li'l help, please!

[Jon Pincus]

techPresident's Daily Digest today had a story about how Change.org is partnering with MySpace and a bunch of other interesting groups to build campaigns around whatever comes out from their top ten ideas.   Interesting ...

"Get FISA Right, repeal the PATRIOT Act, and restore our civil liberties" is at 39 votes, not too far from the top 10 (which would take 48 I think).   i'm pretty sure it's the #1 civil liberties idea (with a PATRIOT-act only idea in second).  so if a reasonable percentage of the people on this mailing list act, we could shoot to #1 -- which would be a great opportunity to remind people "we're still around!"

so when you have a moment, please vote it up.

http://www.change.org/ideas/view/get_fisa_right_repeal_the_patriot_act_and_restore_our_civil_liberties

thanks!

jon

--
liminal states, my blog
Tales from the Net, a work in progress

[thoma...@prodigy.net]

done -- thanks for setting it up!

---

From: Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net>
To: GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 2:34:29 PM
Subject: [GFR-Discussion] li'l help, please!

[Lane]

I´m on it. I will send this message around. lane --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net> wrote:

From: Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net> Subject: [GFR-Discussion] li'l help, please!

[thoma...@prodigy.net]

Might this be a simple thing to send to facebook-GFR, for starters?

-- Thomas

---

From: Lane <isla...@yahoo.com>
To: GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:29:40 PM
Subject: [GFR-Discussion] Re: li'l help, please!

[Jon Pincus]

The thing is, we just sent out an update mail yesterday, so it would be bad form to do it again so quickly.

I did post it there as a posted item, but people don't seem to check those very often.

[thoma...@prodigy.net]

I think for simple requests that are short and sweet (say, 8 lines max) people might not  mind, say, weekly stuff or  even occasional "extra" stuff beyond that.  Call them "action requests", keep them short. 

This item could be as short as a 2-liner:

[[Subject: "Get FISA Right" action request]]
Vote for "Get FISA Right, repeal the PATRIOT Act and restore our civil liberties" at change.org:
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/get_fisa_right_repeal_the_patriot_act_and_restore_our_civil_liberties

...The End.  No explanation, let the reader figure it out once she gets there.  I think this is the kind of thing that we should be sending out more of -- concrete, "to do" items, even if they're just clicking on something.

Tomorrow maybe?

Meanwhile, thanks Lane!

---

From: Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net>

To: GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:34:35 PM

[Jon Pincus]

> I think for simple requests that are short and sweet (say, 8 lines max) people might not  mind, say, weekly stuff or  even occasional "extra" stuff beyond that.  Call them "action requests", keep them short.

Why do you think that? 

Our experience in July is that when we sent out frequent messages (even if they were short) people left the group.  The consensus among other Facebook organizers I've discussed this with is that unless there's something urgent, once every two weeks or so is about right.  If we want to organize successfully on Facebook, we need to defer to the cultural norms there and find something that works over there.  Frequent blast messages -- which behave badly -- aren't the way.

One thing we could do instead is try to shift people to our Page where we can send out more frequent "Updates".  These don't go into people's inbox, so they're less intrusive.  [Downside: fewer people read them.]   Not sure how well this would work but it's worth considering...

jon

[Laura Schneider]

Jon, I agree.  It approaches spamming (without the intent of being obnoxious).  I believe we will be more effective if we have a game plan with overall goals broken down to action items (tasks) that we can “check off” as we make progress.  The biggest problem with these groups is that they have trouble converting intention into positive action.

 

---

[Lane]

I agree. (Simple, short, and sweet.) Informing the group that there is something, very simple to do, to maximize their voice at this time. This is important enough information to send? I think so. Having said that, I do appreciate that people are burnt out on "politics" and, well, trouble and strife in general. At some point we might want to separate  the list in people who really only want to be notified of key moments such as this when their voice might be amplified, and people who have time for a higher level of involvement. lane  --- On Mon, 11/24/08, thoma...@prodigy.net <thoma...@prodigy.net> wrote:

[thoma...@prodigy.net]

Why do you think that?

Only because I that's how I think about it.  To me, the measure of success isn't
"number of nominal facebook supporters successfully hoarded for another day of not being contacted about concrete things to do,"
it's
"amount accomplished with the remaining facebook supporters."

2300 * 0 <<< 23 * 1 --  even if 50 people leave the group because a 2-line message was the final straw. 

Obviously, there's a tradeoff, and if this action doesn't meet that tradeoff it shouldn't happen.  But it isn't purely a matter of timing and potential group losses.

---

From: Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net>
To: GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 5:27:59 PM

Subject: [GFR-Discussion] Re: li'l help, please!

> I think for simple requests that are short and sweet (say, 8 lines max) people might not  mind, say, weekly stuff or  even occasional "extra" stuff beyond that.  Call them "action requests", keep them short.

Our experience in July is that when we sent out frequent messages (even if they were short) people left the group.  The consensus among other Facebook organizers I've discussed this with is that unless there's something urgent, once every two weeks or so is about right.  If we want to organize successfully on Facebook, we need to defer to the cultural norms there and find something that works over there.  Frequent blast messages -- which behave badly -- aren't the way.

One thing we could do instead is try to shift people to our Page where we can send out more frequent "Updates".  These don't go into people's inbox, so they're less intrusive.  [Downside: fewer people read them.]   Not sure how well this would work but it's worth considering...

jon

[Lane]

Thanks for explaining that Jon, I hadn´t looked at it like that. I know I have been deleating a lot of stuff since the election.

[Frank]

Although somewhat confusing [I'm really a newbie to much of this beyond
email] I went to change.org, registered, and commented.
Before that I did a Digg since I haven't don't Facebook or some of the
other options listed.

I see the tally is up to 50, but I have no idea how this number is derived!!

Anyway, I liked the Post on Change.org, notice of Post and then link to
so I could comment.
Also was able to set and email notification flag so when
other comments are added I should get an email.....
This seems to be a good communications model that I could support

Lane wrote:
> Thanks for explaining that Jon, I hadn´t looked at it like that. I
> know I have been deleating a lot of stuff since the election.
> lane
>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net>
>> *To:* GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 24, 2008 4:34:35 PM
>> *Subject:* [GFR-Discussion] Re: li'l help, please!

>>
>> The thing is, we just sent out an update mail yesterday, so it
>> would be bad form to do it again so quickly.
>>
>> I did post it there as a posted item, but people don't seem to
>> check those very often.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Might this be a simple thing to send to facebook-GFR, for starters?
>>>
>>> -- Thomas
>>>

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Lane <isla...@yahoo.com>
>>> *To:* GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 24, 2008 3:29:40 PM
>>> *Subject:* [GFR-Discussion] Re: li'l help, please!

>>>
>>> I´m on it. I will send this message around.
>>> lane
>>>

>>> --- On *Mon, 11/24/08, Jon Pincus /<j...@achangeiscoming.net>/*

>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Jon Pincus <j...@achangeiscoming.net>
>>> Subject: [GFR-Discussion] li'l help, please!
>>> To: GetFISArigh...@googlegroups.com
>>> Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 11:34 AM
>>>
>>> techPresident's Daily Digest today had a story about how

>>> Change.org <http://change.org/> is partnering with MySpace

>>> and a bunch of other interesting groups to build campaigns
>>> around whatever comes out from their top ten ideas.
>>> Interesting ...
>>>
>>> "Get FISA Right, repeal the PATRIOT Act, and restore our
>>> civil liberties" is at 39 votes, not too far from the top 10
>>> (which would take 48 I think). i'm pretty sure it's the #1
>>> civil liberties idea (with a PATRIOT-act only idea in
>>> second). so if a reasonable percentage of the people on
>>> this mailing list act, we could shoot to #1 -- which would
>>> be a great opportunity to remind people "we're still around!"
>>>
>>> so when you have a moment, please vote it up.
>>>
>>> http://www.change.org/ideas/view/get_fisa_right_repeal_the_patriot_act_and_restore_our_civil_liberties
>>>
>>> thanks!
>>>
>>> jon
>>>
>>> --

>>> liminal states <http://talesfromthe.net/jon>, my blog
>>> Tales from the Net <http://talesfromthe.net/>, a work in
>>> progress
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> liminal states <http://talesfromthe.net/jon>, my blog
>> Tales from the Net <http://talesfromthe.net/>, a work in progress
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> liminal states <http://talesfromthe.net/jon>, my blog
> Tales from the Net <http://talesfromthe.net/>, a work in progress
>
>
> >

[Jon Pincus]

Thanks all, we cracked the top 10!  I'm pretty sure that 50 (our current score) is the number of people who have voted for it.  I did a little research on how the top 10 will get decided, and described it at http://www.talesfromthe.net/jon/?p=288

[By the way we are currently slightly ahead of an idea by Craig Newmark of Craigslist fame :-)]

Change.org's system does have a nice feel to it, although I really wish they had "preview" for their comments.  The "email notification flag" can be really helpful if you want to follow a thread via email (our wiki and the message board both have that as well).  It's a decent-size community there and so it is certainy a promising place to do activism.

jon

[Jon Pincus]

In general I think any group that makes a habit of annoying its supporters has a hard time remaining sustainable.   We have to be approaching this for the long haul ... and we have to show respect for our members by not spamming them.  

My measure of success on Facebook over the next year is "amount accomplished by current and future Facbook members and their networks".   Every single one of the people in the group has helped us accomplish something so far and presumably will in the future, if we ask them to help with something they think is valuable (and ask in the right way).  Alienating 50 of them here, 50 of them there, isn't any way to move forward.

jon

[Lane]

I have a facebook account but don´t know what to do with it. --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Frank <plo...@att.net> wrote: