DevPhone Lifetime/New DevPhones

[Michael Marino]

What is the estimated lifetime of the ADP1 for the Android project
timeline; meaning that how long will this device be supported and
updated by HTC?

Also, are there any new DevPhones on the way?

[Jean-Baptiste Queru]

Sorry, I can't comment about that.

JBQ

--
Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
Software Engineer, Android Open-Source Project, Google.

Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further
warning.

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

Cheers JBQ,

Who do you think we could address the question to?

For a lot of us it's raises the question of support for the platform,
we need an idea of how long the platform will support us.

Thanks, Troy

Purple Oranges Pty Ltd (ACN 107 409 263)
SYD +61-2-8231-5785 BNE +61-7-3018-2829 MEL +61-3-8682-0401
New York +1-212-359-1678
http://purpleoranges.com/

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[Jean-Baptiste Queru]

To be honest, I don't think anyone will have any clear answer at this
point, given that this area is both very complex and very sensitive.

I realize how frustrating the situation is, I really do, I've been in
similar situations myself in the past, and I'd love to have more
information for you, but at the moment there's absolutely nothing that
I can tell you - anything concrete I'd say would likely turn out to be
inaccurate anyway, since I don't see the entire picture, and it would
get me into serious trouble.

JBQ

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

No problem...

We can't have you getting in serious trouble :-)

Troy

[Michael Marino]

Understandable, I just wanted a little clearer of a picture before I
went out and bought the ADP1. I want to do my part as a developer to
make sure that there was not some obvious known "end of life" date
that I was unaware of. I just want to make sure that my $400
investment is not to be outdated in a mere 3 months. If so, my taste
for the platform in general would be very damaged to the point I
wouldn't develop anymore(unless they sold the new phones for a 80% -
90% discount for previous owners :P ). Thanks though.

Michael

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

Michael,

Most of your dev should be done within the emulator in the SDK. With
the new screen sizes, resolutions etc - testing shouldn't be done on
the hardware device.

We use the ADP1's mainly to demo to clients etc.

If you need some help setting up emulators in the SDK let us know,
there are a few helpful places online with good info.

Cheers, Troy

> --
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[yzr]

Right, but thinking of I've just bought the ADP1 of over 600$
( 400+shipping+tax) and successfully update it to 1.6 over night, then
suddently hear one bomb " Android 2.0 is not for you to play with" !
That think already makes me crazy, why google still sells ADP1 but
dont allow developer to develop with the newest sdk? they should have
stopped selling adp1 already 6 months before they are releasing new
sdk that cannot be support on the "developing phone". No matter what
about "space" reason, there's always a work round to let developer to
enlong the ADP1's life for new SDK. It is fair to say "SDK developers
have no interest to continue with ADP1" but it is even fair to say
"SDK develpers should take care of ADP1 developers".

It is a matter if google/HTC people have this good will and if they
respect the ADP1 buyers investment.

Finger cross.
YZR





On Oct 30, 11:37 pm, Troy - Purple Oranges <t...@purpleoranges.com>
wrote:

> Michael,
>
> Most of your dev should be done within the emulator in the SDK.  With
> the new screen sizes, resolutions etc - testing shouldn't be done on
> the hardware device.
>
> We use the ADP1's mainly to demo to clients etc.
>
> If you need some help setting up emulators in the SDK let us know,
> there are a few helpful places online with good info.
>
> Cheers, Troy
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 03:58, Michael Marino
>
>
>
> <michael.marino...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Understandable, I just wanted a little clearer of a picture before I
> > went out and bought the ADP1. I want to do my part as a developer to
> > make sure that there was not some obvious known "end of life" date
> > that I was unaware of. I just want to make sure that my $400
> > investment is not to be outdated in a mere 3 months. If so, my taste
> > for the platform in general would be very damaged to the point I
> > wouldn't develop anymore(unless they sold the new phones for a 80% -
> > 90% discount for previous owners :P ). Thanks though.
>
> > Michael
>
> > --
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android-DevPhone-Updating" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to android-devp...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-devphone-u...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/android-devphone-updating?hl=en.

>
> Purple Oranges Pty Ltd (ACN 107 409 263)
> SYD +61-2-8231-5785 BNE +61-7-3018-2829 MEL +61-3-8682-0401

> New York +1-212-359-1678http://purpleoranges.com/

>
> Disclaimer - This email and any files transmitted with it should be considered without prejudice and are confidential
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> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
> except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of

> Purple Oranges Pty Ltd.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

To be clear... We have no idea if Android 2.0 will be made available
to the ADP1 platform.

What you are saying is that the ADP1 should be made unavailable to
developers because google wants to release an updated version of their
mobile operating system? Prohibiting the sale of a development only
device 6 months before release of updated software would just mean
less support from the development community.

The ADP1 is a development device, not a handset for general use. It
does work great as an everyday handset, and I do have an ADP1 that I
generally use as my primary handset. But, I don't expect to rely on
it. And I don't expect google to stifle development of their operating
system, or stop developers being able to test / demonstrate their
software - because their newest version of the operating system may
not be supported by a particular handset.

Regards,
Troy

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-devphone-updating?hl=en.

[Shawn Brown]

> What you are saying is that the ADP1 should be made unavailable to
> developers because google wants to release an updated version of their
> mobile operating system?

No, what was said was that the ADP1 should support current SDKs.

> The ADP1 is a development device

Well why is a "development device" that does not support the current
version of Android still sold.

Again, I don't believe anyone is saying stop selling a development
device but rather please sell a development device we can develop
with.

Shawn

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

There has been no word from HTC (who is responsible for the ADP1) as
to it's suitability to support Android 2.0 - so this whole discussion
could be moot.

I still don't see why HTC should have to stop selling a piece of
hardware simply because it may not support something that it was never
designed to support.

I think we can safely assume that should the ADP1 hardware not be
suitable for testing, HTC or somebody else will release replacement
development hardware. If their truly is market demand for a
development device, then somebody will step up and make one.

Development should be done within the SDK on your workstation. For
example - the ADP1 is only one device, running at one resolution.
Android 2.0 supports three different screen sizes - just one thing
that is impossible to reproduce on the ADP1 hardware.

Regards, Troy

[Felipe]

Final testing should be done in the emulator to test the different
hardware configurations ie. Screen sizes, but most of the development
should be done on a real device running your target android version.
You cannot get a feel how your app behaves unless you run it on a
device.

Yes, adp1 should no longer be sold if it cannot run the lattest and
greatest operating system. Otherwise we are throwing money to the
trash. If the next adp must be a motorola phone so be it.

On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Troy - Purple Oranges <tr...@purpleoranges.com

[Shawn Brown]

> Development should be done within the SDK on your workstation.

Well that assumes "Development" doesn't include bluetooth which can't
be done in an emulator. I don't see why bluetooth development isn't
in the "Development" category.

I don't know about the ADP1 but for HTC to say that for example the
myTouch "comes with comes with Bluetooth v2.0 with EDR. Supported
profiles GAP, RFCOMM, HFP, HSP, and A2DP" and then not to support that
...

So I would suspect that HTC would move to get donut on it's devices.
Again, what they said about ADP1 may be different but I'd think
myTouch buyers would give HTC an earful if the phone doesn't do what
the HTC sites says it will.

Of course, I may be wrong.

Shawn

[Shawn Brown]

> I don't know about the ADP1 but for HTC to say that for example the
> myTouch "comes with comes with Bluetooth v2.0 with EDR. Supported
> profiles GAP, RFCOMM, HFP, HSP, and A2DP" and then not to support that

They say that too for the G1.
http://www.htc.com/us/faqs.aspx?p_id=184&cat=0&id=70540&f=t

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think Android 1.6 supports RFCOMM.

Shawn

[yzr]

For my previous comment, I was just annoyed by the rumor that my ADP1
might not be able to play with 2.0

It is good to know that ADP1 was never designed for 2.0, it will be
even better to know earlier...when I paid for Android Market and
bought the ADP1 while I was exciting...
I bet I would not have done that if the ADP1 selling page says
clearly: " Please note that this phone is never designed for any new
featues after release 1.x, and consider it before you pay your money,
BTW, the 2.0 is already out", unfortunately that is not the case (I
just check my Android Market page for ADP1 1 minute ago), Isn't this a
natual sign that google says: this works for currently sdk.

Not trying to offend anyone here, simply dont want to advocate for HTC
for any good reasons mentioned above... if this turn out to be true,
that's why I simply want to pray.
Maybe goole/HTC has good will so we just waste our time here, that
would be the best :-)

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

Can we please stop perpetuating rumour and innuendo...

Google nor HTC have publically stated their position as to the
suitability of the ADP1 for the Android 2.0 release.

Until such time as an authority has made their position known, there
is no point getting an ulcer over something that may not even be the
case. Enjoy what your development device offers you now, and worry
about what it may or may not be able to do when we have a clear
understanding of what is going on.

Regards, Troy

[Ryck]

Some of us just want 2.0 on the dev phone to get some things working
that don't in earlier versions. Like WPA ENterprise.

[Dario Laverde]

@Troy: 

"testing shouldn't be done on the hardware device. We use the ADP1's mainly to demo..."

Well maybe you don't use the sensors, OpenGL, etc... or run into any emulator only issues - or more importantly issues that only manifest themselves on a device.

It's very important to test on a device before submitting to the market. Unbelievably there are some who submit to the market by testing only on the emulator which only adds to the "force close" issue (yes, that's a whole other story..).

Unlike commercially available devices, a dev device that comes with a dev-friendly version of the firmware (or at least the ability to install your own builds) makes it easier to debug the OS as well.

Maybe Google is planning to heavily subsidize the next developer phone for those who bought ADP1 in the last 6 months by giving them a significant discount on the next one.  How about a Droid for ADP2?  ;-)

-Dario

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

I am not advocating development only within the SDK, I would suggest
however for the most part of an applications life - that is where most
development will take place.

Yes, it will be frustrating if the ADP1 can not be upgraded to Android
2.0 - I would love access to the features that it offers.

What I am trying to remind people of - is that the ADP1 was never sold
as a device that can be upgraded to 2.0. There have been several posts
almost asserting that HTC / Google have been deceptive in their
practices by selling the ADP1, and as far as I can see this is simply
not the case.

You wouldn't buy a phone from Nokia today, then expect them to replace
it in a week if they released a new model. I worked for Nokia in Japan
for quite a while, and I know that they are models ahead in their
development - but I couldn't accuse them of being deceptive having a
phone on the market knowing that it can't be upgraded to their latest
software platform.

Troy

[Bronson]

I purchased an ADP1 phone about a week or two ago. I am surprised
there is no information regarding 2.0 on the *only* dev device.

I am not worried about buying a new device, just left confused about
communication. My only guess is the Droid launch. Lack of
information tends to fuel rumors.

-Bronson

On Nov 2, 2:32 pm, Troy - Purple Oranges <t...@purpleoranges.com>
wrote:

> New York +1-212-359-1678http://purpleoranges.com/

[Troy - Purple Oranges]

It does, and it's been my beef consistently - as developers we have
been treated a little like mushrooms.

But things have been getting better and JBQ is very active within this
group and always has been as helpful as permitted.

I am sure JBQ has seen this thread, and I would expect that as soon as
there is news - we will all know.

[Jean-Baptiste Queru]

I'm definitely following this thread, but indeed I can't say anything
on the possibility of having Eclair on ADP1.

You can be sure that I'll let you know as soon as I'm allowed to share
anything relevant with you.

JBQ

[yzr]

@Troy, you really don't need take it too personal, we appreciate your
information and this is only one discussion thread. I believe even HTC
would love to read all these discussion for information so please calm
down.

What I am trying to remind people of - is that

1.Google released Eclair, HTC is selling ADP1.
2."the ADP1 was never sold as a device that can be upgraded to 2.0"
could not be found on Android market page, maybe that info is helpful
to have?

But we may skip thoese, let's not forget the main concern of ADP1
users (especially the new ones) are that:
We wish to be able to play with some updated features that ADP1 still
can support and that's all, as already experssed in some of the
previous post. Isn't "cannot be upgraded to 2.0" too arbitratry?

and if you also wish to access these feature on ADP1 as you said, you
should be happy to hear them...I was a bit confused sorry.

BR
YZR

On Nov 3, 2:13 am, Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com> wrote:
> I'm definitely following this thread, but indeed I can't say anything
> on the possibility of having Eclair on ADP1.
>
> You can be sure that I'll let you know as soon as I'm allowed to share
> anything relevant with you.
>
> JBQ
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Troy - Purple Oranges
>
>
>
>
>
> <t...@purpleoranges.com> wrote:
> > It does, and it's been my beef consistently - as developers we have
> > been treated a little like mushrooms.
>
> > But things have been getting better and JBQ is very active within this
> > group and always has been as helpful as permitted.
>
> > I am sure JBQ has seen this thread, and I would expect that as soon as
> > there is news - we will all know.
>

> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/android-devphone-updating?hl=en.

>
> > Purple Oranges Pty Ltd (ACN 107 409 263)
> > SYD +61-2-8231-5785 BNE +61-7-3018-2829 MEL +61-3-8682-0401
> > New York +1-212-359-1678
> >http://purpleoranges.com/
>
> > Disclaimer - This email and any files transmitted with it should be considered without prejudice and are confidential
> > and contain privileged or copyright information. You must not present
> > this message to another party without gaining permission from the
> > sender. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy,
> > distribute or use this email or the information contained in it for any
> > purpose other than to notify us.
>
> > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
> > except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of
> > Purple Oranges Pty Ltd.
>
> > --
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android-DevPhone-Updating" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to android-devp...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-devphone-u...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/android-devphone-updating?hl=en.

>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
> Software Engineer, Android Open-Source Project, Google.
>
> Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
> will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further

> warning.- Hide quoted text -

[Ryck]

Is there a practice in place for bugs to be fixed rather than waiting
for the next big version? Some of us just want 2.0 on the dev phone
to get some things working that don't, like WPA Enterprise.

[Gunnar Forsgren]

At least if it cannot run within the RAM space of the ADP1 it would need a swapping scheme to /sdcard.

2009/11/3 Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com>

[Mike Baroukh]

Hi all.

I also hope taht Eclair will be on my G1, but just for the fun, I wanted
to share an article I read yesterday :
http://www.pointgphone.com/soiree-lg-parisienne-presentation-lg-gw620-9030
Sorry, it's in french but it says, at the end :

"
Sinon, pour l�anecdote, j�ai eu l�occasion d��changer quelques mots avec
le repr�sentant Google, pr�sent � cette soir�e et je lui ai notamment
demand� des informations sur Android 2.1. L�, surprise, tout sourire il
d�gaine son HTC G1 et me montre sa version d�Android : 2.1 (�videmment
vous aviez devin�). Il semble que toute l��quipe Google bossant sur
Android en soit �quip�e
"

Which means that there are already some 2.1 versions running on G1 ...

So maybe no 2.0, but 2.1 ?

Mike

Gunnar Forsgren a �crit :

> At least if it cannot run within the RAM space of the ADP1 it would
> need a swapping scheme to /sdcard.
>

> 2009/11/3 Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com <mailto:j...@android.com>>

>
> I'm definitely following this thread, but indeed I can't say anything
> on the possibility of having Eclair on ADP1.
>
> You can be sure that I'll let you know as soon as I'm allowed to share
> anything relevant with you.
>
> JBQ
>
>
>

[Jean-Baptiste Queru]

Please do not reach any conclusions. What a few engineers can do with
experimental devices in a lab doesn't necessarily translate into
solutions that are practical for the real world. Progress can't happen
without research, but not all research results in progress.

JBQ

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Mike Baroukh <mi...@baroukh.com> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I also hope taht Eclair will be on my G1, but just for the fun, I wanted
> to share an article I read yesterday :
> http://www.pointgphone.com/soiree-lg-parisienne-presentation-lg-gw620-9030
> Sorry, it's in french but it says, at the end :
>
> "

> Sinon, pour l’anecdote, j’ai eu l’occasion d’échanger quelques mots avec
> le représentant Google, présent à cette soirée et je lui ai notamment
> demandé des informations sur Android 2.1. Là, surprise, tout sourire il
> dégaine son HTC G1 et me montre sa version d’Android : 2.1 (évidemment
> vous aviez deviné). Il semble que toute l’équipe Google bossant sur
> Android en soit équipée

> "
>
> Which means that there are already some 2.1 versions running on G1 ...
>
> So maybe no 2.0, but 2.1 ?
>
> Mike
>

> Gunnar Forsgren a écrit :

>> At least if it cannot run within the RAM space of the ADP1 it would
>> need a swapping scheme to /sdcard.
>>
>> 2009/11/3 Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com <mailto:j...@android.com>>
>>
>>     I'm definitely following this thread, but indeed I can't say anything
>>     on the possibility of having Eclair on ADP1.
>>
>>     You can be sure that I'll let you know as soon as I'm allowed to share
>>     anything relevant with you.
>>
>>     JBQ
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Android-DevPhone-Updating" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
>> android-devp...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> android-devphone-u...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/android-devphone-updating?hl=en.
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android-DevPhone-Updating" group.
> To post to this group, send email to android-devp...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-devphone-u...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-devphone-updating?hl=en.
>
>
>

[lbcoder]

-- 2."the ADP1 was never sold as a device that can be upgraded to 2.0"
-- could not be found on Android market page, maybe that info is
helpful
-- to have?

The relevant quote is actually "Modify and rebuild the Android
operating system, and flash it onto a phone." -- I would say that that
DEFINITELY includes being able to build and install the latest version
and expect it to be able to work full featured.

Whether HTC does or does not provide a full system image, they should
*definitely* provide updated drivers or driver source that can be used
to actually build a fully functional android system.

[Shawn Brown]

Hi,

Sorry to bring up old news ...

> There have been several posts
> almost asserting that HTC / Google have been deceptive in their
> practices by selling the ADP1

Yeah, I think they are being dishonest.

The Magic and MyTouch (and by all accounts the IO too) should have
bluetooth that supports RFCOMM. That is what HTC says about what
their handsets offer.

Then they never make RFCOMM available even though they can.

I think HTC is not honest about it's products and that google is
turning a blind eye because, well they want to sell lots of their new
handsets and if that's the only way to get 2.0, then they can sell
more.

They have been and still are deceptive in their practices.

Their phones do not do what they claim they will. Are you saying that
is honest? How is that not dishonest. Maybe you are not an English
native speaker but that is certainly dishonest in most dictionaries.

Claim - "This phone will do X"
Reality - It does not
----------------------------
dishonest

[Ryan Chan]

On 1月6日, 下午5時46分, Shawn Brown <big.coffee.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,

> Yeah, I think they are being dishonest.
>

Forget about ADP1, no one in Google care about it now.

(even JBQ has been disappeared for quite a while now)

[sime]

> >  Hi,
> > Yeah, I think they are being dishonest.
>
> Forget about ADP1, no one in Google care about it now.
>
> (even JBQ has been disappeared for quite a while now)

Maybe, just maybe Android 2.1 will be made available to the ADP1? I
have hope because there was no official word for Android 2.0.

Alternatively the Nexus One handset might become the ADP3. My guess is
that Google put all resources on the development of the Nexus One and
Android 2.x, but that is just speculation.