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From: William Saturno <wsatu...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0400
Message-ID: <CAFXy9987Lss1TxtR3iBMFZf56_gMM+MfwNrdRyu=WDA1JVM...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Interesting email from Bre Pettis
To: cthackerspace@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3020788aec45d904ca63f5bc
--20cf3020788aec45d904ca63f5bc
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
For those following the current replicator / thingverse controversy, this
may be of interest.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bre pettis <brepet...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Idea: things.hackerspaces.org now that
Thingiverse is not ok anymore
To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List <disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org>
Hey folks, having started NYCResistor, I'm on this list too!
The terms are not bad, they are just written by a lawyer. I'm working
with the lawyers to make them much more readable so folks don't freak
out anymore than they already have.
Our goal with upgrading the terms is to protect the system that we're
so proud of. Seriously, sorry for the lawyer speak, we're working on
it because we care about our users.
Bre
MakerBot Industries
http://makerbot.com
Video - Time Magazine Game Changer: http://ti.me/nGtIrJ
Print - NYTimes: http://nyti.ms/oKITfc
NOTICE: This email may contain information that is confidential or
attorney-client privileged and may constitute inside information. The
contents of this email are intended only for the recipient(s) listed above.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are directed not to read,
disclose, distribute or otherwise use this transmission. If you have
received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete the transmission. Delivery of this message is not intended to waive
any applicable privileges.
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Daniel Harmsworth
<atro...@caffeinator.net> wrote:
> There's a member at the Artifactory that has build a CouchDB based
> distributed thingiverse-like system with distributed rendering, gcode
> simulation and other cool stuff (basically for his own internal use), In
> light of recent developments I have suggested that we install a publicly
> accessible version of it on the Artifactory servers. Will report back when
> we have it up for experimentation, there is a fairly limited UI at the
> moment.
>
>
> On 24 September 2012 00:35, Walter van Holst <wal...@revspace.nl> wrote:
>>
>> On 2012-09-23 18:01, Sparr wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone gotten an actual lawyer's opinion of the new TOS?
>>
>>
>> As mentioned in my blog post, I am a lawyer. Not an attorney, mind you
and
>> not practicing in the USA either.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I do not
>>> see that the new language is significantly different from the old
>>> language. The new TOS doesn't say they can use your designs to make
>>> new closed source hardware, they are still only allowed to use it to
>>> display it on their website.
>>
>>
>> No, it literally talks about "incorporate into other works, and otherwise
>> use your User Content", per section 3.2 of the Terms of Use. As already
>> quoted in my blog post. You could argue that the last bit of that
sentence
>> "solely for the purposes of including your User Content in the Site and
>> Services" applies further than the sublicensing bit, but to me it reads
>> rather ambiguously and I wouldn't feel safe to say it applies any further
>> than the grant to sublicense. Not to say that the old terms weren't
>> ambiguous either, but since they limited themselves to derivative works,
it
>> made life much easier because that is specifically a copyright term. On
top
>> of that the assertion about transmission and display in the old version
read
>> much broader.
>>
>> And yes, natural languages are a pain, ambiguity-wise. But we have to
make
>> do with them.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org
>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Harmsworth
> Chairman, The Perth Artifactory Inc.
> http://www.artifactory.org.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org
http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--20cf3020788aec45d904ca63f5bc
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those following the current replicator / thingverse=A0controversy, this=
may be of interest.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded=
message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">bre pettis</b> <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:brepet...@gmail.com">brepettis@gmail=
.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 1:04 PM<br>Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Idea: <a =
href=3D"http://things.hackerspaces.org">things.hackerspaces.org</a> now tha=
t Thingiverse is not ok anymore<br>To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List=
<<a href=3D"mailto:disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org">disc...@lists.hacker=
spaces.org</a>><br>
<br><br>Hey folks, having started NYCResistor, I'm on this list too!<br=
>
<br>
The terms are not bad, they are just written by a lawyer. I'm working<b=
r>
with the lawyers to make them much more readable so folks don't freak<b=
r>
out anymore than they already have.<br>
<br>
Our goal with upgrading the terms is to protect the system that we're<b=
r>
so proud of. Seriously, sorry for the lawyer speak, we're working on<br=
>
it because we care about our users.<br>
<br>
Bre<br>
<br>
MakerBot Industries<br>
<a href=3D"http://makerbot.com" target=3D"_blank">http://makerbot.com</a><b=
r>
Video - Time Magazine Game Changer: <a href=3D"http://ti.me/nGtIrJ" target=
=3D"_blank">http://ti.me/nGtIrJ</a><br>
Print - NYTimes: <a href=3D"http://nyti.ms/oKITfc" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/nyti.ms/oKITfc</a><br>
<br>
NOTICE: This email may contain information that is confidential or<br>
attorney-client privileged and may constitute inside information. The<br>
contents of this email are intended only for the recipient(s) listed above.=
<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, you are directed not to read,<br>
disclose, distribute or otherwise use this transmission. If you have<br>
received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and<br>
delete the transmission. Delivery of this message is not intended to waive<=
br>
any applicable privileges.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Daniel Harmsworth<br>
<<a href=3D"mailto:atro...@caffeinator.net">atro...@caffeinator.net</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br>
> There's a member at the Artifactory that has build a CouchDB based=
<br>
> distributed thingiverse-like system with distributed rendering, gcode<=
br>
> simulation and other cool stuff (basically for his own internal use), =
In<br>
> light of recent developments I have suggested that we install a public=
ly<br>
> accessible version of it on the Artifactory servers. Will report back =
when<br>
> we have it up for experimentation, there is a fairly limited UI at the=
<br>
> moment.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 24 September 2012 00:35, Walter van Holst <<a href=3D"mailto:wal=
t...@revspace.nl">wal...@revspace.nl</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On 2012-09-23 18:01, Sparr wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Has anyone gotten an actual lawyer's opinion of the new TO=
S?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> As mentioned in my blog post, I am a lawyer. Not an attorney, mind=
you and<br>
>> not practicing in the USA either.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> I do not<br>
>>> see that the new language is significantly different from the =
old<br>
>>> language. The new TOS doesn't say they can use your design=
s to make<br>
>>> new closed source hardware, they are still only allowed to use=
it to<br>
>>> display it on their website.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> No, it literally talks about "incorporate into other works, a=
nd otherwise<br>
>> use your User Content", per section 3.2 of the Terms of Use. =
As already<br>
>> quoted in my blog post. You could argue that the last bit of that =
sentence<br>
>> "solely for the purposes of including your User Content in th=
e Site and<br>
>> Services" applies further than the sublicensing bit, but to m=
e it reads<br>
>> rather ambiguously and I wouldn't feel safe to say it applies =
any further<br>
>> than the grant to sublicense. Not to say that the old terms weren&=
#39;t<br>
>> ambiguous either, but since they limited themselves to derivative =
works, it<br>
>> made life much easier because that is specifically a copyright ter=
m. On top<br>
>> of that the assertion about transmission and display in the old ve=
rsion read<br>
>> much broader.<br>
>><br>
>> And yes, natural languages are a pain, ambiguity-wise. But we have=
to make<br>
>> do with them.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> =A0Walter<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:Disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org">Disc...@lists.ha=
ckerspaces.org</a><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"=
target=3D"_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</=
a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Daniel Harmsworth<br>
> Chairman, The Perth Artifactory Inc.<br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.artifactory.org.au" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.artifactory.org.au</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org">Disc...@lists.hacker=
spaces.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><b=
r>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Disc...@lists.hackerspaces.org">Disc...@lists.hackerspace=
s.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</div><br>
--20cf3020788aec45d904ca63f5bc--
Message from discussion Interesting email from Bre Pettis
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