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empty2
May 17, 2008, 5:03:12 AM5/17/08
to AdvaitaNow
From The Sutra of Complete Enlightenment:
“Virtuous man (or woman), all hindrances are themselves of the nature
of ultimate enlightenment. Having a correct thought or losing it is
not different from liberation. ………Wisdom and stupidity are equally
prajna (wisdom). Ignorance and true suchness are not different
realms. Sila (morality), Samadhi (concentration) and prajna (wisdom)
and the three poisons of greed, anger and delusion are all pure
activities.
Sentient beings and the world they live in are of one Dharma-nature.
Hells and heavens are all Pure Lands. Regardless of their distinct
natures, all sentient beings have intrinsically accomplished the
Buddha Path. All vexations are ultimate liberation. The Tathagata’s
ocean of wisdom, which encompasses the whole dharmadhatu (the nature
of all things), clearly illuminates all phenomena as empty space. This
is called ‘the Tathagata’s accordance with the nature of
enlightenment’.
“Virtuous man (or woman), all bodhisattvas and sentient beings in the
Dharma Ending Age should at no time give rise to deluded thoughts!
Yet, when their deluded minds arise, they should not extinguish them.
In the midst of deluded concepts, they should not add discriminations.
Amidst non-discrimination, they should not distinguish true reality.
If sentient beings, upon hearing this Dharma method, believe in,
understand, accept, and uphold it and do not generate alarm and fear,
they are ‘in accordance with the nature of enlightenment."
.........especially the last bit, - and what are the implications re.
the way of Advaita? Any comments?
“Virtuous man (or woman), all hindrances are themselves of the nature
of ultimate enlightenment. Having a correct thought or losing it is
not different from liberation. ………Wisdom and stupidity are equally
prajna (wisdom). Ignorance and true suchness are not different
realms. Sila (morality), Samadhi (concentration) and prajna (wisdom)
and the three poisons of greed, anger and delusion are all pure
activities.
Sentient beings and the world they live in are of one Dharma-nature.
Hells and heavens are all Pure Lands. Regardless of their distinct
natures, all sentient beings have intrinsically accomplished the
Buddha Path. All vexations are ultimate liberation. The Tathagata’s
ocean of wisdom, which encompasses the whole dharmadhatu (the nature
of all things), clearly illuminates all phenomena as empty space. This
is called ‘the Tathagata’s accordance with the nature of
enlightenment’.
“Virtuous man (or woman), all bodhisattvas and sentient beings in the
Dharma Ending Age should at no time give rise to deluded thoughts!
Yet, when their deluded minds arise, they should not extinguish them.
In the midst of deluded concepts, they should not add discriminations.
Amidst non-discrimination, they should not distinguish true reality.
If sentient beings, upon hearing this Dharma method, believe in,
understand, accept, and uphold it and do not generate alarm and fear,
they are ‘in accordance with the nature of enlightenment."
.........especially the last bit, - and what are the implications re.
the way of Advaita? Any comments?
Ram
May 17, 2008, 6:38:41 AM5/17/08
to AdvaitaNow
Ahhh, the paradoxical nature of word play.
Virtuous man as opposed to non-virtuous one? Having a deluded concept
vs. not having one, or vs. having a 'pure' concept? Or when a deluded
mind arises vs. not arising? Liberation vs. ????? Without making any
distinction between wisdom and stupidity why bother with the label of
prajna? When Sila, Samadhi, and Prajna are the same as greed, anger,
and delusion, why bother calling them poisons? Being in accordance
with the nature of enlightenment as opposed to being a generator of
alarm and fear?
Distinctions heaped upon distinctions, this is the religion (Dharma)
method of non-discrimination.
From an objective analysis of what is being said, it appears to be a
heap of discrimination praising the loftiness of non-discrimination.
Really it seems to come down to a matter of perspective, and the
inherent limitation of words to try to convey that which cannot be
said in words.
So much has been said about the inherent unity in diversity, or
diversity in unity, if you prefer. Oneness is the fact. Diversity
appearing in that oneness is also a fact (illusory separation, as was
stated previously). The changing changes, that which does not change,
does not change. One who has stepped beyond, or transcended the
changing can say there are no distinctions between heaven and hell,
etc. Even though they may have an appearance, they are seen to be of
the same substance (which is no substance). For the one who takes the
changing appearances to be true however, heaven and hell, greed,
anger, and delusion, etc., are experienced as being very real. This
can easily be see upon investigation, and without investigation, one
is left to guesswork and conjecture.
Cheers Mate!
Virtuous man as opposed to non-virtuous one? Having a deluded concept
vs. not having one, or vs. having a 'pure' concept? Or when a deluded
mind arises vs. not arising? Liberation vs. ????? Without making any
distinction between wisdom and stupidity why bother with the label of
prajna? When Sila, Samadhi, and Prajna are the same as greed, anger,
and delusion, why bother calling them poisons? Being in accordance
with the nature of enlightenment as opposed to being a generator of
alarm and fear?
Distinctions heaped upon distinctions, this is the religion (Dharma)
method of non-discrimination.
From an objective analysis of what is being said, it appears to be a
heap of discrimination praising the loftiness of non-discrimination.
Really it seems to come down to a matter of perspective, and the
inherent limitation of words to try to convey that which cannot be
said in words.
So much has been said about the inherent unity in diversity, or
diversity in unity, if you prefer. Oneness is the fact. Diversity
appearing in that oneness is also a fact (illusory separation, as was
stated previously). The changing changes, that which does not change,
does not change. One who has stepped beyond, or transcended the
changing can say there are no distinctions between heaven and hell,
etc. Even though they may have an appearance, they are seen to be of
the same substance (which is no substance). For the one who takes the
changing appearances to be true however, heaven and hell, greed,
anger, and delusion, etc., are experienced as being very real. This
can easily be see upon investigation, and without investigation, one
is left to guesswork and conjecture.
Cheers Mate!
Mahakali
May 17, 2008, 2:18:18 PM5/17/08
to AdvaitaNow
, empty2 wrote:
> If sentient beings, upon hearing this Dharma method, believe in, understand, accept, and uphold it and do not generate alarm and fear,they are ‘in accordance with the nature of enlightenment."
This Dharma method is a method which may not be suitable for anyone.
Some people may consider it to be the correct path to follow whereas
others may want to try another one. Who knows?
And, who really knows what's in accordance with the nature of
enlightenment? There can only be the end of suffering. Only love and
compassion can achieve the end of suffering of all sentient beings.
Compassion is also in accordance with the nature of enlightenment.
Kali
> If sentient beings, upon hearing this Dharma method, believe in, understand, accept, and uphold it and do not generate alarm and fear,they are ‘in accordance with the nature of enlightenment."
This Dharma method is a method which may not be suitable for anyone.
Some people may consider it to be the correct path to follow whereas
others may want to try another one. Who knows?
And, who really knows what's in accordance with the nature of
enlightenment? There can only be the end of suffering. Only love and
compassion can achieve the end of suffering of all sentient beings.
Compassion is also in accordance with the nature of enlightenment.
Kali
Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
May 18, 2008, 12:12:12 AM5/18/08
to Advai...@googlegroups.com
empty2 wrote:
From The Sutra of Complete Enlightenment: “Virtuous man (or woman), all hindrances are themselves of the nature of ultimate enlightenment. Having a correct thought or losing it is not different from liberation. ………Wisdom and stupidity are equally prajna (wisdom). Ignorance and true suchness are not different realms. Sila (morality), Samadhi (concentration) and prajna (wisdom) and the three poisons of greed, anger and delusion are all pure activities.
In
essence......there are actioning.......the collage of infinite
actionings... making up the moment.
A collage which includes thought judging some of the actions as sila, samadhi, prajna, (with the respective definings as "sila" as "samadhi", as "prajna" itself being products of thought.)
And which automatically creates that which for thought is not-sila, not-samadhi, not-prajna.
The essence of actionings as movement can only be of the same, irrespective of divisive thought accompanying the movement.
Which also connotes that the essence of divisive thought can only be of the same essence as of everything.
A collage which includes thought judging some of the actions as sila, samadhi, prajna, (with the respective definings as "sila" as "samadhi", as "prajna" itself being products of thought.)
And which automatically creates that which for thought is not-sila, not-samadhi, not-prajna.
The essence of actionings as movement can only be of the same, irrespective of divisive thought accompanying the movement.
Which also connotes that the essence of divisive thought can only be of the same essence as of everything.
Sentient beings and the world they live in are of one Dharma-nature. Hells and heavens are all Pure Lands. Regardless of their distinct natures, all sentient beings have intrinsically accomplished the Buddha Path.
Through the
Tathagata erupted the sequence of sounds which connoted
"Awakened, the seeing that there was none other that was not already awakened".
And yet through the same tathagatic object......speaking on awakening happened for 4 decades.
"Awakened, the seeing that there was none other that was not already awakened".
And yet through the same tathagatic object......speaking on awakening happened for 4 decades.
All vexations are ultimate liberation.
All vexations are
invitations to ascertain the nature of the vexed.
The Tathagata’s ocean of wisdom, which encompasses the whole dharmadhatu (the nature of all things), clearly illuminates all phenomena as empty space. This is called ‘the Tathagata’s accordance with the nature of enlightenment’.
The term tathagata
connotes "suchness".
Nature of enlightenment may be pointed to, by the same term.
Nature of enlightenment may be pointed to, by the same term.
“Virtuous man (or woman), all bodhisattvas and sentient beings in the Dharma Ending Age should at no time give rise to deluded thoughts!
What is not a
deluded thought?
Yet, when their deluded minds arise, they should not extinguish them.
The attempt to
suppress thought is a thought.
The attempt to modify thought is a thought.
The attempt to transform thought is a thought.
The attempt to modify thought is a thought.
The attempt to transform thought is a thought.
In the midst of deluded concepts, they should not add discriminations. Amidst non-discrimination, they should not distinguish true reality.
Is a should-not (no
matter about what)..........not a discrimination?
If sentient beings, upon hearing this Dharma method, believe in, understand, accept, and uphold it and do not generate alarm and fear, they are ‘in accordance with the nature of enlightenment."
A load of crap.
But who ever said that the essence of crap is not as divine as anything else.
But who ever said that the essence of crap is not as divine as anything else.
Anandanand
May 18, 2008, 12:28:53 AM5/18/08
to AdvaitaNow
I wonder if there are any preconditions to this. Doesn't seem fit for
a common man/ lay man. Though I won't dare call it crap, since however
advaitic I am, crap still means crap.
You start with neti neti (not this, not this) and end with neti neti
(not other than this). (Gurudev Ranade, I don't even know what is THIS
and OTHER)
a common man/ lay man. Though I won't dare call it crap, since however
advaitic I am, crap still means crap.
You start with neti neti (not this, not this) and end with neti neti
(not other than this). (Gurudev Ranade, I don't even know what is THIS
and OTHER)
empty2
May 18, 2008, 2:25:13 AM5/18/08
to AdvaitaNow
See Gary? Everyone's still lurking behind their computers just waiting
for something to get their teeth into (:)
In honour of Kali, and the Buddha whose birthday, moment of
enlightenment, and death (as I just realised) are celebrated as
happening on tomorrow's full moon, here's another question (What is
compassion? - on a new thread).
Hopefully after that, Empty2 will shut up for a while 'cos I'm getting
tired of hearing his voice.
> > the way of Advaita? Any comments?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
for something to get their teeth into (:)
In honour of Kali, and the Buddha whose birthday, moment of
enlightenment, and death (as I just realised) are celebrated as
happening on tomorrow's full moon, here's another question (What is
compassion? - on a new thread).
Hopefully after that, Empty2 will shut up for a while 'cos I'm getting
tired of hearing his voice.
>
> - Show quoted text -
empty2
May 18, 2008, 2:51:48 AM5/18/08
to AdvaitaNow
PS. Sandeep, I have heard on good authority, that even the sh*t of a
'realised' person smells sweet.
(How would that be for a way to tell?.......... "Excuse me, would you
mind if I...... !!!")
Alright, I know........just the same old ever-new load of crap (:)
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
'realised' person smells sweet.
(How would that be for a way to tell?.......... "Excuse me, would you
mind if I...... !!!")
Alright, I know........just the same old ever-new load of crap (:)
godszen
May 18, 2008, 4:12:31 AM5/18/08
to AdvaitaNow
haha
empty2
May 18, 2008, 7:12:44 AM5/18/08
to AdvaitaNow
Ok. Before we all dissolve into a puddle of uncontrollable
laughter......
'Fess up! Who's been sniffing?
On May 18, 3:12 pm, godszen <gods...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> haha
laughter......
'Fess up! Who's been sniffing?
On May 18, 3:12 pm, godszen <gods...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> haha
Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
May 18, 2008, 10:44:07 PM5/18/08
to Advai...@googlegroups.com
empty2 wrote:
PS. Sandeep, I have heard on good authority, that even the sh*t of a 'realised' person smells sweet.
Yes.
And everytime this guy farted, the adoring disciples heard it as resonance of the Anhad Nad-Om and would
immediately start reciting the Om Mane Padme Hum.
And everytime this guy farted, the adoring disciples heard it as resonance of the Anhad Nad-Om and would
immediately start reciting the Om Mane Padme Hum.
empty2
May 18, 2008, 11:42:42 PM5/18/08
to AdvaitaNow
Maybe you could put that on your website, Sandeep, - with full audio
mix, of course!
Cheers Ram! Thanks all for the responses.........
I wonder if the absence of any kind of discrimination within or
without doesn't indicate a kind of free-flow without any gears or
brakes,- which, after all, does sound a bit scary......
On May 19, 9:44 am, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
mix, of course!
Cheers Ram! Thanks all for the responses.........
I wonder if the absence of any kind of discrimination within or
without doesn't indicate a kind of free-flow without any gears or
brakes,- which, after all, does sound a bit scary......
On May 19, 9:44 am, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies
Marcus
May 19, 2008, 11:08:22 AM5/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
.
“Virtuous man (or woman), all hindrances are themselves of the nature
of ultimate enlightenment. Having a correct thought or losing it is
not different from liberation. ………Wisdom and stupidity are equally
prajna (wisdom).
Virtuous man/woman is surly when a person takes full responsibility
and control of all facets of the apparent self. If you feel either
wisdom or stupidity one must control (master) these human conditions.
Know them to be what they are, part of you and as such, part of the
whole. Equal in their importance.
Once this skill is achieved one can see there is no choice only
command. Stupidity is to be respected purely and simply as such.
It’s part of us all. But its purpose is to qualify wisdom.
Opinion:
What the piece is trying to display is that the skill of virtue has to
be realise. We are weakness and strength simultaneously. We need
only to accept this, then take full responsibility and hence full
control. To master. Not ignoring any part of self but seeing it’s
purpose. The human ego has a purpose. It must be focus on virtuous
thoughts, words and deeds. We can-not chop off our egos they are a
part of the sentient being.
To steer your ship thought the seas of life.
.
> > immediately start reciting the Om Mane Padme Hum.- Hide quoted text -
“Virtuous man (or woman), all hindrances are themselves of the nature
of ultimate enlightenment. Having a correct thought or losing it is
not different from liberation. ………Wisdom and stupidity are equally
prajna (wisdom).
and control of all facets of the apparent self. If you feel either
wisdom or stupidity one must control (master) these human conditions.
Know them to be what they are, part of you and as such, part of the
whole. Equal in their importance.
Once this skill is achieved one can see there is no choice only
command. Stupidity is to be respected purely and simply as such.
It’s part of us all. But its purpose is to qualify wisdom.
Opinion:
What the piece is trying to display is that the skill of virtue has to
be realise. We are weakness and strength simultaneously. We need
only to accept this, then take full responsibility and hence full
control. To master. Not ignoring any part of self but seeing it’s
purpose. The human ego has a purpose. It must be focus on virtuous
thoughts, words and deeds. We can-not chop off our egos they are a
part of the sentient being.
To steer your ship thought the seas of life.
.
Ram
May 19, 2008, 5:53:07 PM5/19/08
to AdvaitaNow
As you conceive, accordingly is your experience.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Message has been deleted
Walking down the path
May 20, 2008, 6:49:11 AM5/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
> “Virtuous man (or woman), all hindrances are themselves of the nature
> of ultimate enlightenment. Having a correct thought or losing it is
> not different from liberation. ………Wisdom and stupidity are equally
> prajna (wisdom). Ignorance and true suchness are not different
> realms. Sila (morality), Samadhi (concentration) and prajna (wisdom)
> and the three poisons of greed, anger and delusion are all pure
> activities.
Pulls the rug out from under all our excuses.
We awaken in this moment now, not another. We awaken to ourselves as
we are, not as somebody else - or will be someday “when I’m feeling
better”. Lol.
Walking down the path
May 20, 2008, 7:04:22 AM5/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
“Here, here” the direct path!
Beyond-I-AM
May 20, 2008, 3:33:10 PM5/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
Nice to see some familiar posters and see some threads worth reading
once again on AZ and AN.
It's a nice meaningless bit of word play with a bit of humor for some
freshness thrown in once again.
once again on AZ and AN.
It's a nice meaningless bit of word play with a bit of humor for some
freshness thrown in once again.
godszen
May 20, 2008, 5:23:54 PM5/20/08
to AdvaitaNow
hey nathan!
how's it go'in in coconut land?
how's it go'in in coconut land?
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