'nother one in Autumn?

[Em]

On my blog I accidentally created a bit of noise about reconveing, but
ensuring that the event was more open to those with families etc -
www.emmamulqueeny.com: The problem with social media

Mark O'Neill from DCMS has mumbled about sponsoring it and getting
closely involved which would be fab. Anyone else got anything to add?

[Mark O'Neill]

And if people are nice, I won't bring along the robot.

I am sure that a lot of people from my sectors would be interested in
coming along.

On Jun 10, 3:20 pm, Em <mulq...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On my blog I accidentally created a bit of noise about reconveing, but

> ensuring that the event was more open to those with families etc -www.emmamulqueeny.com:The problem with social media

[Dave Briggs]

I think the autumn would be an excelent time for everyone to get
together again. The initial event, and subsequent teacamps, brought
people together, got everyone up to speed with what's out there and
what is possible. It would be great to have a big review of what's
going on, and finding out how we can help one another.

Dave

--
Dave Briggs
d...@davepress.net | http://davepress.net | 020 8133 8008 (Skype) 07525
209589 (Mobile)

[Em]

And make it family friendly if on weekend :)

On Jun 10, 4:47 pm, "Dave Briggs" <d...@change2.org> wrote:
> I think the autumn would be an excelent time for everyone to get
> together again. The initial event, and subsequent teacamps, brought
> people together, got everyone up to speed with what's out there and
> what is possible. It would be great to have a big review of what's
> going on, and finding out how we can help one another.
>
> Dave
>

[Feargal Hogan (E-mail)]

Time to get the DCSF involved, methinks!

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[Dave Briggs]

Good to see folk are into getting something together again!

Some questions (some in a devil's advocate stylee...)

* Are we barcamping again, or going for something more structured?

* Organising via barcamp wiki or through our own at govhack.com?

* Do we need a theme for this one, as we've done the intro with the first?

* Are there some new ways we can use to discuss issues before, during
and after - Crowdvine? Coveritlive?

* Is there something interesting we could do on sessions? Maybe people
put them forward and we do some digg style voting on those we fancy?

Just some ideas....

Dave

[Jeremy Gould]

Lots of questions. My main concern is having one for the sake of it. Dave is right, we need to have some kind of theme to hang it off. Personally I think the biggest challenge is convincing the decision makers and budget holders of the value of this stuff. That means: either focusing on strategies and techniques for creating legitimacy and buy-in for all this stuff, or an event for them run by us to demonstrate the value.

JEREMY GOULD
http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Dave Briggs]

What (if anything) might get the decision makers and budget holders to
actually come along? Maybe if we did it over two days, a Friday and a
Saturday maybe. Get the DMs and BHs to come on the Friday, so they
don't lose a day of their weekend, and talk to them about what's going
on already - in different depts, organisations, authorities. Then on
the saturday we could have the geekfest, maybe to develop ideas that
raised the most interest the day before?

Dave

[Jeremy Gould]

Sounds like a plan - there are others thinking similar things. I agree, some kind of unconference, rather than a pure barcamp, might be a better idea. I think its time to get the 'interested ones' into our circle of friends.

JEREMY GOULD
http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Steve Dale]

Would be good if we could get Ian Watmore to come along. He might
benefit from meeting more of those that 'walk the talk'.

Steve

On Jun 11, 9:33 pm, "Jeremy Gould" <jeremygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like a plan - there are others thinking similar things. I agree, some
> kind of unconference, rather than a pure barcamp, might be a better idea. I
> think its time to get the 'interested ones' into our circle of friends.
>

> JEREMY GOULDhttp://whitehallwebby.com|http://twitter.com/jeremygould|http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Dave Briggs <d...@change2.org> wrote:
>
> > What (if anything) might get the decision makers and budget holders to
> > actually come along? Maybe if we did it over two days, a Friday and a
> > Saturday maybe. Get the DMs and BHs to come on the Friday, so they
> > don't lose a day of their weekend, and talk to them about what's going
> > on already - in different depts, organisations, authorities. Then on
> > the saturday we could have the geekfest, maybe to develop ideas that
> > raised the most interest the day before?
>
> > Dave
>

> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Jeremy Gould <jeremygo...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
> > > Lots of questions. My main concern is having one for the sake of it. Dave
> > is
> > > right, we need to have some kind of theme to hang it off. Personally I
> > think
> > > the biggest challenge is convincing the decision makers and budget
> > holders
> > > of the value of this stuff. That means: either focusing on strategies and
> > > techniques for creating legitimacy and buy-in for all this stuff, or an
> > > event for them run by us to demonstrate the value.
>
> > > JEREMY GOULD
> > >http://whitehallwebby.com|http://twitter.com/jeremygould|
> > >http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/
>

> > >> >> > >www.emmamulqueeny.com:Theproblem with social media

>
> > >> >> > > Mark O'Neill from DCMS has mumbled about sponsoring it and
> > getting
> > >> >> > > closely involved which would be fab. Anyone else got
> > >> >> anything to add?
>
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Dave Briggs
> > >> >> > d...@davepress.net |http://davepress.net|020 8133 8008
> > >> >> (Skype) 07525
> > >> >> > 209589 (Mobile)
>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > Shipping Guides Ltd,
> > >> > 75 Bell St, Reigate, Surrey RH2 7AN, United Kingdom.
> > >> > Tel: +44 1737 242255
> > >> > Fax: +44 1737 222449

> > >> > Email: i...@portinfo.co.uk

[Jeremy Gould]

Certainly, I think prime targets include: perm secs, ministers, their special political advisors, CIOs, Directors of comms. People with power and budgets.

JEREMY GOULD
http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Dave Briggs]

What are the chances of getting those sort of people to an event, do
you think? I'm guessing that chances would be increased were it during
the week rather than the weekend, and probably Friday would be a bad
day...

[ShaneMcC]

Would a Sunday / Monday format work better? Sunday meet-up for the
dedicated followed by a more organised Monday morning or afternoon
highlights/dessimination/conversation with those bigwigs who can't
won't make the Sunday.

Shane

On Jun 12, 10:43 pm, "Dave Briggs" <d...@change2.org> wrote:
> What are the chances of getting those sort of people to an event, do
> you think? I'm guessing that chances would be increased were it during
> the week rather than the weekend, and probably Friday would be a bad
> day...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Jeremy Gould <jeremygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Certainly, I think prime targets include: perm secs, ministers, their
> > special political advisors, CIOs, Directors of comms. People with power and
> > budgets.
>
> > JEREMY GOULD
> >http://whitehallwebby.com|http://twitter.com/jeremygould|
> >http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/
>

> >> > > >> >> > >www.emmamulqueeny.com:Theproblemwith social media

[stephdius]

I think that's a good idea - it also means that some of the highlights
or ideas emerging from the Sunday can be replayed to the Monday
audience to get their support. If we have some specific propositions/
projects we need a high-level champion for, this could be a good
forum.

I can certainly work on getting Ian Watmore to come along - I suspect
he'd be very keen. A Monday would work better for him than a Friday.

Steph

> > >> > > >> >> > >www.emmamulqueeny.com:Theproblemwithsocial media

> > 209589 (Mobile)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dave Briggs]

Great ideas!

In fact, whilst it might be nice to maintain momentum by holding the
two events on consecutive days, it might be possible to do them in the
same week. Sunday might be tricky for people esp. public
transport-wise.

Jeremy mentioned earlier that it is important that the event has a
theme, something to tie it all together now a lot of the intros, etc,
have been done. I'm not sure if it really classes as a theme, but
going back to the beginning might be really useful. In other words,
trying to define exactly what it is that isn't happening at the
moment, and what we can do to make it happen, and what we need from
the bigwigs to be able to do it.

Maybe a good starting point for this discussion would be Paul
Canning's list of '10 things not happening in eGov':
http://paulcanning.blogspot.com/2008/04/one-year-on-ten-answers-for-minister.html
which included:

# Findability
# Disengagement from the wider web and those damned walled gardens
# Engaging the industry
# Marketing
# Widgetising services
# Engaging the local
# Cheaper usability methods
# Content
# Fixations on 'engagement'
# Utilising reputation

Dave

[paulcanning]

couldn't but agree! also, we do need to get PSWMG going (or PS
webbies, as I think it should be). This was discussed at the last PSF
gathering and I am very keen to get formally organised, as i think
this is desperately needed.

Issues would be direction - lobbying?, sustainability, funding,
structure, including non-govvies (consultants etc), priorities +
relationships with other bodies i.e SOCITM, SPIN etc.

these two things don't need to be folded together but realistically
and because a very productive first national PSWMG meeting/first AGM
is essential so a decent lead-in is needed - autumn sounds best 2 me.

what do people think?

p.

On Jun 13, 3:27 pm, "Dave Briggs" <d...@change2.org> wrote:
> Great ideas!
>
> In fact, whilst it might be nice to maintain momentum by holding the
> two events on consecutive days, it might be possible to do them in the
> same week. Sunday might be tricky for people esp. public
> transport-wise.
>
> Jeremy mentioned earlier that it is important that the event has a
> theme, something to tie it all together now a lot of the intros, etc,
> have been done. I'm not sure if it really classes as a theme, but
> going back to the beginning might be really useful. In other words,
> trying to define exactly what it is that isn't happening at the
> moment, and what we can do to make it happen, and what we need from
> the bigwigs to be able to do it.
>
> Maybe a good starting point for this discussion would be Paul

> Canning's list of '10 things not happening in eGov':http://paulcanning.blogspot.com/2008/04/one-year-on-ten-answers-for-m...

[Justin]

Do we need another group or could the PSWMG integrate into one of the
existing groups?

> ...
>
> read more »

[Jeremygould]

We're just one big happy family! Seriously, PSWMG has been gestating
for a long time, its focus is wider public sector. It makes absolute
sense that we should work closely. But realistically, one
organisation covering the whole public sector online community
(including central gov and its various agencies/NDPBs) is going to be
tricky to manage.

Think the idea of overlapping but similar groups is not a problem.

[Steve Dale]

Just before we go gung-ho for a Sunday and Monday, as Dave points out
this may be tricky for those using public transport. For anyone on a
commute line to London, Sunday is a nightmare for travel. We don't
want to create any avoidable obstacles for people attending. I would
have thought we could still get the format to work if we did a
Saturday and Monday. If necessary use the Sunday for virtual
collaboration and pulling things together for the Monday sessions.

What do others think?

Steve

On Jun 13, 3:27 pm, "Dave Briggs" <d...@change2.org> wrote:
> Great ideas!
>
> In fact, whilst it might be nice to maintain momentum by holding the
> two events on consecutive days, it might be possible to do them in the
> same week. Sunday might be tricky for people esp. public
> transport-wise.
>
> Jeremy mentioned earlier that it is important that the event has a
> theme, something to tie it all together now a lot of the intros, etc,
> have been done. I'm not sure if it really classes as a theme, but
> going back to the beginning might be really useful. In other words,
> trying to define exactly what it is that isn't happening at the
> moment, and what we can do to make it happen, and what we need from
> the bigwigs to be able to do it.
>
> Maybe a good starting point for this discussion would be Paul

> Canning's list of '10 things not happening in eGov':http://paulcanning.blogspot.com/2008/04/one-year-on-ten-answers-for-m...

[Jeremygould]

That's not a bad idea.

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 03:15:33AM -0700, Steve Dale wrote:
>
> Just before we go gung-ho for a Sunday and Monday, as Dave points out
> this may be tricky for those using public transport. For anyone on a
> commute line to London, Sunday is a nightmare for travel. We don't

Agreed. Engineering works &c

> want to create any avoidable obstacles for people attending. I would
> have thought we could still get the format to work if we did a
> Saturday and Monday. If necessary use the Sunday for virtual
> collaboration and pulling things together for the Monday sessions.
>
> What do others think?

Or building/coding things, à la BarCamp, on the Sunday? (or perhaps Best
Practice Workshops/What Whitehall can learn from Civic Society)

[Dave Briggs]

I have started to put bits down on the wiki here:
http://www.govhack.com/SecondMeet

Dave

[ShaneMcC]

From a selfish point of view Sat/Mon up the cost of travel
considerably (£150 as opposed to £48 or less) or turns it into a three
day event which would cost me considerably more in terms of making it
up to the missus.

For those of us travelling in from a distance it is far less practical
than consecutive days.

Shane

> ...
>
> read more »

[Jeremy Gould]

Good point Shane

JEREMY GOULD
http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[James Darling]

I'm still bitter that I didn't get to see a conference full of civil
servants getting into sleeping bags and having a big sleepover.

I personally think that any "official" meeting about the fallout of
anything that comes from the barcamp can and should be an entirely
separate event. The barrier of it being in a weekend stops those who
don't want to give up a weekend from coming, and this is a good thing.
I admit this is harsh on some people who can't make it for other
reasons, but that's just how it will have to be.

It feels to me that this is getting pulled more and more into the
bureaucracy as it tries to become more official. Whilst it may be
frustrating to see the disconnect between the barcamp event and the
offices, I feel it's essential to stop it becoming just another
meeting of the day. It certainly puts of people like me, who turn up
with no ties to government at all other than a hippy-ish personal
interest.

So sure, of course there has to be a way of bringing what is made to
the appropiate department, but I feel the two should be firmly
seperate - like church and state (the cult of barcamp) or something.
(as you can see, my political knowledge is a bit hit and miss, but
that's kind of the point)

I've yet to figure this out fully, and will be chatting this over with
Emma this Wednesday, but just wanted to make it clear now I'm not
confident about these plans.

Also, I may have a venue... but it may be a bit controversial, will
update soon.

James

[Jeremy Gould]

Like the church and state analogy. I think you're spot on but there is something about transferring over the energy and enthusiasm of a barcamp to the initiated decision makers and influencers. We need to somehow bridge that gap and having two closely related but separate events seems likea nice way to do it.

JEREMY GOULD
http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Dave Briggs]

Though the church did get where it is today (ok, where it was 50 years
ago) with a healthy amount of state support!

I do take James' point but equally we need to ensure we avoid these
events don't become endless feedback loops or exercises in preaching
to the converted, or whatever.

--

[Em]

james, I am wholeheartedly with you. Especially as Digital People is
limited to only civil servants, meaning many people like me and you
are not going to be able to contribute to the more official stuff
anyway. So I with James, and yes, we will chat about this tomorrow.
Cannot wait :)

[Jeremy Gould]

I don't think digital people is limited to civil servants at all. the IDEA COP platform is limited to people working inside govt/private sector (i.e. those with a .gov.uk address) but the ethos and therefore the membership of digital people more generally is wider than that - anybody working to improve govt online.

JEREMY GOULD
http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Em]

OK, so the collaborative portal is restricted but the membership of
the group of people is not

Got to dash, seeing boy wonder later and will chat further then

On Jun 18, 10:23 am, "Jeremy Gould" <jeremygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think digital people is limited to civil servants at all. the IDEA
> COP platform is limited to people working inside govt/private sector (i.e.
> those with a .gov.uk address) but the ethos and therefore the membership of
> digital people more generally is wider than that - anybody working to
> improve govt online.
>

> JEREMY GOULDhttp://whitehallwebby.com|http://twitter.com/jeremygould|http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

> > > James- Hide quoted text -

[Jeremy Gould]

Exactly - and to be honest I view the portal as one of many online spaces for these discussions, and probably not the most important one at that.

The important thing is the people after all.

JEREMY GOULD

http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Steve Dale]

Just to clarify, anyone can register on the the IDeA CoP platform,
regardless of email address, but .gov.uk emails are automatically
gated through. Non-gov emails are checked to ensure the person has
something to do with local gov improvement or can add value to one or
more of the CoPs. Thus, it is perfectly feasible for someone with a
private email address to register on the platform and join a CoP (that
said, free email accounts such as Gmail and Hotmail are treated with
suspicion and are unlikely to be approved).

The Digital People CoP has been set up as a 'private' CoP, which means
the Digital People Facilitators have full authority over who can and
can't join. They have decided to exclude anyone not working in gov/
local gov in order to maintain integrity of the discussions. The down
side of this is that you end up excluding experienced people from the
private sector who could add value, insight and experience to the mix.
I have made this point in the DP Forum, as have several others, but
the final decision is with the business sponsor (COI) who - at least
for the time being - have decided to maintain the current 'gov only'
rule.

I have suggested we get an update on any outcomes from the DP project
at the next UKGovWeb Barcamp (item added to the wiki). Better to have
a sanitised update than nothing at all.

Steve

On Jun 18, 10:23 am, "Jeremy Gould" <jeremygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think digital people is limited to civil servants at all. the IDEA
> COP platform is limited to people working inside govt/private sector (i.e.
> those with a .gov.uk address) but the ethos and therefore the membership of
> digital people more generally is wider than that - anybody working to
> improve govt online.
>

> JEREMY GOULDhttp://whitehallwebby.com|http://twitter.com/jeremygould|http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Jeremy Gould]

Good idea, and thanks for clarifying the point about the IDEA platform generally.

JEREMY GOULD

http://whitehallwebby.com | http://twitter.com/jeremygould | http://linkedin.com/in/jeremygould/

[Neil Williams]

PSWMG? Can someone spell that out for me?

[Ian Dunmore]

Hear hear to this.

(Sorry if I'm being hasty, just back from hols and not caught up with email
backlog yet, but well said James anyway).

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Darling" <abs...@gmail.com>
To: "BarcampUKGovweb" <Barcamp...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 3:31 PM
Subject: [BarcampUKGovweb] Re: 'nother one in Autumn?

>

[Dave Briggs]

Public Sector Web Managers' Group. See http://pswmg.org.uk for more, or I blogged a bit about it here: http://davepress.net/2008/06/20/the-webbies-union/

D

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Neil Williams <neill...@gmail.com> wrote:

PSWMG? Can someone spell that out for me?

[Paul Canning]

there's a constitution thread there, if people are interested and want to see where we've got to.

I agree with James' point about barcamp/PSW being two different things /ideas etc. - actually, it makes sense that it  (launch agm) follows barcamp so we can use that event to recruit!

paul "firebrand" canning (as coined by dave "briggsy" briggs)

2008/6/23 Dave Briggs <da...@change2.org>:

--
www.paulcanning.me.uk
web stuff and other ramblings
~~~~~~~~~~~

[Ian Dunmore]

P S W M G

-----Original Message-----
From: Barcamp...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Barcamp...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Williams
Sent: 23 June 2008 09:52
To: BarcampUKGovweb
Subject: [BarcampUKGovweb] Re: 'nother one in Autumn?