The Mystery Deepens--Manuel Azevedo

[Guida Leicester]

Greetings, At long last, I have found birth certificates for my grandfather, Manuel Silveira d'Azevedo and his 7 (of 8) siblings--I still need to find one more.  I also found my great grandfather, Vencelão Silveira (José) d'Azevedo's death certificate.  His father, my gggrandfather, Manuel Antonio de Azevedo, was "pai incognito" at Venceláo's birth and Maria Mendonça was the declared mother. But Vencelão's death certificate says he is the legitimate son of Manuel Antonio de Azevedo and Rita Victorina. Two questions, could there have been two women Rita Maria Mendonça and Rita Victorina, or could the two actually be one woman?  Rita M. Mendonça has a birth certificate.  Where would the name Victorina have come from if both are just one woman? Although I have found no record (yet)of Manuel Antonio de Azevedo and Rita ever having married, they had seven kids together, one being Vencelão.  Both Ritas had same kids with Manuel.  So, either Manuel had two "wives", with one adopting the others children or at some point they (one Rita only and Manuel the first) married, making Venceláo a legitimate son of the 2 at encelão's death (or at least as recognized so by the church in his death certificate). Any ideas or theories of what was really going on with these ancestors?  Manuel Antonio--my gggrandad--was the godparent of several of Vencelão's children, so there was an ongoing relationship throughout their lives, but a strange reluctance to admit paternity until much later? Thanks for insights Guida

["E" Sharp]

Guida,

 

Welcome to the club where they used any name they so desired at any time they so desired.  So it's possible they could be the same woman, especially given the first name Rita on both.  On one of my a male relative's baptism record it lists pai incognito BUT on his son's baptism record it lists his paternal grandfather.  That is how I found how who the father of the male relative with pai incognito was--somehow they were willing to admit it later on the grandsons record?????

 

"E"

[Guida Leicester]

Hi Elaine, Thanks!  I went thru old info I had and found that, yes indeed, both Ritas are the same woman, but I'm not sure where the Victorina name came from, and (so far) that name only appears in Vencelaos death certificate.  She is Rita Maria (de) Mendonca everywhere else. So, my hunt continues...I will keep all posted. Guida --- On Sun, 10/12/08, "E" Sharp <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Maggie Sutton]

Here is the information from the "Rols" of Riberia Seca from 1875:

 

Fajã dos Cubres 444 9 1 Venceslau Silveira Azevedo m 46 co Camponês

Fajã dos Cubres 444 Maria Vitorina f mulher 52 ca Ocupante doméstica

Fajã dos Cubres 444 Mariana f filha 23 sa Ocupante doméstica

Fajã dos Cubres 444 Maria f filha 21 sa Ocupante doméstica

Fajã dos Cubres 444 Ana f filha 15 sa Ocupante doméstica

Fajã dos Cubres 444 Manuel m filho 13 so

Fajã dos Cubres 444 José m filho 11 so

Fajã dos Cubres 444 João m filho 9 so

Fajã dos Cubres 444 Rita f filha 7 sa

 

From:  Maggie Homen Sutton

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[Marr...@cs.com]

In a message dated 10/12/2008 9:14:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chand...@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Elaine,
Thanks!  I went thru old info I had and found that, yes indeed, both Ritas are the same woman, but I'm not sure where the Victorina name came from, and (so far) that name only appears in Vencelaos death certificate.  She is Rita Maria (de) Mendonca everywhere else.

So, my hunt continues...I will keep all posted.

Vitorina is probably a given name, not a family name.


**************
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[nancy jean baptiste]

Victorina is a name I'm also interested in because my ggrandfather Joseph Veterino was really Jose Victorino Bitencourt from Sao Jorge......I've been researching the Baptisms recently posted for Topo and I've found lots and lots of the name Victorino and Victorina.....frequently the name is connected to Oliveiras and Bitencourt (which I've seen spelled several different ways)....in some instances the Victorino name appears to be the surname and in others is a middle or first name....
The most interesting thing is how certain names are clustered in certain areas with Machado being the most frequent name on Sao Jorge in all the different areas on line to research.
 
I love the mystery......
Nancy Jean Baptiste......(Baptista)

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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:33:28 -0700
From: chand...@yahoo.com

[gfsj...@aol.com]

The Victorino name is also of interest in my father's family. It first appeared as the middle name of my great grandfather Francisco Victorino de Vasconcellos, born in Fazenda das Lages, Flores in 1798, son of Francisco Ignacio de Vasconcellos. He was the only one of 8 siblings to carry Victorino  ( nowadays spelled Vitorino) as a middle name. Most of his descendants (male and female) carried it as a middle name including part of my generation. Back in the Azores it almost became an alcunha. My first cousin Father Francisco Vitorino Vasconcelos (now deceased) and former pastor of Nossa Senhora da Conceicao in Santa Cruz, Flores was familiarly known as "Padre Vitorino" by his parishiners. The family is sometimes refered to as "Os Vitorinos" back on Flores. Some of my first cousins back on Flores have Vitorino as a middle name. However, I don't know offhand of any of the next generation which have Vitorino as a middle name. And, as far as i know, it was never used as a surname.
John James Vasconcelos, son of Joao Vitorino Vasconcelos

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[Guida Leicester]

Hi Nancy, Very interesting.  Rita's father's name was Antonio Machado Mendonça and her nother's name was Antonia Maria de Souza, so there is a Machado connection.  I wonder what is behind the name Victorina for this surname?  Like you, I love the mystery, which I seem to find everywher.  I think I missed my calling--I should have been a mystery writer--lol!  Guess I will work on solving the Sao Jorge Azore Islands mysteries. You made an interesting discovery that makes it even more mysterious.  Do you know when this name first appeared, what year?  Thanks for the insight! Guida

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, nancy jean baptiste <fishso...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: nancy jean baptiste <fishso...@hotmail.com>

[LIONEL J HOLMES]

There are a number of surnamed Vitorino, Victorino, Victorine in the Sacramento CA area, as my funeral-notice files show.  Let me know if you'd like to see them.   Lionel --- On Mon, 10/13/08, gfsj...@aol.com <gfsj...@aol.com> wrote:

[nancy jean baptiste]

Hi Guida,
 
I'm researching all the baptismal records from 1828 to 1840....reading them all one by one and although I've seen the name Vitorino/Vitorina occassionally in the other areas of Sao Jorge that are on the CCA site this is the first time that I've seen so many......this Topo area also has more Bettencourt/Bitencourt  which is another name I'm looking for. I've also seen the Machado Mendoca names connected like that in the Topo records.
However, I'm most excited with my research in this area because thanks to Elaine I now know my Antonio Texiera Baptista is from Sao Jorge and I've definetly found more Baptistas in the Topo part of the island than any other place available for research.....I found a couple in Ribiera Seca but lots more in Topo!!!!! I'm searching like a wild woman for Joao Texiera Baptista and Agueda M. (?) Baptista....parents of my Antonio!
 
Nancy Jean 

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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:54:05 -0700