When is ego not ego?
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empty2
Apr 19, 2008, 4:31:31 AM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
It would seem that the moment any of us touch the keyboard to say
something here, ego is at work, whether it's a guru ego, seeker ego,
a 'knowing', intellectual or emotional ego, a friendly or downright
competitive ego, or an ego just hungry for entertainment.
On the other hand, trees grow, fire burns, the sun, the stars and
planets shine, the earth revolves and people (egos) think and speak, -
all natural functions.
So what, if anything, is the difference here?
Perhaps the degree of identification with the idea of self as ego, or
something else?
something here, ego is at work, whether it's a guru ego, seeker ego,
a 'knowing', intellectual or emotional ego, a friendly or downright
competitive ego, or an ego just hungry for entertainment.
On the other hand, trees grow, fire burns, the sun, the stars and
planets shine, the earth revolves and people (egos) think and speak, -
all natural functions.
So what, if anything, is the difference here?
Perhaps the degree of identification with the idea of self as ego, or
something else?
empty2
Apr 19, 2008, 11:03:40 AM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
OK, add to that, disciple ego, believer ego, religious/spiritual
junkie ego, and seeker-after-a-bit-of-peace-in-life ego.
Oh, and the monitoring ego, (:)
junkie ego, and seeker-after-a-bit-of-peace-in-life ego.
Oh, and the monitoring ego, (:)
Mahakali
Apr 19, 2008, 11:32:03 AM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hi Empty,
If I were to agree with you (i.e. perhaps it is the degree of
identification with the idea of self as ego, or, maybe, it is
something else), would you feel that my reaction was "natural" or
"egotic"?
Were I to disagree with you and start an argument against your
argument, then, would you agree with me that such an act could only
have been dictated by the ego?
Imho, Ego (not the one useful for practical purposes i.e. preferencies
- I like tea instead of coffee, for example) is the source of unrest,
conflicts and suffering.
Kali
If I were to agree with you (i.e. perhaps it is the degree of
identification with the idea of self as ego, or, maybe, it is
something else), would you feel that my reaction was "natural" or
"egotic"?
Were I to disagree with you and start an argument against your
argument, then, would you agree with me that such an act could only
have been dictated by the ego?
Imho, Ego (not the one useful for practical purposes i.e. preferencies
- I like tea instead of coffee, for example) is the source of unrest,
conflicts and suffering.
Kali
godszen
Apr 19, 2008, 7:41:31 PM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
ego is the story
empty2
Apr 19, 2008, 10:40:44 PM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hi Kali,
Thanks for your response. I think you've hit the nail on the head
regarding the point of discussion here. On the personal, individual
level we tend to say it is ego acting, but in the total scheme of
things it is just part and parcel of the process of nature.
It's a bit like the argument over 'destiny'. Do we have the power to
influence our fate, or is it already determined? Short of total
spontaneity, ego, as the consciousness of individuality, appears to be
involved in any and every action we undertake, but in the big picture
there is no good or bad or right and wrong.
Ego makes the bed it lies in. To whatever extent it identifies with
some aspect of personality it is always vulnerable because it seems
bound to encounter opposition or frustration somewhere along the line,
and then it hurts.
Should we then be silent, as godzen recommends but never quite
achieves?
In the totality of things there is only one 'doer'. When we speak or
think, is it That or our ego?
Perhaps the difference lies in the degree of preference we have for
the outcome to be as we desire and our level of attachment to that.
Perhaps this is where attachment/detachment really lies.
In the Bhagavad Gita it is stated that everyone acts according to
their nature, what can restraint do? But that desire and aversion are
the stumbling blocks. Action alone is no problem, but looking for
results is.
"Your right (way) is to work (act) only, but never to the fruit
thereof".
On the other hand, how do we know if we are right or wrong? To act/
speak or not to? To think too much about this ends up like a dog
chasing its tail. Whenever we act, the answer becomes obvious in the
extent to which we are affected by the outcome, the extent to which we
feel good or bad, which indicates the degree to which we are attached.
In this repect the whole exercise is a learning process in itself. Do
we play it safe (ego-wise) or give it a go?
I remember a chillum-smoking back-street sage in Calcutta years ago
saying "Life's a gamble, boss!"
Every time I post on AdvaitaNow there's a little voice (probably
godzen, - and what's happened to Rodger?) wondering if someone's going
to call my bluff and say it's all B.S. !
> > something else?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for your response. I think you've hit the nail on the head
regarding the point of discussion here. On the personal, individual
level we tend to say it is ego acting, but in the total scheme of
things it is just part and parcel of the process of nature.
It's a bit like the argument over 'destiny'. Do we have the power to
influence our fate, or is it already determined? Short of total
spontaneity, ego, as the consciousness of individuality, appears to be
involved in any and every action we undertake, but in the big picture
there is no good or bad or right and wrong.
Ego makes the bed it lies in. To whatever extent it identifies with
some aspect of personality it is always vulnerable because it seems
bound to encounter opposition or frustration somewhere along the line,
and then it hurts.
Should we then be silent, as godzen recommends but never quite
achieves?
In the totality of things there is only one 'doer'. When we speak or
think, is it That or our ego?
Perhaps the difference lies in the degree of preference we have for
the outcome to be as we desire and our level of attachment to that.
Perhaps this is where attachment/detachment really lies.
In the Bhagavad Gita it is stated that everyone acts according to
their nature, what can restraint do? But that desire and aversion are
the stumbling blocks. Action alone is no problem, but looking for
results is.
"Your right (way) is to work (act) only, but never to the fruit
thereof".
On the other hand, how do we know if we are right or wrong? To act/
speak or not to? To think too much about this ends up like a dog
chasing its tail. Whenever we act, the answer becomes obvious in the
extent to which we are affected by the outcome, the extent to which we
feel good or bad, which indicates the degree to which we are attached.
In this repect the whole exercise is a learning process in itself. Do
we play it safe (ego-wise) or give it a go?
I remember a chillum-smoking back-street sage in Calcutta years ago
saying "Life's a gamble, boss!"
Every time I post on AdvaitaNow there's a little voice (probably
godzen, - and what's happened to Rodger?) wondering if someone's going
to call my bluff and say it's all B.S. !
>
> - Show quoted text -
empty2
Apr 19, 2008, 10:52:10 PM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
PS. At the risk of having a major disagreement here.......I like
coffee in the morning but tea after that.
(:)
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
coffee in the morning but tea after that.
(:)
empty2
Apr 19, 2008, 11:23:59 PM4/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
PS2. If you came to visit and I said sorry there's no tea, you'll have
to have coffee, how would you feel? A little pissed off perhaps?
Ah,ego!
to have coffee, how would you feel? A little pissed off perhaps?
Ah,ego!
Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
Apr 20, 2008, 12:26:20 AM4/20/08
to Advai...@googlegroups.com
empty2 wrote:
Hi Kali, Thanks for your response. I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding the point of discussion here. On the personal, individual level we tend to say it is ego acting, but in the total scheme of things it is just part and parcel of the process of nature.
The sense of a
person and thus the sense of a personal/individual level as seemingly
contrasted to the total schema......
.....is also part of the total scheme of things.
.....is also part of the total scheme of things.
It's a bit like the argument over 'destiny'. Do we have the power to influence our fate, or is it already determined? Short of total spontaneity, ego, as the consciousness of individuality, appears to be involved in any and every action we undertake,
Appears to be
involved........yes.
The rooster, suffers the whole night........agonizing whether he will get up at the right time at dawn to crow the sun to rise.
The suffering for the rooster is very real, for he has ample experiential evidence of the sun obeying his regal commands
at each dawn.
And thus the rooster fears an inter-galactic catastrophe, if he is lax in discharging his cosmic responsibilities.
Quite irrespective of the rooster's conclusions no doubt based on his hard experiential data.....
....the earth dips in relation to the sun to create an illusion of a rising sun.
The rooster, suffers the whole night........agonizing whether he will get up at the right time at dawn to crow the sun to rise.
The suffering for the rooster is very real, for he has ample experiential evidence of the sun obeying his regal commands
at each dawn.
And thus the rooster fears an inter-galactic catastrophe, if he is lax in discharging his cosmic responsibilities.
Quite irrespective of the rooster's conclusions no doubt based on his hard experiential data.....
....the earth dips in relation to the sun to create an illusion of a rising sun.
but in the big picture there is no good or bad or right and wrong.
In the big picture,
there is no big picture.
Ego makes the bed it lies in. To whatever extent it identifies with some aspect of personality it is always vulnerable because it seems bound to encounter opposition or frustration somewhere along the line, and then it hurts. Should we then be silent, as godzen recommends but never quite achieves?
The sense of a
should is the disturbance(so to say).
For it apriori assumes that there is "we" which has an individuated separative existence to enjoy the possibility of choice and exercising that choice.
Aka, the choice of to be silent or otherwise.
Incidentally silence is the not the absence of thought, speech or action.
For it apriori assumes that there is "we" which has an individuated separative existence to enjoy the possibility of choice and exercising that choice.
Aka, the choice of to be silent or otherwise.
Incidentally silence is the not the absence of thought, speech or action.
In the totality of things there is only one 'doer'.
Is there any doer,
in the absence of any doing?
When we speak or think, is it That or our ego? Perhaps the difference lies in the degree of preference we have for the outcome to be as we desire and our level of attachment to that. Perhaps this is where attachment/detachment really lies. In the Bhagavad Gita it is stated that everyone acts according to their nature, what can restraint do? But that desire and aversion are the stumbling blocks. Action alone is no problem, but looking for results is.
Action if it moves
from mentation, is a physical actualization of thought.
Looking for results is an association with that actualization, again in the form of thought.
Frustration/elation (again thought) are further associated consequences with that actualization.
Seeking not to seek results, aka seeking to attain nishkama karma(as if this is not yet another sought result)
is once again more baloney of thought.
Looking for results is an association with that actualization, again in the form of thought.
Frustration/elation (again thought) are further associated consequences with that actualization.
Seeking not to seek results, aka seeking to attain nishkama karma(as if this is not yet another sought result)
is once again more baloney of thought.
"Your right (way) is to work (act) only, but never to the fruit thereof".
Neither do you have
a right.
Nor a left.
:-)
Nor a left.
:-)
On the other hand, how do we know if we are right or wrong? To act/ speak or not to? To think too much about this ends up like a dog chasing its tail. Whenever we act, the answer becomes obvious in the extent to which we are affected by the outcome, the extent to which we feel good or bad, which indicates the degree to which we are attached.
Sure.
But how does it prove that the undertaken act was right or wrong?
Sure, it is possible to view an undertaken act as successful or failure, whether a apriori set of objectives was achieved or not.
But right/wrong?
Unless success is equated to right and vice versa.(which is normally the case)
The arriving stimulus, the resulting action as a response through an animate/inanimate vehicle, fashioned by the innate-conditioning-in-the-moment of that vehicle, the resultant consequences of the unfolding action acting as fresh stimulus, invoking the sense of frustration/elation, along with the consequential pride/depression......et al......
.....nuances of the movement..... as the moment.
Moment to moment to moment.
But how does it prove that the undertaken act was right or wrong?
Sure, it is possible to view an undertaken act as successful or failure, whether a apriori set of objectives was achieved or not.
But right/wrong?
Unless success is equated to right and vice versa.(which is normally the case)
The arriving stimulus, the resulting action as a response through an animate/inanimate vehicle, fashioned by the innate-conditioning-in-the-moment of that vehicle, the resultant consequences of the unfolding action acting as fresh stimulus, invoking the sense of frustration/elation, along with the consequential pride/depression......et al......
.....nuances of the movement..... as the moment.
Moment to moment to moment.
In this repect the whole exercise is a learning process in itself. Do we play it safe (ego-wise) or give it a go?
The rooster's agony.
I remember a chillum-smoking back-street sage in Calcutta years ago saying "Life's a gamble, boss!"
Chillum fashioned
baloney.
:-)
:-)
Every time I post on AdvaitaNow there's a little voice (probably godzen, - and what's happened to Rodger?) wondering if someone's going to call my bluff and say it's all B.S. !
The total
schema......being the shitting of the divine bull....
.....in the schema.....can there be any inter-alia differentiation?
.....in the schema.....can there be any inter-alia differentiation?
Anandanand
Apr 20, 2008, 12:28:24 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
I am into full agreement there, I two have cofee in the morning and
three thereafter (some spelling mistakes)
Anandanand
three thereafter (some spelling mistakes)
Anandanand
Gary
Apr 20, 2008, 1:48:47 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Said it better than I.
That said, once the individual is seen as a fabrication, you can once
again use I, post and whatever without the need to apologize. Of
course, this is also just another cosmic happening. How could it be
otherwise.
Good posts above and even a better clarification.. thanks all.
On Apr 19, 9:26 pm, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
That said, once the individual is seen as a fabrication, you can once
again use I, post and whatever without the need to apologize. Of
course, this is also just another cosmic happening. How could it be
otherwise.
Good posts above and even a better clarification.. thanks all.
On Apr 19, 9:26 pm, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 2:11:22 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Gamble or not, it feels like I hit the jackpot there, seeing it all
pour out.....
Thanks, Sandeep.
> > .....in the schema.....can there be any inter-alia differentiation?- Hide quoted text -
pour out.....
Thanks, Sandeep.
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 7:18:54 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Just before I return to work and the existence of a stressed out
rooster believing it has responsibilities, can I just check what you
are saying here, Sandeep.......
So it's all just a flowing river of (divine) shit from moment to
moment to moment, and the ego that thinks it's shovelling it uphill/
stream is actually only shit itself, from moment to moment to moment.
What I'm wondering is, is there a watcher or is that just another load
of shit, in which case is it moving forward or backward or simply
standing still?
Ok, so the idea of movement or standing still is just more thought
baloney and another form of shit, in which case there's nowhere left
to stand (unless you prefer to be up to your neck in shit). Not that
that's a problem, but to cheekily paraphrase Ram, it's about as empty
as it gets.
(:)
On Apr 20, 11:26 am, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
rooster believing it has responsibilities, can I just check what you
are saying here, Sandeep.......
So it's all just a flowing river of (divine) shit from moment to
moment to moment, and the ego that thinks it's shovelling it uphill/
stream is actually only shit itself, from moment to moment to moment.
What I'm wondering is, is there a watcher or is that just another load
of shit, in which case is it moving forward or backward or simply
standing still?
Ok, so the idea of movement or standing still is just more thought
baloney and another form of shit, in which case there's nowhere left
to stand (unless you prefer to be up to your neck in shit). Not that
that's a problem, but to cheekily paraphrase Ram, it's about as empty
as it gets.
(:)
On Apr 20, 11:26 am, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 7:55:30 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hi Empty
let me put my two cents in...
If holy s*** was standing still, then, you would not realize or know
that such a thing would even exist;
it is only when it (holy s***) is in movement/changes that you
(witness) can become aware of what is eternal, permanent and
unchangeable which is Self. Once you get the strong convinction of
that (as I am practising), then, ego will dissolve into Self. I got it
by reading Nisargadatta.
Enjoy your week at work!
Kali
> > .....in the schema.....can there be any inter-alia differentiation?- Hide quoted text -
let me put my two cents in...
If holy s*** was standing still, then, you would not realize or know
that such a thing would even exist;
it is only when it (holy s***) is in movement/changes that you
(witness) can become aware of what is eternal, permanent and
unchangeable which is Self. Once you get the strong convinction of
that (as I am practising), then, ego will dissolve into Self. I got it
by reading Nisargadatta.
Enjoy your week at work!
Kali
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 8:25:48 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
I'm not sure after listening to Sandeep, said the rooster.....
Is there a difference between standing still and movement?
Tea or coffee, maybe?
And if the ego is already in deep shit anyway......sorry, dissolved
into the self, where's the movement or lack of movement?
Have a good week too.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Is there a difference between standing still and movement?
Tea or coffee, maybe?
And if the ego is already in deep shit anyway......sorry, dissolved
into the self, where's the movement or lack of movement?
Have a good week too.
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 8:28:41 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
I need to clarify that the "I" (witness) that becomes aware of the
movement/changes..is impersonal Consciousness....
In other words is it all you ...like Rodger used to say...: where is
he?
Kali
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
movement/changes..is impersonal Consciousness....
In other words is it all you ...like Rodger used to say...: where is
he?
Kali
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 8:40:05 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
empty2 wrote:
> I'm not sure after listening to Sandeep, said the rooster.....
>
> Is there a difference between standing still and movement?
Yes. If things were still, then, you would not be aware of them
> I'm not sure after listening to Sandeep, said the rooster.....
>
> Is there a difference between standing still and movement?
because there would not be any difference. It is only when that little
or big rush of energy that goes through your body and causes you to
wake up in the morning, that you awaken and the thought "I Am" awakens
too...that energy is movement that brings change.
> Tea or coffee, maybe?
Tea or coffee is a preference and not a movement...but there could be
a movement in thinking and, therefore, I can change my mind and decide
to have coffee instead of tea..LOL!
> And if the ego is already in deep shit anyway......sorry, dissolved
> into the self, where's the movement or lack of movement?
there is none there to say, speak, think or worry about it because
everything is in perfect place and in perfect order with the grand
play of the universe(s), fully in accordance with its/their cosmic
laws...(I've taken this from Ramesh).
In other words, there is no movement because the "idea" of movement is
something we have created in the illusory world, all there is - and
has always been the case - is a sense of awareness or pure Awareness.
Best wishes!
Kali
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 8:58:58 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
According to my limited understanding, Sri Nisargadatta lables the
supreme (impersonal) Consciousness as Pure Awareness minus the
individualised (personalised) consciousness that exists as the witness
of change but also only in tandem with change itself.
Becoming aware of its existence as the witness of all and no longer
entwined with illusory change as ego, it has nothing to say or be or
do. As Nisargadatta says somewhere, that I- witness-consciousness is
like a hole in the roof through which the light of Awareness enters
and illuminates all, but in reality it is just an empty space with
light, emptiness or awareness on both sides and in the middle, ie. non-
existent.
Whether 'I' am just an illusion or full of shit remains to be seen.
Clear as mud? And indeed, where is Rodger?
supreme (impersonal) Consciousness as Pure Awareness minus the
individualised (personalised) consciousness that exists as the witness
of change but also only in tandem with change itself.
Becoming aware of its existence as the witness of all and no longer
entwined with illusory change as ego, it has nothing to say or be or
do. As Nisargadatta says somewhere, that I- witness-consciousness is
like a hole in the roof through which the light of Awareness enters
and illuminates all, but in reality it is just an empty space with
light, emptiness or awareness on both sides and in the middle, ie. non-
existent.
Whether 'I' am just an illusion or full of shit remains to be seen.
Clear as mud? And indeed, where is Rodger?
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 9:19:28 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
That emptyness is full of nothingness or potential. It cannot be seen,
touched, experienced..it can only be recognized..and then, it is up to
the individual to pursue a path leading him/her to Self realization or
decide to go back and experience the world as it is with its material
valued and illusions before taking the plunge again into (so-called)
spirituality...
At times, I just have moments I want to drop everything and...
Bye bye!
Kali
touched, experienced..it can only be recognized..and then, it is up to
the individual to pursue a path leading him/her to Self realization or
decide to go back and experience the world as it is with its material
valued and illusions before taking the plunge again into (so-called)
spirituality...
At times, I just have moments I want to drop everything and...
Bye bye!
Kali
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 9:26:36 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Sorry, I said that without reading your latest post. It looks like
we're in agreement except in regard to making up our minds whether to
have tea or coffee!
Oops, there's another post.......
......exactly!
> At times, I just have moments I want to drop everything and...
....have a cup of tea..........or was that coffee?
(:)
we're in agreement except in regard to making up our minds whether to
have tea or coffee!
Oops, there's another post.......
......exactly!
> At times, I just have moments I want to drop everything and...
(:)
Message has been deleted
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 9:34:39 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Since I have been in England, my choice has swiftly moved from
drinking coffee to tea... ;-)
Kali
drinking coffee to tea... ;-)
Kali
Anandanand
Apr 20, 2008, 9:43:40 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
I would like to put in my whatever it is
> At times, I just have moments I want to drop everything and...
More the things change the more they remain the same. (Roger)
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 9:44:25 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
As a born and brought up Brit or Pom as we say in Australia, I must
say a good cup of tea is one of the finest of illusions, well worth
having an 'I' for and could well be the purpose of existig at all.
> > > > - Show quoted- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
say a good cup of tea is one of the finest of illusions, well worth
having an 'I' for and could well be the purpose of existig at all.
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 9:48:38 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
empty2 wrote:
> .....I must
tea!
:-)
> > > > > > > > > saying "Life's a gamble, boss!"- Hide quoted text -
> .....I must
> say a good cup of tea is one of the finest of illusions, well worth
> having an 'I' for and could well be the purpose of existig at all.
As a born and brought up Italian, this sounds much more like my cap of
> having an 'I' for and could well be the purpose of existig at all.
tea!
:-)
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 9:48:59 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Anandanand,
Would Sandeep say "If the sh** sticks, wear it"?
Would Sandeep say "If the sh** sticks, wear it"?
empty2
Apr 20, 2008, 10:03:48 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Kali,
LOL!
Well the earth here has dipped so far it's lost the sun again and it's
time to bid goodnight.
After all, tomorrow I have to crow, but one of these days I'm just
going to drop everything and.......
All the best for now, and thanks for the entertainment, all!
> > > > > > > > > Moment to- Hide quoted text -
LOL!
Well the earth here has dipped so far it's lost the sun again and it's
time to bid goodnight.
After all, tomorrow I have to crow, but one of these days I'm just
going to drop everything and.......
All the best for now, and thanks for the entertainment, all!
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 10:23:17 AM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hi Empty
go to sleep...enjoy your dream...but don't drop everything pleeease!
This communication has been fun...
Kali
> > > > > > > > > > But right/wrong?- Hide quoted text -
go to sleep...enjoy your dream...but don't drop everything pleeease!
This communication has been fun...
Kali
Richard
Apr 20, 2008, 12:12:06 PM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
If you miss Rodger then you make a mockery of his words.
Coffee has antioxidant qualities but too much cafein can stress the
body. And you can take that from me (but be sure to return it).
As to ego, the old Zen question is, do you think/act as a human having
a spiritual experience or spirit having a human experience?
Who is typing these words?
Mahakali
Apr 20, 2008, 12:32:38 PM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hi Richard...I hope you are well..
I was only "stealing" his line i.e. "it is all you"...
I have too much respect for Rodger to make a mockery of his words..
Any news from him?
Kali
I was only "stealing" his line i.e. "it is all you"...
I have too much respect for Rodger to make a mockery of his words..
Any news from him?
Kali
Anandanand
Apr 20, 2008, 12:50:13 PM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
What if he says, and what if he doesn't.
What if it sticks, and what if it doesn't.
YOU think you have a choice? I don't think you do.(think I mean, not
choice)
What if the sun rises and what if the rooster waits for it.
What if the ego talks, and what if it doesn't.
What if it sticks, and what if it doesn't.
YOU think you have a choice? I don't think you do.(think I mean, not
choice)
What if the sun rises and what if the rooster waits for it.
What if the ego talks, and what if it doesn't.
Anandanand
Apr 20, 2008, 12:52:43 PM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hi Richard,
I was quoting him. The simpler you make it the more lovely it becomes.
Anandanand
I was quoting him. The simpler you make it the more lovely it becomes.
Anandanand
Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
Apr 20, 2008, 2:02:55 PM4/20/08
to Advai...@googlegroups.com
empty2 wrote:
Just before I return to work and the existence of a stressed out rooster believing it has responsibilities, can I just check what you are saying here, Sandeep....... So it's all just a flowing river of (divine) shit from moment to moment to moment, and the ego that thinks it's shovelling it uphill/ stream is actually only shit itself, from moment to moment to moment.
--------
Where else could ego make a stand.
The sense of you as a dreamt-up object, looking, observing, participating in the ado of your last night sleep-dream drama.......was a constituent character of the same drama.
------
Where else could ego make a stand.
The sense of you as a dreamt-up object, looking, observing, participating in the ado of your last night sleep-dream drama.......was a constituent character of the same drama.
------
What I'm wondering is, is there a watcher or is that just another load of shit, in which case is it moving forward or backward or simply standing still?
---------
So long the question, "is there a watcher"..........it's all within the same gestalt.
Thought can only dance within the dance floor that it has itself created.
Within the dance floor there is the forward jig, there is the backward flip
and there is the break to catch a beer.
-------
So long the question, "is there a watcher"..........it's all within the same gestalt.
Thought can only dance within the dance floor that it has itself created.
Within the dance floor there is the forward jig, there is the backward flip
and there is the break to catch a beer.
-------
Ok, so the idea of movement or standing still is just more thought baloney and another form of shit, in which case there's nowhere left to stand
Aha.
Nowhere <=> now here.
In the now and here could there be even a cognition of the "now and here", let alone make a stand.
Nowhere <=> now here.
In the now and here could there be even a cognition of the "now and here", let alone make a stand.
(unless you prefer to be up to your neck in shit). Not that that's a problem, but to cheekily paraphrase Ram, it's about as empty as it gets. (:)
Sure it's all
emptiness.
Even when the boss is signing your pink slip due to the sub-prime mortgage crisis.
And coming home to see that your spouse has sold the house and left after cleaning up the joint savings account
and leaving behind for you, Nagarjuna's treatise on Shunayata.
Even when the boss is signing your pink slip due to the sub-prime mortgage crisis.
And coming home to see that your spouse has sold the house and left after cleaning up the joint savings account
and leaving behind for you, Nagarjuna's treatise on Shunayata.
Richard
Apr 20, 2008, 10:05:14 PM4/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
On Apr 20, 12:32 pm, Mahakali <Maha.Ka...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi Richard...I hope you are well..
>
> I was only "stealing" his line i.e. "it is all you"...
>
> I have too much respect for Rodger to make a mockery of his words..
>
> Any news from him?
>
> Kali
>
What I said in the post was, Anyone who MISSES Rodger makes a mockery
of his words, because he has told us he is everywhere, it's all he
(which is we), therefore where can he go? (as a dying Ramana asked).
empty2
Apr 21, 2008, 8:08:31 AM4/21/08
to AdvaitaNow
Very nice 'one', Sandeep, even if, as you say, two appears to be
screaming in one's face.
Thanks again.
Anandanand, why is it that i feel your land is my birthright too? Must
be the tea.
Sitting in a tiny tea-shop in a tiny brown village perched on the
dusty green hillside in the lazy Indian afternoon looking out over the
valley with the River Beas skipping over the rocks below; all is quiet
but for the somnulent drone of a beautiful raga softly pervading the
air from All-India radio; all alone but for the tea-shop wallah dozing
in the corner behind the blackened kettles........all is still. A lone
sadhu appears on the sunny path, has words with the owner, ties a knot
in his cloth and wanders on; I'm not allowed to pay.
It was many years ago, yet like Ram's story, I half-expect to wake up
from this other reverie and still be there, raising the glass to take
another sip of that sweet and milky tea.........
On Apr 21, 1:02 am, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
screaming in one's face.
Thanks again.
Anandanand, why is it that i feel your land is my birthright too? Must
be the tea.
Sitting in a tiny tea-shop in a tiny brown village perched on the
dusty green hillside in the lazy Indian afternoon looking out over the
valley with the River Beas skipping over the rocks below; all is quiet
but for the somnulent drone of a beautiful raga softly pervading the
air from All-India radio; all alone but for the tea-shop wallah dozing
in the corner behind the blackened kettles........all is still. A lone
sadhu appears on the sunny path, has words with the owner, ties a knot
in his cloth and wanders on; I'm not allowed to pay.
It was many years ago, yet like Ram's story, I half-expect to wake up
from this other reverie and still be there, raising the glass to take
another sip of that sweet and milky tea.........
On Apr 21, 1:02 am, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
Anandanand
Apr 21, 2008, 8:28:18 AM4/21/08
to AdvaitaNow
On Apr 21, 5:08 pm, empty2 <pldre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anandanand, why is it that i feel your land is my birthright too? Must
> be the tea.
>
> Sitting in a tiny tea-shop in a tiny brown village perched on the
> dusty green hillside in the lazy Indian afternoon looking out over the
> valley with the River Beas skipping over the rocks below; all is quiet
> but for the somnulent drone of a beautiful raga softly pervading the
> air from All-India radio; all alone but for the tea-shop wallah dozing
> in the corner behind the blackened kettles........all is still. A lone
> sadhu appears on the sunny path, has words with the owner, ties a knot
> in his cloth and wanders on; I'm not allowed to pay.
shit all along the banks, Beas Nala is full of plastic bags of all
colors so you don't get to see the snow till the end of the land. Some
military establishment like Ranikhet have retained the beauty.
Ten years back I used to go to the himalayas every year, now I don't
feel like going there. I am glad I am able to reduce that much load on
the fragile environment and limited resources. Hill folk are still the
same, but marginalized by capitalist. So much for the progress.
Nostalgia is not what is used to be, as some one said.
(I got a bit sentimental, but I just can't see the himalayas this way)
empty2
Apr 21, 2008, 12:16:55 PM4/21/08
to AdvaitaNow
If that's the 'real' shit and not the holy bull shit we were speaking
of yesterday, though doubtless they're one and the same if the looker
is likewise..........it sounds sad.
Oh for the days without a plastic bag in sight, when the clay cup
would be ground back into the earth, and the leaf plates eaten by the
cows whose shit I would like to believe is still regarded as holy!
I felt the same about Kathmandu when I returned there after a gap of
15 years, - terrible pollution, concrete sprawl and piles of rubbish
everywhere, but somehow after a couple of days it was still the same
place I knew before.
Mud and compost, great for the lotus (Sandeep), but the plastic's
enough to make you want to just give up, drop everything and.....
of yesterday, though doubtless they're one and the same if the looker
is likewise..........it sounds sad.
Oh for the days without a plastic bag in sight, when the clay cup
would be ground back into the earth, and the leaf plates eaten by the
cows whose shit I would like to believe is still regarded as holy!
I felt the same about Kathmandu when I returned there after a gap of
15 years, - terrible pollution, concrete sprawl and piles of rubbish
everywhere, but somehow after a couple of days it was still the same
place I knew before.
Mud and compost, great for the lotus (Sandeep), but the plastic's
enough to make you want to just give up, drop everything and.....
Gary
Apr 22, 2008, 12:32:34 AM4/22/08
to AdvaitaNow
Rodger seems to drop out for a month every six months and this is his
month to drop out. It is rumored that he is actually a droid and must
return to the mother ship for recharging, but I swear that I don't
really believe this. I believe that he is probably recharging
somewhere here..on earth.
On Apr 20, 5:58 am, empty2 <pldre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> According to my limited understanding, Sri Nisargadatta lables the
> supreme (impersonal) Consciousness as Pure Awareness minus the
> individualised (personalised) consciousness that exists as the witness
> of change but also only in tandem with change itself.
>
> Becoming aware of its existence as the witness of all and no longer
> entwined with illusory change as ego, it has nothing to say or be or
> do. As Nisargadatta says somewhere, that I- witness-consciousness is
> like a hole in the roof through which the light of Awareness enters
> and illuminates all, but in reality it is just an empty space with
> light, emptiness or awareness on both sides and in the middle, ie. non-
> existent.
>
> Whether 'I' am just an illusion or full of shit remains to be seen.
>
> Clear as mud? And indeed, where isRodger?
>
> On Apr 20, 7:28 pm, Mahakali <Maha.Ka...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I need to clarify that the "I" (witness) that becomes aware of the
> > movement/changes..is impersonal Consciousness....
>
> > In other words is it all you ...likeRodgerused to say...: where is
> > > > > > godzen, - and what's happened toRodger?) wondering if someone's going
month to drop out. It is rumored that he is actually a droid and must
return to the mother ship for recharging, but I swear that I don't
really believe this. I believe that he is probably recharging
somewhere here..on earth.
On Apr 20, 5:58 am, empty2 <pldre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> According to my limited understanding, Sri Nisargadatta lables the
> supreme (impersonal) Consciousness as Pure Awareness minus the
> individualised (personalised) consciousness that exists as the witness
> of change but also only in tandem with change itself.
>
> Becoming aware of its existence as the witness of all and no longer
> entwined with illusory change as ego, it has nothing to say or be or
> do. As Nisargadatta says somewhere, that I- witness-consciousness is
> like a hole in the roof through which the light of Awareness enters
> and illuminates all, but in reality it is just an empty space with
> light, emptiness or awareness on both sides and in the middle, ie. non-
> existent.
>
> Whether 'I' am just an illusion or full of shit remains to be seen.
>
> Clear as mud? And indeed, where isRodger?
>
> On Apr 20, 7:28 pm, Mahakali <Maha.Ka...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I need to clarify that the "I" (witness) that becomes aware of the
> > movement/changes..is impersonal Consciousness....
>
Marcus
Apr 23, 2008, 10:20:02 AM4/23/08
to AdvaitaNow
.
Great Discussion,
Having just read this, it made me feel
What was that, such creative words.
Such reflections of heart felt contemplations.
What is this charismatic force which exhibits great depth and
symmetry?
These Egos are so joyous and they don’t even exist.
What a great thing this is, “to be or not to be”
The art of choice.
I like tea and coffee.
.
jaiguru
May 10, 2008, 12:37:05 PM5/10/08
to AdvaitaNow
The purpose of human life is direct vision of God. So keep making
progress. Let trivial hatred, voilence, the foolishness of "I am
great", "I am intelligent" etc. go away. Regarding everyone as just
another maminestation of your favourite deity, learn to respect
everyone in thought, deed and action.
My Master Sri Omkarnath says: "Be free from ego - by no means let
feelings like "I am great" or "I am knowledgeable" or "I am virtuous"
etc. find room in your heart".
> > > > > > > > > > But right/wrong?- Hide quoted text -
progress. Let trivial hatred, voilence, the foolishness of "I am
great", "I am intelligent" etc. go away. Regarding everyone as just
another maminestation of your favourite deity, learn to respect
everyone in thought, deed and action.
My Master Sri Omkarnath says: "Be free from ego - by no means let
feelings like "I am great" or "I am knowledgeable" or "I am virtuous"
etc. find room in your heart".
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