650B cyclocross tires

[Harold Bielstein]

I've scoured the INet machine looking for cyclocross tires in 650B (27.5") diameters but alas … nothing. Anybody know of such a thing in a 38 - 40 mm width?
Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net

[Eric Stocker]

There are none that I know of (I've searched far and wide). HOWEVER, Vee Rubber just came out with a tire, the XCX, that is 27.5x1.95. I've taken a caliper to the tire to get a true measurement, and it's more like 48-49mm. This is the smallest true nobby tire that is available currently, as far as I know.

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[Rick Johnson]

They are usually found wherever hen's teeth are sold.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

On 6/3/2013 2:14 PM, Harold Bielstein wrote:
> I've scoured the INet machine looking for cyclocross tires in 650B (27.5") diameters but alas � nothing. Anybody know of such a thing in a 38 - 40 mm width?
> Hal Bielstein
> hkbie...@rap.midco.net
>
>
>
>
>

[Eric Stocker]

Here are some measurements taken on 650b 28mm Blunt rims:

(95) is the Speedster tire - 48.78mm
(94) is the XCX tire - 48.04mm


Comparatively, the Quasi Motos measures somewhere around 51-52mm, so these are quite a bit smaller.


Hope this helps!

[Fred Blasdel]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Harold Bielstein <hkbie...@rap.midco.net> wrote:

I've scoured the INet machine looking for cyclocross tires in 650B (27.5") diameters but alas … nothing. Anybody know of such a thing in a 38 - 40 mm width?

They don't exist, and there isn't particularly a real-world use for them.

If the terrain is really technical enough that a Pari-Moto or Hetre is really unsuitable, you'll also want to ditch the fenders, and thus have clearance for XC MTB tires.

If what you actually want is a cheap utility tire you can beat the snot out of, the Col de la Vie fits that role well enough.

[Ryan Watson]

Closest I've found are the rare (in the US anyway) 650A CDLV Passhunting model and the super rare GT crossover 700D 1.4 knobbie. The later will actually fit on a 650B Synergy rim. 

Pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7556426@N06/911519369/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7556426@N06/2852905851/

I think it's a useful size: You can take your 650B Randonneur out on the trails or convert a racy 700c bike to a makeshift cyclocross bike. 

Hopefully we'll eventually have a proper 650B 35-40mm knobby!

Ryan

--

[Joe Bunik]

Ryan- funny b/c I was about to chime in with the same, having
intentions to to exactly that on my new 650B-hack-version. In fact, I
have a one NOS set of ex-rswatson GT 700Dx2.0s (which IIRC also work
on the Synergies). I still want a pair of the 590 cdlv passhuntings
though...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/8926420634/

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

[Mike Schiller]

Not yet... but it's only a matter of time. I've heard a few rumors lately but nothing solid.  The Conti Tour ride has a decent tread but it's a rock. 

~mike

[Steve Park]

The "mini-moto" is a unicorn.

It would be terrific if the Clement XPlor MSO 700x40 came in a 650b version.   It is a fantastic low profile knob tire.  Feel free to email Clement about that - I did.

[Mike Schiller]

you are not the only one who has spoken to Clement.... got my fingers crossed. 

~mike

[Steve Park]

Awesome!  Someone from Clement actually got right back to me to ask what kind of bike I use and the kind riding I am doing. 

[Jon Doyle]

Same here. They're probably wondering what's going on!

[David Pertuz]

I had, coincidentally, been wondering the same thing recently. In my case the thoughts were prompted by a ride on dirt roads that were mostly fine on Hetres, but which could have been done with a little more confidence or speed on a CX tire. My Rawland, with its huge clearances, will fit anything (my current in-possession options are Hetres or NeoMotos) but NeoMotos are sort of slow, and I'd like something under 45mm so that I don't have to remove my fenders (the bike is my daily transportation.) I'm intrigued by the new Vee Rubber options and might try one (I think they'll fit under my 55mm fenders) but that Clement tire would be perfect.

David

Chicago

[Steve Park]

40mm is a nice size for the performance reasons you discuss, and it is also great because many 650b frames max out or are very tight (especially between the chainstays) on anything bigger than 42mm.... unlike the Rawland rSogn which has unusually colossal clearance.

[rob perks]

Email sent from my end, and hoping that it carries some weight since I would love to see this tire stuffed into Ramblers before the summer is out.  If a tire like that existed I might even move on a second model in the line, 650b in all sizes.

If anybody has an email other than info@ or the phone number of a human at clement please forward it to me, they have been a bit elusive for me to nail down

-- 

Rob Perks

oceanaircycles.com

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Ventura, CA

 

[mcm...@finestplanet.com]

I run into a similar issue with my Rawland Drakkar, I tour with it, commute with it and enjoy trails and dirt roads but find the quasi motos a bit slow for most of my riding. I am currently running hetres but just ordered a set of the vee rubber speedsters. I should get them tomorrow and will ride em this weekend. I'll post my initial impressions...

michael

[Rick Johnson]

I've been running the Clement XPlor in 700x40 - tubeless - for a couple months and I like them a lot.
As I said here previously, if they made a 650B version I think there would be a lot of happy customers.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible. 
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing. 
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

[Steve Park]

I'm planning on doing this also.  Glad to hear that the MSO worked tubeless for you.

[rcnute]

650b Rock 'n Road!

Ryan

[Leslie Bright]

Rick,

What size rim do you have it mounted on?   What is your actual measured size when mounted?    

I've just gotten a new bike that I'm interested in setting up as a 'gravel-grinder', and I think these would be great tires;  am intending on getting one for the front, but, the back may be cutting it close on clearance...  I'm jsut trying to get a handle of if I'm stretching too far in size thinking about an MSO on the rear, too...   I might need to drop down to the USH in the rear instead....

Thx,

-L

On Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Rick Johnson wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

Given the facts that Cyclocross is a type of race governed by UCI rules,
and those rules now limit the width of cyclocross tires to 35mm (and,
since tires sometimes stretch and expand as they get older to stay safe
in practice many now limit cyclocross tires to a nominal 32mm) is it at
all reasonable to ask companies to make 40mm tires for a sport that does
not allow tires that wide?

[Leslie Bright]

If that logic is strictly adhered to, why want cyclocross tire in 650b at all then?  Just stick w/ 700c.   Or for that matter, why bother with clinchers; don't most racers use tubeless?

It's not that the tire would be used in a true cyclocross race, but that a cyclocross-like tire is useful for other biking needs... 

Clement makes the MSO in 700c-40; plenty of other "cyclocross" tires are available as 700c-38 sizes....  

So....    yeah, I want to see a 650b clincher "cyclocross" tire in wider widths; I want to see the Rock-n-Road in 650b.   I want a narrower 700c Rock-n-Road, say in a 37....

Do I "expect" such?  Eventually... not just from "my" wants, but, from companies being able to meet a need and selling some tires that aren't duplicating others' efforts....

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2013-06-07 at 05:43 -0700, Leslie Bright wrote:
> If that logic is strictly adhered to, why want cyclocross tire in 650b
> at all then? Just stick w/ 700c. Or for that matter, why bother
> with clinchers; don't most racers use tubeless?
>
> It's not that the tire would be used in a true cyclocross race, but
> that a cyclocross-like tire is useful for other biking needs...
>
> Clement makes the MSO in 700c-40; plenty of other "cyclocross" tires
> are available as 700c-38 sizes....
>
> So.... yeah, I want to see a 650b clincher "cyclocross" tire in
> wider widths; I want to see the Rock-n-Road in 650b. I want a
> narrower 700c Rock-n-Road, say in a 37....
>
> Do I "expect" such? Eventually... not just from "my" wants, but, from
> companies being able to meet a need and selling some tires that aren't
> duplicating others' efforts....

So maybe calling it a "cyclocross tire" would be clouding the issue and
misleading the manufacturers, just as calling a bike suitable for this
sort of riding a "cyclocross bike" sends manufacturers and builders down
wrong paths -- where you get into arguments such as over whether a bike
can "truly" be a "real" cyclocross bike if it has water bottle mounts
because after all 'cross races are so short nobody has the time to drink
(and no I am not making this sh*te up, we had a virulent argument on
that very point over on the VSalon Forum a year or two ago).

[Steve Park]

+++what Leslie said.

We are just using the word "cyclocross" because it is something familiar that helps communicate this 650b concept  - a fat tire that is reasonably lightweight with low/medium-profile knobs. Pretty sure that no one in this discussion has much concern about conforming to UCI standards with their adventurous 650b riding.

The Rock N Road is another great 700c parallel!  I recall that BG once mentioned that he was busy managing the 700c production and didn't have plans for a 650b version....maybe there is potential there.

[rob perks]

Many if not most cyclocross races are not UCI governed or sanctioned.  I have been doing a lot of homework on the issue since being asked if the Ramblers would be good cross bikes, and if I could make a stripped down version specifically for cross.  That sent me down the rabbit hole of whether or not Low Trail geometry bikes could ever be brought into UCI race bike compliance without having to make serious design compromises.  Bottom line, there are folks out thee racing "cross" on mountain bikes, 26" and 29", and all manner of other bike short of recumbent.  "Cross" is a wide open term for the style of racing.

Back on track, my poking around has turned over a few stones, there are people in the industry listening, and there will be some knobby 650b tires between 45 and 38mm soon.  Hopefully more than I have found.  All I can say at this point is thank God for Panaracer's willingness to take projects like this on in a world of 100,000 minimums

-- 

Rob Perks

oceanaircycles.com

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Ventura, CA

 

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2013-06-07 at 13:24 -0700, rob perks wrote:
>
> Back on track, my poking around has turned over a few stones, there
> are people in the industry listening, and there will be some knobby
> 650b tires between 45 and 38mm soon. Hopefully more than I have
> found. All I can say at this point is thank God for Panaracer's
> willingness to take projects like this on in a world of 100,000
> minimums

Yes indeed! We'd all be a lot poorer without the Rivendell and Grand
Bois offerings, and a 650B knobby in a range that would fit our 650B
road bikes would be a welcome enhancement.

[Mike Schiller]

I have heard Kirk Pacenti hinting about it a few times but no real commitment. It seems pretty logical that Panaracer, who produces most of the 650B road tires out there would, would be the one to do it.  Although it's not as big a deal to me as mine will just fit a 2" tire and there are now at least 5 or 6 available in that size.

~mike

[Rick Johnson]

I'm running them on Stan's ZTR355 29er rims. As I recall they measured close to a true 40mm when I first mounted them up but I haven't checked them since they've had time to settle.

Today I'm commuting on the moto but I'll recheck the measurements this weekend and get back to you.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible. 
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing. 
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

[Harold Bielstein]

Not a bad call actually. I started this thread asking if anyone knew of a 650B cyclocross tire when my real objective was to build a gravel grinder in 650B. Thus the desire for 35 - 40 mm wide 650B knobbies.

[cyclotourist]

650b Monstercross tires.

Cheers,
David

[Fred Blasdel]

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Harold Bielstein <hkbie...@rap.midco.net> wrote:

Not a bad call actually. I started this thread asking if anyone knew of a 650B cyclocross tire when my real objective was to build a gravel grinder in 650B.  Thus the desire for 35 - 40 mm wide 650B knobbies.

Well I've done the vast majority of my gravel grinding on Hetres and Pari-Motos at low pressures, I own a bunch of knobbies but it's not usually worth putting them on.

In flat to rolling terrain on roads passable to cars (or any MUP) they really give nothing up to a tire with knobs on it.

Tread really just means you can go faster by braking less — the actual advantages are in cornering and what lines you can take when things get steep. You have to be on pretty serious mountain bike trails or in nonstop mud for tire tread to be the difference between riding and walking.

I don't bother to swap the Hetres out unless at least one of these conditions are met, and preferably several:

• thousands of feet of climbing / descending on loose/rough surfaces
• extended time on real singletrack (not reclaimed road or rail right of way)
• little time on paved roads (really for wear life not just rolling resistance)

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2013-06-08 at 03:50 -0700, Fred Blasdel wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Harold Bielstein
> <hkbie...@rap.midco.net> wrote:
> Not a bad call actually. I started this thread asking if
> anyone knew of a 650B cyclocross tire when my real objective
> was to build a gravel grinder in 650B. Thus the desire for 35
> - 40 mm wide 650B knobbies.
>
>
> Well I've done the vast majority of my gravel grinding on Hetres and
> Pari-Motos at low pressures, I own a bunch of knobbies but it's not
> usually worth putting them on.

Fred has posted a lot of information about the new bike he's using for
this riding here:
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f7/my-latest-650b-low-trail-fredmobile-peanut-gallery-33054.html

[Fred Blasdel]

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

> Well I've done the vast majority of my gravel grinding on Hetres and
> Pari-Motos at low pressures, I own a bunch of knobbies but it's not
> usually worth putting them on.

Fred has posted a lot of information about the new bike he's using for
this riding here:
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f7/my-latest-650b-low-trail-fredmobile-peanut-gallery-33054.html

I'd done this kind of stuff on my Rawland rSogn before, but the only time the knobbies came out was if the route included a MTB park, and even then sometimes the Hetres stayed on — just meant braking more before corners (or two-wheel drifting through them)

I did a trip last weekend that had me put knobbies on the new Elephant for the first time:

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/waldo/sets/72157633908084506/

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/dennyt/sets/72157633916427081/

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/lantius/sets/72157633903302269/

You'll note that among my friends there were people on bigger slicks like Paselas, Jack Browns, and Resist Nomads. I could go somewhat faster than them in greater comfort, especially descending and on the singletrack. I could take just about any line I wanted at any speed, where they sometimes had to exercise a little caution — but there were only a few short sections that they had to walk and I could ride.

[Mike Schiller]

nice job with the bike Fred, looks very versatile and balanced.  A great bike for exploring.  With all the new 650B knobbies on the market it seems like a custom  bike that can use both 2.1 knobbies and fit hetres with fenders is the perfect bike.

I've got one in work and should have it in the next month.  I don't have the beautiful forests of the  PNW to ride in but there are many nice trails that can utilize that kind of bike in So Cal.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca.

[Rick Johnson]

Leslie,
The measured width numbers I have for the 700x40 XPlor MSO:

• 41.1mm widest point between knobs.
• 39.1mm average width of casing.
  

Measured on Stan's ZTR355 29er rims at 50psi. Tires have been mounted 2-3 months, run tubeless ~1000 miles at a pressure range of 35-50psi.

Hope that helps with your project.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

*    *    *

On 6/7/2013 5:21 AM, Leslie Bright wrote:

[Leslie Bright]

Thanks Rick!


Verdict:  an MSO, it'd clear in the front, but I need to step down, maybe to the USH, for the rear... 

Appreciate the confirmation!


-L