Problem 80 wire cable for hard disk
ClueLess
Hi Friends
Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
all the hard disks are recognized.
No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
cable.
How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
--
Thank you for your time and response
ClueLess
Desk Rabbit
And the motherboard make/model is?
And the BIOS version is?
Mike Easter
ClueLess wrote:
> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
This par is ambiguous - fuzzy - to me.
There are two hdd/s; how are they configured on their jumpers, master,
slave, cable select, or what? How big are the hdd/s? What are the
capabilities of the mobo BIOS to recognize hdd sizes?
(You say) There are more than one 80 wire cables; are these (each/all)
configured for multiple devices on a cable, ie the/both blue and gray
connectors? Are you cognizant of how such cables should be connected
according to the drives' jumper configurations?
> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
> all the hard disks are recognized.
This is a 40 wire cable for multiple drives or one only?
> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
> cable.
>
> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
What is a banana motherboard? That term isn't in my hardware
slang/jargon dictionary.
> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
--
Mike Easter
Dan C
You'll have to format the hard drive(s) while using the 40-pin cable, and
then the 80-pin cable will work.
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Yousuf Khan
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> You'll have to format the hard drive(s) while using the 40-pin cable, and
> then the 80-pin cable will work.
Of course, don't follow this advice, at all! He's trying to be a "funny
guy".
Yousuf Khan
Brian Cryer
"ClueLess" <clue...@wilderness.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:j0ino5p7hrvcjpd35...@4ax.com...
The 40 wire cable was used by older IDE drives. The 80 wire cable was
introduced with the advent of Ultra DMA/66, the extra wires serving to
reduce noise. Full story at http://everything.explained.at/AT_Attachment/
As I recall, with the 40 wire cable you needed to use the cable select on
the drive to indicate whether the drive was a slave or master, but with the
80 wire cable it depended on which of the two connectors on the cable it was
plugged into.
If the drive isn't recognised with the 80 wire cable then I'd suspect either
the cable or the IDE logic on the motherboard. So whilst you might think the
cable is fine I'd still try a different cable.
If you can't find anything wrong with it connected via your old 40 wire
cable, then stick with that. I know that transfer rates will be slower, but
probably not so you'd notice.
--
Brian Cryer
www.cryer.co.uk/brian
richard
I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to the same
connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that you CAN'T do
that.
Was the first drive you checked properly initialized and formatted per
maniufacturer's instructions with the provided disk? That's generally why
it isn't recognized. Did the other drives work elswhere?
In the device manager, do you get any errors?
Aardvark
> Are you cognizant of how such cables should be connected according to
> the drives' jumper configurations?
The first thing I thought was that he'd replaced the data cable the wrong
way round (ie the 'master' end at the mobo and vice versa).
Either way, he got one out of three right LOL.
--
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this? Because you want to escape the rule of law.... Guantanamo and the
military commissions are implements for breaking the law."
Charles Swift, Lt. Cmdr.(Rtd.) U.S.N. JAG Corp,
Desk Rabbit
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
>> all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to the same
> connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that you CAN'T do
> that.
Bzzzt! Fail!
http://everything.explained.at/AT_Attachment/
Quote:
"Though the number of wires doubled, the number of connector pins and
the pinout remain the same as 40-conductor cables, and the external
appearance of the connectors is identical."
Aardvark
> I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to the
> same connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that you
> CAN'T do that.
WTF????????????????????????
Aardvark
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:29:13 -0700, richard <mem...@newsguy.com>wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>>
>>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>>
>>> Hi Friends
>>>
>>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>>
>>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>>
>>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
>>> all the hard disks are recognized.
>>>
>>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>>> cable.
>>>
>>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>>
>>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>>
>>I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to the
>>same connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that you
>>CAN'T do that.
>
> Post a link showing the differences between connectors on 40 wire and
> those on 80 wire.
A piece of advice: don't hold your breath for that.
Aardvark
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:07:45 +0000 (UTC), Aardvark
> <aard...@youllnever.know>wrote:
> <exhales> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH <inhales>
>
> Ok, thanks I almost passed out.
Good thing I caught you in time.
VanguardLH
Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire IDE cable.
Only 40 signal wires are used in both. The 80-wire ribbon cable has a
ground wire between each signal wire to reduce cross-talk and noise. It is
still a 40-pin connector to a 40-pin connector setup.
There are some cables that are physically altered (by snipping out a very
short length of one signal wire, or not connecting that signal to the
connector pin, or with a missing connector pin) to make them "cable select"
cables. Rather than you configuring your drives as master and slave, you
configure both to "cable select" and the lack of the signal from controller
to one of the drives makes it the slave. Unless you using a meter to test
each pin of the 40-pin connector at the mobo end to each matching pin in the
other 40-pin connectors to see if all have continuity or if one is open,
just test using a different 80-wire, 40-pin IDE cable.
It's also possible that the 80-wire, 40-pin cable is damaged so one of its
signal lines is disconnected. Just because it worked for years doesn't mean
it was a perfect cable. The connector's pins aren't soldered to the wires.
The ends of the connector's pins are simply split to scissor through the
insulation to make contact with the wired by squeesing the two tangs against
the wire. It's a mechanical connection. This is how, for example, a
Scotchlock splicing connector works. It isn't the most secure or durable
connection. Also, you pulling on the ribbon cable to remove the cable can
cause damage, especially if you wiggle from side to side to waddle the
connector off the header. That's why the better cables come with a nylon or
plastic pull tab that is part of the connector assembly and you pull on that
rather than the ribbon cable.
You never mentioned if the connectors were polarized. If the connector has
no tang (to slide into a matching notch in the shroud around the header
pins) or doesn't use a blank pin 20 (a solid spot where pin 20 would be but
with no hole for a pin to slide into), or the shroud around the headers is
depolarized by having notches on both sides, or the shroud is missing, it's
possible you attached the connector upside down. It's also possible you
didn't slide the connector all the way onto the header pins. It's also
possible one of the female pins inside the connector is loose and didn't
make good contact. Did you ever try a different 80-wire, 40-pin cable?
Rod Speed
All irrelevant given that the original hard drive isnt recognised anymore.
Rod Speed
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> You'll have to format the hard drive(s) while using the 40-pin cable,
> and then the 80-pin cable will work.
That is just plain wrong.
Rod Speed
It should still show up fine on the 80 wire cable.
> If the drive isn't recognised with the 80 wire cable then I'd suspect
> either the cable or the IDE logic on the motherboard. So whilst you
> might think the cable is fine I'd still try a different cable.
Particularly as it isnt hard to get a cable that has the metal
prongs that bite into the ribbon invisibly bent over and just
the act of plugging in the drive can make the fault show up etc.
> If you can't find anything wrong with it connected via your old 40
> wire cable, then stick with that. I know that transfer rates will be
> slower, but probably not so you'd notice.
Makes more sense to work out why it no longer works.
Rod Speed
> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>
> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>
> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
> all the hard disks are recognized.
> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire cable.
You can however get invisible damage wth ribbon cables.
The metal prongs that bite into the ribbon can get bent during manufacture
and the act of removing a drive and plugging in a different one can make the
cable faulty. So try a new 80 wire cable because that is mostly likely the problem.
> How does this happen?
See above.
Rod Speed
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to
> the same connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that
> you CAN'T do that.
Thats just plain wrong.
> Was the first drive you checked properly initialized and formatted per
> maniufacturer's instructions with the provided disk? That's generally
> why it isn't recognized.
Thats wrong too with the bios seeing the drive.
> Did the other drives work elswhere?
> In the device manager, do you get any errors?
It isnt even seen by the bios.
Rod Speed
> ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
> Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire IDE cable.
Wrong. 80 wire cables are usually cable select cables, 40 wire cables usually are not.
> Only 40 signal wires are used in both. The 80-wire ribbon
> cable has a ground wire between each signal wire to reduce cross-talk
> and noise. It is still a 40-pin connector to a 40-pin connector setup.
But isnt identical on the cable select question.
> There are some cables that are physically altered (by snipping out a
> very short length of one signal wire, or not connecting that signal
> to the connector pin, or with a missing connector pin) to make them
> "cable select" cables. Rather than you configuring your drives as
> master and slave, you configure both to "cable select" and the lack
> of the signal from controller to one of the drives makes it the slave.
> Unless you using a meter to test each pin of the 40-pin
> connector at the mobo end to each matching pin in the other 40-pin
> connectors to see if all have continuity or if one is open, just test
> using a different 80-wire, 40-pin IDE cable.
That doesnt explain why the original drive isnt seen anymore.
Aardvark
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 05:59:19 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Thats just plain wrong.
>
> You must be new to this froup. richard = clueless. He knows nothing
> about computers.
Correction- he knows nuttn about nuttn.
philo
> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>
> Hi Friends
>
> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>
> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>
> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
> all the hard disks are recognized.
>
> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
> cable.
>
> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>
> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
The 80 wire cable has failed
get a new one.
The wires are very thin and frail
and it does not take much to ruin one
Believe me I do a lot of computer work
and I've replaced a lot of them that looked perfectly good
More than likely you ruined it when you disconnected it from the drive
you need to be very careful not to pull on the wires
VanguardLH
>> Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire IDE
>> cable.
<which is qualified in a following paragraph regarding cable select>
>
> Wrong. 80 wire cables are usually cable select cables, 40 wire cables
> usually are not.
Get an ohmmeter to test.
http://www.unitechelectronics.com/ide44pinout.gif
(this is the drive header, same pinout as for mobo header; remember to
mirror the image for ribbon connector)
Cable select cables require a pin (#28) not be connected on one of the
device-side connectors. I already mentioned in my prior post how this can
be done. The host adapter grounds this signal (i.e., when connected, the
device sees a ground line). If pin 28 is connected at the device (i.e., the
device sees this signal is grounded), it is the master device. If this pin
is open (floating), that device is the slave.
Just get a continuity tester to determine in pin 28 is open on one of the
device connectors on the ribbon cable. I have 80-wire, 40-pin cables that
have pin 28 connected and some where it is open. I have not seen a
predominance of one or the other to claim a "usual" configuration, and
because of this is why I test. It all depends on who manufactured the
cable. For example, the manufacturer might want that same 80-wire cable to
be usable in 40-wire cable setups so they feed pin 28 to all connectors.
The same holds true as to whether the connector or shroud are polarized with
a tang or notch, if depolarized by the absense of a tang or having notches
on both sides of the shroud, or if pin 20 is used as a polarizing key (by
pin 20 missing in header and blocked or solid in the connector). You have
to look. For cable-select or not enforced in the manufacture of a 80-wire
ribbon cable, you have to check with a continuity check.
If the connectors on the ribbon cable are color coded, I would suspect
cable-select was enforced through the physical connections as follows:
- Blue: Motherboard. Pin 28 connected.
- Black: Master device. Pin 28 connected.
- Gray: Slave device. Pin 28 not connected.
But I'd still check pin 28 with a continuity tester to make sure. You may
not have cable-enforced cable-select with some 80-wire ribbon cables (i.e.,
pine 28 goes to all connectors) when you want to use cable-select on the
device jumpers. You may not want cable-enforced cable-select if you are
using jumpers on the devices to configure them as master and slave. Whether
you have a cable-select cable is something you should really test.
Desk Rabbit
without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.
thund3rstruck
> I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to the same
> connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that you CAN'T do
> that.
Connectors are the same for the 80 as the 40
> Was the first drive you checked properly initialized and formatted per
> maniufacturer's instructions with the provided disk? That's generally why
> it isn't recognized. Did the other drives work elswhere?
The bios should see it if it's configured right via
jumpers/connector/etc. Formatting or not does not matter
> In the device manager, do you get any errors?
If the drive on ide0 isn't seen, how can he boot to Windows, much less
check DevMgr?
n0i
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire IDE cable.
> <which is qualified in a following paragraph regarding cable select>
So that claim is just plain wrong. There is in fact that very real difference.
>> Wrong. 80 wire cables are usually cable select cables, 40 wire cables usually are not.
> Get an ohmmeter to test.
Dont need one. I use the ATA standard.
<reams of you proving what I said flushed where it belongs>
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Desk Rabbit wrote
>>>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>>>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>>>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>>>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>>>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>>>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>>>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>>>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80
>>>> wire cable.
>>>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>>>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>>> And the hard drive make/model is?
>>> And the motherboard make/model is?
>>> And the BIOS version is?
>> All irrelevant given that the original hard drive isnt recognised anymore.
> Any information is useful at this point.
Wrong again.
> It may be a known problem
Bet it isnt.
> but without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.
Wrong again. The obvious thing to try is a another 80 wire cable and check that the
drive connectors are being plugged in the right way around if they arent polarised.
Rod Speed
> Long before 80 wire and UDMA 5 came to fruition.
And so did Compaq.
Desk Rabbit
Without facts and information ant diagnostic is just pure guesswork.
>
>> It may be a known problem
>
> Bet it isnt.
Could be, maybe not. 50-50 chance of guessing correctly. 100% success
with correct information.
>
>> but without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.
>
> Wrong again. The obvious thing to try is a another 80 wire cable and check that the
> drive connectors are being plugged in the right way around if they arent polarised.
I strongly suggest you go back and read the OP's message fully before
you dig yourself a deeper hole than you are already in. I'll draw your
VanguardLH
Good luck trying to configure 2 hard drives to use cable select when the
80-wire cable that you happen to use has pin 28 connected on both device
connectors.
ClueLess
>Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>
>Hi Friends
>
>Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>
Here are some clarifications:
Mercury 845GL mobo
Only one drive checked at a time.
The drives checked are all Seagate 80 gb
The original hard disk was working for years with the 80 conductor
cable, correctly mounted - blue end on mobo, hard drive at the end,
set as master.
Only after I checked with another similar hard disk that the problem
started.
I have tried several 80 conductor cables and none work.
All the drives are recognized without exception when using the 40
conductor cable.
I have been using computers since CP/M days and assemble my own when
required but this has got me stumped.
I am very happy at the enthusiastic response from so many of you but
the explanation still eludes :-(
--
ClueLess
Rocky
computer.
"ClueLess" <clue...@wilderness.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:j0ino5p7hrvcjpd35...@4ax.com...
> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>
> Hi Friends
>
> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>
> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>
> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
> all the hard disks are recognized.
>
> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
> cable.
>
> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>
> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> --
> Thank you for your time and response
>
> ClueLess
philo
Then the cables are bad
I suggest you try a new one
thund3rstruck
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0500, thund3rstruck
> <thund3rstruck_n0i@live> wrote:
>
>> If the drive on ide0 isn't seen, how can he boot to Windows, much less
>> check DevMgr?
>
>
> That's richard going bye-bye.
This isn't even fun anymore...lol
n0i
Rod Speed
>> Wrong again.
And I told the OP how to diagnose the problem. No guesswork whatever involved.
>>> It may be a known problem
>> Bet it isnt.
> Could be, maybe not. 50-50 chance of guessing correctly.
Wrong again. There is a much lower proobability than that that your guess is correct.
> 100% success with correct information.
Not with the information you requested there wont be.
>>> but without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.
>> Wrong again. The obvious thing to try is a another 80 wire cable and check that the drive connectors are being
>> plugged in the right way around if they arent polarised.
> I strongly suggest you go back and read the OP's message fully
I know what the OP said.
> before you dig yourself a deeper hole than you are already in.
You're the one desperately attempting to bullshit its way out if its predicament.
> I'll draw your attention to the particular sentence which says:
> "I tried also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go."
Doesnt eliminate the possibility that the OP isnt putting the drive connector
on the wrong way around with a non polarised connector on the cable.
Rod Speed
Irrelevant to the fact that your original is just plain wrong.
And fuck all 80 wire cables are like that anyway.
And the OP said that more than one 80 wire cable had been tried.
Buffalo
philo wrote:
>
>
> Then the cables are bad
>
> I suggest you try a new one
Well. he actually said he did try different 80 wire cables in the original
post.
C'mon Philo. :)
Buffalo
PS: Then again, you may be correct in that all the 80 wire cables are bad.
H'mm, perhaps that is why he had them: forgot to throw them away. :)
Rod Speed
> ClueLess <clue...@wilderness.org.invalid> wrote
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk
>> using the 80 wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
> Here are some clarifications:
> Mercury 845GL mobo
> Only one drive checked at a time.
> The drives checked are all Seagate 80 gb
> The original hard disk was working for years with the 80 conductor
> cable, correctly mounted - blue end on mobo, hard drive at the end,
> set as master.
You didnt say if the drive connectors or the motherboard end are polarised.
> Only after I checked with another similar hard disk that the problem started.
> I have tried several 80 conductor cables and none work.
> All the drives are recognized without exception when using the 40 conductor cable.
And that should happen with an 80 wire cable too.
> I have been using computers since CP/M days and assemble
> my own when required but this has got me stumped.
> I am very happy at the enthusiastic response from so many of you but the explanation still eludes :-(
Most likely you arent putting the connector in the right way around with the
80 wire cables, or its some weird effect with that particular motherboard.
The motherboard does decide if the 80 wire cable is a cable
select cable from what it can see of the cable, its possible
that that detection has now failed but thats not very likely at all.
Are the drives jumpered for cable select ? I guess its possible
that they arent and someone had to kludge around a failure of
the bios to detect the drive initially and that kludge got bypassed
with the attempt to test a different drive or something.
philo
Yes I read that
but he did not say he tried a *new* cable like I suggested
my guess is he pulled ones out of his junk box
those things really fail pretty easily if you pull them out of the HD
I like the ones that have the tab you can grasp and not strain the wiring
Buffalo
Yeah, I can see that. I was an electrician by trade and the carpenters would
always bitch about their plugs (cord caps) going bad.
They almost always pulled them out of the socket (wall outlet) by yanking on
the cord. :)
Buffalo
philo
LOL
at least with the Milwaukee tools
the cord is easily replaceable
Desk Rabbit
Translation: Shit! He's right, better launch an attack.
>
>> I'll draw your attention to the particular sentence which says:
>
>> "I tried also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go."
>
> Doesnt eliminate the possibility that the OP isnt putting the drive connector
> on the wrong way around with a non polarised connector on the cable.
>
>
Indeed it doesn't but one can reasonable assume that he roughly knows
what he is doing in terms of putting cables on the right way round as
the 40 pin cable works.
Please feel free to carry on clutching at random straws, you might hit
on a solution by sheer luck eventually ;-)
Mike Easter
> The drives checked are all Seagate 80 gb
My Seagate 80G jumpers are
1000 master or single drive
0000 slave
0100 cable select (default)
0001 limit apparent drive capacity
orient: data jumpers power
How are your jumpers set?
--
Mike Easter
Buffalo
philo wrote:
[snip]
>>> I like the ones that have the tab you can grasp and not strain the
>>> wiring
>>
>> Yeah, I can see that. I was an electrician by trade and the
>> carpenters would always bitch about their plugs (cord caps) going
>> bad.
>> They almost always pulled them out of the socket (wall outlet) by
>> yanking on the cord. :)
>> Buffalo
>>
>>
>
>
> LOL
>
> at least with the Milwaukee tools
>
> the cord is easily replaceable
:)
nobody >
> I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to the same
> connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that you CAN'T do
> that.
Huh? Same 40-pin connector.
> Was the first drive you checked properly initialized and formatted per
> maniufacturer's instructions with the provided disk? That's generally why
> it isn't recognized. Did the other drives work elswhere?
Another Huh? moment.. the OP stated it didn't show in BIOS.
> In the device manager, do you get any errors?
If it ain't in the BIOS, it ain't gonna be in Device Mangler.
Another one for the RtS playbook of screwups...
Rod Speed
>>>> Wrong again.
>>>> Bet it isnt.
And it turns out that when he posted that info, it isnt.
>>> Could be, maybe not. 50-50 chance of guessing correctly.
>> Wrong again. There is a much lower proobability than that that your guess is correct.
>>> 100% success with correct information.
>> Not with the information you requested there wont be.
>>>>> but without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.
>>>> Wrong again. The obvious thing to try is a another 80 wire cable and check that the drive connectors are being
>>>> plugged in the right way around if they arent polarised.
>>> I strongly suggest you go back and read the OP's message fully
>> I know what the OP said.
>>> before you dig yourself a deeper hole than you are already in.
>> You're the one desperately attempting to bullshit its way out if its predicament.
> Translation: Shit! He's right, better launch an attack.
Real Translation: of your shit, I never ever could bullshit my way out of a wet paper bag.
>>> I'll draw your attention to the particular sentence which says:
>>> "I tried also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go."
>> Doesnt eliminate the possibility that the OP isnt putting the drive connector on the wrong way around with a non
>> polarised connector on the cable.
> Indeed it doesn't but one can reasonable assume that he roughly knows what he is doing in terms of putting cables on
> the right way round as the 40 pin cable works.
You dont even know where they are polarised and the 80 wire cable connectors arent.
> Please feel free to carry on clutching at random straws, you might hit on a solution by sheer luck eventually ;-)
You never did. He posted the info you wanted and it turned out that it didnt help.
Funny that.
Hilarious, actually.
Have fun bullshitting your way out of that.
rf
"nobody >" <useneth...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0tOdnaQvyuZCChHW...@supernews.com...
I'm waiting for him to come back calling everyone idiots. He usually has at
least one swipe before going poof and disappearing.
VanguardLH
> Irrelevant to the fact that your original is just plain wrong.
Yes, we've seen that you are trying to deny reality regarding that some
80-wire cables have pin 28 attached and some do not.
> And fuck all 80 wire cables are like that anyway.
Are like what? Some have pin 28 attached, others don't. So "like that"
means what? That you don't know until you test?
> And the OP said that more than one 80 wire cable had been tried.
Not at the time that I posted. The OP said they switched from the 80-wire
cable to a 40-wire cable, not that another 80-wire cable had been tested.
Reread the *original* post which is to what I replied. Sorry, but my
crystal ball is in the shop so I couldn't see that the OP would later say.
VanguardLH
> Get a clue. Real men don't use PATA cables anymore! Time for a new
> computer.
Real men don't care what other men think.
Rocky
> Get a clue. Real men don't use PATA cables anymore! Time for a new
> computer.
That makes the third news server this year that will not let you post
with my e-mail address again.
http://Jeff.on.JusticeGoneWild.com
Rocky
Desk Rabbit
Hilarious that another poster was able to post the correct jumper
settings for the drive because now we know what the OP has.
> Hilarious, actually.
>
> Have fun bullshitting your way out of that.
>
>
Have fun repeatedly swapping cables and wibbling about which way round
they should go. It's really quite amusing to watch.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Irrelevant to the fact that your original is just plain wrong.
> Yes, we've seen that you are trying to deny reality regarding
> that some 80-wire cables have pin 28 attached and some do not.
Everyone can see you are lying, as always.
>> And fuck all 80 wire cables are like that anyway.
> Are like what? Some have pin 28 attached, others don't.
Fuck all are not cable select cables, fool.
> So "like that" means what? That you don't know until you test?
>> And the OP said that more than one 80 wire cable had been tried.
> Not at the time that I posted.
Another lie. The OP said that in the original post, liar.
> The OP said they switched from the 80-wire cable to a 40-wire
> cable, not that another 80-wire cable had been tested.
Another lie. The original post says
>>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk
>>> using the 80 wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so
>>> I swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized.
>>> Then I connected the original hard disk and it was also not
>>> recognized. I tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the
>>> same result. I tried also other hard disks as well other 80
>>> wire cables, still no go.
There it is, you're too stupid to have even noticed.
> Reread the *original* post which is to what I replied.
Done that. You lie.
> Sorry, but my crystal ball is in the shop so I couldn't see that the OP would later say.
Thats what the OP said in the original post, you pathetic excuse for a lying bullshit artist.
Rod Speed
> ClueLess <clue...@wilderness.org.invalid>wrote
>> ClueLess <clue...@wilderness.org.invalid> wrote
>>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk
>>> using the 80 wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>> Here are some clarifications:
>> Mercury 845GL mobo
>> Only one drive checked at a time.
>> The drives checked are all Seagate 80 gb
>> The original hard disk was working for years with the 80 conductor
>> cable, correctly mounted - blue end on mobo, hard drive at the end,
>> set as master.
>> Only after I checked with another similar hard disk that the problem started.
>> I have tried several 80 conductor cables and none work.
>> All the drives are recognized without exception when using the 40 conductor cable.
>> I have been using computers since CP/M days and assemble
>> my own when required but this has got me stumped.
>> I am very happy at the enthusiastic response from
>> so many of you but the explanation still eludes :-(
> Have you tried a new, unopened package 80 wire cable? I can't imagine
> an IDE controller knowing the difference between 40 and 80 wires
They do actually. The two cables look different to the motherboard.
> unless there is something wrong with it in that it
> is sensitive to a difference in cable impedence.
One of the pins on the motherboard connector is different.
> I would assume an 80 wire cable has a difference in impedence vs a 40 wire.
That effect isnt used.
Rod Speed
>>>>>> Wrong again.
>>>>>> Bet it isnt.
>>>> You're the one desperately attempting to bullshit its way out of its predicament.
>>> Translation: Shit! He's right, better launch an attack.
>> Real Translation: of your shit, I never ever could bullshit my way out of a wet paper bag.
>>>>> I'll draw your attention to the particular sentence which says:
>>>>> "I tried also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go."
>>>> Doesnt eliminate the possibility that the OP isnt putting the drive connector on the wrong way around with a non
>>>> polarised connector on the cable.
>>> Indeed it doesn't but one can reasonable assume that he roughly knows what he is doing in terms of putting cables on
>>> the right way round as the 40 pin cable works.
>> You dont even know where they are polarised and the 80 wire cable connectors arent.
>>> Please feel free to carry on clutching at random straws, you might hit on a solution by sheer luck eventually ;-)
>> You never did. He posted the info you wanted and it turned out that it didnt help.
>> Funny that.
> Hilarious that another poster was able to post the correct jumper
> settings for the drive because now we know what the OP has.
The OP could have checked that for itself if told to do that without knowing what drive it was.
>> Hilarious, actually.
>> Have fun bullshitting your way out of that.
> Have fun repeatedly swapping cables and wibbling about which way round they should go. It's really quite amusing to
> watch.
Like I said, you never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
Desk Rabbit
>
>>> Hilarious, actually.
>
>>> Have fun bullshitting your way out of that.
>
>> Have fun repeatedly swapping cables and wibbling about which way round they should go. It's really quite amusing to
>> watch.
>
> Like I said, you never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
Here's a small task for you. Rearrange the following into a well know
phrase or saying. Pot kettle calling black the.
Clue, try randomly juggling the words around until it makes sense.
larry moe 'n curly
ClueLess wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess
> <clue...@wilderness.org.invalid> wrote:
> >Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
> >wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
> Only one drive checked at a time.
> The drives checked are all Seagate 80 gb
> The original hard disk was working for years with the 80 conductor
> cable, correctly mounted - blue end on mobo, hard drive at the end,
> set as master.
>
> Only after I checked with another similar hard disk that the problem
> started.
>
> I have tried several 80 conductor cables and none work.
>
> All the drives are recognized without exception when using the 40
> conductor cable.
I don't know if it matters, but why do you have the HD set to Master
instead of to Cable Select? I thought with a standard 80-wire IDE
cable, the cable itself distinguished Master from Slave, by having the
wire for pin 28 connected only to the Master. I've had problems when
I didn't choose Cable Select. OTOH with external drive enclosures
that contained a short 80-wire IDE cable, Cable Select didn't work
because the signal lines for the cable were wired just like a 40-wire
cable's, so the drive had to be set to Master.
Rod Speed
>>>>>>>> Wrong again.
>>>>>>>> Bet it isnt.
>>>> Funny that.
> Wriggle, squirm.. ROFL!
You never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>>>> Hilarious, actually.
>>>> Have fun bullshitting your way out of that.
>>> Have fun repeatedly swapping cables and wibbling about which way round they should go. It's really quite amusing to
>>> watch.
>> Like I said, you never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
<reams of your puerile silly shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>