The Delhi Police on Friday issued orders to all cyber cafe owners to ask for photo identity cards from the users. The cyber cafe owners have also been asked to maintain a register for entry and exit of each and every cafe user.
The assumption here is that some terrorist would go to a cybercafe, log-in at 10 bucks an hour and type sweetnothings to another terrorist. "I loved the 10 roses you sent me on Thursday, we may need more."
Although I disagree with big-brother like attitude, such techniques exist all over the world. When you use a credit card to pay at a cybercafe in say the US or UK, you actually leave a trail. Even if you pay by cash, the camera is watching you. So people know at any given point of time the origin of the communication and a handful of probables who could have transmitted such communication.
I am ambivalent about this. Am I willing to go through the trouble of security checks at airports and checks at cybercafes? I might. Although it is very much debatable.
Why is this a problem. Vigilance in cyber cafes, railway stations and wherever possible isn't bad in my opinion. Photo identification has started in cinema halls in a city (can't recall which) where snaps of people are taken and entered on their tickets.
On 7/21/06, Amit Agarwal <a.p.agar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Delhi Police on Friday issued orders to all cyber cafe owners to ask > for photo identity cards from the users. The cyber cafe owners have also > been asked to maintain a register for entry and exit of each and every cafe > user.
Small clarification - The photo identificationin cinema halls thingy was from a report I saw on a news channel a few months back and is not related to the Mumbai blasts.
On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why is this a problem. Vigilance in cyber cafes, railway stations and > wherever possible isn't bad in my opinion. Photo identification has started > in cinema halls in a city (can't recall which) where snaps of people are > taken and entered on their tickets.
> On 7/21/06, Amit Agarwal <a.p.agar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Delhi Police on Friday issued orders to all cyber cafe owners to ask > > for photo identity cards from the users. The cyber cafe owners have also > > been asked to maintain a register for entry and exit of each and every cafe > > user.
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why is this a problem.
Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
Is photo identification bad? They are not swindling me of anything or depriving me of anything.
They are just keeping records. Surely, such records might not be useful in any way to the agencies. But, I don't see why it would create fear amongst ppl?
Cheers, HP
On 7/21/06, Patrix M <patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why is this a problem.
> Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
1. Who entered the cybercafe 2. Was sitting on which computer 3. Was there for how long.
What it does - is ensure that as a person you have no privacy left. We're so used to having our privacy invaded by the government - that we think nothing of it. As long as it doesn't harm me - is it?
The loss of privacy is real, grave and very obvious. What's next - you have to register all your email ids with the government? (Block access to all unregulated email providers - and access to only those that require proper identification - ).
On 7/21/06, Hariprasad Poojary <hariprasad.pooj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is photo identification bad? They are not swindling me of anything or > depriving me of anything.
> They are just keeping records. Surely, such records might not be useful in > any way to the agencies. But, I don't see why it would create fear amongst > ppl?
> Cheers, > HP
> On 7/21/06, Patrix M <patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Why is this a problem.
> > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government.
You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
.You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in at, by the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten you, he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij option and just give him my email id or phone number.
I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
Cheers.
On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why is this a problem.
> Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
> 1. Who entered the cybercafe > 2. Was sitting on which computer > 3. Was there for how long.
> What it does - is ensure that as a person you have no privacy left. > We're so used to having our privacy invaded by the government - that we > think nothing of it. As long as it doesn't harm me - is it?
> The loss of privacy is real, grave and very obvious. > What's next - you have to register all your email ids with the government? > (Block access to all unregulated email providers - and access to only those > that require proper identification - ).
> On 7/21/06, Hariprasad Poojary <hariprasad.pooj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is photo identification bad? They are not swindling me of anything or > > depriving me of anything.
> > They are just keeping records. Surely, such records might not be useful > > in any way to the agencies. But, I don't see why it would create fear > > amongst ppl?
> > Cheers, > > HP
> > On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Why is this a problem.
> > > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I hate the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the record - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as intrusive. I prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and buying most things with cash. I destroy bills.
But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We can opt to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with our identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the risk.
Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments require me to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber cafes themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an individuals - I can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's arule everywhere - then what do I do?
On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the > eyes of the government.
> You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in at, by > the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten you, > he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij option > and just give him my email id or phone number.
> I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> Cheers.
> On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Why is this a problem.
> > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
I think a case can be made for surveilance as in security checks at airports, banks, traffic intersections, gatherings, public transportation etc. Like it or not, governments can track your activity at a library today: the books you borrow, videos you watch are all logged.
Now, can anyone track how long you were at a cybercafe? Absolutely, it happens today all over in the western world. Should they be doing that? Debatable. If some kind of surveilance were not in place, we may not even be in a position to have cybercafes a decade from now.
One thing is for sure, people in free and civil societies are at war with a mindset and not just with a bunch of people out to destroy them. Under such circumstances, every single liberty we have taken for granted will be under the microscope for exploitation by terrorists. It is unfortunate but that is the new reality.
> Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I hate > the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the record > - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as intrusive. I > prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and buying most > things with cash. I destroy bills.
> But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We can opt > to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with our > identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the risk.
> Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments require me > to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
> Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber cafes > themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an individuals - I > can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's arule everywhere - > then what do I do?
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the > eyes of the government.
> You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in at, by > the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten you, > he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij option > and just give him my email id or phone number.
> I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> Cheers.
> On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Why is this a problem.
> > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
> You do have the option of surfing from your home.
> On 7/21/06, Neha Viswanathan <nehav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I hate > > the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the record > > - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as intrusive. I > > prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and buying most > > things with cash. I destroy bills.
> > But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We can > > opt to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with our > > identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the risk.
> > Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments require > > me to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
> > Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber > > cafes themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an > > individuals - I can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's > > arule everywhere - then what do I do?
> > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the > > eyes of the government.
> > You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> > .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in at, > > by the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten > > you, he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij > > option and just give him my email id or phone number.
> > I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> > Cheers.
> > On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Why is this a problem.
> > > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You do have the option of surfing from your home.
> > On 7/21/06, Neha Viswanathan < nehav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I > > > hate the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the > > > record - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as > > > intrusive. I prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and > > > buying most things with cash. I destroy bills.
> > > But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We can > > > opt to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with our > > > identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the risk.
> > > Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments require > > > me to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
> > > Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber > > > cafes themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an > > > individuals - I can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's > > > arule everywhere - then what do I do?
> > > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in > > > the eyes of the government.
> > > You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> > > .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in > > > at, by the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten > > > you, he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij > > > option and just give him my email id or phone number.
> > > I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> > > Cheers.
> > > On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
Like I said - It's about letting individual cafes being able to decide for themselves. It cuts down on my "real" options. What if I am travelling.
Suppose I am running away from an abusive spouse - Do you think my abusive spouse should be able to track me down by checking records somewhere? (Please don't tell me that if I was running away - I shouldn't be wanting to check mail - Nobody should be judging what service I want to use.) (I used to work at a shelter for abused people - and trust me - because of the government - they end up being unable to maintain privacy,)
Why don't we have a rule about showing IDs everytime we make international and local calls from outside the house. How about showing IDs everytime we buy petrol - so the government can keep a track of where you are? Or everytime you board an intercity train? (You always have the option of walking - or staying home.)
On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You do have the option of surfing from your home.
> > On 7/21/06, Neha Viswanathan < nehav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I > > > hate the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the > > > record - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as > > > intrusive. I prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and > > > buying most things with cash. I destroy bills.
> > > But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We can > > > opt to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with our > > > identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the risk.
> > > Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments require > > > me to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
> > > Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber > > > cafes themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an > > > individuals - I can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's > > > arule everywhere - then what do I do?
> > > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in > > > the eyes of the government.
> > > You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> > > .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in > > > at, by the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten > > > you, he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij > > > option and just give him my email id or phone number.
> > > I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> > > Cheers.
> > > On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
<hariprasad> They are just keeping records. Surely, such records might not be useful in any way to the agencies. But, I don't see why it would create fear amongst ppl? </hariprasad>
----> Hari Prasad, think about it. 10 years from now, one fine morning, you wake up to find that the Indian Government ceases to exist. The military takes over and starts rounding up people based on religious affiliation or party loyalty. Some may even go as far as figuring out who was reading subversite texts from the west. In Iran, people read Shakespeare in closed rooms even today because the leaders are pissed off at the subversive nature of the texts.
Let us say, Taliban takes over Delhi: pretty soon, you can kiss your occupation good bye. You will be asked to pay Jizya and wear an arm band based on an SQL query that returns a list of all undesirable people who don't subscribe to Taliban.
> <hariprasad> > They are just keeping records. Surely, such records might not be useful > in > any way to the agencies. But, I don't see why it would create fear > amongst > ppl? > </hariprasad>
> ----> Hari Prasad, think about it. 10 years from now, one fine morning, > you wake up to find that the Indian Government ceases to exist. The > military takes over and starts rounding up people based on religious > affiliation or party loyalty. Some may even go as far as figuring out > who was reading subversite texts from the west. In Iran, people read > Shakespeare in closed rooms even today because the leaders are pissed > off at the subversive nature of the texts.
> Let us say, Taliban takes over Delhi: pretty soon, you can kiss your > occupation good bye. You will be asked to pay Jizya and wear an arm > band based on an SQL query that returns a list of all undesirable > people who don't subscribe to Taliban.
The idea of credit cards etc. is a poor analogy - it is not meant to be a parallel - but merely an example. An instance. Not every example can be taken as a literal analogy.
Once you come out of the house - do you then become public property - as long as you don't impinge on another's rights - why should the state be clamping down on yours?
On 7/21/06, Hariprasad Poojary <hariprasad.pooj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Shifting my positions, then I have the option of accessing these blogs > using other means??
> Cheers, > HP
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > or office..
> > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You do have the option of surfing from your home.
> > > On 7/21/06, Neha Viswanathan < nehav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I > > > > hate the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the > > > > record - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as > > > > intrusive. I prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and > > > > buying most things with cash. I destroy bills.
> > > > But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We > > > > can opt to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with > > > > our identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the > > > > risk.
> > > > Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments > > > > require me to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
> > > > Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber > > > > cafes themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an > > > > individuals - I can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's > > > > arule everywhere - then what do I do?
> > > > > makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in > > > > the eyes of the government.
> > > > You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> > > > .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in > > > > at, by the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten > > > > you, he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij > > > > option and just give him my email id or phone number.
> > > > I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> > > > Cheers.
> > > > On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone > > > > > including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the > > > > > government. More importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your > > > > > activities. Tomorrow, you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a > > > > > certain book, watch a certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want > > > > > to live someplace where I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
> <hariprasad> > They are just keeping records. Surely, such records might not be useful > in > any way to the agencies. But, I don't see why it would create fear > amongst > ppl? > </hariprasad>
> ----> Hari Prasad, think about it. 10 years from now, one fine morning, > you wake up to find that the Indian Government ceases to exist. The > military takes over and starts rounding up people based on religious > affiliation or party loyalty. Some may even go as far as figuring out > who was reading subversite texts from the west. In Iran, people read > Shakespeare in closed rooms even today because the leaders are pissed > off at the subversive nature of the texts.
> Let us say, Taliban takes over Delhi: pretty soon, you can kiss your > occupation good bye. You will be asked to pay Jizya and wear an arm > band based on an SQL query that returns a list of all undesirable > people who don't subscribe to Taliban.
Keeping track of every thing would make it a police state more than a state just performing it's basic duties. Security is part of that duty of a government in my opinion. A government can track a person in a home or office via ips if I am not wrong if they find some terrorist information passed on.
Can they find out who that person was if it was from a cyber cafe? Also, wouldn't that make a terrorist more likely to use a cyber cafe than a place where he resides.
That is my concern. When a criminal is on the loose, you do see vehicles stopped in a given area. This is not that different in my opinion.
In this, a wife running from her husband or a person not wanting people to keep track of them may indeed have to pay a price sadly.
On 7/21/06, Neha Viswanathan <nehav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Like I said - It's about letting individual cafes being able to decide for > themselves. > It cuts down on my "real" options. What if I am travelling.
> Suppose I am running away from an abusive spouse - Do you think my abusive > spouse should be able to track me down by checking records somewhere? > (Please don't tell me that if I was running away - I shouldn't be wanting to > check mail - Nobody should be judging what service I want to use.) (I used > to work at a shelter for abused people - and trust me - because of the > government - they end up being unable to maintain privacy,)
> Why don't we have a rule about showing IDs everytime we make international > and local calls from outside the house. How about showing IDs everytime we > buy petrol - so the government can keep a track of where you are? Or > everytime you board an intercity train? (You always have the option of > walking - or staying home.)
> On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan <pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > or office..
> > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You do have the option of surfing from your home.
> > On 7/21/06, Neha Viswanathan < nehav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually Pratyush - I personally don't use a credit card because I > > > hate the idea that my buying habits are being recorded somewhere. For the > > > record - using a debit card is a better option many times - though as > > > intrusive. I prefer taking my cash out from one particular ATM (or two) and > > > buying most things with cash. I destroy bills.
> > > But you see - for the paranoid like me there exists the choice. We can > > > opt to use the credit card - but we CHOOSE to make that compromise with our > > > identity information - for convenience. As an individual - I take the risk.
> > > Sometimes I don't have a choice - which is why online payments require > > > me to compromise everytime - but that's my decision.
> > > Where is that choice in using the internet in cyber cafes. The cyber > > > cafes themselves deciding that they need IDs would mean that as an > > > individuals - I can make that choice - to patronize or not - but if it's > > > arule everywhere - then what do I do?
> > > On 7/21/06, Pratyush Khaitan < pratyushkhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > makes everyone including innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in > > > the eyes of the government.
> > > You have to put your photo in your passport, in your credit card.
> > > .You leave a track every where whether it is the hotel you check in > > > at, by the rent bills you pay and what not. So if some one needs to threaten > > > you, he could do it any way in this world. I would follow the Shivam Vij > > > option and just give him my email id or phone number.
> > > I don't see a big issue with this. We disagree..
> > > Cheers.
> > > On 7/21/06, Patrix M < patrixbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Because it creates an atmosphere of fear...makes everyone including > > > > innocent law-abiding citizens suspects in the eyes of the government. More > > > > importantly, it sets a precedent for monitoring your activities. Tomorrow, > > > > you may be threatened just because you chose to buy a certain book, watch a > > > > certain movie, or blog a certain topic. I don't want to live someplace where > > > > I can always sense eyes boring the back of my head.
I am a pragmatist. I don't have utopian dreams. In the example that I provided, the terrorists become the state. At such a time, it is a moot point really.
Is there a guarantee the state won't terrorize us by their acts today? No. But hypothetically speaking, I believe India will be a democracy at least for another 10 years even if the terrorists were to take over.
As long as we subscribe to democracy, I think we will not be terrorized and there will be a distinction between a security measure, surveillance and a terrorist act.
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