Latest DMOC Settings

[Randy Pollock]

Hi all,

I¹ve been slowly adjusting my settings trying to optimize my car. Below
it something I set Monday morning. The car has never driven so well.
Yesterday I realized I was doing 55 MPH in a 40 MPH zone - this on a section
of street where I always had to floor it to do 35 MPH up a small hill. A
steeper hill where I was limited to 22 MPH saw 28 MPH yesterday.

The largest change was adjusting EE2NoAccelBat to 115V and
EE2AccelBatRamp to 12V. The previous settings were 120V and 15V.

I did this at the suggestion of a friend who is developing large lithium
packs for airport vehicles. He hasn't worked on lead batteries in years,
but felt that 120V was a good place to stop using the batteries when they
were not under a significant load. When I drive up my hill after the 12-15
mile commute, my batteries rebound from 122V to 145V within seconds of
taking my foot off of the accelerator pedal. He thought 115V under heavy
load was ok. Those extra 5 volts as a slight steeper ramp made a huge
difference in hill climbing ability and a small one in normal acceleration.

I wouldn't call the car peppy, but it is getting there. At least it is
now reaching the point that I don't feel so worried about keeping up on
surface streets with hills.

Of course, now that I can get more power through the motor and it is
getting warmer, I am seeing more issues with the controller reaching its
thermal limit. I had added some cooling in the trunk, but will probably
need to look at adding more. The original concept was shown on Tim's blog:

http://914ev.blogspot.com/2007/07/pictures-from-randy.html

I will probably place four 2" fans where I have the holes behind the
PORSCHE reflector. I will replace the reflector with a screen with small
holes (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9232t181/=2jkoym). I will probably paint it
black and paint the car behind it black too. That will make the holes
harder to see. To operate the fans, I will make a little cable that goes
between the Packard connector on the DMOC fans. Mostly it will be a pass
through, but I will tap the +12V line to run a relay to operate the extra
fans. This way, the only time the new fans will only run when the DMOC
requests cooling. I'll have to see if there is enough air leakage to keep
the fans happy - might have to provide some air flow from the engine
compartment side.

Good luck on your own projects,

- Randy

#Code Skin Parameters
#Mon Jun 29 07:44:49 PDT 2009
EEXPedZero\ (T_INT,C)=0.0498
EE2DisableChargedError\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE2ShaftDirection\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE2PsOnBat\ (T_INT,C)=109.96
EE1LoggingRate\ (T_INT,C)=-1.0
EEXAccelMaxTorque\ (T_INT,C)=150.1
EEXMaxRegenPower\ (T_INT,C)=20000.0
EE2LSyncMax\ (T_INT,C)=2.49977
EE2IsMax\ (T_INT,C)=400.0
EE2MotorPTCisNTC\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2IRegDecoupling\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2BatVHiMem\ (T_INT,C)=0.0122
EE1UsDCScale\ (T_INT,C)=2.50781
EE2MinPowerLimitSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EEXBrakeLightOnTorque\ (T_INT,C)=9.85
EE2BatVLoMem\ (T_INT,C)=0.0122
EEXPreloadTorque\ (T_INT,C)=9.85
EEXInterlockSpeedHigh\ (T_INT,C)=1699.2
EE2MotorTempFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE2HeatsinkTempFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=0.009949
EE2PSHighBatIsMax\ (T_INT,C)=200.0
EE2NoAccelBat\ (T_INT,C)=115.04
EE2BoxTempMax\ (T_INT,C)=75.0
EE2OscDeltaHz\ (T_INT,C)=24.4
EE2PsiRSat\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EEXPedMax\ (T_INT,C)=0.40039
EE2PsiRSlew\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EEXTorqueSlew\ (T_INT,C)=90.0
EE2FanOnTemp\ (T_INT,C)=40.039
EE2PsiRIm63\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EEXNoBrakeSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=200.2
EE1UsDCFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=0.019958
EE2IsQKp\ (T_INT,C)=0.24998
EE2HertzOscFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=0.199951
EE2NoAccelPosSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=8999.0
EEXBrakeMaxTorque\ (T_INT,C)=79.98
EEXNormAccelPower\ (T_INT,C)=22031.0
EE2LSigma\ (T_INT,C)=0.14361
EE2PsiRMax\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2MotorPTCHot\ (T_INT,C)=0.90039
EE2IdL50\ (T_INT,C)=50.0
EE2IsKp\ (T_INT,C)=0.24998
EE2MotorPTCCold\ (T_INT,C)=0.16602
EEXMinAccelPower\ (T_INT,C)=27031.0
EEXBrakeTorqueSlew\ (T_INT,C)=60.0
EEXFullAccelPosSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=10000.0
EE2WyeConnected\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2BrkModulationIndex\ (T_INT,C)=0.849976
EE1MotorP\ (T_INT,C)=2.0
EE2NoRegenBat\ (T_INT,C)=169.92
EEXMaxAccelPower\ (T_INT,C)=27969.0
EEXNoIgnSwitch\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE1EncoderDirection\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE2RegenBatRamp\ (T_INT,C)=15.04
EE2BatVWFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=0.799988
EE1TISVMDisabled\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2IsQKi\ (T_INT,C)=0.001241
EE1HardOVLimit\ (T_INT,C)=0.84961
EEXPedBrake\ (T_INT,C)=0.09961
EE2BoxTempRamp\ (T_INT,C)=9.961
EE2PSLimitBatVoltage\ (T_INT,C)=379.88
EE2MaxCurrentAngleCos\ (T_INT,C)=0.766022
EE2ModulationIndex\ (T_INT,C)=0.949951
EE2BatVSFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=0.099976
EE2IsKi\ (T_INT,C)=0.001241
EEXFullAccelNegSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=2998.0
EEXBrakeLightOffTorque\ (T_INT,C)=19.99
EE2NoAccelNegSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=8999.0
EE2MotorPTCMin\ (T_INT,C)=0.00391
EEXPedHyst\ (T_INT,C)=0.01953
EE2IdMax\ (T_INT,C)=50.0
EEXRegenOnSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=598.1
EE2StatorResistance\ (T_INT,C)=0.01237
EEXInterlockSpeedLow\ (T_INT,C)=998.5
EEXFullBrakeSpeed\ (T_INT,C)=3000.5
EE2EnableContOffsetCalib\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE2RotorResistance\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2OscDeltaT\ (T_INT,C)=20.0
EE2PSHighBatVoltage\ (T_INT,C)=369.92
EE2AccelBatRamp\ (T_INT,C)=11.91
EEXUnloadTorqueSlew\ (T_INT,C)=90.0
EE2MaxCurrentAngleSin\ (T_INT,C)=0.642761
EE2IRegSatEnable\ (T_INT,C)=0.0
EE2HertzFilterK1\ (T_INT,C)=0.199951
EE2LSyncCap\ (T_INT,C)=1.74941
EEXPedAccel\ (T_INT,C)=0.125
EE2StallDutyFactor\ (T_INT,C)=0.75
EE1Enable1ZVPWM\ (T_INT,C)=1.0
EE1SpeedoDiv\ (T_INT,C)=70.0
EE1MaxSwitchingVdc\ (T_INT,C)=379.88
EE2FanOffTemp\ (T_INT,C)=34.961
EE2SlipConstant\ (T_INT,C)=0.44505
EE2PsOffBat\ (T_INT,C)=100.0
EE1EncoderPulses\ (T_INT,C)=64.0
EE2TorqueInductance\ (T_INT,C)=1.53555

[Terry M Brown]

Greetings everyone - I just want to report in that I have been daily driving my EA-AC kit conversion 914 to and from work for about three months. My commute involves about ten miles up 1,000' of elevation, then around our hilly town and back home. Last week I drove to a town 25 miles away (and 1,000' lower) and back without recharging in between... Except on the really steep hills, I was doing 50-65 most of the way.

 

I plug in and recharge at work whenever possible, although I try to unplug after noon when our electric rates go up and our solar panels are cranking out the juice here in Northern CA.

 

I can report that my FLA boys are getting noticably stronger with each passing day. Some of the hills that I used to just barely make it up in "high" power mode are now a breeze in "normal" power mode.

 

The point is: you can't actually know what your performance is with FLA's when you first power up after converting. It takes a while for the batteries to reach their fullest potential.
 

Terry B

---

From: Randy Pollock <ra...@alumni.caltech.edu>
To: "91...@googlegroups.com" <91...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:01:44 AM
Subject: [914ev] Latest DMOC Settings

[Randy Pollock]

On 6/30/09 10:12 AM, "Terry M Brown" <tbrow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The point is: you can't actually know what your performance is with FLA's when
> you first power up after converting. It takes a while for the batteries to
> reach their fullest potential.

Hi Terry,

Glad to hear your experience. How many miles do you have on your car
now? I am just about to reach 1,000.

I suspect my car could match your description if I had 10 miles to climb
1,000 feet. I have more like 1,400 feet in 6 miles with 1,000 in the last
mile and a quarter.

Also, could you share your DMOC settings with the list?

Thanks,

- Randy

[Terry M Brown]

The truth is that on my original gauge the odo worked, but not the speedo. I just got a replacement a few weeks ago and now my speedo works, but not my odo - YIKES! I had about 1,250 miles on it before the changeover, so I'm thinking it's around 1,500 miles right now - I'm hoping to get that fixed real soon!

 

I'll try to do a DMOC dump in the near future, but I'm training for The Death Ride http://www.deathride.com/ next week, so I'm out on the road on two wheels a lot right now and not in the shop very much!
 

Terry B

---

From: Randy Pollock <ra...@alumni.caltech.edu>
To: 91...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:20:17 AM
Subject: [914ev] Re: Latest DMOC Settings

[David Hale]

hi Terry,

Your commute sounds much like mine, maybe even more strenuous. I have about 800 ft elevation gain over about 14 miles. Going in to work I have the EV-grin; coming home I have the AC/FLA-frown. None of it is particularly steep but after a few minutes on the freeway at 55MPH I overheat, and if something happens that I should have to slow down a little (like a car cuts me off) then I can't recover and I'm at a dangerous 40MPH in a 65 zone. You're telling me you can do 65 up hill?

I would love to see your .par file, and put you in touch with Gary at Electro Automotive. He's been working for weeks on trying to figure out what's wrong with my drive. It's clear I'm losing torque too early (have you ever measured this?) so maybe there is something physically wrong with my system, TBD.

Tell me more about your system... tires, batteries, flywheel, etc.? 0-60? range?

Thanks,

--Dave

[joe.obrien]

How serious is the over heating? I was planning to pull the fans on
the DMOC, and replacing them with a water cooler solution, and putting
the radiator externally. But that was just to keep the controller
'cool' in and otherwise enclosed space (I don't like the idea of
ventilating the trunk).
If the DMOC is seriously getting too hot; I might have to up the
plans.
Joe

[David Hale]

hi Randy,

Last month ElectroAuto had me make the following changes, even a little more drastic than you've tried:

Change EE2NoAccelBat to 115
Change EE2AccelBatRamp to 10
Change EEXTorqueSlew to 500

This gave me a slight improvement; I was able to reach a max speed of 60 MPH whereas previously my max speed was 55 MPH (in about 80-90 seconds or so). Hills still slowed me, however. Not sure if you are talking about the freeway or not, Randy. I'm fine on surface streets but I'm still not what I could honestly call freeway capable. Have you tried hilly freeways? (EG. 210W, which is has ~ 800 ft gain over 14 mi, from Pasadena to Sunland)

--Dave

[David Hale]

I'm not sure how serious is serious, but after a few minutes on the freeway the FAULT light blinks, indicating controller overheating, but I don't usually notice any change in the drive; usually about this time I'm getting off the freeway anyway and the car just keeps going fine. But sometimes the DMOC has cut out on me, which has pretty much scared me from driving the freeway going home (the uphill direction).

[Randy Pollock]

Hi Dave,

On 6/30/09 11:34 AM, "David Hale" <astrono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Last month ElectroAuto had me make the following changes, even a little more
> drastic than you've tried:
>
> Change EE2NoAccelBat to 115
> Change EE2AccelBatRamp to 10
> Change EEXTorqueSlew to 500
>
> This gave me a slight improvement; I was able to reach a max speed of 60 MPH
> whereas previously my max speed was 55 MPH (in about 80-90 seconds or so).
> Hills still slowed me, however.

OK. I'll load these on the way home.

> Not sure if you are talking about the freeway
> or not, Randy. I'm fine on surface streets but I'm still not what I could
> honestly call freeway capable. Have you tried hilly freeways? (EG. 210W, which
> is has ~ 800 ft gain over 14 mi, from Pasadena to Sunland)

No, I have only tried getting on the freeway once going home (uphill). The
closest on-ramp is very steep and very short. I would be merging at 25 MPH.
By the time I get to the next ramp, I might as well stay on surface streets.

I'll look at trying the 210 when I can, but will be out of town for a few
weeks starting soon.

- Randy

[Randy Pollock]

On 6/30/09 11:34 AM, "joe.obrien" <joe.o...@cox.net> wrote:
> How serious is the over heating?

I have EE2BoxTempMax set to 75C with EE2BoxTempRamp at 10C. At 65C,
I'll start loosing power, but usually don't notice it until I get up to
about 68C. This on days above 85F air temperature.

I can't say if my experience is representative of most people's driving.
I am pulling the maximum amps for about five minutes straight. This after
five miles of steady, moderate hills has already warmed the DMOC up to about
55C.

Last night it was just under 90F when I drove home. I had to stop about
a block from my house to let it cool off. With my fans, I can pull over and
the temperature will drop 8C/min. Opening the trunk will let it cool about
15C/min, so I can certainly improve the rate with more air turnover.

I would recommend being careful removing the fans. I've not looked at
the DMOC without the fans, but I suspect it will be very hard to get a
cooling loop in good contact with the critical components. If you decided to
try and top the DMOC top is very flat, I would recommend a copper block the
full width of the DMOC and at least 1/4" thick. Install it with lots of
thermal paste between the DMOC and the copper. The thermal mass of the
copper block will smooth out any bursts of heat and it will be easier to
attach your cooling loops to the copper block than directly to the DMOC.

Good luck.

- Randy

[Terry M Brown]

OK, here's a more elaborate description of my daily commute:

 

I live in a rural area (Grass Valley, CA)

The road I travel daily is 2-lane with a 45 mph speed limit

It is veeeeeeery windy on the steepest part, where those with ICE cars can only go 30-35 due to the curves and my VoltsPorsche does about 30

On the straight part that is still somewhat steep, there are places where 40 is tops for me

I do not drive on the freeway, except for level spots.

 

Today I did not drive the 914, so I can't go outside and check the tires, but they are not low resistance.

 

I'm using 18 8-volt FLA's as specified in the EA kit

 

I've never measured 0-60, partly because we don't have any roads that are level for long enough to measure it.

 

I'm pleased to say that I haven't discovered my range ('cause I don't know how I'd recharge to get home if I was out in the woods). That said, I have driven 60 hilly miles on a charge and it was getting pretty puny by then.
 

Terry B

---

From: David Hale <astrono...@gmail.com>
To: 91...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:33:34 AM

Subject: [914ev] Re: Latest DMOC Settings

[Lou]

any way we cut it, it is about 20 lbs of lead per useable mile driven

---

From: Terry M Brown <tbrow...@yahoo.com>
To: 91...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:34:49 PM

[Dave Hale]

I wasn't paying much attention to this overheating discussion because
it never affected my driving ... until yesterday. Normally, I'm parked
in my garage, drive to work in the morning, park in a garage at work,
then drive home in the evening. But yesterday I washed my car and left
it outside for a few hours. Being Los Angeles, it is hot and sunny. My
first trip of the day, after being parked outside a few hours, as soon
as I turned the key the DMOC fans were running and I couldn't even
make it up my own street at over 10 mph.

The current installation needs some kind of improvement for sunny
climates. Randy may have the right idea, venting the cargo
compartment.

On Jun 30, 12:16 pm, Randy Pollock <ra...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:

[James Messa]

Has anyone considered mounting the DMOC over the AC24 and moving the
batteries to the cargo compartment? Is there enough clearance to put a
shelve over the motor and mount the DMOC where it can get some air? The
specs make it sound like the DMOC should be ok.

Jim

[racunniff]

Interesting idea. The drawback is that you are moving significant
mass (hundreds of pounds) away from the center of the vehicle, which
will make its handling much worse.

There is much to be said for increasing airflow to the DMOC - the
ElectroJeep has it placed where the radiator used to be, and it never
overheats.

I'm considering air scoops of some sort under the car, but I have not
yet figured out how to keep water out. Maybe I'll just go the "add a
monster exhaust fan and inlet" route.

[James Messa]

I was thinking about this after looking at the original DC conversation
where EA put the saddle bags in the cargo compartment. I am just finishing
up my restoration and will start the rebuild/ reassembly shortly. I did not
purchase the kit, but did purchase the adapter from EA and after watching
the post on this group feel like I will not use SLA to drop some weight, so
maybe the shift of the batteries might not be so bad. I live in the sierra
foothills up interstate 80 from Sacramento so I get 100+ degree days a few
times a year and have a lot of mild hills in the area so the overheating
thing may be an issue that I should address in the layout and design. Since
I did not by the kit I can be a bit more flexible in the layout.

[David Hale]

hi Jim,

Which motor / controller / batteries (and count, voltage) do you plan to use? (I don't mean to side-track the overheating thread, but am curious.)

cheers,

--Dave

http://www.evalbum.com/2500

[James Messa]

I already have the AC24LS and DMOC from Azure… Lithium Iron Phosphate 100Ah minimum 144v minimum.  Trying to plan the layout now, that is why I started thinking about putting the DMOC above the motor.  I have also been playing with some PIC microcontroller applications for BMS and to provide instrumentation(a simple window into the DMOC and BMS).  Most of this will depend on time and money.  It is funny how the job get in the way of time and the $$ require the job.  Oh and the wife and kids like to spend the $$ too.