[nl] "Go" in admin used for "search" and "execute"
TiNo
My name is Tino de Bruijn. I am a young developer from The
Netherlands.
I noticed that in the admin's changelist the English word "Go" is used
both after the search box, and after the admin actions drop-down box.
While in English this works semantically, it doesn't in Dutch, as it
now displays "Zoek" (=search) after the actions...
Two solutions:
1) Change the Dutch translation into "Ga" (= literally "Go") (so that
would also be displayed after the search-box)
2) Change the template to display the English word "Search" after the
search-box.
IMHO, 2) is the correct way, as the search-box label doesn't say
"search:", it only displays and magnifying glass. So a submit button
with the text "Search" would be more verbose. And it also allows for
different translations.
Any opinions?
TiNo
Ludvig Ericson
> Two solutions:
> 1) Change the Dutch translation into "Ga" (= literally "Go") (so that
> would also be displayed after the search-box)
> 2) Change the template to display the English word "Search" after the
> search-box.
Long-term, I'd say this kind of issue is one that requires changing
the original string.
However, I doubt it'll be worth breaking all the translations in a
fairly obvious place at this time (just pre-1.1), so for now, you
should probably opt in to make it natural in Dutch in both cases.
I don't know Dutch, so I don't know, but surely, you have a generic
"run this" verb? Swedish does ("kör", or "drive", "körbar" is
"executable" or "drivable"), and we're both Proto-Germanic
languages. :-)
- Ludvig
Arien
>
> On Apr 1, 2009, at 12:25, TiNo wrote:
>> Two solutions:
>> 1) Change the Dutch translation into "Ga" (= literally "Go") (so that
>> would also be displayed after the search-box)
>> 2) Change the template to display the English word "Search" after the
>> search-box.
>
> Long-term, I'd say this kind of issue is one that requires changing
> the original string.
Another solution would be using context in translations. If I
understand correctly, this is an item on Malcolm's list for 1.2.
> However, I doubt it'll be worth breaking all the translations in a
> fairly obvious place at this time (just pre-1.1), so for now, you
> should probably opt in to make it natural in Dutch in both cases.
>
> I don't know Dutch, so I don't know, but surely, you have a generic
> "run this" verb? Swedish does ("kör", or "drive", "körbar" is
> "executable" or "drivable"), and we're both Proto-Germanic
> languages. :-)
The "-bar" suffix works the same way in Dutch and German here:
"uitvoeren" ("execute") -> "uitvoerbaar" ("executable"), and
"ausführen" ("execute") -> "ausführbar" ("executable").
Using the same translation for both instances of "go" doesn't really
work in Dutch. There are a couple of options that come to mind, but
they aren't that great: "ga" ("go"), "voer uit" ("execute"), "doe"
("do").
Another issue is that in Dutch you wouldn't use the imperative in
cases like this one, you'd use the inifinitive ("gaan", "uitvoeren",
"doen" instead of "ga" "voer uit", "doe"). Same goes for German.
Isn't that how it works in Swedish as well?
Arien
Ludvig Ericson
> The "-bar" suffix works the same way in Dutch and German here:
> "uitvoeren" ("execute") -> "uitvoerbaar" ("executable"), and
> "ausführen" ("execute") -> "ausführbar" ("executable").
Probably a morpheme from higher up in the Germanic family tree then.
> Another issue is that in Dutch you wouldn't use the imperative in
> cases like this one, you'd use the infinitive ("gaan", "uitvoeren",
> "doen" instead of "ga" "voer uit", "doe"). Same goes for German.
> Isn't that how it works in Swedish as well?
Swedish does what English does when labeling buttons like that.
The infinitive by itself will make people think of the act itself, and
so could fit nicely into menus, but not when the text is indicating
that it is what you'll be doing if you click it. Then we use the
imperative (which sometimes is a distinct word.)
- Ludvig
Ramiro Morales
<ludvig....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 1, 2009, at 12:25, TiNo wrote:
>> Two solutions:
>> 1) Change the Dutch translation into "Ga" (= literally "Go") (so that
>> would also be displayed after the search-box)
>> 2) Change the template to display the English word "Search" after the
>> search-box.
>
> Long-term, I'd say this kind of issue is one that requires changing
> the original string.
>
> However, I doubt it'll be worth breaking all the translations in a
> fairly obvious place at this time (just pre-1.1), so for now, you
> should probably opt in to make it natural in Dutch in both cases.
>
I've started to play with the new actions stuff from trunk in just now and
found that in Spanish we have the same problem.
Until now the msgstr used for the "Go" msgid wasn't the exact
Argentinian Spanish equivalent but "Buscar" ("Search") because the only
occurrence of the English word was in the button of the search box and
because, in Spanish, it describes better the action the user would get by
pressing it.
But now, with "Go" being also used on the actions block, this scheme
breaks as TiNo described above.
IMHO TiNo proposal 2 would be the best option because it would allow
translators to languages where better choices exist to describe and
differentiate the two different verbs to make use of them. This until we get
context-annotated translations in 1.2.
RC is delayed and string freeze isn't in effect yet so now (the stabilizing
period between the implementation of the [actions] feature and string freeze)
is the right time to make this kind of translatable literal changes.
What are translators to other languages opinion? Are you seeing the same
problem as we do in Dutch and Spanish?.
Regards,
--
Ramiro Morales
http://rmorales.net
Malcolm Tredinnick
That sounds reasonable to me. It doesn't seem to degrade the natural
English version. "Go" always strikes me as a bit of an American
colloquial approach to the UI, rather than a more specific action word
there. It's common, but I'm not actually *going* anywhere when I hit the
button; I'm waiting right here until the results come back!
Regards,
Malcolm
Jannis Leidel
Actually, we use "Los" in the German translation (also for the search
button), which translates more or less to "Go!" or "Let's go!".
I've been wondering what label to use when I created that submit
button for the admin actions and I'm sorry it created so much
confusion. Couldn't we fix that before 1.1, technically there wasn't a
string freeze and it really seems like a bug to me?
Best,
Jannis
Malcolm Tredinnick
[...]
> I've been wondering what label to use when I created that submit
> button for the admin actions and I'm sorry it created so much
> confusion. Couldn't we fix that before 1.1, technically there wasn't a
> string freeze and it really seems like a bug to me?
Yes, there's absolutely no reason not to fix it. We're not in string
freeze, so it's not even difficult.
Somebody create an appropriate patch, open a ticket, reference this
thread for the justification (lest some enthusiastic triager nukes it
without understanding why), make sure it's on the 1.1 milestone and I'll
commit it when I have a chance.
Regards,
Malcolm
Ramiro Morales
<mal...@pointy-stick.com> wrote:
>
> Somebody create an appropriate patch, open a ticket, reference this
> thread for the justification (lest some enthusiastic triager nukes it
> without understanding why), make sure it's on the 1.1 milestone and I'll
> commit it when I have a chance.
For those not following django-updates or the Trac timeline: I've opened
[1]#10959.
Feel free to enhance the 'Search' and 'Execute' literal if you think
they are not right.
Thanks.
--
Ramiro Morales
http://rmorales.net
Ramiro Morales
>
> For those not following django-updates or the Trac timeline: I've opened
> [1]#10959.
>
> Feel free to enhance the 'Search' and 'Execute' literal if you think
> they are not right.
>
FYI
Russell Keith-Magee has just committed a fix for this in [1]rev 10678.
Regards,
--
Ramiro Morales
http://rmorales.net