Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a new
printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to get
the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been
looking at other options.
I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for their
mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight into how
to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its own
(consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the others
exist today and have local hands-on experience.
A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As you add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets easier to narrow down the options..
On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote: > Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a new > printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to get > the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been > looking at other options.
> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for their > mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight into how > to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its own > (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the others > exist today and have local hands-on experience.
> A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
> PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
> I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As you add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets easier to narrow down the options..
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote:
> Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a new printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to get the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been looking at other options.
> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for their mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight into how to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its own (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the others exist today and have local hands-on experience.
My top priority is a machine that won't need constant maintenance. I'm much
better with software tweaking than I am with hardware hacking, and I never
got the cupcake to be physically reliable enough for it to be practical for
me.
I'd prefer a machine that is capable of either rapid printing or
high-quality (some degree of configurability would be good), as some pieces
I plan to print (board game miniatures, etc) would benefit from extra
detail, while other pieces I might just want done sooner, but aesthetics
may not be my top priority. It would be most excellent if it was capable of
building relatively strong parts that could take some load (project boxes,
mounting brackets for light loads, etc), but I probably don't need to
constantly produce ultra-durable prints (not top priority).
I must admit that while I know the concept behind how each of the
production methods (FDM, SLA, DLP) works to create parts, I am relatively
ignorant of what the various properties are of one method over another in
terms of print time, resulting print strength, etc. Seems SLA is slower but
produces better visual quality prints than FDM? Is DLP similar in
time/quality to SLA? How strong/flexible/brittle are the resulting parts
for one method vs another? This is part of why I'm asking for additional
information :)
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think there is now an even more important start point: FDM
> (ulitmaker/makerbot/makergear) SLA (Formlabs) or DLP (B9 Creator)
> How do you want to have the machine make the parts?
> Aaron Double
> On Oct 5, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Dave Durant wrote:
> A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
> PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or
> high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
> I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As you
> add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets
> easier to narrow down the options..
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote:
>> Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a new
>> printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to get
>> the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been
>> looking at other options.
>> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for
>> their mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight
>> into how to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its
>> own (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the
>> others exist today and have local hands-on experience.
For the others they are the same basic process, solidify photo reactive resin.
The formlabs printer uses a blueray laser that solidifies material in a 300 micron path and draws each layer with the laser in 25 micron layers. The build time is quite slow. 8 1.5in tall pawns that they were showing took 18 hours total to print. Currently they are estimating their resin to be $144/liter. Currently in kickstarter for around $2500. Build area is 5.5in x 5.5in x 6.5in. Based out of Cambridge.
The B9 Creator uses a video projector to expose an entire layer at once making a speed increase. There are two projector placement settings for image resolution with two build volumes: Large - 100 micron grid in x and y 25 micron in Z, 4.5in x 3in x 8in. Small 50 micron grid in x and y 25 micron in Z, 2.25in x 1.5 in x 8in. NOTE: Z resolution is adjustable to whatever you want to tune the machine to do. Currently they are charging $100/liter. Out of kickstarter and are in first round of preorders to ship in December for $2500 + $100 shipping (I ordered one)
Seeing both sets of example prints in hand, I was very happy with the detail from both. I personally thought both machines look mechanically robust and with the B9 creator being open source, I decided to go there.
> My top priority is a machine that won't need constant maintenance. I'm much better with software tweaking than I am with hardware hacking, and I never got the cupcake to be physically reliable enough for it to be practical for me.
> I'd prefer a machine that is capable of either rapid printing or high-quality (some degree of configurability would be good), as some pieces I plan to print (board game miniatures, etc) would benefit from extra detail, while other pieces I might just want done sooner, but aesthetics may not be my top priority. It would be most excellent if it was capable of building relatively strong parts that could take some load (project boxes, mounting brackets for light loads, etc), but I probably don't need to constantly produce ultra-durable prints (not top priority).
> I must admit that while I know the concept behind how each of the production methods (FDM, SLA, DLP) works to create parts, I am relatively ignorant of what the various properties are of one method over another in terms of print time, resulting print strength, etc. Seems SLA is slower but produces better visual quality prints than FDM? Is DLP similar in time/quality to SLA? How strong/flexible/brittle are the resulting parts for one method vs another? This is part of why I'm asking for additional information :)
> -Neal
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think there is now an even more important start point: FDM (ulitmaker/makerbot/makergear) SLA (Formlabs) or DLP (B9 Creator)
> How do you want to have the machine make the parts?
> Aaron Double
> On Oct 5, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Dave Durant wrote:
>> A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
>> PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
>> I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As you add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets easier to narrow down the options..
>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote:
>> Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a new printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to get the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been looking at other options.
>> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for their mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight into how to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its own (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the others exist today and have local hands-on experience.
If you’re looking to print stronger parts Type A Machines claims you can “possibly” print polycarbonate. Im sure theres a bit of trial and error involved, i hope to give it a go it soon.
What do you think about the practicality of using a B9 Creator in a classroom vs FDM printers? (chemicals, making a mess, etc.) How easy do you expect it to be to assemble (compared to a thing-o-matic/ultimaker for example).
On Friday, October 5, 2012 1:46:46 PM UTC-4, Aaron Double wrote:
> That was the fun part of makerfaire, I was able to assess all of the > different options personally.
> You already know what FDM is like so I won't go into detail about that but > for printers that I liked, I would say either ultimaker ( > http://www.ultimaker.com ) or type A series one ( > http://typeamachines.com/details )
> For the others they are the same basic process, solidify photo reactive > resin.
> The formlabs printer uses a blueray laser that solidifies material in a > 300 micron path and draws each layer with the laser in 25 micron layers. > The build time is quite slow. 8 1.5in tall pawns that they were showing > took 18 hours total to print. Currently they are estimating their resin to > be $144/liter. Currently in kickstarter for around $2500. Build area is > 5.5in x 5.5in x 6.5in. Based out of Cambridge.
> The B9 Creator uses a video projector to expose an entire layer at once > making a speed increase. There are two projector placement settings for > image resolution with two build volumes: Large - 100 micron grid in x and y > 25 micron in Z, 4.5in x 3in x 8in. Small 50 micron grid in x and y 25 > micron in Z, 2.25in x 1.5 in x 8in. NOTE: Z resolution is adjustable to > whatever you want to tune the machine to do. Currently they are charging > $100/liter. Out of kickstarter and are in first round of preorders to ship > in December for $2500 + $100 shipping (I ordered one)
> Seeing both sets of example prints in hand, I was very happy with the > detail from both. I personally thought both machines look mechanically > robust and with the B9 creator being open source, I decided to go there.
> Hope that helps.
> Aaron
> On Oct 5, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Neal Orman wrote:
> My top priority is a machine that won't need constant maintenance. I'm > much better with software tweaking than I am with hardware hacking, and I > never got the cupcake to be physically reliable enough for it to be > practical for me.
> I'd prefer a machine that is capable of either rapid printing or > high-quality (some degree of configurability would be good), as some pieces > I plan to print (board game miniatures, etc) would benefit from extra > detail, while other pieces I might just want done sooner, but aesthetics > may not be my top priority. It would be most excellent if it was capable of > building relatively strong parts that could take some load (project boxes, > mounting brackets for light loads, etc), but I probably don't need to > constantly produce ultra-durable prints (not top priority).
> I must admit that while I know the concept behind how each of the > production methods (FDM, SLA, DLP) works to create parts, I am relatively > ignorant of what the various properties are of one method over another in > terms of print time, resulting print strength, etc. Seems SLA is slower but > produces better visual quality prints than FDM? Is DLP similar in > time/quality to SLA? How strong/flexible/brittle are the resulting parts > for one method vs another? This is part of why I'm asking for additional > information :)
> -Neal
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com<javascript:> > > wrote:
>> I think there is now an even more important start point: FDM >> (ulitmaker/makerbot/makergear) SLA (Formlabs) or DLP (B9 Creator)
>> How do you want to have the machine make the parts?
>> Aaron Double
>> On Oct 5, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Dave Durant wrote:
>> A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
>> PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or >> high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
>> I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As >> you add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets >> easier to narrow down the options..
>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote:
>>> Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a >>> new printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to >>> get the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been >>> looking at other options.
>>> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for >>> their mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight >>> into how to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its >>> own (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the >>> others exist today and have local hands-on experience.
> What do you think about the practicality of using a B9 Creator in a classroom vs FDM printers? (chemicals, making a mess, etc.)
> How easy do you expect it to be to assemble (compared to a thing-o-matic/ultimaker for example).
> Thanks
> Joe
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 1:46:46 PM UTC-4, Aaron Double wrote:
> That was the fun part of makerfaire, I was able to assess all of the different options personally.
> For the others they are the same basic process, solidify photo reactive resin.
> The formlabs printer uses a blueray laser that solidifies material in a 300 micron path and draws each layer with the laser in 25 micron layers. The build time is quite slow. 8 1.5in tall pawns that they were showing took 18 hours total to print. Currently they are estimating their resin to be $144/liter. Currently in kickstarter for around $2500. Build area is 5.5in x 5.5in x 6.5in. Based out of Cambridge.
> The B9 Creator uses a video projector to expose an entire layer at once making a speed increase. There are two projector placement settings for image resolution with two build volumes: Large - 100 micron grid in x and y 25 micron in Z, 4.5in x 3in x 8in. Small 50 micron grid in x and y 25 micron in Z, 2.25in x 1.5 in x 8in. NOTE: Z resolution is adjustable to whatever you want to tune the machine to do. Currently they are charging $100/liter. Out of kickstarter and are in first round of preorders to ship in December for $2500 + $100 shipping (I ordered one)
> Seeing both sets of example prints in hand, I was very happy with the detail from both. I personally thought both machines look mechanically robust and with the B9 creator being open source, I decided to go there.
> Hope that helps.
> Aaron
> On Oct 5, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Neal Orman wrote:
>> My top priority is a machine that won't need constant maintenance. I'm much better with software tweaking than I am with hardware hacking, and I never got the cupcake to be physically reliable enough for it to be practical for me.
>> I'd prefer a machine that is capable of either rapid printing or high-quality (some degree of configurability would be good), as some pieces I plan to print (board game miniatures, etc) would benefit from extra detail, while other pieces I might just want done sooner, but aesthetics may not be my top priority. It would be most excellent if it was capable of building relatively strong parts that could take some load (project boxes, mounting brackets for light loads, etc), but I probably don't need to constantly produce ultra-durable prints (not top priority).
>> I must admit that while I know the concept behind how each of the production methods (FDM, SLA, DLP) works to create parts, I am relatively ignorant of what the various properties are of one method over another in terms of print time, resulting print strength, etc. Seems SLA is slower but produces better visual quality prints than FDM? Is DLP similar in time/quality to SLA? How strong/flexible/brittle are the resulting parts for one method vs another? This is part of why I'm asking for additional information :)
>> -Neal
>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think there is now an even more important start point: FDM (ulitmaker/makerbot/makergear) SLA (Formlabs) or DLP (B9 Creator)
>> How do you want to have the machine make the parts?
>> Aaron Double
>> On Oct 5, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Dave Durant wrote:
>>> A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
>>> PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
>>> I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As you add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets easier to narrow down the options..
>>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote:
>>> Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a new printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to get the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been looking at other options.
>>> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for their mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight into how to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its own (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the others exist today and have local hands-on experience.
On Sunday, October 7, 2012 3:48:10 PM UTC-4, Aaron Double wrote:
> Hey Joe,
> I'm not sure but when it comes in in December, you are free to come over > and check it out.
> Assembly looks like it'll take a few hours, not bad.
> With endstops and how the machine was printing at the faire, it should be > dead simple to run in a class environment.
> Not sure on the stinkyness of the resin, have to find that one out.
> Aaron
> On Oct 7, 2012, at 12:31 AM, mathisyo...@yahoo.com <javascript:> wrote:
> Aaron, a couple of questions:
> What do you think about the practicality of using a B9 Creator in a > classroom vs FDM printers? (chemicals, making a mess, etc.) > How easy do you expect it to be to assemble (compared to a > thing-o-matic/ultimaker for example).
> Thanks
> Joe
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 1:46:46 PM UTC-4, Aaron Double wrote:
>> That was the fun part of makerfaire, I was able to assess all of the >> different options personally.
>> You already know what FDM is like so I won't go into detail about that >> but for printers that I liked, I would say either ultimaker ( >> http://www.ultimaker.com ) or type A series one ( >> http://typeamachines.com/details )
>> For the others they are the same basic process, solidify photo reactive >> resin.
>> The formlabs printer uses a blueray laser that solidifies material in a >> 300 micron path and draws each layer with the laser in 25 micron layers. >> The build time is quite slow. 8 1.5in tall pawns that they were showing >> took 18 hours total to print. Currently they are estimating their resin to >> be $144/liter. Currently in kickstarter for around $2500. Build area is >> 5.5in x 5.5in x 6.5in. Based out of Cambridge.
>> The B9 Creator uses a video projector to expose an entire layer at once >> making a speed increase. There are two projector placement settings for >> image resolution with two build volumes: Large - 100 micron grid in x and y >> 25 micron in Z, 4.5in x 3in x 8in. Small 50 micron grid in x and y 25 >> micron in Z, 2.25in x 1.5 in x 8in. NOTE: Z resolution is adjustable to >> whatever you want to tune the machine to do. Currently they are charging >> $100/liter. Out of kickstarter and are in first round of preorders to ship >> in December for $2500 + $100 shipping (I ordered one)
>> Seeing both sets of example prints in hand, I was very happy with the >> detail from both. I personally thought both machines look mechanically >> robust and with the B9 creator being open source, I decided to go there.
>> Hope that helps.
>> Aaron
>> On Oct 5, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Neal Orman wrote:
>> My top priority is a machine that won't need constant maintenance. I'm >> much better with software tweaking than I am with hardware hacking, and I >> never got the cupcake to be physically reliable enough for it to be >> practical for me.
>> I'd prefer a machine that is capable of either rapid printing or >> high-quality (some degree of configurability would be good), as some pieces >> I plan to print (board game miniatures, etc) would benefit from extra >> detail, while other pieces I might just want done sooner, but aesthetics >> may not be my top priority. It would be most excellent if it was capable of >> building relatively strong parts that could take some load (project boxes, >> mounting brackets for light loads, etc), but I probably don't need to >> constantly produce ultra-durable prints (not top priority).
>> I must admit that while I know the concept behind how each of the >> production methods (FDM, SLA, DLP) works to create parts, I am relatively >> ignorant of what the various properties are of one method over another in >> terms of print time, resulting print strength, etc. Seems SLA is slower but >> produces better visual quality prints than FDM? Is DLP similar in >> time/quality to SLA? How strong/flexible/brittle are the resulting parts >> for one method vs another? This is part of why I'm asking for additional >> information :)
>> -Neal
>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think there is now an even more important start point: FDM >>> (ulitmaker/makerbot/makergear) SLA (Formlabs) or DLP (B9 Creator)
>>> How do you want to have the machine make the parts?
>>> Aaron Double
>>> On Oct 5, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Dave Durant wrote:
>>> A good place to start is defining what you're going to do with it..
>>> PLA or ABS or both? Mechanical pieces? Minimum build envelope? Fast or >>> high-detail or both? Maximum care & feeding time needed?
>>> I think all printers, even my beloved Ultimaker, have pros & cons.. As >>> you add more definition behind what you want out of a new machine, it gets >>> easier to narrow down the options..
>>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:19:44 PM UTC-4, Neal wrote:
>>>> Wanted to get some local opinions, as I might be looking at getting a >>>> new printer soon (getting tired of investing more in parts for trying to >>>> get the cupcake working). I'm rather wary of MBI these days so I've been >>>> looking at other options.
>>>> I must admit I have no clue how to evaluate the various printers for >>>> their mechanical abilities & reliability, so looking to get some insight >>>> into how to choose the correct one. The form 1 is clearly in a class of its >>>> own (consumer priced stereolithography printer? unheard of?), but the >>>> others exist today and have local hands-on experience.
