Future BTIP topic
Shawn Adams
All,
I'd like to suggest a concerted (series perhaps ?) of videos,
discussions, and potential actions regarding "licensing, Lawyers, and Linux"
the opensource/sahreware/freeware/tyrannical influence of lawyers,
politicians, and over-greedy technology CEOs is really getting to me
lately. Oddly enough, despite all the money these criminals are making
on SW licensing issues - apparently none of them can actually explain
clearly what is legal, and what is illegal where, or when.
But for an additional 400 EUR per hour they'd be glad to take the matter
under advisement.
We've left the gates open, and the barbarians are streaming into the city...
15 years ago, such people could not even spell "Internet", now they're
taking over, probably mostly due to our own inactivity.
Lately, Linux distros have begun a frantic move to remove any and all
potentially problematic code (example - WMV codecs, adobe, etc...) from
their distros.
http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats
The US politicians have punished Internet Radio senders by dictating
they must pay higher music royalties than traditional AM/FM radio
senders. (now we know who paid more bribe money).
http://musicians.about.com/od/resources/a/live365question.htm
This is really getting out of hand, not suggesting we can solve this,
but perhaps there are ideas that can be shared to help the open-source
(read: still capable of thinking, not following the naked emperor) crowd
assist open-source to flourish, despite the current attacks of non-tech
serpents into the tech world.
For me, this is 1967 again, it's time for the spirit of free speech and
action to take flight again.
???
--
Shawn Adams
shawn...@web.de
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john_re
> I'd like to suggest a concerted (series perhaps ?) of videos,
> discussions, and potential actions regarding "licensing, Lawyers, and
> Linux"
Sounds like a good & useful idea. I'd be glad to try to arrange a speaker(s)/panel, etc, if the list members can produce some useful suggestions. see below.
>
> the opensource/sahreware/freeware/tyrannical influence of lawyers,
> politicians, and over-greedy technology CEOs is really getting to me
... snip interesting stuff
> Lately, Linux distros have begun a frantic move to remove any and all
> potentially problematic code (example - WMV codecs, adobe, etc...) from
> their distros.
> http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats
>
>
> The US politicians have punished Internet Radio senders by dictating
> they must pay higher music royalties than traditional AM/FM radio
> senders. (now we know who paid more bribe money).
>
> http://musicians.about.com/od/resources/a/live365question.htm
>
> This is really getting out of hand, not suggesting we can solve this,
"This" = specifically what? what do you wish a solution to?
> but perhaps there are ideas that can be shared to help the open-source
> (read: still capable of thinking, not following the naked emperor) crowd
> assist open-source to flourish, despite the current attacks of non-tech
> serpents into the tech world.
1) Open source vs Freedom - there's one discussion to be had.
2) RMS has some thoughts about supporting musicians & artists. Talked about that ~1.5-2yrs ago at ucb. i missed his talk last month - only got there for the q & q.
At the end of that, rms & a few others went out to dinner, & one lady who was there I thought might be Prof Samuleson, of the ucb law school, is a specialist in free culture. But, i'm not sure that was her there. but if it was, then, since rms was glad to see her (she & he had arranged she'd be there), then we can assume he endorses her ideas, & she's a local resource to see if we can get her to come give a talk.
[pls excuse my rambling writing, late & I'm tired, but wanted to get this reply out.]
Would creative commons lawyer founder larry lessig be relevant? EFF people? others?
3) "This": specify, so we here on the list can know what specific issues to get a speaker for.
>
> For me, this is 1967 again, it's time for the spirit of free speech and
> action to take flight again.
Tell me what you'd like to discuss re free speech, & "L L L" as you said above.
PS: I was just at the 45th reunion of the Free speech sit in at Sproul Hall about 3 weeks ago. Met some of the original people. :)
Shawn Adams
John,
I'd like to see the technical still-capable-of-intelligent-thought crowd
get together, discuss, and come up with at least 3 concrete, actionable
ideas on how we can achieve the following goals. We'd use your power of
advertisement and influence to distribute the info to the masses via
whatever means open to us.
The idea is to mobilize volumes of thinking people to accomplish our goals.
RANT ON
I think of the time I stood on the proported green at Lexington, MA, and
looked down the road where the British Army marched in to seize weapons.
I think of the brave farmers, fathers, husbands, who defiantly raised
their hunting muskets against the most powerful, and efficient army in
the world, and said "no !"
We can only imagine the thoughts racing through the minds in those
minutes. Fortunately for us, our founding fathers found the courage to
stand for what they believed right, and fire - knowing that they would
very likely die - that they would leave their families fatherless, their
wives as destitute widows - but they fired just the same - to achieve
freedom - a better future for their families - and us.
(and yes, for the wealthy Bostonian merchants as well)
Is it too much to ask us to give up a bit of comfort - stop watching WMA
codec videos, stop taking the "naked emperor" road - the easy automatic
way out - but work a bit harder to make some bit of technology work as
we'd like ?
RANT OFF
Goals:
#1 Free up open-source to be a technology and economy motor, instead of
using licenses to ensure the cash ends up in the same limited number of
pockets (reduce the legal fear that is being used to suppress creative
products and thinking)
#2 Increase creative thinking in technology - are we really accepting
that the "status quo" is as good as it gets ?
(wait while I recover from another blue screen)
#3 Free young developers to create, instead of worry about legal clauses
- circles around to item #1 above
Tasks:
#1 reduce political influence on technology
example ideas:
Team up with Ralph Nader to pass laws limiting US Congress ability to
levy taxes on technology - includes other countries who are taxing
Internet media.
Write (bombard) our elected officials to protest unfair laws such as the
Internet Radio arrangement
Elect technologists to political offices
de-elect politicians who support closed-monopoly thinking
#2 boycott closed-source products, in favor of open-source
technological groups informing memberships about intelligent application
of technology
stop using proprietary code, such as audio and video codecs
Stop purchasing PCs with pre-loaded OSs with the price buried in.
#3 support organizations and companies who are using and applying
open-source
open office
etc....
Your suggests below are excellent, I'd personally love to hear the likes of:
RMS - whoever that is, must be somebody famous, like footballers from
Brazil that are famous enough to only have one name.
Larry Lessig - would be indeed a pleasure to hear his thoughts
Any legal eagles who can help clarify the fog of software licencing.
One item that is fresh in my mind - is using WMA codecs from my
perfectly legal windoze PC on my linux PC to play WMA video legal ?
or must I somehow pay for the right to use the same codec twice ?
If everyone started using open source codecs:
a) eliminate the need for closed-source licensed codecs
b) remove motivation for companies and lawyers to waste time wrangling
about how to punish dissidents who refuse to pay the "naked emperor".
The discussions would have to have a concrete agenda, plan, goals, and
would have to result in concrete, actionable and feasible steps.
Hope this is somewhat clear.
Best regards,
--
Shawn Adams
shawn...@web.de
Hike Danakian
open-souce, but not free software (that is, they offer the source code
for you to look at, but you are not allowed to modify, redistribute,
etc).
Regarding your goals, it is an interesting issue that some developers
find that the GPL is too restrictive for their needs and use the
MIT/BSD (modified) license instead. GPL is focused more on forming a
community rather than helping corporations vulture off no-price
software. Anyway, I haven't heard a very convincing argument for
MIT/BSD license, although I use it sometimes when I don't care about
how others use my code (that is, on educational pieces, non-reusable
code etc).
-- Hike Danakian
Daniel Gimpelevich
> Shawn: Many of the companies you may consider "evil" do indeed use
> open-souce, but not free software (that is, they offer the source code
> for you to look at, but you are not allowed to modify, redistribute,
> etc).
Software with such licensing restrictions is not open-source. To be
considered open-source, it must conform to the Open-Source Definition,
which is a de-Debianized form of the Debian Free Software Guidelines.
The definition of Free Software is a bit looser, and is generally
arbited by the Free Software Foundation. Some open-source software is
not Free Software, and vice-versa, but the overlap is huge.
Shawn Adams
Hike
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Perhaps more toward my point, which I may not have made entirely clear -
it appears that more often, legal activity is shaping technology.
I cite a number of potential organizations who were going to move toward
Linux away from the "status quo", but halted due to threatened lawsuits
against the distributors of Linux, and the potential retroactive
licensing fees these distributors may have been forced to pass along to
paying customers.
To me, one of the bi-products of such decisions - shaped by legal
maneuverings - and yes - marketing - might be reducing profit of some of
the smaller, more innovative companies, and ensuring the money always
lands in the same pockets. this could de-motivates other small
entrepeneurs and risk-takers away from what might become technological
breakthroughs that would make our computing lives more efficient and
enjoyable.
I'd simply like to see technologists take back the world we helped
create, and I think this forum might be a starting point for non-lawyers
like me to fully understand the legal landscape, in order to form a plan
of action.
My request is simply to take advantage of BTIP's reach in pulling in
experts and those in-the-know to correct the perhaps misunderstandings
or to provide more clarity of those of us perhaps
not-completely-in-the-know.
@Hike's post - You bring an interesting point - can the technology
community come up with some type of licensing and/or organization to
assist small innovators to properly protect their property, help them
navigate the legal minefield being laid by the naked emperors, and
perhaps help allow some of these "little guys" to reach their full
potential, without being crushed by the big guys before they get running ?
Best regards,
giovanni_re
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:20:42 +0100, "Shawn Adams" <shawn...@web.de> said:
>
> John,
>
> I'd like to see the technical still-capable-of-intelligent-thought crowd
> get together, discuss, and come up with at least 3 concrete, actionable
> ideas on how we can achieve the following goals. We'd use your power of
> advertisement and influence to distribute the info to the masses via
> whatever means open to us.
;) Thanks for the compliment. :) I do have power to advertize (btip), but probably not much influence. ;)
>
> The idea is to mobilize volumes of thinking people to accomplish our
> goals.
In line with my comment right above, (& my comment at the top about not having enough time, ;) ),
1) I think you've suggested an excellent topic deserving of several levels of construction: discussion via voip at meetings, here in the mailing list, getting a speaker, etc.
2) I think you should take this idea & figure out & arrange for something to happen wrt btip - ie, like find & arrange for a speaker to come give a live talk, via voip or irc.
My "powers" wrt btip are mainly the idea generation & arranging, given my limited time. So, with a good idea like yours (or any idea, ex: having our own voip server, or email server, or website, or finding videos to watch, etc) it needs someone to make it happen. I'm currently at the limit of the very small amount of time I can put into btip. For more to happen, we'll need individuals to make the things happen.
So,,, that is an opportunity for you, if you'd like it. :) I encourage you to figure out a way to enable some of your ideas to happen, in the context of btip. If you find a speaker, I'd be glad to schedule that into btip, & include that info in the announcements.
3) I think the 1st step would be to talk to people via voip at our next meeting, & see what comments & suggestions & questions they have. :)
>
> RANT ON
>
...
> Is it too much to ask us to give up a bit of comfort - stop watching WMA
> codec videos, stop taking the "naked emperor" road - the easy automatic
> way out - but work a bit harder to make some bit of technology work as
> we'd like ?
So, here's where you have an opportunity to use a bit of your time to get something along these lines arranged for btip, such as arranging for a speaker. :)
>
> RANT OFF
>
> Goals:
...
Shawn Adams
Pursant to the topic of future BTIP topcis, SW licencing, etc...
http://www.spi-inc.org/about-spi/goals
I'm going to pursue contact with this group, the pages are well done,
informative, but was unable to find concrete activities or information.
Best regards,
giovanni_re
>
> Pursant to the topic of future BTIP topcis, SW licencing, etc...
>
> http://www.spi-inc.org/about-spi/goals
>
> I'm going to pursue contact with this group, the pages are well done,
> informative, but was unable to find concrete activities or information.
IIRC, this grew out of Debian - was it their way of making a group to manage the Debian project?
BTW, Bdale, the current pres of SPI, is a great guy. Works at HP in Colorado, flies around the world to debian conferences, helps HP support Debian users of HP hw, was the Debian leader a few years ago.