Quake2 never in Germany !?
Georg Meyer
It seems that Quake 2 will never be out in Germany. So what is the
solution ? get it at warez ? I hope not !
But it is strange to see some other titles like Jedi Knight being sold
very well. So what is the reason that Quake 2 is not out in Germany
though in other european countries the people are playing it ?
Mike Evans
The reason is that your government thinks it is too gory, and did not pass
their test. I guess they don't want to influence any young hitlers out
there. :-)
--
Mike Evans
gev...@atlcom.net
.......
OO
<.
U
Georg Meyer wrote in message <3490767...@news.3dfx.com>...
Joe
Georg...@public.uni-hamburg.de (Georg Meyer) wrote:
>It seems that Quake 2 will never be out in Germany. So what is the
>solution ? get it at warez ? I hope not !
>But it is strange to see some other titles like Jedi Knight being sold
>very well. So what is the reason that Quake 2 is not out in Germany
>though in other european countries the people are playing it ?
I heard the German censor board wouldn't approve it, too violent. I
respect iD's response of just saying "Ok we won't sell it there"
rather than producing a watered-down version ala Carmageddon.
Joe
eps3
Why live in a country where you can't legally buy Quake2?
Are there still machine guns and barb wire keeping people from leaving?
--
******WARNING remove * from email address***************
Georg Meyer wrote in message <3490767...@news.3dfx.com>...
Jon
>It seems that Quake 2 will never be out in Germany. So what is the
>solution ? get it at warez ? I hope not !
>But it is strange to see some other titles like Jedi Knight being sold
>very well. So what is the reason that Quake 2 is not out in Germany
>though in other european countries the people are playing it ?
The reason is because Germany has no constitution declaring the
freedoms of humanity. What's more important is order and allegiance
to the state.
Öllerer
Mike Evans wrote:
>
> The reason is that your government thinks it is too gory, and did not pass
> their test. I guess they don't want to influence any young hitlers out
> there. :-)
Hmm. I don't know where you're from, but i think other countries like
the US needs a censorship more than 'our young Hitlers', because there
is much more violence on the streets!
Sub Zero
M.Schwekutsch
Quake 2 will be available in several stores in germany within a few days.
The stores have to sell it "under the table" (?), and will ask you to proove
that you are at least 18 years old. No advertising allowed...
It'll cost about 79,- DM
Ciao
Michael
Georg Meyer schrieb in Nachricht <3490767...@news.3dfx.com>...
M.Schwekutsch
Mike Evans schrieb in Nachricht <66ptd6$gk1$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>The reason is that your government thinks it is too gory, and did not pass
>their test. I guess they don't want to influence any young hitlers out
>there. :-)
As long as we don't have young hitlers that bomb gouvernment buildings and
kill dozens of people, including kids from a kindergarden....
Ciao
Michael
M.Schwekutsch
Jon schrieb in Nachricht <349081e2....@news.3dfx.com>...
>On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:28:31 GMT, Georg...@public.uni-hamburg.de
>(Georg Meyer) wrote:
>
>>It seems that Quake 2 will never be out in Germany. So what is the
>>solution ? get it at warez ? I hope not !
>>But it is strange to see some other titles like Jedi Knight being sold
>>very well. So what is the reason that Quake 2 is not out in Germany
>>though in other european countries the people are playing it ?
>
>The reason is because Germany has no constitution declaring the
>freedoms of humanity. What's more important is order and allegiance
>to the state.
It's because the germans know that it's important to protect children from
"ultra" violent games. If this kind of protection works is another
question...
It is possible to get that game, if you are 18 or older. But you have to ask
for it in the stores, as advertising is forbidden for "18+ games" here...
Ciao
Michael
Joe
Öllerer <o...@w3d.de> wrote:
>Hmm. I don't know where you're from, but i think other countries like
>the US needs a censorship more than 'our young Hitlers', because there
>is much more violence on the streets!
As if violence is *caused* by lack of censorship - absurd! For gawd
sake, the Americans strong belief in free speech is their best
quality.
Joe
Jon
Well that's a whole different story. I thought Websites were saying
it was banned from Germany for ANYONE. I agree with limited
advertising, just like liquor or cigarettes....Parents need to have
the ability to control what their children see.
"Ultra-violent"(it's hardly Ultra-- I can think of MUCH worse) games
here are rated as well, and you can't buy them as they too are rated.
Are you sure you are for real?
M.Schwekutsch
Jon schrieb in Nachricht <34920f2a....@news.3dfx.com>...
>On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:09:02 +0100, "M.Schwekutsch"
><Michael.S...@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>
>>(....)
>>
>>It's because the germans know that it's important to protect children from
>>"ultra" violent games. If this kind of protection works is another
>>question...
>>It is possible to get that game, if you are 18 or older. But you have to
ask
>>for it in the stores, as advertising is forbidden for "18+ games" here...
>
>Well that's a whole different story. I thought Websites were saying
>it was banned from Germany for ANYONE. I agree with limited
>advertising, just like liquor or cigarettes....Parents need to have
>the ability to control what their children see.
>
>"Ultra-violent"(it's hardly Ultra-- I can think of MUCH worse) games
>here are rated as well, and you can't buy them as they too are rated.
>Are you sure you are for real?
No,
bad news. The BJPS planned to put Quake 2 on the black list. That's a list
of Software that can only be purchased by adults. Advertising or showing the
product in shops is forbidden then. In fact they put it on the red list. So
no german software distributor is allowed to sell it to anyone. Even if the
customer is 100 years old. Thats ugly censorship! Adults should be able to
make their own decision, wether they want to buy a game or not...
The BJPS says it's completely forbidden because humans shoot at humans -
htis is a bad joke, isn't it?
Ciao
Michael
p.s. I'm going to buy it at a mail order software import company - even if I
have to pay some extra $$$$....
Öllerer
> As if violence is *caused* by lack of censorship - absurd! For gawd
> sake, the Americans strong belief in free speech is their best
> quality.
>
> Joe
You speak like a religious fanatic! In history many wars are started by
'gods will'! In every religion!
I mean the americans (surely not all) speak of freedom and equally for
the people, but who discriminated the black ones in the past (and it's
not completely over!)? That's my opinion.
Sub Zero
Joe
"M.Schwekutsch" <Michael.S...@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>htis is a bad joke, isn't it?
Yup. REAL violence, that's no big tell, but PRETEND violence? We gotta
stomp it out man! What we have here is a PR move - that can't/won't do
anything about real violence, so this is their way of pretending to
combat the problem. It's like lazy cops going after two-bit pot
dealers/users just to get a drug-bust on their record - when they
can't (or more likely WON'T) do anything about real drug dealers
(heroin pushers).
Joe
Joe
Öllerer <o...@w3d.de> wrote:
>I mean the americans (surely not all) speak of freedom and equally for
>the people, but who discriminated the black ones in the past (and it's
>not completely over!)? That's my opinion.
So the fact the the Americans have/had race problems means that their
other, different [and admirable] traits should be denigrated? I have
trouble following your logic.
Joe
Dave Glue
Öllerer wrote in message <349128...@w3d.de>...
>
>You speak like a religious fanatic! In history many wars are started by
>'gods will'! In every religion!
>I mean the americans (surely not all) speak of freedom and equally for
>the people, but who discriminated the black ones in the past (and it's
>not completely over!)? That's my opinion.
Opinion..on what?
Has their been rampant racism and discrimination in the US? Yes, without a
doubt. Was that a result of free speech? Provide some facts if you're
actually going to present that laughable theory.
Dave Glue
M.Schwekutsch wrote in message <66qr1e$pki$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
Relax. I don't believe he intended to portray the young males of Germany as
"Hitlers in waiting", rather the *governments* view is that Quake will be of
a negative influence to such a serious degree (which is ridiculous, IMO).
Or do you feel that Quake2 promotes facist behavior?
Dave Glue
M.Schwekutsch wrote in message <66qrbt$q48$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>
>It's because the germans know that it's important to protect children from
>"ultra" violent games. If this kind of protection works is another
>question...
Why is it "important"? Can you provide *any* scientific data which has
shown a direct link between exposure to violent video games and social
disfunction? You don't actually believe the problems of violent youth in
the US are a result of Mortal Kombat and its ilk, do you? It's a far more
complex weave of socio-economic factors than media exposure. Drugs,
poverty, previous abuse and racial tensions are the causes of crime, not
middle-class boys with $3000 PC's hopped up after a session of Quake.
Violent videogames are an OUTLET, not an INLET for aggression. Some of the
most sophmoric and violent people I've met in my days of youth were guys who
would never touch a PC or videogame because that's "nerd stuff".
Jon
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:57:40 +0100, "M.Schwekutsch"
<Michael.S...@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>No,
>
>bad news. The BJPS planned to put Quake 2 on the black list. That's a list
>of Software that can only be purchased by adults. Advertising or showing the
>product in shops is forbidden then. In fact they put it on the red list. So
>no german software distributor is allowed to sell it to anyone. Even if the
>customer is 100 years old. Thats ugly censorship! Adults should be able to
>make their own decision, wether they want to buy a game or not...
>The BJPS says it's completely forbidden because humans shoot at humans -
Do you guys never get action movies or anything? I mean, except for
Flubber, I can't think one any movie that has no violence, and 90% of
movies have humans shooting at humans.
Or is this hypocritical and doesn't apply to movies. That would be
very bad as a system.
Jon
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:05:33 +0100, Öllerer <o...@w3d.de> wrote:
>> As if violence is *caused* by lack of censorship - absurd! For gawd
>> sake, the Americans strong belief in free speech is their best
>> quality.
>>
>> Joe
>
>You speak like a religious fanatic! In history many wars are started by
>'gods will'! In every religion!
>I mean the americans (surely not all) speak of freedom and equally for
>the people, but who discriminated the black ones in the past (and it's
>not completely over!)? That's my opinion.
Discrimination against blacks and other minorities is a sad fault of
American society, but like any large problem, it's getting better.
However, discrimination is now an individual choice, not a government
mandate. The German government is censoring material to all ages
because of it's content. Where does the line between what's
acceptable and not end? Perhaps some things are censored that
"shouldn't" be.
Point is, censorship is a horrific method of social oppression.
There's nothing the American government can do regarding the wanted
distribution of intellectual work by an individual/corp.(except in
special cases such as cryptography -- national security). There are
flaws in this(cloning), but these are mostly reactions to the unknown
and will eventually be overturned.
Gees, what an off-topic rant!
M.Schwekutsch
Jon
It's like that 14-year old kid recently who killed 3 teenage girls and
critically injured 3 others. He supposedly said he did it because of
a movie he watched.
And then there's some kid of a fathers who committed suicide because
of Marilyn Manson music. The father recently told a US Congress
committee this, and one senator commented that he likened it to
"yelling fire in a crowded room". What bullshit. Man, I get scared
when I hear such things!
Different people have different levels of susceptibility to
suggestion. If you are susceptible enough to kill someone because of
video game or movie, you are disfunctional, not the movie/video game.
M.Schwekutsch
Jon schrieb in Nachricht <3491adfd....@news.3dfx.com>...
That's the point. It seems that the BJPS doesn't like ID Software. Think
about the star trek:borg movie. The same kind of aliens (with human
bodyparts) as in quake. The star trek crew (good guys) is trying to kill
them all ( at least). No Problem for the BJPS. As far as I know, even 13
year alod boys were allowed to watch this movie. Splatter and
hardcore-violence movies are free for adults, too, but not the quake 2 game.
Silly censorship...
Ciao
Michael
Dave Glue
Jon wrote in message <3493b27a....@news.3dfx.com>...
>>It's like that 14-year old kid recently who killed 3 teenage girls and
>critically injured 3 others. He supposedly said he did it because of
>a movie he watched.
And it's newsworthy because it's such a freak occurance. So we have one
stupid kid - chances are there would have been _some_ kind of negative
influence in his life to spark a similar incident, movie or not. I always
find it amusing that the people I see who are for censorship of pop culture
most often are the religious right - how about a tally for the number of
murders and violent acts that have occured in the name of Christ? Can I
have an Amen, brother! :)
>Different people have different levels of susceptibility to
>suggestion. If you are susceptible enough to kill someone because of
>video game or movie, you are disfunctional, not the movie/video game.
Very true.
Fiffy
Dave Glue schrieb in Nachricht <66s9hv$b73$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>Why is it "important"? Can you provide *any* scientific data which has
>shown a direct link between exposure to violent video games and social
>disfunction? You don't actually believe the problems of violent youth in
>the US are a result of Mortal Kombat and its ilk, do you? It's a far more
There is no doubt that the amount of violence that kids are exposed to has
risen dramatically in the last few decades. Of course this does not only
concern video games, but also TV, movies and everyday experience
e.g. in school. There is good reason to assume that this results in an
increased willingness of the kids to use violence to solve their problems.
Also it is quite annoying that everytime when a game or something is
affected by the German laws for protection of the youth, some ignorant
American jumps up and starts accusing Germany of censorship or violation
of human rights or similar nonsense. And this is coming from a country
where even harmless movies like "Basic Instinct" are censored because
of some mild sexual content ...
Ken Alverson
What? You are categorizing an entire country by a single person? Think
before you talk! That's like saying US kids are all young Bill Clintons
(not sure which is scarier). The German government censors violence, the US
government censors porn. Neither is perfect.
Ken
Mike Evans wrote in message <66ptd6$gk1$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
Joe
"Fiffy" <fi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>There is no doubt that the amount of violence that kids are exposed to has
>risen dramatically in the last few decades. Of course this does not only
>concern video games, but also TV, movies and everyday experience
>e.g. in school.
Agreed.
>There is good reason to assume that this results in an
>increased willingness of the kids to use violence to solve their problems.
No there isn't - years of sociological research has been utterly
inconclusive on this issue.
>Also it is quite annoying that everytime when a game or something is
>affected by the German laws for protection of the youth, some ignorant
>American jumps up and starts accusing Germany of censorship
But that's exactly what it is, censorship.
Joe
Eric Whalen
Dave Glue wrote:
Amen to that...preach on brother
Dave Glue
Fiffy wrote in message <66sf42$d4g$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>There is no doubt that the amount of violence that kids are exposed to has
>risen dramatically in the last few decades. Of course this does not only
>concern video games, but also TV, movies and everyday experience
>e.g. in school. There is good reason to assume that this results in an
>increased willingness of the kids to use violence to solve their problems.
Why is their "good reason"? Because you "assume" there is? Some of the
most violent and sexist entertainment directed at youth is Japanese anime.
That violence does not carry over into real life for many reasons, be it
cultural reasons (such as an emphasis on the family), a swift and severe
justice system (which can be argued infringes on personal rights), a high
level of education, etc. What I'm saying is that it's ridiculously
simplistic to point to a violent image on a screen, then make the leap of
faith to assume that if a kid is exposed to that, he will act it out. There
are _levels_ of imitation, limits to how dumb even young kids can be. :)
BTW, violent crime has been dropping in the US steadily for the past few
years. When I see some proof that violent video games have actually caused
a jump in violent crime I'll accept the relationship. As it stands now, the
criminals have been in the same demographics they've always been in, before
and after videogames were available.
>Also it is quite annoying that everytime when a game or something is
>affected by the German laws for protection of the youth, some ignorant
>American jumps up and starts accusing Germany of censorship or violation
>of human rights or similar nonsense.
It is censorship, plain and simple. And I'm not an "ignorant American", I'm
a Canadian who likes to have actual reseach done before I "assume" my
opinions and "assumptions" are reality.
>And this is coming from a country
>where even harmless movies like "Basic Instinct" are censored because
>of some mild sexual content ...
No doubt, America has some bizarre self-censorship of its own. They embrace
violence but abhor frank sexual content. This is mostly a discussion on the
cause and effect of violent media exposure, *not* whether I believe America
should be used for the role model of how to run a society. In many cases I
don't, but each nation has good and bad points to extract from its culture
(of course, those shift depending upon your own background). :)
Dave Glue
M.Schwekutsch wrote in message <66sc4q$c46$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>That's the point. It seems that the BJPS doesn't like ID Software. Think
>about the star trek:borg movie. The same kind of aliens (with human
>bodyparts) as in quake. The star trek crew (good guys) is trying to kill
>them all ( at least). No Problem for the BJPS. As far as I know, even 13
>year alod boys were allowed to watch this movie. Splatter and
>hardcore-violence movies are free for adults, too, but not the quake 2
game.
>Silly censorship...
It's mostly adult ignorance and bias against computer and videogame
entertainment as legitimate media. They see a game on a PC, they think
"videogames=kids". They likely can't just accept the fact that PC/Videogame
entertainment is, and *should* be reaching a wider audience and you can't
treat it like it's a pop-up book anymore.
Georg Meyer
>Quake 2 will be available in several stores in germany within a few days.
>The stores have to sell it "under the table" (?), and will ask you to proove
>that you are at least 18 years old. No advertising allowed...
>It'll cost about 79,- DM
>
>Ciao
>Michael
>
>
>Georg Meyer schrieb in Nachricht <3490767...@news.3dfx.com>...
>>It seems that Quake 2 will never be out in Germany. So what is the
>>solution ? get it at warez ? I hope not !
>>But it is strange to see some other titles like Jedi Knight being sold
>>very well. So what is the reason that Quake 2 is not out in Germany
>>though in other european countries the people are playing it ?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
thanks for answering my question ! You were the only person not
talking about political correctness. I didn't want to start a
discussion about living in Germany or not :-( I think people should
not judge Germans (or Germany) knowing NOTHING about Germany.
For my part, I do not know more about America than i learned in movies
<I> :-)
I hope i will get Q2 in any store here in Hamburg, but i talked with a
game trader. He didn't know nothing about the situation. He was
thinking to visit Denmark and get some copies (originals) there to
sell them here.
Fiffy
Dave Glue schrieb in Nachricht <66smg0$fpl$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>>e.g. in school. There is good reason to assume that this results in an
>>increased willingness of the kids to use violence to solve their problems.
>
>Why is their "good reason"? Because you "assume" there is?
Because children learn by watching their environment. If they repeatedly
are demonstrated that e.g. heroes in movies or other children in school are
able
to solve problems using violence they will adapt to this in some way.
>level of education, etc. What I'm saying is that it's ridiculously
>simplistic to point to a violent image on a screen, then make the leap of
>faith to assume that if a kid is exposed to that, he will act it out.
Nobody is saying this. The point is that the increasing acceptance of violence
in general everywhere in our society influences kids in subtle ways. Video
games are a part of this general phenomenon.
>>American jumps up and starts accusing Germany of censorship or violation
>>of human rights or similar nonsense.
>>It is censorship, plain and simple.
No it愀 not. No governmental institution was involved in the decision that
Quake 2
will not be officially distributed in Germany. Activision voluntaryly decided
to take
this step because the USK (a rating board installed by a consortium of
software
distributors in Germany) wouldn愒 give the game a rating.
Joe
"Fiffy" <fi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Because children learn by watching their environment. If they repeatedly
>are demonstrated that e.g. heroes in movies or other children in school are
>able
>to solve problems using violence they will adapt to this in some way.
There is no scientific evidence to support this theory.
Joe
Fiffy
Joe schrieb in Nachricht <66tkg9$oh9$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>>Because children learn by watching their environment. If they repeatedly
>>are demonstrated that e.g. heroes in movies or other children in school are
>>able
>>to solve problems using violence they will adapt to this in some way.
>
>There is no scientific evidence to support this theory.
This argument reminds me a lot of sales people from the tobacco industry who
still insist that smoking doesn´t harm your health because there is no
"scientific evidence".
Joe
"Fiffy" <fi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>Because children learn by watching their environment. If they repeatedly
>>>are demonstrated that e.g. heroes in movies or other children in school are
>>>able
>>>to solve problems using violence they will adapt to this in some way.
>>
>>There is no scientific evidence to support this theory.
>This argument reminds me a lot of sales people from the tobacco industry who
>still insist that smoking doesn´t harm your health because there is no
>"scientific evidence".
I don't know why it should - there is TONS of scientific evidence that
smoking harms your health. That is simply not the case for the
"violent imagery causes violent behaviour" theory. I've read the
research. Totaly inconclusicve.
But hey, why let scientific evidence (on in this case the total lack
thereof) stand in the way of a theory that gives you a great excuse to
suppress people's rights?
Joe
Fiffy
Joe schrieb in Nachricht <66uos4$5rf$2...@www.3dfx.com>...
>But hey, why let scientific evidence (on in this case the total lack
>thereof) stand in the way of a theory
How can a lack of evidence stand in the way of a theory if there is also no
evidence for the contrary? BTW, if you think everything can be based on
"scientific evidence" you are quite naive. There are many topics where science
fails just because of the pure complexity of the problem. This is especially
true for non-exact sciences like sociology.
>that gives you a great excuse to suppress people's rights?
You clearly know next to nothing about Germany. Also there is more than enough
to worry about in your own country, Joe.
Joe
"Fiffy" <fi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>How can a lack of evidence stand in the way of a theory if there is also no
>evidence for the contrary?
So what's your point? That we should endorse censorship just because
something *might* be damaging, even though we've studied it long and
hard and found no proof that it actually is damaging?
>BTW, if you think everything can be based on
>"scientific evidence" you are quite naive.
Do you have fun constructing straw-man arguments like the above? Good
way to avoid talking about the issues at hand I guess. Unless, of
course, you have some method of acquiring sociological knowledge that
has proven more effective than scientific enquiry (i.e., since science
is the *best* tool we have, especially when it comes to debunking
eroneous assumptions).
What was it Huxley said at the end of the first great debate on
Darwin's writings on evolution? Something about how he'd rather be
descended from an ape than from a brilliant man who got invoilved in
scientific questions about which he knew nothing.
>You clearly know next to nothing about Germany.
I know that they banned a harmless computer game.
Joe
Fiffy
Joe schrieb in Nachricht <66vjj7$ecj$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>So what's your point? That we should endorse censorship just because
>something *might* be damaging
Sigh. As I have pointed out time and time again, there is no censorship. But
yes, I think we should keep excessively violent material from kids (i.e.
people under 18 years) just because it *might* be damaging, just as we keep
porn from kids although there is no scientific proof that it harms them.
>I know that they banned a harmless computer game.
No they didn´t. Quake 2 can be legally bought by adults in Germany. Since you
are so focused on scientific methods, you should at least try to get your
facts right before entering a discussion.
Dan Liebster
Fiffy,
Dont confuse Joe
with the facts, his mind is already made up!
\dan
Fiffy wrote in message <6707ae$ki1$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
:No they didn´t. Quake 2 can be legally bought by adults in Germany. Since
:
Joe
"Fiffy" <fi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>But
>yes, I think we should keep excessively violent material from kids (i.e.
>people under 18 years) just because it *might* be damaging, just as we keep
>porn from kids although there is no scientific proof that it harms them.
True, but that's not what's happened here - unless the reports here
are mistaken, Quake 2 can't be sold at ALL in Germany.
Joe
Stupendous Yappi
Historically, the Dutch and Portuguese were the first to start the massive
buildup of slave trade from Africa. 'American' slave trade was almost
entirely Dutch-based before becoming independent.
Not that I'm claiming American innocense, i'm just pointing out your
historical inaccuracy.
Öllerer wrote in message <349128...@w3d.de>...
>> As if violence is *caused* by lack of censorship - absurd! For gawd
>> sake, the Americans strong belief in free speech is their best
>> quality.
>>
>> Joe
>
>You speak like a religious fanatic! In history many wars are started by
>'gods will'! In every religion!
>I mean the americans (surely not all) speak of freedom and equally for
>the people, but who discriminated the black ones in the past (and it's
>not completely over!)? That's my opinion.
>
>Sub Zero
Fritz Schober
>>yes, I think we should keep excessively violent material from kids (i.e.
>>people under 18 years) just because it *might* be damaging, just as we keep
>>porn from kids although there is no scientific proof that it harms them.
>
>True, but that's not what's happened here - unless the reports here
>are mistaken, Quake 2 can't be sold at ALL in Germany.
NO! I live in Germany. Quake2 can be bought at all shops as import.
From USA or UK. So we can buy and play it. But there will be no
GERMAN Version (no german manual and stuff). That's all.
CU
Fritz Schober
PSX/SATURN/N64/P133+RIGHTEOUS3D - I love them all
Check: http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-schobefr/
Joe
fritz-...@netcologne.de (Fritz Schober) wrote:
>NO! I live in Germany. Quake2 can be bought at all shops as import.
>From USA or UK. So we can buy and play it. But there will be no
>GERMAN Version (no german manual and stuff). That's all.
Ok, that's no big deal then.
Joe
mark perkins
Fiffy <fi...@nospam.com> wrote in article <66sf42$d4g$1...@www.3dfx.com>...
>
> There is no doubt that the amount of violence that kids are exposed to
has
> risen dramatically in the last few decades. Of course this does not only
> concern video games, but also TV, movies and everyday experience
> e.g. in school. There is good reason to assume that this results in an
> increased willingness of the kids to use violence to solve their
problems.
>
> Also it is quite annoying that everytime when a game or something is
> affected by the German laws for protection of the youth, some ignorant
> American jumps up and starts accusing Germany of censorship or violation
> of human rights or similar nonsense. And this is coming from a country
> where even harmless movies like "Basic Instinct" are censored because
> of some mild sexual content ...
>
Not so long ago, Holland had an unwilling taste of the way Germans do
things. As a result, they have a very different attitude on censorship to
the Germans. Sadly I find the argument that Germans censor to protect their
kids totally unbelievable. Just listen to the Germans excuse themselves
over the persecution of Scientologists. However, thankfully they will find
the new freedoms of the Internet, including net-Quake II, hard to suppress.
Mark Perkins
Fiffy
mark perkins schrieb in Nachricht
<01bd0c0f$6f57a6e0$fa34...@sheba.demon.co.uk>...
>Not so long ago, Holland had an unwilling taste of the way Germans do
>things. As a result, they have a very different attitude on censorship to
>the Germans.
I live near the German/Dutch border and I have many friends from Holland.
Fortunately most Dutch people are very nice persons and don´t judge today´s
Germans for things their grand parents did more than half a century ago.
>Sadly I find the argument that Germans censor to protect their
>kids totally unbelievable. Just listen to the Germans excuse themselves
>over the persecution of Scientologists. However, thankfully they will find
>the new freedoms of the Internet, including net-Quake II, hard to suppress.
Blah blah.
Chris Jennings
I know how you feel,it's unfare:-(