Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.
bones...@gmail.com
give Linux Ubuntu a chance.
I had read all kinds of great, positive information about this version
of Linux so I was looking forward to a change of pace.
Seeing as I have never used Linux before, Ubuntu seemed to get the
most hits on Google so I went for it.
All I can say is thank God I didn't pay anything for this piece of
crap.
Really makes me wonder why Linux is free. I suppose that's the only
way they can unload it on unsuspecting people like me.
Holy shit!
Virtually nothing works.
I can't play my mp3 files.
My porn doesn't play.
My prionter does not print.
My wireless network keeps dropping the connection.
My 8 button mouse is now a 2 buton mouse.
My widescreen LCD display is now displaying a frequency error box in
the middle of the desktop.
My ATI TV card won't work.
I select help in various progams and I am met by a dialog box saying
"Help has Not been Written Yet, if I would like to Contribute please
contact etc"
So now I have to write my own programs?
I could go on but why bother?
Anyone who wonders why Linux is stillborn should give Ubuntu a try and
find out for themselves.
Linux sucks.
Robin T Cox
> After a not so great experience 'upgrading' to Vista
Tell us about your experiences with Vista, now that you have upgraded.
On second thoughts, don't bother.
Gordon
news:1191704300....@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Virtually nothing works.
Crap
> I can't play my mp3 files.
Crap
> My porn doesn't play.
Says it all.....
> My prionter does not print.
Bollocks
> My wireless network keeps dropping the connection.
More crap
> My 8 button mouse is now a 2 buton mouse.
Balls
> My widescreen LCD display is now displaying a frequency error box in
> the middle of the desktop.
More crap
> My ATI TV card won't work.
Try plugging it in. Crap.
Moron.
Léonard Kai Schönitz
bones...@gmail.com
Notice the 'bury the head in the sand, it can't be true' reaction of
the Linux zealots.
As for Vista, it sucked.
Didn't support my hardware and ran like shit.
As for Linux, Ubuntu, it ran worse than shit.
Vista stinks but Linux is free and stinks even worse.
How the hell can you nuts justify something that is free yet virtually
nobody is using it?
It's like VD.
It's free, many people get it, few pay for it, most wish they never
got it.
That's Linux.
bones...@gmail.com
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> qones4jo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> [Snip - troll]
>
> And you just have *oh* so much credibility when posting anonymously
> through through an open proxy:
>
> http://www.aliveproxy.com/proxy-checker/?i=216.89.101.4&p=80
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFHB/igd1ZThqotgfgRAlU2AJ9E579iGGsGn4PZkfEnr7ySeNrZigCffr+f
> OyTXVq4UDgFXiNbd4hQ8LqU=
> =JyXR
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> PeKaJe
>
> Less is more or less more
> -- Y_Plentyn on #LinuxGER
Notice the total inability to discuss the topic and the need to keep
the thread stifled in COLA instead of trying to debate it elsewhere
where people with no axe to grind might comment on their negative
Linux experiences.
Typical COLA zealot.
A frightened fool.
Gordon
news:1191705021....@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Umm I have NO "negative" Linux experiences.....it just errr works......
Robin T Cox
> Vista stinks but Linux is free and stinks even worse.
So what are you using now?
Gordon
news:fe8u30$ec7$2...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> If it works so great, why are so few people using it?
Because, up until a year or so ago, due to Microsoft's predatory marketing
practices, the consumer had NO CHOICE - they were unable to buy a machine
from any of the large vendors with Linux pre-installed. And as we all know -
people use what they are given.
Mike Easter
bones...@gmail.com wrote:
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, comp.os.linux.advocacy,
24hoursupport.helpdesk, microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
User-Agent: G2/1.0
<snip>
> Linux sucks.
Oh lookee. A crossposting googlegrouper troll instigating.
--
Mike Easter - anti-crossposter
Any crossposting with which I disagree
has been trimmed away in my own reply
TJ
@corp.supernews.com:
> Posted to 24hshd only.
>
> bones...@gmail.com wrote:
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> 24hoursupport.helpdesk, microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> User-Agent: G2/1.0
>
> <snip>
>
>> Linux sucks.
>
> Oh lookee. A crossposting googlegrouper troll instigating.
Who's spittle I would have never seen had you not reposted at least part of
it.
Stephan Rose
> After a not so great experience 'upgrading' to Vista, I decided to give
> Linux Ubuntu a chance.
> I had read all kinds of great, positive information about this version
> of Linux so I was looking forward to a change of pace. Seeing as I have
> never used Linux before, Ubuntu seemed to get the most hits on Google so
> I went for it.
>
> All I can say is thank God I didn't pay anything for this piece of crap.
> Really makes me wonder why Linux is free. I suppose that's the only way
> they can unload it on unsuspecting people like me. Holy shit!
> Virtually nothing works.
> I can't play my mp3 files.
I have a whole collection for my MP3 player that works just fine.
> My porn doesn't play.
Watched some this afternoon...HD Quality too.
> My prionter does not print.
Printed on my HP Color laser printer tonight.
> My wireless network keeps dropping the connection.
Works perfectly on my laptop.
> My 8 button mouse is
> now a 2 buton mouse.
Let's see...5 button mouse and 5 buttons work.
>My widescreen LCD display is now displaying a
> frequency error box in the middle of the desktop.
Seeing how I'm reading this, my LCD must work huh? Oh btw, so does my
plasma TV hooked up to the second DVI.
> My ATI TV card won't work.
Now that one I can't comment on.
> I select help in various progams and I am met by a dialog box saying
> "Help has Not been Written Yet, if I would like to Contribute please
> contact etc"
Seeing how you're just whining and not asking for help, you're beyond
help anyway.
>
> So now I have to write my own programs?
>
> I could go on but why bother?
Yea, why bother...just pack up your computer in the box it came in and
send it back. It'll be best for you.
>
> Anyone who wonders why Linux is stillborn should give Ubuntu a try and
> find out for themselves.
Been using it all year long. Using it right now. Quite successfully I
might add.
> Linux sucks.
Naw, your main problem simply exists between keyboard and chair. Now
maybe, if instead of whining and moaning about your problems, you'd ask
for help and questions...you might receive that.
But you apparently are only interested in trolling I suppose...
--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6
君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは
君のこと忘れたときがないから
Mike Easter
> "Mike Easter"
>> Oh lookee. A crossposting googlegrouper troll instigating.
>
> Who's spittle I would have never seen had you not reposted at least
> part of it.
Errm. I cited two words for 'context' and the newsgroups + commas,
which crossposting I presume you are filtering on, besides whatever you
might do with GG in general.
Or is your strategy to filter everything that references the GGer
regardless of the crossposting?
--
Mike Easter
TJ
> TJ wrote:
>> "Mike Easter"
>
>>> Oh lookee. A crossposting googlegrouper troll instigating.
>>
>> Who's spittle I would have never seen had you not reposted at least
>> part of it.
>
> Errm. I cited two words for 'context'
Which is precisely why I said "part" of it. I kinda figured there was
more, but had no way of knowing since I can't see 'original'
groper-posts any longer unless somebody comes along (that would be you)
and quotes and attributes them for whatever reason. Which is, of
course, your choice.
> and the newsgroups + commas,
> which crossposting I presume you are filtering on, besides whatever
> you might do with GG in general.
There's no need to filter crossposting GGer's with Xnews. You just
write the score-file as it pertains to the message ID, make it 'global'
and you never see a post from a google-groper ever again.
> Or is your strategy to filter everything that references the GGer
> regardless of the crossposting?
I have Xnews set to filter on the message ID. So I suppose it MAY stand
to reason that if you include a groper's message ID in your attribution,
I would not see it. However, I do NOT have XNews set to filter on the
"reference header". Nor am I sure it's even possible. But I'll bet the
Shark would know. :-)
Mike Easter
> "Mike Easter"
>> TJ wrote:
>
>>> "Mike Easter"
>>
>>>> Oh lookee. A crossposting googlegrouper troll instigating.
>>>
>>> Who's spittle I would have never seen had you not reposted at least
>>> part of it.
>>
>> Errm. I cited two words for 'context'
>
> Which is precisely why I said "part" of it. I kinda figured there was
> more, but had no way of knowing since I can't see 'original'
> groper-posts any longer unless somebody comes along (that would be
> you) and quotes and attributes them for whatever reason.
But Gordon posted 9 lines of it in news:fe8t7v$lgi$1...@news.mixmin.net or
http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursupport.helpdesk/msg/86f012ae13e5f4e6
or http://snipr.com/1rusq
... so you (or your newsserver) must've filtered his post somehow, if
you had never seen those parts of it he cited.
> write the score-file as it pertains to the message ID, make it
> 'global' and you never see a post from a google-groper ever again.
Ah, so. I see. Many newsreaders are configured to create attributions
with a lot of 'stuff' in there, like the mid, which I have configured to
exclude. I only attribute with the handle, no from addy (unless there's
no /other/ handle), no date/time, no mid, no cutesy wordjunk - just very
very short. So my attribution didn't cite the GG mid in the
attribution, so you saw my message with the 2 word cite. I get it.
> So I suppose it MAY
> stand to reason that if you include a groper's message ID in your
> attribution, I would not see it.
--
Mike Easter
Frank
We've heard that lame excuse for the last decade or so.
Linux is POS toy os practically no one wants.
Frank
TJ
> TJ wrote:
>> "Mike Easter"
>>> TJ wrote:
>>
>>>> "Mike Easter"
>>>
>>>>> Oh lookee. A crossposting googlegrouper troll instigating.
>>>>
>>>> Who's spittle I would have never seen had you not reposted at least
>>>> part of it.
>>>
>>> Errm. I cited two words for 'context'
>>
>> Which is precisely why I said "part" of it. I kinda figured there
>> was more, but had no way of knowing since I can't see 'original'
>> groper-posts any longer unless somebody comes along (that would be
>> you) and quotes and attributes them for whatever reason.
>
> But Gordon posted 9 lines of it in news:fe8t7v$lgi$1...@news.mixmin.net
> or
> http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursupport.helpdesk/msg/86f012ae13e5f
> 4e6 or http://snipr.com/1rusq
>
> ... so you (or your newsserver) must've filtered his post somehow, if
> you had never seen those parts of it he cited.
If 'Gordon' POSTED from Google, I NEVER saw it. Simple as that,
<snip>>
> So my attribution didn't cite
> the GG mid in the attribution, so you saw my message with the 2 word
> cite. I get it.
Yes. Apparently you do. Now. :-)
PS? I know I've posted this before, and It's probably on the Shark's
website ,,, but the three lines below entered into the X-news score file is
all ya need to make the google-gropers disappear;
[.]
Score: -9999
Message-ID: googlegroups.com
Poof! Gone.
Roy Schestowitz
> <snip garbage>
Another impotent Gary Stewart (flatfish) nym.
*plonk*
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Reversi for Linux/Win32: http://othellomaster.com
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
Roy Schestowitz
____/ Gary Stewart on Saturday 06 October 2007 21:58 : \____
> <snip garbage>
Another impotent Gary Stewart (flatfish) nym.
plonk
--
~~ Best of wishes
.oʍʇ sɐ buıɥʇ ɥɔns ou s,ǝɹǝɥʇ 'ɹǝpuǝq 'ʎɹɹoʍ ʇ,uop :ʎɹɟ
.oʍʇ ɐ ʍɐs ı ʇɥbnoɥʇ ı puɐ ...ǝɹǝɥʍʎɹǝʌǝ soɹǝz puɐ sǝuo .ɯɐǝɹp 1nɟʍɐ uɐ
ʇɐɥʍ 'ɥɥɥɐ :ɹǝpuǝq
dragunovguy
Will Autodesk Architecture and Revit Architecture work on Linux or
Ubuntu? Those are the two programs I make my living with and Autodesk
does not support Linux.
Do any of the popular FPS games like Ghost Recon, Halo, Splinter Cell,
or any of the top flight simulator games work on Linux or Ubuntu? When
I am not working those are the programs I like to play with.
I am asking because I genuinely want to know why I should ever
consider Linux. Most of the software offerings for Linux are pretty
lame. I know because I have friends that run Linux/Ubuntu and while
there are people trying to develop CAD programs and games that run on
a Linux box, none of those that I have seen would do me any good.
Quite honestly, I have a Vista Business running on a high end IBM
Intellistation that I can run the 2008 versions of the Autodesk
products I mentioned and they run very well. I cannot play any of my
favorite FPS or flight simulators on it, but I still have a dual Xeon,
4GB RAM machine running Win XP Pro that works great for those.
Should I switch to Linux just to get back at Microsoft and Gates? I
guess if you can be productive with Linux and get to use the programs
you want to with it maybe it is worth it. I cannot afford to because
my support from Autodesk and my reseller would be gone if I run those
products on Linux. I also do IT work for an architectural firm. They
keep saying they want to try a new MAC. That will be fine if they buy
one that is running Intel processors and Windows, because they use
Autodesk Architecture and Revit also. Those products do not run on a
Mac. Lots of people rag on Autodesk the same way a lot of the people
in this group rag on Microsoft. But when your living depends on
software you will run the OS and the software that makes you money.
I don't like the security problems with Windows and quite a few of the
other issues, but until the MAC/Linux/Ubuntu developers come up
software I can use I won't be switching.
Daryl
(In my lifetime)
four motorcycles, two race cars, one airplane
High Plains Thumper
Except that his "experience" is obvious that he has never really
tried Ubuntu nor any of the available applications. Cross
posting, comment spamming troll is back:
Message-ID: <1191704300....@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.89.101.4
http://www.projecthoneypot.org/i_0aeed376c44f48c5588fb4b1b020f886
[quote]
IP Address Inspector
216.89.101.4
The Project Honey Pot system has detected behavior from the IP
address consistent with that of a comment spammer. Below we've
reported some other data associated with this IP. This
interrelated data helps map spammers' networks and aids in law
enforcement efforts. If you know something about this IP, please
leave a comment.
Geographic Location [Canada] Canada (Toronto, Ontario)
Spider First Seen approximately 1 week ago
Spider Last Seen within 1 week
Spider Sightings 180 visit(s)
First Post On approximately 1 week ago
Last Post On within 1 week
Form Posts 137 web post submission(s) sent from this IP
[/quote]
ray
caver1
I agree. My son depends on Autodesk.
Autodesk is worse than MS when it wants money.
But that is not Linux's fault that they won't port to Linux.
They could port to Linux and still charge.
caver1
Blinky the Shark
Nope. His MID header wouldn't include anybody else's information,
only information about that post. (That's why it's called the
Message-ID header, and filtering on a MID is not filtering on the
body, where attributions would be.)
> XNews set to filter on the "reference header". Nor am I sure
> it's even possible. But I'll bet the Shark would know. :-)
He would. :)
Filtering on References is very much possible and frequently done,
by users of decent news clients, including Xnews. It's used for
filtering a thread or subthread. While I don't recommend this, an
example would be filtering on key string google in References,
which would kill anything in a [sub]thread that is beneath a
Groper's post[s].
--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project moved to this site August 28th:
http://improve-usenet.org
bob
Do you live under a bridge?
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
There have always been options and the sorry excuse "predatory
marketing" has been overused to explain what it can't because it is
false.
"the consumer had NO CHOICE"
And perhaps it is this FALSE belief that has contributed to the
stagnant growth of Linux.
A few years ago Dell offered Linux but it quietly faded away
presumably because of little or no interest.
There have always been choices and probably always will be.
Instead of making excuses and bashing Microsoft, Linux would be better
served by the users promoting their benefits instead of the
competitions liabilities.
When the competitions liabilities are the focus it seems clear that
there is little if no benefit of the other.
Politics is one of the few areas where bashing the competition is
rampant.
Otherwise most advertising is focused on the positives of the product.
Of course politicians in general are well loved because of their
bashing!
--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org
"Gordon" <gbpl...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:fe8ujp$md7$1...@news.mixmin.net...
bob
When you post in such a way that you look like a total jackass, why
would you expect anyone to waste their time trying to educate you?
Rick
> If it works so great, why are so few people using it?
Why are you that stupid.. or dishonest?
--
Rick
Rick
> Notice the 'bury the head in the sand, it can't be true' reaction of the
> Linux zealots.
> As for Vista, it sucked.
> Didn't support my hardware and ran like shit.
>
> As for Linux, Ubuntu, it ran worse than shit. Vista stinks but Linux is
> free and stinks even worse.
>
> How the hell can you nuts justify something that is free yet virtually
> nobody is using it?
> It's like VD.
> It's free, many people get it, few pay for it, most wish they never got
> it.
> That's Linux.
You really do need to go take troll lessons.
--
Rick
*alan*
"Rick" wrote
[..]
> "You really do need to go take troll lessons." (in one post)
(and in another) > "Why are you that stupid.. or dishonest?"
You seem to specialize in pre high school one line put-downs.
But, do you actually have any cogent arguments FOR Linux?
Just wondering . . .
Rick
> "Rick" wrote
> [..]
>
>> "You really do need to go take troll lessons." (in one post)
> (and in another) > "Why are you that stupid.. or dishonest?"
>
> You seem to specialize in pre high school one line put-downs.
... the above jerk deserves them...
> But, do
> you actually have any cogent arguments FOR Linux? Just wondering . . .
It is Open Source...
It is Free, and in many instances free.
It is not tied to one vendor, such as Apple or Microsoft.
I use WP, SS, DB... browse the web, edit graphics, audio, video (well,
simple editing), convert those media formats between many formats, send
email, run web, email and ftp servers, IRC, IM, syc my Palm TX, edit web
pages ...
... I easily have multiple desktops so I can group projects ... and Linux
based distros have been my main desktop OSes for about 10 years..
... good enough?
--
Rick
High Plains Thumper
> "Gordon" wrote...
>
>> Because, up until a year or so ago, due to Microsoft's
>> predatory marketing practices, the consumer had NO CHOICE -
>> they were unable to buy a machine from any of the large
>> vendors with Linux pre-installed. And as we all know -
>> people use what they are given.
>
> they choose to purchase.
>
> There have always been options and the sorry excuse "predatory
> marketing" has been overused to explain what it can't because
> it is false.
Predatory marketing has already been substantiated by court
cases, documents available on the Internet.
Reference USDOJ Memorandum Opinion, Page 197:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/Lit11-1.pdf
[quote]
During this litigation, promises have been made on behalf of
Microsoft that the company will change its predatory practices
which have been part of its competitive strategy in order to
comply with the remedial decree. The Court will hold Microsoft’s
directors, particularly those who testified before this Court,
responsible for implementing each provision of this remedial
decree. Let it not be said of Microsoft that “a prince never
lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise,”84 for this Court
will exercise its full panoply of powers to ensure that the
letter and spirit of this remedial decree are carried out.
November 1, 2002
COLLEEN KOLLAR-KOTELLY
United States District Judge
[/quote]
> "the consumer had NO CHOICE" And perhaps it is this FALSE
> belief that has contributed to the stagnant growth of Linux. A
> few years ago Dell offered Linux but it quietly faded away
> presumably because of little or no interest. There have always
> been choices and probably always will be.
Lack of consumer choice is being proliferated by a multitude of
corporate actions by Microsoft:
http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/WINXP_anticompetitive_study.pdf
[quote]
A Resounding, Pro-Consumer Ruling Demands A Strong Remedy
To Prevent Future Harm
In a full bench review, the U.S. Appeals Court for the
District of Columbia Court unanimously affirmed the initial
ruling that Microsoft illegally maintained its monopoly in
operating systems. The Appeals Court upheld all lower court
Findings of Fact that Microsoft’s abuse of monopoly power harms
consumers by increasing costs, restricting choice, impairing
quality and retarding innovation.
In fact, as articulated by the courts, the central issue in
the case and the remedy phase is not whether we have innovation
in the software industry, but whether innovation is driven by a
vigorous competitive process, or managed by a single, dominant
firm that can choose, at any moment and with a vast, ever-
expanding supply of anti-competitive tactics, to protect and
promote its interest at the expense of consumers. The ruling has
been widely applauded by liberal and conservative commentators,
not only because of the importance of the software industry, but
also because of the reaffirmation of the role of antitrust in the
new economy.
The New Challenge: “Windows XP/.NET”
These findings are especially critical because Microsoft is
in the process of rolling out the most aggressive bundle of
products in its history – an operating system (Windows XP) with a
host of embedded applications (browser, messenger, media player)
that is intertwined with a wide array of Internet services
(Hailstorm and the .NET initiative). The bundle covers all of the
functionalities that are converging on the Internet including:
• Communications: E-Mail (Hotmail), Messaging (Microsoft
Messenger)
• Commerce: Identity Verification (Passport—names and
addresses), Utilities (e.g. Calendars, Contact Lists),
Transactions (e.g. documents, payment records)
• Multimedia Applications: Music and Video (Media Player
8), Digital Photography (My Pictures)
• Internet Services: MSN
Today these Internet activities are vigorously competitive,
just as the browser was before Microsoft launched its
monopolistic assault, but Microsoft requires computer
manufacturers to buy all of “Windows XP/.NET”, and laces the
bundle with technological and business practices that have
already been ruled illegal by the courts, such as the following:
• commingled code,
• proprietary languages,
• exclusive functionalities promoted by restrictive licenses,
• refusal to support competing applications,
• embedded links, and
• deceptive messages.
With the launch of “Windows XP/.NET” Microsoft is adding new
tactics to its anticompetitive campaign. For the first time,
Microsoft is requiring software developers to “pre-certify” their
software with Microsoft. It is also requiring that consumers
activate their operating system, and provide extensive
information to Microsoft. The operating system monitors the
computer on which it is installed—too many changes to the
computer configuration will make the software think it is being
used on a second PC. It will lock up and consumers will have to
contact Microsoft to reactivate it.
Microsoft’s anti-competitive leveraging also gets personal,
through an identity authentication service called Passport.
Microsoft has declared that “all Windows users will get a
Passport.” This identity authentication service will build a
massive proprietary database of personal information and
transactional details, by leveraging its illegally preserved
monopolies in operating systems, the browser, and office
applications.
[/quote]
> Instead of making excuses and bashing Microsoft, Linux would
> be better served by the users promoting their benefits instead
> of the competitions liabilities. When the competitions
> liabilities are the focus it seems clear that there is little
> if no benefit of the other.
>
> Politics is one of the few areas where bashing the competition
> is rampant. Otherwise most advertising is focused on the
> positives of the product. Of course politicians in general are
> well loved because of their bashing!
Fair and open competition in the market place will be best
encouraged at the government level, as demonstrated by this most
recent action by the European Union:
http://www.siia.net/press/releases/govt_09_17_2007.pdf
[quote]
Statement of the Software & Information Industry Association
(SIIA) On Today's Judgement by the European Court of First Instance
/Washington, DC (Septement 17, 2007)/ - Following today's
judgment by the Court of First Instance (CFI) in Luxembourg,
confirming in large part the conclusions of the European
Commission in March 2004 that Microsoft violated competition
laws, Ken Wasch, President of the Software and Information
Industry Association (SIIA), issued the following statement:
"Today's judgment by the European appeals court is a victory for
innovators and consumers everywhere. With this action, the only
option left for Microsoft is to immediately cooperate and fulfill
the requirements of the March 2004 Decision."
More than three years ago, the Commission found through an open
and transparent process that Microsoft had abused its dominant
position. Almost three years ago, the European Court of First
Instance rejected Microsoft's request to have the Decision
suspended pending resolution of its appeal.
"After one of the most thorough investigations in the history of
competition law, spanning over 7 years, the Commission has taken
a steady and decisive course. We applaud the leadership and
persistence of the European Commission, Commissioner Kroes,
former Commissioner Monti and their officials," Wasch continued.
[/quote]
This regarded opening the CFS/SMB network protocols that
Microsoft has made increasingly difficult for competitors to
utilize, which Microsoft failed to appropriately document. It
also regards the unbundling of Windows Media Player. Next, IMHO
will be the complete unbundling of Windows Operating systems with
hardware vendors.
--
HPT
elaich
news:Roidnak6AruUkZXa...@comcast.com:
> There's no need to filter crossposting GGer's with Xnews. You just
> write the score-file as it pertains to the message ID, make it 'global'
> and you never see a post from a google-groper ever again.
I just have "Kill articles crossposted to more then (1) group" in setup.
--
A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
llan...@yahoo.com
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
> "people use what they are given."
> Yes, but they also use what they choose to purchase.
>
> There have always been options and the sorry excuse "predatory
> marketing" has been overused to explain what it can't because it is
> false.
>
> "the consumer had NO CHOICE"
> And perhaps it is this FALSE belief that has contributed to the
> stagnant growth of Linux.
Well I think people just don't know what Linux is. They stay on the
safe path. Change is difficult.
However Linux is generally free so I assume the Computer companies
think that they will miss
out on some profits. I mean I assume they do make money off Windows as
the default OS
on their computers they sell.
Tattoo Vampire
> You seem to specialize in pre high school one line put-downs.
> But, do you actually have any cogent arguments FOR Linux?
> Just wondering . . .
*alan*
Get fucked, you worthless scumbag.
Stephan Rose
Then...don't switch? It's that easy. You really think I personally care
what operating system you use? I honestly could not care less.
Couple of suggestions for you though:
First, learn to use paragraphs. It makes what you write much more
coherent and a lot easier to read.
Secondly, use the software and OS that meets your needs. Easy isn't it?
Charlie Tame
Actually this may be a sign of things to come...
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=869&num=1
Stephan Rose
Now *THAT* is just too cool. =)
HEMI-Powered
> After a not so great experience 'upgrading' to Vista, I
> decided to give Linux Ubuntu a chance.
> I had read all kinds of great, positive information about this
> version of Linux so I was looking forward to a change of pace.
> Seeing as I have never used Linux before, Ubuntu seemed to get
> the most hits on Google so I went for it.
>
> All I can say is thank God I didn't pay anything for this
> piece of crap.
> Really makes me wonder why Linux is free. I suppose that's the
> only way they can unload it on unsuspecting people like me.
> Holy shit!
> Virtually nothing works.
I've been quietly watching the Linux debate for years. My nephew
and PC builder really likes it but he views it as a hobby and
will sit up all night doing a full system rebuild. From time-to-
time, he tries to interest me in leaving the Dark Side and
joining the Force. So, I ask him the same question: is Linux
REALLY ready for prime time on the desktop? What I mean is, will
ALL my software run, my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie again.
After lobbying me about open source, he eventually says,
sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many HW driver
issues, some things can only be done command line, GUI still
quirky, etc." I don't know what version he's using now, at one
time it was Red Hat.
I am going to just continue to do what doctors call "watchful
waiting" when they detect a condition that may be a problem but
not right this minute - in reverse. What I mean is, I read
threads like this one to see the varying views of people other
than my Linux "bigot" nephew, in using any version of Linux, how
they handle tech support, updates, and things like you discuss
below.
> I can't play my mp3 files.
> My porn doesn't play.
> My prionter does not print.
> My wireless network keeps dropping the connection.
> My 8 button mouse is now a 2 buton mouse.
> My widescreen LCD display is now displaying a frequency error
> box in the middle of the desktop.
> My ATI TV card won't work.
> I select help in various progams and I am met by a dialog box
> saying "Help has Not been Written Yet, if I would like to
> Contribute please contact etc"
>
> So now I have to write my own programs?
>
> I could go on but why bother?
>
> Anyone who wonders why Linux is stillborn should give Ubuntu a
> try and find out for themselves.
> Linux sucks.
--
HP, aka Jerry
Alfred
wrote:
Commodore 64 for the 21 century?
It's probably the way things will go especially with ever larger
memory modules becoming available. Definitely for mobile computers.
HEMI-Powered
> Notice the 'bury the head in the sand, it can't be true'
> reaction of the Linux zealots.
> As for Vista, it sucked.
> Didn't support my hardware and ran like shit.
>
> As for Linux, Ubuntu, it ran worse than shit.
> Vista stinks but Linux is free and stinks even worse.
>
> How the hell can you nuts justify something that is free yet
> virtually nobody is using it?
> It's like VD.
> It's free, many people get it, few pay for it, most wish they
> never got it.
> That's Linux.
>
don't know the numbers, but I think that overall Linux "market
share" is rising, probably fueled by PC OEMs offering it as an
alternative to Windows or in a 2nd boot partition as an option. I
might agree to accusing users who think Linux is fine are
zealots, but I think that is way too strong, and may be viewed as
an insult plus it most certainly will cause you to lose
credibility here. That is partially why I put quotes around
"bigot" in describing my nephew. When discussion the many things
that do not work for you and people that have the same version
that you do, or some other, claim they DO work, I believe it. I
do NOT dis-believe you, I'm just saying that it may be pointless
to argue with someone where you say "X doesn't" work and the
other person says that it does. It is entirely possible in
today's quirky PC environment with complex mixes of mobo, video,
HD, specific apps and utilities, HW, and all that stuff running
from current version to old, so-called legacy apps.
Back to my nephew for a minute. I don't think he is suffering ANY
for-real failures, and he has a LOT of stuff on his PC, so he
might be on the "zealot" end of the scale. His observation was,
though, that, yes, you do need to do some of your own software.
Now, the "zealots" and "bigots" will come after me, but for all
the good people reading my comments, please understand that I am
insulting no one nor refuting their testimony. It also explains
why /I/ and still way to confused to jump ship on XP.
Now, Vista is another story. I would not even consider going to
Vista until at least SP1, perhaps SP2. I prefer to let the early
adopters beta test with their Visa cards, I won't. Call me a
"head in the sand " Luddite if you like, but I want to do the
same watchful waiting on Vista. In my personal case, I will
likely NOT do an upgrade on current PC. I would most likely dump
my wife's older, slower machine (yes, I love her, she just
doesn't do anything that needs a fast machine so she a happy
camper), give her my XP Pro SP2 box, and get a new PC built with
native Vista on it, preferably as a retail version, not OEM. I'm
not big on upgrading an existing machine because any excess
baggage in the Registry, drivers, etc. will be partially
compromized, and perhaps corrupted to the point they no longer
work.
Which brings me to your complaints. Did you buy you PC with Vista
on it, then install Linux, or did you upgrade from XP to Linux? I
have found since Win 95 that it is MUCH better to do a clean
install than an upgrade.
Opinions on my slant to this would be appreciated.
--
HP, aka Jerry
DanS
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
> Well I think people just don't know what Linux is. They stay on the
> safe path. Change is difficult.
> However Linux is generally free so I assume the Computer companies
> think that they will miss
> out on some profits. I mean I assume they do make money off Windows as
> the default OS
> on their computers they sell.
How can the be missing out on profits....take Dell for example.....
Yes, you can get Ubuntu pre-installed, but the system actually cost like
$20 or $30 more than if it had Vista.
AND, Dell, while they will sell you the pre-installed Unubtu system, they
say outright they offer no support for it.
Sounds like a great deal for Dell if you ask me.....they don't pay for an
OEM version of Windows (save $$), will not provide support (save more
$$), and then charge more for the system (make more $$).
dennis@home
"Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message
news:kNydnRCU0N45MJXa...@giganews.com...
Its not new stuff though.
Quite a few machines have shipped with embedded software to use features
without starting windows.
They don't appear to be reasons why people buy a machine and I don't expect
many will flock to the ASUS one either.
Its a bit silly really.. its a high performance motherboard that is intended
for games so the buyer is going to want to run windows.. the buyer is more
likely to just use the windows installed.
Tattoo Vampire
> I don't know what version he's using now, at one
> time it was Red Hat.
And how many versions ago was that?
Bob Downonit
> After a not so great experience 'upgrading' to Vista, I decided to
> give Linux Ubuntu a chance.
> I had read all kinds of great, positive information about this version
> of Linux so I was looking forward to a change of pace.
> Seeing as I have never used Linux before, Ubuntu seemed to get the
> most hits on Google so I went for it.
>
> All I can say is thank God I didn't pay anything for this piece of
> crap.
> Really makes me wonder why Linux is free. I suppose that's the only
> way they can unload it on unsuspecting people like me.
> Holy shit!
> Virtually nothing works.
> I can't play my mp3 files.
> My porn doesn't play.
> My prionter does not print.
> My wireless network keeps dropping the connection.
> My 8 button mouse is now a 2 buton mouse.
> My widescreen LCD display is now displaying a frequency error box in
> the middle of the desktop.
> My ATI TV card won't work.
> I select help in various progams and I am met by a dialog box saying
> "Help has Not been Written Yet, if I would like to Contribute please
> contact etc"
>
> So now I have to write my own programs?
>
> I could go on but why bother?
>
> Anyone who wonders why Linux is stillborn should give Ubuntu a try and
> find out for themselves.
> Linux sucks.
What a tool!
Stephan Rose
You just don't get it and probably never will, right?
Of course nobody is going to use this as their operating system so your
entire point you were trying to make just went down the drain.
The point of this whole thing is that this is possible to do with Linux
whereas it'd be impossible to do with something like Vista. When it comes
to embedded products, Windows just falls flat on it's face.
dennis@home
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:30:42 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>
>> "Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message
>> news:kNydnRCU0N45MJXa...@giganews.com...
>>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:34:55 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
>>
>>>> Actually this may be a sign of things to come...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=869&num=1
>>>
>>> Now *THAT* is just too cool. =)
>>
>> Its not new stuff though.
>> Quite a few machines have shipped with embedded software to use features
>> without starting windows.
>> They don't appear to be reasons why people buy a machine and I don't
>> expect many will flock to the ASUS one either.
>>
>> Its a bit silly really.. its a high performance motherboard that is
>> intended for games so the buyer is going to want to run windows.. the
>> buyer is more likely to just use the windows installed.
>
> You just don't get it and probably never will, right?
You, as usual get the wrong end of the stick.
> Of course nobody is going to use this as their operating system so your
> entire point you were trying to make just went down the drain.
>
> The point of this whole thing is that this is possible to do with Linux
> whereas it'd be impossible to do with something like Vista. When it comes
> to embedded products, Windows just falls flat on it's face.
Who said it didn't fall flat on its face?
There are a few embedded windows products about BTW so it is not impossible.
What falls flat on its face is the idea of putting a mini preboot OS in a
PC.
Its been done before and it didn't work, I see no reason for this to change
ATM.
Now if they put a similar bit of software in a really cheap small MB and got
someone to manufacture a suitable matching touch screen things might be
different.
dennis@home
"sittingduck" <sitti...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in message
news:Xns99C26294FCB36du...@invalid.quakefour.net...
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
>
>> Instead of making excuses and bashing Microsoft, Linux would be better
>> served by the users promoting their benefits instead of the
>> competitions liabilities.
>> When the competitions liabilities are the focus it seems clear that
>> there is little if no benefit of the other.
>>
>> Politics is one of the few areas where bashing the competition is
>> rampant.
>
That's different.
People join a religion because it makes them superior to everyone that isn't
a member.
Oh.. maybe you are right.
Adam Albright
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>"Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message
>> You just don't get it and probably never will, right?
>
>You, as usual get the wrong end of the stick.
Your problem is you have a stick up your ass or is that your own head?
dennis@home
"Adam Albright" <A...@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:ut4ig3l06i8oevnso...@4ax.com...
You will always do the wrong thing and look stupid so learn to live with it.
You may as well forget about giving out your advice too as everyone thinks
you are crazy and ignores you except for the odd moment they are bored and
want to play.
chrisv
> All I can say is
*plonk*
chrisv
>> If it works so great, why are so few people using it?
>
> Why are you that stupid.. or dishonest?
Gosh, you don't suppose it's a troll who has repeated the same idiocy
countless times, and had it explained to him countless times?
Stephan Rose
> "Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message
> news:eKydnfJOxos...@giganews.com...
>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:30:42 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>> "Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kNydnRCU0N45MJXa...@giganews.com...
>>>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:34:55 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Actually this may be a sign of things to come...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=869&num=1
>>>>
>>>> Now *THAT* is just too cool. =)
>>>
>>> Its not new stuff though.
>>> Quite a few machines have shipped with embedded software to use
>>> features without starting windows.
>>> They don't appear to be reasons why people buy a machine and I don't
>>> expect many will flock to the ASUS one either.
>>>
>>> Its a bit silly really.. its a high performance motherboard that is
>>> intended for games so the buyer is going to want to run windows.. the
>>> buyer is more likely to just use the windows installed.
>>
>> You just don't get it and probably never will, right?
>
> You, as usual get the wrong end of the stick.
Seeing how my end of the stick doesn't have much of windows on it, I like
it very much.
>
>> Of course nobody is going to use this as their operating system so your
>> entire point you were trying to make just went down the drain.
>>
>> The point of this whole thing is that this is possible to do with Linux
>> whereas it'd be impossible to do with something like Vista. When it
>> comes to embedded products, Windows just falls flat on it's face.
>
> Who said it didn't fall flat on its face? There are a few embedded
> windows products about BTW so it is not impossible. What falls flat on
> its face is the idea of putting a mini preboot OS in a PC.
Yea I know about WinCE. It's about the last environment I'd want to use
for any embedded product. Oh and, embedded software is among the software
I write for a living. Microsoft's embedded compiler is beyond outdated
dating back to Visual Studio 6 days. MS' newer environments are only able
to use the .Net Compact Framework for CE Development which is about as
inappropriate for embedded development as it can only get.
When I write embedded software I want and need low level access to my
hardware and every bit of speed I can find. Not a high-level abstracted
object oriented language with a garbage collector and runtime checking
and no direct hardware access that MS wants me to use.
Dunno what went over Microsoft's head there....
> Its been done before and it didn't work, I see no reason for this to
> change ATM.
Well it obviously isn't intended to be actually used as a daily use OS
for the computer. But I can quite well see the uses for diagnostics,
trouble shooting, or plain simple testing when I go to build a new
system. It also would make a far more excellent environment to do things
like reflash the bios from.
> Now if they put a similar bit of software in a really cheap small MB and
> got someone to manufacture a suitable matching touch screen things might
> be different.
Check out Ubuntu Mobile. It is intended for precisely *that* using Intel
hardware and just blows Windows CE out of the water.
Rick
mmmmm... could be ...
--
Rick
dennis@home
I used to do that before I did bigger and, maybe, better things.
I have written in ASM86, PLM86, C, java amongst others.
I quite liked RMX86 as a kernel myself.. did some X25 firmware in that.
> Microsoft's embedded compiler is beyond outdated
> dating back to Visual Studio 6 days. MS' newer environments are only able
> to use the .Net Compact Framework for CE Development which is about as
> inappropriate for embedded development as it can only get.
>
> When I write embedded software I want and need low level access to my
> hardware and every bit of speed I can find.
When you work on realtime control systems like telephone exchanges you have
different requirements to windows and Linux.
Linux sure doesn't give realtime responses in the varieties most people talk
about here so just because someone calls it linux doesn't mean it is linux.
> Not a high-level abstracted
> object oriented language with a garbage collector and runtime checking
> and no direct hardware access that MS wants me to use.
Write a driver then.. that's what I did when I needed real-time response in
Unix.
Its not a problem if you need to do it.
>
> Dunno what went over Microsoft's head there....
>
>> Its been done before and it didn't work, I see no reason for this to
>> change ATM.
>
> Well it obviously isn't intended to be actually used as a daily use OS
> for the computer. But I can quite well see the uses for diagnostics,
> trouble shooting, or plain simple testing when I go to build a new
> system. It also would make a far more excellent environment to do things
> like reflash the bios from.
It might be a bit risky if its in the same rom as the bios.
>> Now if they put a similar bit of software in a really cheap small MB and
>> got someone to manufacture a suitable matching touch screen things might
>> be different.
>
> Check out Ubuntu Mobile. It is intended for precisely *that* using Intel
> hardware and just blows Windows CE out of the water.
No need really, its fairly easy to write a run to completion real time
scheduler.
Adam Albright
Play with this:
http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/bush-finger.jpg
While I never would try to speak for others, I think the sentiment
Bush is conveying in the above image is typical of what most think of
blowhards like you.
dennis@home
"Adam Albright" <A...@ABC.net> wrote in message
How come everything you say could be about you.. no probably is about you?
Do you have some sort of mental problem that requires you to keep saying
things that are true of you but that you need to attach to others? Maybe to
convince yourself that you are normal?
I bet you could tell us the name if you read your notes again.
Rich
> Because, up until a year or so ago, due to Microsoft's predatory marketing
> practices, the consumer had NO CHOICE - they were unable to buy a machine
> from any of the large vendors with Linux pre-installed. And as we all
> know - people use what they are given.
The Market isn't political.
If people wanted Linux they'd be offered it in a heartbeat.
It is not offered because there is NO INTEREST.
Dell is trying again. It will end like the last time.
Someone muttering at a Monday morning sales meeting, "what the hell did we
do that for" ?
and ... look!
there is that 'we ALL KNOW' phrase again. heh
Funny how that always pops up in the place of proofs.
I use what I choose.
Catchy isn't it?
... and one more thing, about those predatory posting practices?
Rich
Juarez
Unlike Vista, Linux requires you to engage your brain. All of your above
issues on Ubuntu are fixable. If you can't take the initiative to learn
how to fix the issues then Linux is not for you.
Gordon
news:u$rEXqRCI...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>> Because, up until a year or so ago, due to Microsoft's predatory
>> marketing
>> practices, the consumer had NO CHOICE - they were unable to buy a machine
>> from any of the large vendors with Linux pre-installed. And as we all
>> know - people use what they are given.
>
> The Market isn't political.
>
> If people wanted Linux they'd be offered it in a heartbeat.
>
Market "political"? What sort of a STUPID statement is that?
A Market is FINANCIAL you dumbass, and MS has been proven to have put
financial pressure in the past on OEMs to NOT offer any other OS except
Windows (up until a couple of years go). Unfortunately they have been doing
that for so many years without any sort of check on them, that yes, most of
the world equates computers with windows.
People don't ask for Linux BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.......and
they've never been TOLD about it....even now, if you go into somewhere like
PC world and ask for a machine with Linux installed, most of the "salesmen"
will just go "eh"?
Desk Rabbit
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:07:35 -0700, bones4jones wrote:
>
>> Vista stinks but Linux is free and stinks even worse.
>
Crayons I guess
chrisv
>I've been quietly watching the Linux debate for years. My nephew
>and PC builder really likes it but he views it as a hobby and
>will sit up all night doing a full system rebuild. From time-to-
>time, he tries to interest me in leaving the Dark Side and
>joining the Force. So, I ask him the same question: is Linux
>REALLY ready for prime time on the desktop? What I mean is, will
>ALL my software run,
You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do you
think that's reasonable?
>my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
>at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie again.
>After lobbying me about open source, he eventually says,
>sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many HW driver
>issues, some things can only be done command line, GUI still
>quirky, etc."
Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality, none of
those things are real and significant issues.
>I don't know what version he's using now, at one
>time it was Red Hat.
>
>I am going to just continue to do what doctors call "watchful
>waiting"
You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch without
learning some new ways of doing things.
chrisv
>Unlike Vista, Linux requires you to engage your brain. All of your above
>issues on Ubuntu are fixable.
Do you mean the list of lies, copied almost verbatim from a previous
troll, are fixable? Or do you mean being a bald-faced liar is a
fixable mental condition?
caver1
He probably complains about how bad the roads are then complains when
they fix them.
caver1
HEMI-Powered
...
>>I've been quietly watching the Linux debate for years. My
>>nephew and PC builder really likes it but he views it as a
>>hobby and will sit up all night doing a full system rebuild.
>>From time-to- time, he tries to interest me in leaving the
>>Dark Side and joining the Force. So, I ask him the same
>>question: is Linux REALLY ready for prime time on the desktop?
>>What I mean is, will ALL my software run,
>
> You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do
> you think that's reasonable?
Gee, hadn't really thought about it. Don't know if that is
reasonable or not. Wait! I did think about it! And, I've been
reading about it for years! As best I can tell, the people who
are high advocates of Linux seem to fall into two categories:
1) those who have forsaken ALL Windows apps and ALL Windows
drivers and ALL Windows utilities and ALL Windows anything, used
the equivalent Open Source stuff (which I do not at all
understand), and they believe that Linux works just fine.
2) those who want for good, bad, or indifferent reasons NOT to
have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use the apps,
utilities, and hardware they have when they move from the Dark
Side and join the Force. these people appear to believe that
Linux does not work at all.
Now, I don't know if there are any middle of the road positions
between those 2 extremes, but I am not about to try - YET. When -
IF? - Linux CAN run my apps and CAN support my HW, I MAY create a
second boot sector and give it a whirl.
Honestly, Chris, the main reason I say very little when Linux
comes up in a number of NGs I visit is precisely because I cannot
detect a clear consensus on its usability. As best I can
analogize, it is like watching the Democrats and Republicans
argue. It is often impossible to even tell they're talking about
the same thing, but it is crystal clear that they BOTH cannot be
right.
So, back to your query? No, again, I do not know what is or what
is not "reasonable". I don't even have a good definition of
"reasonable" in this context. The jury is still out on Vista, but
then, it is a rather new product and there's bound to be some
bumps and grinds for the early adopters. But, in looking in on
thee Vista NGs, it appears to be at least a feasible O/S, abeit
not one I want to try. Next, I can look in on the XP NGs, where
people talk about a very mature product and there are STILL bumps
and grinds. That causes me heartburn trying to rationalize all of
this. To wit:
1) Win XP doesn't always work for all of the people all of the
time. Is it reasonable to expect that it should? Don't know
2) Win Vista appears to work for a majority of users with more
problems than XP but at least people can work, but it does have
serious issues. Since it doesn't work for all the people all of
the time, is it reasonable to expect that it should. Don't know
3) Linux appears to work well or even very well for some
percentage of users, work mediocre for some other percentage of
users, and poorly/not at all for a 3rd percentage. I don't know
what the percentages are, they change from day to day. Since
Linux does not work all the time for all the people, is it
reasonable that it should, which was your question to me? Don't
know that either!
I'm not pulling your chain, Chris, I REALLY don't know!
>>my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
>>at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie
>>again. After lobbying me about open source, he eventually
>>says, sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many
>>HW driver issues, some things can only be done command line,
>>GUI still quirky, etc."
>
> Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality,
> none of those things are real and significant issues.
Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that. I know the capabilities of
my nephew across old DOS, new DOS, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win
2000, Win XP, and just starting to look at Vista. He has a fair
but not complete knowledge of generic Unix. He APPEARS to be a
rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have more
than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does wrt
Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
slender data, I'm not sure it is wise to make a statement like
"...is without a clue". Perhaps you can see that your comment is
insulting to me, as it suggests that I also do not have a clue,
else I'd not be defending my nephew that you've already
condemned.
>>I am going to just continue to do what doctors call "watchful
>>waiting"
>
> You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch
> without learning some new ways of doing things.
>
I already said I am not trying to pull your chain. I will simply
repeat my philosophy and mantra: a PC is to me nothing more than
an incredibly powerful adding machine with a slick looking
interface. If you boil it down, all a PC can really do is crunch
ones and zeros (yes, yes, yes, I know about 32 and 64-bit words,
HW floating point, and the like). Yet, my PC is now, and has been
for years in older versions, an incredibly productive tool to me
at home for my hobbies and for some 20 years at work until I
retired about 6 years ago.
Let me finish my "rant" with this analogy: while I am certainly
open to trying new things, e.g., a completely different category
of vehicle than I have ever driven before, I do have the somewhat
old-fashioned and romantic idea that it will have at least 4
wheels, brakes, an engine and transmission, a steering wheel, and
it will more or less get me from one place to another. That has
been true since PRIOR to the Model T to today's wonders of
technocracy. That is definitely NOT true of a gut-wrenching
change from one philosophy of O/S to another.
So, if it is OK with you, I'd like to do two things right now:
stop annoying others in this NG by arguing about things I know
nothing about,i.e., Linux, and keep on a waitin' until /I/ think
that it can be at least as productive for me as XP.
Thank you for your views and observations and have a great week!
--
HP, aka Jerry
dennis@home
"HEMI-Powered" <no...@none.en> wrote in message
news:Xns99C3E8AF3E0...@140.99.99.130...
>> You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do
>> you think that's reasonable?
>
> Gee, hadn't really thought about it. Don't know if that is
> reasonable or not. Wait! I did think about it! And, I've been
> reading about it for years! As best I can tell, the people who
> are high advocates of Linux seem to fall into two categories:
>
> 1) those who have forsaken ALL Windows apps and ALL Windows
> drivers and ALL Windows utilities and ALL Windows anything, used
> the equivalent Open Source stuff (which I do not at all
> understand), and they believe that Linux works just fine.
>
> 2) those who want for good, bad, or indifferent reasons NOT to
> have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use the apps,
> utilities, and hardware they have when they move from the Dark
> Side and join the Force. these people appear to believe that
> Linux does not work at all.
There is the third kind that use open source applications on windows (and
why not, they work fine).
I have yet to find a useful open source application that doesn't run on
windows but YMMV.
Linux is a *tiny* part of open source but some of them shout a lot
(and usually aren't talking about Linux anyway).
chrisv
>chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour
>>
>> You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do
>> you think that's reasonable?
>
>(big snip)
>
>I'm not pulling your chain, Chris, I REALLY don't know!
Well, it's not reasonable. Some people are going to have some apps
which they like and that only run under Windows. OTOH, many people
will be satisfied with the Linux equivalent "main" applications, and
don't have any "oddball" Windows apps that they cannot live without.
May this involve some compromise? Sure. But there's the upside of
low/free cost, and improved security.
>>>my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
>>>at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie
>>>again. After lobbying me about open source, he eventually
>>>says, sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many
>>>HW driver issues, some things can only be done command line,
>>>GUI still quirky, etc."
>>
>> Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality,
>> none of those things are real and significant issues.
>
>He APPEARS to be a
>rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have more
>than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does wrt
>Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
>judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
>slender data,
Well, maybe you mis-quoted him, but the above quotations are highly
flawed.
Most people will not encounter "HW driver issues" if they select their
HW with Linux support in mind. And no, for most people, that's not a
big "drawback" - it's not like Linux-friendly hardware is hard to find
or extra expensive.
The fact the "some" things can only be done via command line" should
not bother anyone, either. Very few things, IF any, on a new
installation, MAY require typing on a command line. See that big
thing in front of y our monitot? It's called a keyboard. It's there
for a reason. It won't bite you.
And "GUI still quirky"? What the hell is that suppose to mean? It's
no more "quirky" than Windows is, often less. Different is not the
same as worse.
>> You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch
>> without learning some new ways of doing things.
>
>(snip car analogy)
>
>That is definitely NOT true of a gut-wrenching
>change from one philosophy of O/S to another.
Linux has essentially the same functionality as Windows, so excuse me
if I say your analogy is false. Learning some new ways of doing
things need not be "gut-wrenching".
>Thank you for your views and observations and have a great week!
Burn yourself a couple live CD's and try them, instead of relying on
your nephew's opinions.
HEMI-Powered
>>> Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In
>>> reality, none of those things are real and significant
>>> issues.
>>
>>He APPEARS to be a
>>rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have
>>more than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does
>>wrt Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
>>judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
>>slender data,
>
> Well, maybe you mis-quoted him, but the above quotations are
> highly flawed.
Chris, I neither want to pick a fight for no good reason with you nor take on and
maybe insult my nephew. Right now, I am in lurk/watchful waiting mode and not
serious enough to bug my nephew.
Again, please try to understand. I am 60, want to do useful work and not play with
an O/S and try to find software that I like that works and also get my older HW to
work. I have health issues that sap my energy and greatly reduce my ability to
withstand frustration, and I have FAR more important things to do right now.
Again, no insult meant to you or anyone on either side of the Linux debate, it
just isn't for me. So, if you're trying to convince me, please understand you're
digging a dry well.
> Most people will not encounter "HW driver issues" if they
> select their HW with Linux support in mind. And no, for most
> people, that's not a big "drawback" - it's not like
> Linux-friendly hardware is hard to find or extra expensive.
>
> The fact the "some" things can only be done via command line"
> should not bother anyone, either. Very few things, IF any, on
> a new installation, MAY require typing on a command line. See
> that big thing in front of y our monitot? It's called a
> keyboard. It's there for a reason. It won't bite you.
>
> And "GUI still quirky"? What the hell is that suppose to
> mean? It's no more "quirky" than Windows is, often less.
> Different is not the same as worse.
I obviously DO do old-fashioned "command line" things in Win XP, but only when I
absolutely must. Again, please try to understand that my keyboard is for typing
letters and for corresponding with people on Usenet, as now. It is NOT for me to
revert to the DOS days. That's the whole idea behind the GUI revolution that
became minimally usable at Win 3.1 and more reasonable with Win 95/98, but really
didn't become stable - for me - until XP. Sorry, but I'm not in the mood for
learning Unix-style command line strings and switches in the best tradition of DOS
4.0.
>
> Linux has essentially the same functionality as Windows, so
> excuse me if I say your analogy is false. Learning some new
> ways of doing things need not be "gut-wrenching".
Chris, I am very happy for you that you are happy with Linux. What got me
embroiled in this "debate" was the OP's subject line - "Linux just sucks" - which
would appear at least for a first glance to indicate that not everyone is anywhere
near as happy as you are. That's Okey, Dokey, as hardly everyone is a happy camper
right now with Vista. Some folks were forced into Vista because they bought a new
PC. Some were duped into upgraded by the MS marketing machine, some are people
that just like to have the latest of anything, and some who did a deep dive,
decided Vista was for them, and made a conscious decision to buy it. In ANY of
those categories, as best I can observe in lurking in the Vista NGs is that there
are plenty of problems. But then, after all these years, there's still problems
with XP.
I'll leave you with this quote: "better the devil you know than the devil you
don't know", meaning, I know, understand, and am pretty satisfied with XP Pro SP2,
and not at all willing to buy a Mac, upgrade or clean install Vista OR even dual-
boot Linux. It just isn't in the cards for me. Again, as I have said a number of
times, I take nothing away from people who like Linux, such as you. Or my nephew,
whether he his elevator goes all the way to the top or not, he likes it.
>>Thank you for your views and observations and have a great
>>week!
>
> Burn yourself a couple live CD's and try them, instead of
> relying on your nephew's opinions.
>
Chris, Chris, Chris, are you like a religious evangelist who goes around Bible in
hand trying to convert pagans to Christianity? Why on God's Green Earth would I
spend ANY time other than typing a few replies to you? I am just NOT going to go
to Linux any time soon, maybe not for years and years, maybe never. Nothing you
say, anybody says including my nephew whether he is sane or not is going to change
my mind right now. XP works. I am satisfied.
Gotta run, the Republican presidential candidates debate is on, far more important
right now than my PC.
--
HP, aka Jerry
chrisv
> It is NOT for me to revert to the DOS days.
Oh, I see. You're just trolling me. Well done. Idiot.
HEMI-Powered
> HEMI-Powered wrote:
>
>> It is NOT for me to revert to the DOS days.
>
> Oh, I see. You're just trolling me. Well done. Idiot.
>
>
I'm trolling no one. YOU are a total mental defective in arguing a
case for a dozen posts that you cannot possibly win. Why don't you
spend your energy on making your shit Linux do what you like and
leave me alone. In short, I am no longer going to reply to your
mind numbing stupid arguments. You can either plonk or ignore me in
future, but I'm outta here.
Now, to any normal people wondering about whether Ubandu or
whatever Linux is or is not a viable alternative to Windows
anything, I will certainly read your rational comments on either
side of the controversy. We only learn by hearing new things; where
I draw the line is when learning turns into some sort of activity
where I might say is over-zealousness.
To everyone else, have a very pleasant week.
--
HP, aka Jerry
Edward W. Thompson
I am a new user of Ubuntu (a Linux distro), that installed faultlessly
and configured itself so I could immediately access my local network,
all very impressive. Now the downside, how do I install my printer?
Installing a printer is far from straight forward, at least for me (HP
2280 Businessjet). It appears you are required to have an advanced
degree in 'geekese' to fathom out the process. I am sure once you
spend the time to become familiar with 'geek speak' it all becomes
easy but for a novice, no way.
There is absolutely no way Linux is going to become 'main stream' when
mundane tasks are so obscure to 'everyday' folk. I will persevere as
I have both the time and interest but those with neither would very
quickly come to the decision 'this is not for me', as you have done..
William Poaster
<snip>
> I am a new user of Ubuntu (a Linux distro), that installed faultlessly
> and configured itself so I could immediately access my local network,
> all very impressive. Now the downside, how do I install my printer?
>
> Installing a printer is far from straight forward, at least for me (HP
> 2280 Businessjet). It appears you are required to have an advanced
> degree in 'geekese' to fathom out the process. I am sure once you
> spend the time to become familiar with 'geek speak' it all becomes
> easy but for a novice, no way.
Bullshit.
KDE Control Centre > Peripherals > Printer > Log in as Administrator > Add
Printer. Search down the list > click on HP > 2280 Businessjet. It installs
HP's "hpijs" driver. Ubuntu also has "HP's Printer Toolbox" which should
already be installed by default: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/hplip
And YES, the printer does work in linux:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-Business_Inkjet_2280
> There is absolutely no way Linux is going to become 'main stream' when
> mundane tasks are so obscure to 'everyday' folk.
Except they *aren't* obscure.
> I will persevere as I have both the time and interest but those with
> neither would very quickly come to the decision 'this is not for me', as
> you have done..
If they're not prepared to do a few simple steps, they should probably stick
with windoze.
--
Operating systems:
FreeBSD 6.2, PC-BSD 1.4, Debian 4.0,
PCLinuxOS 2007, (K)Ubuntu 7.04.
Testing: FreeBSD 7.0, Ubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" beta
HEMI-Powered
discussion du jour ...
>>> Oh, I see. You're just trolling me. Well done. Idiot.
Edward, methinketh the real troll was the person engaging ME in
endless debates. Yours is just another data point in my mental
pros and cons accumulation of data and mental evaluation of the
readiness of Linux to be "ready for prime time on the desktop" -
FOR ME. That phrase means "can I install Linux, get all my new
and old SW and HW to run and be able to work with it with no more
necessity to be a computer science major or technie geek than
does Windows XP." NO O/S and NO app or utility is completely free
of the need to know what one is doing and be at least a little
technically savvy, although the amount of techie knowledge varies
widely.
Forgetting my nephew completely, since even mentioning him
enrages people, just about whenever I read some comments on the
"pro" side of the "is Linux ready?" debate - not the "bigots" or
"zealots" - and I at least begin to debate in my mind if I want
to dig into it further, along comes a comment like yours.
I wish you well in solving whatever problems you're having and
thank you for your perspective on this.
--
HP, aka Jerry
HEMI-Powered
jour ...
> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>
>> There is absolutely no way Linux is going to become 'main
>> stream' when mundane tasks are so obscure to 'everyday' folk.
>> I will persevere as I have both the time and interest but
>> those with neither would very quickly come to the decision
>> 'this is not for me', as you have done..
>
> The main argument the linux zealots like to use is that it's
> safe, and that you can be free from the bloat and crashing of
> windows. The problem is that unless all you do is check email
> and surf the web, linux is going to blow. Severely limited
> software options relative to windows, unfriendly interface,
> drivers that are years behind, and a fairly steep learning
> curve. Anyone with the experience and knowledge to actually
> USE linux, DOES NOT HAVE THE PROBLEMS LINUX ZEALOTS LOVE TO
> HOLD UP AGAINST WINDOWS. Because they will also have the
> ability to CONFIGURE AND SECURE WINDOWS. (It's not that hard)
> Linux kicks ass for servers though. :)
>
Duck, my professional knowledge of information security went out
the window when I retired almost 8 years ago, which is an
eternity when thinking about how much more sophisticated the bad
guys have become in just that time span. But, I think a saying I
learned about way back in 1997 or so still applies: "the only 2
kinds of people that can categorically claim they have never been
compromised are the ignorant or the arrogant."
So, believing that I am neither totally ignorant - everybody is
at least some - and I'm not arrogant, I don't think I can make
myself completely safe without taking such draconian steps that I
basically cannot do anything at all on-line or even allowing my
SW to communicate with their seller, e.g., Windows updates,
without a major PITA. So, my path has been to install a SW
firewall and extended malware protection AND periodically do as
comprehensive malware scans as I know how to do with a reasonable
amount of money and time. Seems to work, but then I will never be
sure.
There IS a political side to the security debate, however. A
whole LOT of people hate MS or Bill Gates or something enough
that they take great delight in intentional fooking with MS by
writing malware that annoys their customers. Yes, Windows is a
security swiss cheese and that allows these people who are just
pissed at the world easy access to a vulnerability. There's a
growing population of Apple Mac users to the point where it
appears they may become a drain on MS's revenues in future but
not nearly as many people hate Steve Jobs as Bill Gates and the
Mac O/S isn't nearly as open as windows, so maybe that explains
why Macs aren't under so much danger of attack.
I obviously cannot comment on Linux enjoying a relatively low
security risk, but looking at it in a political way as above, I
doubt that any bad guys hate anyone developing Linux enough to
intentionally write malware just to annoy them. Also, even bad
guys have limited time so it pays them to concentrate on where
the money is - Windows, and to a lesser extent, Macs. By "money",
I'm talking more about identity theft, phishing, spyware, and the
like and less so viruses and trojans that bring a system down.
If/when Linux becomes a major player in PC O/S and enrages or
encourages enough bad guys, I see no reason why it, too, won't
become a target.
--
HP, aka Jerry
William Poaster
<snip>
Utter bullshit.
But you always were full of it.
<plonk>
William Poaster
<snip>
> If/when Linux becomes a major player in PC O/S and enrages or
> encourages enough bad guys, I see no reason why it, too, won't
> become a target.
And pray tell, in what way "a target"? As *most* of the internet runs on
GNU/LInux, don't you think it would *already* be a target? However the
majority of *attacks* are on M$. Why? Because it's *easier*, just like the
desktops. By default, a linux distro is harder to attack than windows. This
isn't to say that it can't be attacked, but what's the easiest way to enter
a house, through a door or trying to get through a brick wall....
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2005/01/20/unpatched-linux-still-better-than-windows
BTW, FYI Ballmer called GNU/Linux the "Number One Threat" to Microsoft.
Go figure.
HEMI-Powered
du jour ...
William, please forgive the top-posting if you can. I do not have
nearly enough knowledge to even discuss what the OP asserts or
your completely opposite view, so I will hardly dispute either of
you. Perhaps you and others on one "side" or the other of the "Is
Linux a good O/S or not?" debate can understand and at least
appreciate a little bit what some of us confused folks see as no
clear consensus. Again, I refute and insult either the pro-Linux
or the anti-Linux people, I'm just confused. So, I'll ask a
question that covers your entire post: absent the OP being
technically deficient, how can he and you feel so differently
about something so fundamental as installing a printer?
Thank you and have a great day!
--
HP, aka Jerry
HEMI-Powered
du jour ...
>> If/when Linux becomes a major player in PC O/S and enrages or
>> encourages enough bad guys, I see no reason why it, too,
>> won't become a target.
>
> And pray tell, in what way "a target"? As *most* of the
> internet runs on GNU/LInux, don't you think it would *already*
> be a target? However the majority of *attacks* are on M$. Why?
> Because it's *easier*, just like the desktops. By default, a
> linux distro is harder to attack than windows. This isn't to
> say that it can't be attacked, but what's the easiest way to
> enter a house, through a door or trying to get through a brick
> wall....
> http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2005/01/20/unpatche
> d-linux-still-better-than-windows
>
> BTW, FYI Ballmer called GNU/Linux the "Number One Threat" to
> Microsoft. Go figure.
>
"Targets" are nothing more than an above average reason for
something specific to happen. In this context, a "target" O/S is
as simple as one that the bad guys like to exploit vs another
they don't seem to be interested in. I offered my opinion, and it
is just that - MY opinion, YMMV. And, I qualified it by saying
that I have been following Linux but have virtually zero
knowledge, and my Mac knowledge is equally dismal. Will Rogers
once said something to the effect that "everything I know came
from news papers" or some such thing meaning that he really
couldn't verify his knowledge. That was 70 years ago, long before
the so-called "information explosion", the age of digital, 24x7
live news reporting, AND malware on something that didn't even
exist until around 1981 - PCs.
Certainly you are right about MS being easier to exploit, I said
their security was like swiss cheese. And, I imagine Ballmer is
right, if/when his installed base wakes up one morning to hear
about a version of Linux they are willing to finally embrace is
the beginning of the end for Ballmer's company. I don't think
that day has arrived yet for me, but clearly it has for you. So,
I am happy for you and I hope you will allow me the freedom and
right to make a personal choice for myself that right now isn't
Linux.
Thank you, and have a great day!
--
HP, aka Jerry
William Poaster
> William Poaster added these comments in the current discussion
> du jour ...
>
> William, please forgive the top-posting if you can.
NP, top posting is acceptable in this group. :-)
> I do not have nearly enough knowledge to even discuss what the OP asserts
> or your completely opposite view, so I will hardly dispute either of
> you. Perhaps you and others on one "side" or the other of the "Is
> Linux a good O/S or not?" debate can understand and at least
> appreciate a little bit what some of us confused folks see as no
> clear consensus. Again, I refute and insult either the pro-Linux
> or the anti-Linux people, I'm just confused. So, I'll ask a
> question that covers your entire post: absent the OP being
> technically deficient, how can he and you feel so differently
> about something so fundamental as installing a printer?
Well I don't know how *he* was going about installing a printer, but what
could be more simple than the steps I outlined below.
>> KDE Control Centre > Peripherals > Printer > Log in as
>> Administrator > Add Printer. Search down the list > click on
>> HP > 2280 Businessjet. It installs HP's "hpijs" driver. Ubuntu
>> also has "HP's Printer Toolbox" which should already be
>> installed by default: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/hplip
If using the GNOME desktop, the steps are:
System > (Select) Add Printer > Local or Detected Printer > Printer port #1
From the menu select: HP, & Model: BusinessInkjet 2280 > Driver: hpijs
(recommended). Then click on "Install driver". It will either download it,
or install from the cd.
>> And YES, the printer does work in linux:
>> http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-Busines
>> s_Inkjet_2280
> Thank you and have a great day!
And you! :-)