………..How the mighty Fall………….
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Marcus
Oct 7, 2008, 8:10:25 AM10/7/08
to AdvaitaNow
.
Truly Sorry,
But someone has to jump in first………all things being connected.
Credit crunch $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Oppppppps
How many prophesies have there been about the fall of Babylon. Is
this not the end of an era.
Can we now get on with the real work for cooperation, instead of these
juvenile games of competition. They don’t work. Does the western
business world finally wake up to the reality, with out wisdom we can
destroy.
Is western business ready for it’s next lesson. Or does western
society have to re-enact recession once again ???
Is this the wake up call for mankind to look beyond the confines of
capitalist materialism ???
.
Truly Sorry,
But someone has to jump in first………all things being connected.
Credit crunch $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Oppppppps
How many prophesies have there been about the fall of Babylon. Is
this not the end of an era.
Can we now get on with the real work for cooperation, instead of these
juvenile games of competition. They don’t work. Does the western
business world finally wake up to the reality, with out wisdom we can
destroy.
Is western business ready for it’s next lesson. Or does western
society have to re-enact recession once again ???
Is this the wake up call for mankind to look beyond the confines of
capitalist materialism ???
.
Gary
Oct 7, 2008, 2:22:32 PM10/7/08
to AdvaitaNow
Marcus:
Now, how can we turn this around and make it a post relevant to this
board?
Your post is an important one. My god, I've lost more money than most
Americans make in many years of work. I should say that no, I wasn't
invested in sub-prime mortgages. So, I don't want to minimize your
post.
Greed is a primary human trait. It is a byproduct of the independent
ego seeing the collection of things and power as being a primary
goal. Human weakness is manifest in all forms of government and all
organizations. Prophesy is just B.S. Wait long enough and give
enough latitude and all prophesy comes true. Competition is a healthy
part of human existence. The Western approach to things that you
criticize has also resulted in the greatest number of people living
the highest material lifestyle in history. It is also true that with
this life expectancy and the general level of health care has never
been better. Competition is a wonderful thing. All men are created
equal, but this does not guarantee equal outcomes. Competition allows
the individual to strive to do great things. It can also be tied to
all of what can be described as the human vices. It is balance that
gets lost. The Democrats in the U.S. Congress wanted poor people to
own houses and wanted them to vote Democratic. Bush wanted Hispanics
that were poor (many are not) to be able to purchase a home without
having the financial credentials and thus woo them to vote
Republican. Well, it turns out that people that can't afford home
ownership, also can't afford to pay for them. Bankers found that they
were making lots of money. Fanny and Freddie were going gangbusters
and putting money in Dodd's and Obama's bank accounts. I use these
two, since they were the largest benefactors of such contributions to
the U.S. Congress. Everyone was making out, except for the U.S.
taxpayer. Now, the rich have once again rallied to put this off on
the U.S. taxpayer with a horrendous bail out bill. So, the forces for
Socialism and the redistributing wealth to those that have not earned
it have won a great victory. What does this all prove? It proves
that bastards become politicians and that the populace doesn't care to
pay attention. The Republican form of government may be seeing an
inevitable fall. It was predicted that such a fall would occur when
politicians discovered that they could take money from 49% of the
people and give it to 51% and win elections. It looks like Obama will
get in and he WILL raise taxes/fees on all Americans in a time of
recession. That recession will then get worse, because increased
taxation in a financial recession is a recipe for financial disaster.
The depression of the 1930's might have been short if the government
would have stayed out of things. Once again, the government caused
the problem..or at a minimum failed to serve the people.. and once
again the government will make the crisis worse.
So, why do I respond above after chastising Marcus for his post? I do
so because everyone must make sure that they have a basic conservative
financial plan to see their families through this. This has nothing
to do with competition, or cooperation. It has to do with the
financial welfare of your family. Upon this rests the rewards of
capitalism and the hard competitive work of the ourselves and the
generations before us. Recession is upon us and depression is a very
likely outcome. We will see where this goes. Mankind will NEVER
wakeup. Greed and the other vices are here to stay despite the call
to "look beyond".
Take care of your families. This is a worldwide downturn. Greed
knows no borders, nor does it favor any one form of government/
economic system.
Now, how can we turn this around and make it a post relevant to this
board?
Your post is an important one. My god, I've lost more money than most
Americans make in many years of work. I should say that no, I wasn't
invested in sub-prime mortgages. So, I don't want to minimize your
post.
Greed is a primary human trait. It is a byproduct of the independent
ego seeing the collection of things and power as being a primary
goal. Human weakness is manifest in all forms of government and all
organizations. Prophesy is just B.S. Wait long enough and give
enough latitude and all prophesy comes true. Competition is a healthy
part of human existence. The Western approach to things that you
criticize has also resulted in the greatest number of people living
the highest material lifestyle in history. It is also true that with
this life expectancy and the general level of health care has never
been better. Competition is a wonderful thing. All men are created
equal, but this does not guarantee equal outcomes. Competition allows
the individual to strive to do great things. It can also be tied to
all of what can be described as the human vices. It is balance that
gets lost. The Democrats in the U.S. Congress wanted poor people to
own houses and wanted them to vote Democratic. Bush wanted Hispanics
that were poor (many are not) to be able to purchase a home without
having the financial credentials and thus woo them to vote
Republican. Well, it turns out that people that can't afford home
ownership, also can't afford to pay for them. Bankers found that they
were making lots of money. Fanny and Freddie were going gangbusters
and putting money in Dodd's and Obama's bank accounts. I use these
two, since they were the largest benefactors of such contributions to
the U.S. Congress. Everyone was making out, except for the U.S.
taxpayer. Now, the rich have once again rallied to put this off on
the U.S. taxpayer with a horrendous bail out bill. So, the forces for
Socialism and the redistributing wealth to those that have not earned
it have won a great victory. What does this all prove? It proves
that bastards become politicians and that the populace doesn't care to
pay attention. The Republican form of government may be seeing an
inevitable fall. It was predicted that such a fall would occur when
politicians discovered that they could take money from 49% of the
people and give it to 51% and win elections. It looks like Obama will
get in and he WILL raise taxes/fees on all Americans in a time of
recession. That recession will then get worse, because increased
taxation in a financial recession is a recipe for financial disaster.
The depression of the 1930's might have been short if the government
would have stayed out of things. Once again, the government caused
the problem..or at a minimum failed to serve the people.. and once
again the government will make the crisis worse.
So, why do I respond above after chastising Marcus for his post? I do
so because everyone must make sure that they have a basic conservative
financial plan to see their families through this. This has nothing
to do with competition, or cooperation. It has to do with the
financial welfare of your family. Upon this rests the rewards of
capitalism and the hard competitive work of the ourselves and the
generations before us. Recession is upon us and depression is a very
likely outcome. We will see where this goes. Mankind will NEVER
wakeup. Greed and the other vices are here to stay despite the call
to "look beyond".
Take care of your families. This is a worldwide downturn. Greed
knows no borders, nor does it favor any one form of government/
economic system.
godszen
Oct 7, 2008, 7:13:18 PM10/7/08
to AdvaitaNow
Marcus wrote:
> Can we now get on with the real work for cooperation, instead of these
> juvenile games of competition. They don’t work. Does the western
> business world finally wake up to the reality, with out wisdom we can
> destroy.
well please tell us what eastern government controlled businesses are
> Can we now get on with the real work for cooperation, instead of these
> juvenile games of competition. They don’t work. Does the western
> business world finally wake up to the reality, with out wisdom we can
> destroy.
doing so well?
> Is western business ready for it’s next lesson. Or does western
> society have to re-enact recession once again ???
> Is this the wake up call for mankind to look beyond the confines of
> capitalist materialism ???
it's only when the government gets involved that capitalism gets
slowed down
In the US constitution it says;
"the congress shall coin money of gold and silver" the purpose of this
was to keep the value of money constant. It also kept the polititions
from spending money they hadn't collected in taxes. In 1913? the
congress passed the "federal reserve bank act". Which allowed them,
ultimately, to print all the money they wanted/needed to spend on "buy-
votes projects and programs", and inflate the money supply without
end, and ignoring the constitution altogether. Today we have runaway
inflation, no savings, and a sluggish economy. We don't even have a
capital-based economy for the most part, it's become credit/debt based
economy. The government has passed so many laws restricting private
businesses that the only way to get the econmy going is to flood it
with money/debt/credit.
capitalism means free choice to set prices (for businesses) and free
choice to shop for the best price and product you can find (for
buyers). It also means you have a choice to not work and be poor, or
to work your ass off and be rich, or somewhere in between.
Individualism is ultimately natures way to evolve/reproduce the
strongest and smartest beings.
It's the same for enlightenment, those who work hard to be as
conscious as they can be, and hang around with those who are already
fully conscious, or are at least more conscious than they are, will
ultimately become enlightened/fully conscious sooner than those who
don't try at all.
the manifest universe (brahman) is obviously alive and intelligent as
a whole, but is also made up of individual life forms
God is the whole, and the parts at the same time.
Richard
Oct 7, 2008, 11:41:52 PM10/7/08
to AdvaitaNow
Gary,
I am e-mailing part of your above message to a few family members,
crediting it to "Gary".
Hope it's okay with you.
Someone told me they "... vote for the person whose lies make them
feel the best".
Richard
Marcus
Oct 8, 2008, 6:30:43 AM10/8/08
to AdvaitaNow
.
Gary.
Godzen,
Thank you kindly for your passionate responses.
Must first apologies for the posting’s subject but it is an
unavoidable global occurrence. Which in greater or lesser degrees
affects all humanity in this moment.
This I believe to be the point.
The political and financial games (sub-prime mortgages) being played
impact everyone. The error is wisdom and responsibility. The might
and strength of America means it can withstand the peaks and troths of
boom and bust. But what of the rest of financial markets who, like
sheep to the slaughter, childishly accept the illusion of financial
wealth.
England had a similar political phase under Margaret Thatcher, back in
the eighties. She promoted the sale of houses to the masses who could-
not afford to repay their mortgage. But the banks and building
socialites made a fortune, and the less fortunate just became even
less fortunate. It’s not a new idea. The lost are easily led. But
the point of being a government, the purpose of democracy was to
protect the less fortune from the bullying greed of human corporate
nature.
Godzen said :-
“It also means you have a choice to not work and be poor, or
to work your ass off and be rich,”
Please define rich. How much money qualifies rich ???
What of all those who work their ass off to be poor. Lets not get this
out of proportion. Fact – In a world of more then 6 billion people,
4.6 billion live in developing countries. We are the exception not
the rule.
Nature has created, like it or not, Natural order. The rate of
consumption for the western countries is disproportional to the
whole. Logically the laws of evolution will dictate balance.
The strength of an organisation is only it’s ability to function as a
team. To cooperate with itself. The true strength of all human
social order is no different to this.
To be awake is to see all humanity as a single team.
It’s strength is it’s ability to cooperate.
Love thy neighbour as thy self.
My concern is for everyone, not just America.
.
Gary.
Godzen,
Thank you kindly for your passionate responses.
Must first apologies for the posting’s subject but it is an
unavoidable global occurrence. Which in greater or lesser degrees
affects all humanity in this moment.
This I believe to be the point.
The political and financial games (sub-prime mortgages) being played
impact everyone. The error is wisdom and responsibility. The might
and strength of America means it can withstand the peaks and troths of
boom and bust. But what of the rest of financial markets who, like
sheep to the slaughter, childishly accept the illusion of financial
wealth.
England had a similar political phase under Margaret Thatcher, back in
the eighties. She promoted the sale of houses to the masses who could-
not afford to repay their mortgage. But the banks and building
socialites made a fortune, and the less fortunate just became even
less fortunate. It’s not a new idea. The lost are easily led. But
the point of being a government, the purpose of democracy was to
protect the less fortune from the bullying greed of human corporate
nature.
Godzen said :-
“It also means you have a choice to not work and be poor, or
to work your ass off and be rich,”
Please define rich. How much money qualifies rich ???
What of all those who work their ass off to be poor. Lets not get this
out of proportion. Fact – In a world of more then 6 billion people,
4.6 billion live in developing countries. We are the exception not
the rule.
Nature has created, like it or not, Natural order. The rate of
consumption for the western countries is disproportional to the
whole. Logically the laws of evolution will dictate balance.
The strength of an organisation is only it’s ability to function as a
team. To cooperate with itself. The true strength of all human
social order is no different to this.
To be awake is to see all humanity as a single team.
It’s strength is it’s ability to cooperate.
Love thy neighbour as thy self.
My concern is for everyone, not just America.
.
Message has been deleted
Gary
Oct 9, 2008, 12:01:02 AM10/9/08
to AdvaitaNow
Marcus:
Second effort at a reply.
I don't understand what you are saying. What are these "laws of
evolution" that dictate balance? Who is to judge what balance would
look like? To my eyes everything is always in balance. Where is the
lack of balance? Yesterday I was poor. Today I am rich. Tomorrow I
may be dead. All is in balance. Humanity always functions as a
team. We play team starvation, team killing, team joy and team
success. We love each other to death. All unfolds in a world of
opposites. If Marcus has some sense that Marcus should set out to
feed the poor, then this is balance. The workers party where Comrade
Gary and Comrade Marcus create utopia is just a pipe dream. There
will always be those that work hard and get little. There is nothing
wrong with striving for a more widespread well-being. The quickest
way to meet these goals is massive genocide and then strict population
control. I don't think either of us would go for that one. For me,
my days of utopian ideas of giving to everyone are in the past. I use
to travel to poor countries and work to supposedly improve things in a
very minor way. Sometimes, these good will efforts had rather
negative unintended consequences. Today, I help my family. Marcus,
what do you do?
I know that some of this sounds very harsh, but I put it forward with
love.
Gary
Second effort at a reply.
I don't understand what you are saying. What are these "laws of
evolution" that dictate balance? Who is to judge what balance would
look like? To my eyes everything is always in balance. Where is the
lack of balance? Yesterday I was poor. Today I am rich. Tomorrow I
may be dead. All is in balance. Humanity always functions as a
team. We play team starvation, team killing, team joy and team
success. We love each other to death. All unfolds in a world of
opposites. If Marcus has some sense that Marcus should set out to
feed the poor, then this is balance. The workers party where Comrade
Gary and Comrade Marcus create utopia is just a pipe dream. There
will always be those that work hard and get little. There is nothing
wrong with striving for a more widespread well-being. The quickest
way to meet these goals is massive genocide and then strict population
control. I don't think either of us would go for that one. For me,
my days of utopian ideas of giving to everyone are in the past. I use
to travel to poor countries and work to supposedly improve things in a
very minor way. Sometimes, these good will efforts had rather
negative unintended consequences. Today, I help my family. Marcus,
what do you do?
I know that some of this sounds very harsh, but I put it forward with
love.
Gary
godszen
Oct 9, 2008, 2:01:27 AM10/9/08
to AdvaitaNow
Marcus wrote:
> This I believe to be the point.
> The political and financial games (sub-prime mortgages) being played
> impact everyone. The error is wisdom and responsibility. The might
> and strength of America means it can withstand the peaks and troths of
> boom and bust. But what of the rest of financial markets who, like
> sheep to the slaughter, childishly accept the illusion of financial
> wealth.
what's wrong with financial wealth?
> This I believe to be the point.
> The political and financial games (sub-prime mortgages) being played
> impact everyone. The error is wisdom and responsibility. The might
> and strength of America means it can withstand the peaks and troths of
> boom and bust. But what of the rest of financial markets who, like
> sheep to the slaughter, childishly accept the illusion of financial
> wealth.
isn't it better than financial lack?
> England had a similar political phase under Margaret Thatcher, back in
> the eighties. She promoted the sale of houses to the masses who could-
> not afford to repay their mortgage.
> But the banks and building socialites made a fortune,
and it's not paid back?
> and the less fortunate just became even less fortunate.
like some other people did?
> It’s not a new idea. The lost are easily led. But
> the point of being a government, the purpose of democracy was to
> protect the less fortune from the bullying greed of human corporate
> nature.
all the shots.
> Godzen said :-
> “It also means you have a choice to not work and be poor, or
> to work your ass off and be rich,”
>
> Please define rich. How much money qualifies rich ???
you need
> What of all those who work their ass off to be poor. Lets not get this
> out of proportion. Fact – In a world of more then 6 billion people,
> 4.6 billion live in developing countries. We are the exception not
> the rule.
you're not very productive or your government is run by complete
assholes and/or they've put up economic walls around the country
> Nature has created, like it or not, Natural order. The rate of
> consumption for the western countries is disproportional to the
> whole.
countries is greater
> Logically the laws of evolution will dictate balance.
> The strength of an organisation is only it’s ability to function as a
> team. To cooperate with itself. The true strength of all human
> social order is no different to this.
waiting around for the whole to take care of them. The problem is that
the whole is made up of individuals.
> To be awake is to see all humanity as a single team.
> It’s strength is it’s ability to cooperate.
> Love thy neighbour as thy self.
> My concern is for everyone, not just America.
help, and not just talk about it
herenow
Oct 9, 2008, 7:57:20 AM10/9/08
to AdvaitaNow
gARY WROTE
I use
to travel to poor countries and work to supposedly improve things in a
very minor way.
My contribution to the wider society is to...........stay home !
I use
to travel to poor countries and work to supposedly improve things in a
very minor way.
herenow
Oct 9, 2008, 8:02:06 AM10/9/08
to AdvaitaNow
Gary wrote
The quickest
way to meet these goals is massive genocide and then strict population
control.
Any volunteers ???
Come on people.....let's have a bit of commitment from our group.
We need LEADERS who actions we can mindlessly follow.
The quickest
way to meet these goals is massive genocide and then strict population
control.
Come on people.....let's have a bit of commitment from our group.
We need LEADERS who actions we can mindlessly follow.
herenow
Oct 9, 2008, 8:07:12 AM10/9/08
to AdvaitaNow
On the other hand
perhaps we could start with LEADERS whose words we can mindlessly
mimick.
oh -oh i'm talking to my self........
i knew this would happen.......trying to follow my own lead...very
tricky.
perhaps we could start with LEADERS whose words we can mindlessly
mimick.
oh -oh i'm talking to my self........
i knew this would happen.......trying to follow my own lead...very
tricky.
Marcus
Oct 10, 2008, 8:08:11 AM10/10/08
to AdvaitaNow
.
Thank you kindly,
Gary,
Godzen,
Herenow,
Such words so beautifully drench with passion.
Third millennia Global recession what a way to start the day.
Very interesting times.
My advice. Head for the door marked “peace” in all that you are.
Good luck brothers.
Do I have the right to believe in a better way ?………………..no…..
.
> > > > > Richard- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you kindly,
Gary,
Godzen,
Herenow,
Such words so beautifully drench with passion.
Third millennia Global recession what a way to start the day.
Very interesting times.
My advice. Head for the door marked “peace” in all that you are.
Good luck brothers.
Do I have the right to believe in a better way ?………………..no…..
.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gary
Oct 10, 2008, 9:40:49 AM10/10/08
to AdvaitaNow
Marcus:
You not only have a right to believe in a better way, but you have an
opportunity to act. You see, that is the problem with the better
way. You can treat others in a supportive and cooperative way per
your sense of that, but Iran is still going to try to Nuke Israel and
the politicians are going to continue to sell us out. Of course, all
this is balance. It isn't sufficient to just believe, but in order to
make such great world transformation to your better way, you need
action on a grand scale. The hippie generation in the U.S. was full
of grand ideas, but so far all we have to show is some good music and
Bill Clinton. So, "peace" to all and grab your guns. It isn't a just
a funny quip when they called the Colt 1875 single action revolver the
"Peacemaker"...Best
You not only have a right to believe in a better way, but you have an
opportunity to act. You see, that is the problem with the better
way. You can treat others in a supportive and cooperative way per
your sense of that, but Iran is still going to try to Nuke Israel and
the politicians are going to continue to sell us out. Of course, all
this is balance. It isn't sufficient to just believe, but in order to
make such great world transformation to your better way, you need
action on a grand scale. The hippie generation in the U.S. was full
of grand ideas, but so far all we have to show is some good music and
Bill Clinton. So, "peace" to all and grab your guns. It isn't a just
a funny quip when they called the Colt 1875 single action revolver the
"Peacemaker"...Best
Marcus
Oct 10, 2008, 11:12:38 AM10/10/08
to AdvaitaNow
.
Thanks Gary,
“in order to
What action, How grand ??
When can I start.
Should I bring a gun or rolling fields of lavender ??
Or should I concentrate on maintaining inner peace. With the
explanation.
“as you think so shall you be”
That the apparent external world is only a reflection on my true inner-
self.
Inner Peace being true wealth and the greatest richness “I am” could
ever hope to experience.
I promise you each day I shall do my best, in every way I know how and
with true conviction that “doing” is my chance of valued being.
Thanks again.
.
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Thanks Gary,
“in order to
make such great world transformation to your better way, you need
action on a grand scale.”
What action, How grand ??
When can I start.
Should I bring a gun or rolling fields of lavender ??
Or should I concentrate on maintaining inner peace. With the
explanation.
“as you think so shall you be”
That the apparent external world is only a reflection on my true inner-
self.
Inner Peace being true wealth and the greatest richness “I am” could
ever hope to experience.
I promise you each day I shall do my best, in every way I know how and
with true conviction that “doing” is my chance of valued being.
Thanks again.
.
Gary
Oct 10, 2008, 1:28:32 PM10/10/08
to AdvaitaNow
Marcus:
Well, that seems like good advice to all of us.
Best,
Gary
Well, that seems like good advice to all of us.
Best,
Gary
Richard
Oct 10, 2008, 2:03:28 PM10/10/08
to AdvaitaNow
Hard times are a great test of our spiritual beliefs.
The Bible is rife with examples of those who went through difficult
situations but kept their faith.
The Bhagavad Gita tells of Arjuna's trials and the spiritual advice
given to him at the height of battle.
I wish I could locate it, but in 1996 someone gave me a pin which
said, "None of this is real".
Darren
Oct 13, 2008, 6:19:41 PM10/13/08
to AdvaitaNow
and rise again!!
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