

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Virden  
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 More options Jan 13 2008, 4:20 pm
From: Virden
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:20:11 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Jan 13 2008 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Its no fault of yours Aldo; you are a remarkably helpful guy and I
admire that. It is just that if ever misdirected messages is answered,
that doubles the volume of off topic mail here. A small fraction of
users of all Google products is large number of misdirested messages
here; answer all of them and that doubles it.

The Google employees responsible for the various Google products Help
sections need to coordinate their efforts to prevent the overflow
here. I agree with you. If someone is misdirected here, they would
never see the home page which explains what this group is about. It is
not nearly prominent enough.

On Jan 9, 5:08 pm, Aldo wrote:


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Aldo  
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(1 user)  More options Jan 14 2008, 7:43 am
From: Aldo
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:43:58 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Jan 14 2008 7:43 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Yep, indeed I'm trying to be more selective in my answers. I stopped
to answer to all questions, I'm answering to some seemingly off-topic
questions only if there's a detail involving google groups, or if I'm
seeing that people are insisting with more messages, or if the first
off-topic question is anyway evolving in a long thread.

Nevertheless, this isn't fully stopping off-topic questions.
What we need is, as you told before, a clear decision of GGG1 and GGG2
about guidelines on this topic and, just because we're talking about,
other aspects of group management such as the way of dealing with spam
messages or pages.

I'm not amazed too much about the difficulties encountered when you're
trying to show to a huge number of people how things should work....I
have a long experience about! You too, I think, I'm understanding
you're a teacher....

But just for this difficulty, the first thing to do is to show
something vey clear and eye catching to newbies or misdirected ones.
Without modesty, I believe the page I composed as a proposal for a new
group homepage, it's a good proposal. I hope it could give some ideas.

Cheers
Aldo

On 13 Jan, 22:20, Virden wrote:


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nicebutdim  
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 More options Jan 17 2008, 6:06 am
From: nicebutdim
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:06:55 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:06 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?

On Jan 3, 8:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:

Trying to understand how this Google group  works  is unbelievavbly
complicated,the only way I can even access this site is by  putting it
in
Favourites.My question about picasa2 would have been straightforward
I think.There are constant referrals to various other pages which then
refer on,to other pages .People do have an existance outside Google,it
seems one has to immerse oneself entirely in  Google,to partly
understand what is going on.We are not all  Bill Gates you know


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nicebutdim  
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 More options Jan 18 2008, 6:47 pm
From: nicebutdim
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:47:07 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 18 2008 6:47 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?

On Jan 3, 8:13 am, Google Groups Guide Part 2 wrote:

This MUST be the most irritating confusing forum I have come
across,how anyone manages to navigate absolutely amazes me.I have read
comments...somewhat confusing,,,I can't see how to...These are
masterpieces of understatement

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Aldo  
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(1 user)  More options Jan 20 2008, 8:43 am
From: Aldo
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 05:43:17 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Jan 20 2008 8:43 am
Subject: Re: What do you think of the pages section?
Nicebutdim,

You're not entitled to give advices about this group. You're not a
true Google groups user or owner or manager, you're here just because
a quick visit here could help you to understand how generally Groups
are working, about subscribing and posting.
You had a Picasa problem, you've been redirected there, you posted
there and received your answer:
http://groups.google.com/group/PicasaGuide/browse_frm/thread/500d7664...
If I would be like you, I could post in Picasa help group saying the
same, but I won't, because I'm not a Picasa user.
That's quite all, I would just add that people like you are giving us
most of the problems, they're posting off-topic, don't understand
they're in the wrong place, and answering them means just to provoke
more and more off-topic messages.
For solving this problem, I'm proposing a new homepage for this group,
that I believe it's quite self-explanatory:
http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Groups-Guide/web/homepage-propo...

So long
Aldo

On Jan 19, 12:47 am, nicebutdim wrote:


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