Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
community for those who believed this way and after the great
awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
of the fall of man.
We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
Tenets of the United Deist Church:
"I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> community for those who believed this way and after the great
> awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> of the fall of man.
> We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > of the fall of man.
> > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
framework for God and are on their way to theism. I can't speak for
all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> community for those who believed this way and after the great
> awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> of the fall of man.
> We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> framework for God and are on their way to theism.
Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
one's way to theism.
> I can't speak for
> all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
note.
> Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
wouldn't have been as popular.
> On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > of the fall of man.
> > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
On 6 nov, 10:09, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> one's way to theism.
There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
are on their path to theism.
> > I can't speak for
> > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> note.
> > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> wouldn't have been as popular.
> > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > of the fall of man.
> > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
The argument is about Truth, not what feels good, or satisfies the
common denominator for the greatest number of people, or gives the
greatest number of people touchy-feely vibes.
If Jesus Christ is the Truth, then that's the end of the story. If
not, then ignore it all.
As far as I'm concerned, He's the truth. That's it.
On Nov 6, 8:16 pm, etienne <etienne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6 nov, 10:09, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > one's way to theism.
> There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> are on their path to theism.
> > > I can't speak for
> > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > note.
> > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> community for those who believed this way and after the great
> awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> of the fall of man.
> We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
A deist is just a theist who's realized how stupid and unfounded the
idea is of a god who controls events from outside of the human world.
But, not being able to free themselves from indoctrinated
superstitions a deist still needs to think a magic sky daddy still
exists.
For a deist, their magic sky daddy is like an unknown father who left
home when the child was born and has never been in touch since. This
gives them the liberty of not having to answer questions about what
their magic sky daddy does etc. In fact, they can say their unknown
magic sky daddy did everything. And unlike the poor theist they don't
have to try to answer questions about the lies on their birth
certificate, (the bible)!
But, in the end, both theists and deists both live in houses built on
superstition. The only real difference is that theists make worse and
noiser neighbours.
On 6 nov, 11:51, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au> wrote:
> The argument is about Truth, not what feels good, or satisfies the
> common denominator for the greatest number of people, or gives the
> greatest number of people touchy-feely vibes.
> If Jesus Christ is the Truth, then that's the end of the story. If
> not, then ignore it all.
Truth is not a person and "Jesus Christ" exists only in your mind.
Do you often ignore what you consider to be falsehood ?
> > > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > > one's way to theism.
> > There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> > etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> > evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> > way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> > are on their path to theism.
> > > > I can't speak for
> > > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > > note.
> > > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
Fair enough for the unintiated. Or maybe Deism is a clever form of
atheism in the ruse of a religion. If you have to have a religion, why
not make it one that is tolerable.
On Nov 6, 3:24 am, TLC <tlc.tere...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> A deist is just a theist who's realized how stupid and unfounded the
> idea is of a god who controls events from outside of the human world.
> But, not being able to free themselves from indoctrinated
> superstitions a deist still needs to think a magic sky daddy still
> exists.
> For a deist, their magic sky daddy is like an unknown father who left
> home when the child was born and has never been in touch since. This
> gives them the liberty of not having to answer questions about what
> their magic sky daddy does etc. In fact, they can say their unknown
> magic sky daddy did everything. And unlike the poor theist they don't
> have to try to answer questions about the lies on their birth
> certificate, (the bible)!
> But, in the end, both theists and deists both live in houses built on
> superstition. The only real difference is that theists make worse and
> noiser neighbours.
On Nov 6, 2:51 am, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au> wrote:
> The argument is about Truth, not what feels good, or satisfies the
> common denominator for the greatest number of people, or gives the
> greatest number of people touchy-feely vibes.
> If Jesus Christ is the Truth, then that's the end of the story.
This is droll; the notion of abstract nouns being people. To continue
in your vein:
If Jesus is the Time, then ding dong.
If not, who is the Time?
If Jesus is Ticklishness, then "ha ha".
If not, who is Ticklishness?
If Jesus is the Night, then good night.
If not, who is the Night?
On Nov 6, 1:41 am, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> framework for God and are on their way to theism. I can't speak for
> all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
Atheists in denial?
Are theists even aware of the total nonsense they come up with?
So, atheists are in denial of an imaginary being?
And theists are not in denial of reality which has no evidence (and
never had any) whatsoever for such an imaginary being?
> I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
True, all theists are more or less equal in the fact that they are
deluded.
Some more than others, but still, delusion is at the center of it all.
> Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God.
Such a hunger is implanted by education and brain washing. Don't make
it look like it is something we are born with.
The need to make sense of the world around us and the creation of gods
are different things, even if they are related.
> It is highly
> satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
_________________________________________________
For the fundamentalist who wants to believe every word of the Bible,
however, life is a house of cards, with each card a tenet of faith. If
you remove one card, the entire house collapses.
-- Morris Sullivan
> Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> community for those who believed this way and after the great
> awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> of the fall of man.
> We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
My understanding of the difference between deism and theism is that
deists believe there is a God while theists believe that God is
personal and can be known.
The reason that I said that Christians view deists as people that are
on their way to becoming theists is based on the "Engel Scale" which
was developed as an evangelical model for understanding how people
become Christians. See http://www.hazelden.org.uk/pt02/art_pt068_modified_engel_full.htm
The Engel Scale isn't a one way street there are people traveling in
both directions on it but as Christians we view the direction that
leads to relationship with Christ as the right direction and as
optimists we tend to think that everyone is headed that way. I wasn't
saying that every deist is on their way to being a theist, I was just
answering the question "what do Christians think about deists" and
that was my attempt to represent what I think most Christians think.
On Nov 6, 3:16 am, etienne <etienne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6 nov, 10:09, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > one's way to theism.
> There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> are on their path to theism.
> > > I can't speak for
> > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > note.
> > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
> My understanding of the difference between deism and theism is that
> deists believe there is a God while theists believe that God is
> personal and can be known.
> The reason that I said that Christians view deists as people that are
> on their way to becoming theists is based on the "Engel Scale" which
> was developed as an evangelical model for understanding how people
> become Christians. Seehttp://www.hazelden.org.uk/pt02/art_pt068_modified_engel_full.htm
> The Engel Scale isn't a one way street there are people traveling in
> both directions on it but as Christians we view the direction that
> leads to relationship with Christ as the right direction and as
> optimists we tend to think that everyone is headed that way. I wasn't
> saying that every deist is on their way to being a theist, I was just
> answering the question "what do Christians think about deists" and
> that was my attempt to represent what I think most Christians think.
> On Nov 6, 3:16 am, etienne <etienne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > > one's way to theism.
> > There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> > etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> > evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> > way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> > are on their path to theism.
> > > > I can't speak for
> > > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > > note.
> > > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
On 6 nov, 16:49, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My understanding of the difference between deism and theism is that
> deists believe there is a God while theists believe that God is
> personal and can be known.
My understanding is that the main difference is political, Deists are
less likely to try to organize or link human behavior to their belief
in the existence of a God. Less likely to use their beliefs as tools,
even if that can happens anyway. With far less problems of respect for
old mistakes, deception, outdated opinions or idolatry too.
Not every theist believe that God is personal or can be known btw, it
is presented like that to children.
> The reason that I said that Christians view deists as people that are
> on their way to becoming theists is based on the "Engel Scale" which
> was developed as an evangelical model for understanding how people
> become Christians. Seehttp://www.hazelden.org.uk/pt02/art_pt068_modified_engel_full.htm
hehe.
> The Engel Scale isn't a one way street there are people traveling in
> both directions on it but as Christians we view the direction that
> leads to relationship with Christ as the right direction and as
> optimists we tend to think that everyone is headed that way. I wasn't
> saying that every deist is on their way to being a theist, I was just
> answering the question "what do Christians think about deists" and
> that was my attempt to represent what I think most Christians think.
Ok, but I would not be that optimist if I were you, Deists tend to
share the atheist view on the veracity, advantages or problems of
religions.
> > > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > > one's way to theism.
> > There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> > etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> > evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> > way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> > are on their path to theism.
> > > > I can't speak for
> > > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > > note.
> > > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
On Nov 6, 8:53 am, dead kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> interesting but where do Hindus sit on the scale?
> Hindus are way above -8 as they have an awareness of millions of gods
The typical Hindu is monist and doesn't believe in multiple gods any
more than Athanasian (i.e., Trinitarian) Christians believe in three
gods. Monist Hindus have a concept of devatas (manifestations of one
God) just like Athanasian Christians have a concept of a trinity with
3 manifestations of one God. No Hindu is aware of over a million names
for God/gods, so it is not possible for any individual Hindu to be
aware of millions of gods. Many of the so-called millions of names
(who counted them into the millions?) are duplicate names for the same
devata (manifestation of god), not names of different gods, just like
Theon/Theos, Gott and Deus in Christian literature are not different
gods.
> but below -6 as they exibit no real interest in jesus.
The Mahim Mata shrine in Mumbai, a shrine to Mary, is frequented by
more Hindus than Christians, and I've come across multiple Hindu
sermons that say something like what is in double quotes below:
"Or maybe Deism is a clever form of atheism in the ruse of a
religion." No. Deism is more akin to agnosticism. Deists are sure
there is a god who ignores them, whereas agnostics can't decide if
there is a god who ignores them.
Atheists, use common sense, rational reasoning, historical and
scientific facts to know that gods don't exist and don't need to sully
their minds with childish and baseless superstitions.
On Nov 7, 2:03 am, TLC <tlc.tere...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> TouchéTom,
> "Or maybe Deism is a clever form of atheism in the ruse of a
> religion." No. Deism is more akin to agnosticism. Deists are sure
> there is a god who ignores them, whereas agnostics can't decide if
> there is a god who ignores them.
> Atheists, use common sense, rational reasoning, historical and
> scientific facts to know that gods don't exist and don't need to sully
> their minds with childish and baseless superstitions.
On Nov 6, 2:51 am, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au> wrote:
> The argument is about Truth, not what feels good, or satisfies the
> common denominator for the greatest number of people, or gives the
> greatest number of people touchy-feely vibes.
Observer
Truth ? Truth is verifiable unlike the hideously stupid myths about an
inept , fictive , sadomasochistic god who allegedly had it's self /
it's son tortured to death to save us from it's own wrath.
That which can not be detected , studied, tested, and from the belief
in which no verifiable, accurate short/long term prognostications can
be made is either non existent , irrelevant to human affairs or both.
> If Jesus Christ is the Truth, then that's the end of the story.
Observer
Belief in Jesus as a god thing is the result of luxuriant psychosis
having been implanted in the minds of those incapable of critical
thought, who do not have a grasp on the major scientific data, and who
are ill informed as to the value and ultimate usefulness of scientific
method.
It has been intelligently noted that those affected by this meme are
effectively challenged from an intellectual stand point so that the
use of vehement attacks upon their sanity/judgment/intellectual acuity
and morals has become the most effective tool by which to deal with
the
inane crap they publish in attempts to spread further, infection by
this insidious filth.
I have no delusions that such an one as you can ever be rehabilitated,
that is incorporated into the intelligentsia of humanity, we can ,
however , inoculate casual readers of your pathological filth
against , inadvertent infection thereby .
In such a case each and very obvious stupidity , and superstitious
belief of the poster can be used in conjunction with his/her obvious
lack of reasoning abilities and argumentative skills , as such an
inoculation against reader infection.
If
> not, then ignore it all.
> As far as I'm concerned, He's the truth. That's it.
Observer
A "truth" that you can in no way substantiate as such. A filthy lie
resultant from this hideous meme by which you and others have been
infected.
The stories in the new testament are among the most completely stupid
myths ever foisted upon the ignorant , and mentally deficient of this
world.
Belief in a Deity is only mildly unsound but belief in the filth and
stupidity of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are a rage and have been
productive of horrors beyond belief since their inceptions.
To be known by their fruit , they are to be known as criminal
psychosis resulting in divisiveness , religious wars, inquisitions,
mass murder , torture killings, terrorism, and (for 1500) years an
almost complete cessation of scientific progress by which we might
have, by now , eliminated thousands of fatal diseases , and enabled
ourselves to feed and clothe the worlds starving masses.
I appeal to all who recognize such, to vehemently attack such filth
with an eye to its final destruction along with the evils thereof.
If it takes humiliation of those who are purveyors of this filth then
by all means lets go for it.
Christianity is on of the final bastions of ignorance and as such is
the one of humanities greatest enemies.
> > > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > > one's way to theism.
> > There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> > etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> > evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> > way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> > are on their path to theism.
> > > > I can't speak for
> > > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > > note.
> > > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:41 AM, red46 <re...@aol.com> wrote:
> Um. Does anyone actually understand what this guy is saying?
> On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists? > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws? > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of > > community for those who believed this way and after the great > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone. > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach > > of the fall of man.
> > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > Tenets of the United Deist Church: > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
On Nov 6, 2:51 am, Bob Crowley <bobcrow...@acenet.net.au> wrote:
> The argument is about Truth, not what feels good, or satisfies the
> common denominator for the greatest number of people, or gives the
> greatest number of people touchy-feely vibes.
> If Jesus Christ is the Truth, then that's the end of the story. If
> not, then ignore it all.
> As far as I'm concerned, He's the truth. That's it.
Violation of Christian Code of Conduct #4.
"Stating unsupportable facts
No one has all documentation for everything they say. It is not
reasonable to require proof from an atheist on everything said.
Nevertheless, if you are going to state a fact or two, it is good to
have the documentation at the tip of your tongue -- at least
occasionally, of have access to it. It adds to your credibility. Of
course, you don't have to document everything, but if you have some
illustrious fact to use, try and have it documented."
> > > On Nov 5, 10:41 pm, 4praise <4prai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Christians generally view deists as people who have begun to develop a
> > > > framework for God and are on their way to theism.
> > > Diests believe in God; if one is already a theist, one can't be on
> > > one's way to theism.
> > There is philosophical differences between theism and deism even if
> > etymologically it means the same thing. And the only path of
> > evolution of beliefs I know is from theism to deism, not the other
> > way. 4praise really lives in "lalala" land if he believes that deists
> > are on their path to theism.
> > > > I can't speak for
> > > > all Christians but I don't think their is a "badness scale" when it
> > > > comes to beliefs. I personally would say that atheists are perhaps in
> > > > denial where deists are not but that doesn't make deists better - and
> > > > I don't think that Christians are "better" than either group because
> > > > we Christians have problems with our beliefs too.
> > > That problems are with beliefs and not with works is interesting to
> > > note.
> > > > Regarding this particular article - the author seems to think that
> > > > deism was just recently discovered. Deism was huge with the early
> > > > founding fathers of the U.S. and amongst Europeans at that time as
> > > > well. Then it was basically decimated (as a movement) by the second
> > > > great awakening. Deism (as a belief system) doesn't seem to have what
> > > > it takes to satisfy the average human's hunger for God. It is highly
> > > > satisfactory to a small minority of seekers that are attempting to
> > > > reconcile faith and reason, but it does not have mass appeal.
> > > Perhaps it's a human hero that the average human hungers for. If God
> > > had sent a talking pigeon that was decapitated by Pilate, Christianity
> > > wouldn't have been as popular.
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:28 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> > > > > If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> > > > > atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
> > > > > When you read your holy book, were you surprised at the errors in it
> > > > > and questioned the validity of a divine document with so many flaws?
> > > > > Do you fluctuate between belief in God and doubt because the thought
> > > > > of not having a group to associate with makes you uneasy? Do you
> > > > > believe in an intelligent design to the universe or believe that God
> > > > > created the universe and then went away? You may be a Deist. For
> > > > > centuries the belief in an architect of the universe was kept to
> > > > > oneself. You were a believer or a heretic. There was no advantage of
> > > > > community for those who believed this way and after the great
> > > > > awakening, many deists turned to Christianity rather than be branded a
> > > > > social outcast. This is where Deism has failed...until now.
> > > > > We are attempting what has never been done before. We are hoping to
> > > > > combine the Deist belief in God and the community of the familiar
> > > > > church. This is not a Unitarian Universalist Church. We are not
> > > > > concerned with the vibration of crystals, the Earth Goddess, Drumming
> > > > > Circles, male/female bonding, talking with spirits or being
> > > > > theological gelatin. We believe in God. We believe in celebrating our
> > > > > existence on this planet with our fellow man in community, not alone.
> > > > > We want to celebrate the milestones of our life in the spirit of
> > > > > community in our relationship with God. We don't need millions of
> > > > > dollars to build universities, send satellites into the sky, or preach
> > > > > of the fall of man.
> > > > > We are taking the first steps to creating The United Deist Church. We
> > > > > have been on the internet since 2002-APR and have made much progress
> > > > > to defining who we are and where we are headed. You are invited to
> > > > > become part of this exciting adventure where we cast off the chains of
> > > > > superstition, dogma, and doubt and create a new expression of what is
> > > > > divine to us and how we may express that in a religious community.
> > > > > Tenets of the United Deist Church:
> > > > > "I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and
> > > > > reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I
> > > > > believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor
> > > > > for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we
> > > > > should follow God's example and give to others as we can."
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do literalist Christians think more highly of deists than of atheists?
> If so, how much more highly? Do they think they're nearly as bad as
> atheists or nearly as good as Christians?
Most Xians I'd consider "literalist" would assume the Deists are as
hell-bound as the rest of the apostates & heretics. Or putting this
way, I don't know if the UU'ers or Unitarians would be much different
from the Deists, and we all know they're all going to Hell!!!! ;-)
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