Moisture in the tool box - again!
Grandpa Chuck
my Craftsman 12 drawer tool box and another six drawer one in order to
rearrange tool and get rid of those that are no longer used.
A few months ago after asking about rust on some of the tools I was
advised to wrpe they down with gun oil. I did so after wiping all the
moisture out of the drawer. I also covered the
tools in each drawer with a paper towel that I sprayed oil on.
Well, tonight I discovered every single drawer had moisture in the
front left corner. I had each drawer lined with rubber. When I picked
it up each and every one of them was covered with water on the under
side.
Our basement is dry, especially this time of the year. There are no
water pipes anywhere near the tool boxes.
We have taken every tool out of them and wiped them down with gun oil.
We also have wiped the drawers dry with paper towels. Right now the
tool boxes are setting with the drawers empty and pulled part way out
to make sure they are completely dry before putting any tools in them.
I am wondering if the open waffle type rubber mats might work better
since they should not collect moister.
Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to prevent
this from happening again, especially since I bought some pretty
expensive hand tools this time.
Suggestions please?
Thank you all so much for all of the help you have given me before.
JoeSpareBedroom
news:2ba93894a7d212ff6...@goofysplace.com...
>
> Have you ever noticed when hand tools get wet in the box they smell
> like vomit?
Yeah...vomit.
The OP needs a dehumidifier, no matter how dry he thinks his basement is.
He's obviously wrong.
Leroy
>
> The OP needs a dehumidifier, no matter how dry he thinks his basement is.
> He's obviously wrong.
Correct. Another possible solution is to keep the box in a small
enclosed space with a heat source to keep the tools above
dew point. A 100 watt bulb works wonders in a small enclosure.
Leroy
VanguardLH
news:tvego3d63fq632c30...@4ax.com...
Dry to you doesn't mean dry to inanimate objects which will change in
temperature and when cool provide a surface that has a dewpoint that
causes collection of water. I've been in basements that had mold on
the crumbling cement walls just from the moisture although the tenant
thought the basement was dry. Remember that you are probably cycling
the temperature in your house and your basement is colder (and gets
even more cold when you let the temperature drop upstairs). If dew is
collecting on your cold tools, get a dehumidifier.
Also, although there may be no water/sewer pipes overhead (and no
tracks or stains along the floor supports where the water might flow
away from a leak), is the toolbox next to your air conditioner (in a
window or inside your furnace)? The A/C, when running, will produce
moisture and why there is a collection pan to collect the drops and
let them evaporate. We had the drain line in the A/C inside the
furnace get plugged with "goop" (settled dust that got wet and went
into the drain line) which meant the pan overflowed. Cleaning the
drain tube that goes from the pan to the floor drain fixed that
problem. Whether you use A/C right now depends on where in the world
you are located.
A paper towel impregnated with oil with BLOCK the flow of air, plus
there would be no wicking of the water away from the tools (for what
part contact the towel). An oil coating on the tools might slow
rusting but it won't stop dew from collecting on cold tools. Is the
tool chest in a utility room with the door closed and without any
direct heating into that room? If so, leave the door open or move out
the tool chest into a warm[er] room.
Dan C
> Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to prevent
> this from happening again, especially since I bought some pretty
> expensive hand tools this time.
>
> Suggestions please?
It's condensation. Get a dehumidifier.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
thanatoid
news:tvego3d63fq632c30...@4ax.com:
> I bought some new rather expensive hand tools and decided
> to clean out my Craftsman 12 drawer tool box and another
> six drawer one in order to rearrange tool and get rid of
> those that are no longer used.
>
> A few months ago after asking about rust on some of the
> tools I was advised to wrpe they down with gun oil. I did
> so after wiping all the moisture out of the drawer. I also
> covered the tools in each drawer with a paper towel that I
> sprayed oil on.
>
> Well, tonight I discovered every single drawer had moisture
> in the front left corner. I had each drawer lined with
> rubber. When I picked it up each and every one of them was
> covered with water on the under side.
>
> Our basement is dry, especially this time of the year.
> There are no water pipes anywhere near the tool boxes.
>
> We have taken every tool out of them and wiped them down
> with gun oil. We also have wiped the drawers dry with paper
> towels. Right now the tool boxes are setting with the
> drawers empty and pulled part way out to make sure they are
> completely dry before putting any tools in them.
>
> I am wondering if the open waffle type rubber mats might
> work better since they should not collect moister.
"moisture"
> Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to
> prevent this from happening again, especially since I
> bought some pretty expensive hand tools this time.
>
> Suggestions please?
Hi Grandpa, if that's you! Good to see you again!
Don't use ANY lining. I don't /know/ about rubber but I would
guess its water content (aside from the condensation problem
which affects /everything/) is fairly high.
As we have seen in movies, guns are often kept wrapped in cotton
cloths. Possibly cotton cloths slightly damp with oil. That
/might/ work for tools as well.
Almost EVERYTHING contains water, in however minute amounts
(that's how "instant" cyanoacryalate (did I get it right?) glues
work, by mixing with water and forming the super-bond, and there
is ALWAYS water in the air, and given most environmental
conditions, that water /will/ come out or be "extracted" from
the air (and other things) and condense all over the place,
especially UNDER things.
Use the oil etc. as described, and MAYBE try to get a WHOLE
BUNCH (like a box of hundred) of little silica gel packets to
absorb whatever H20 moisture shows up. Not that I know if it
would work, just an idea. Perhaps someone will comment.
As others have suggested, cold damp basements are not good
places for tools, and a dehumidifier or some source of mild heat
may not be a bad idea.
Or, if the boxes are not terribly heavy you could keep them
under your bed instead of in the basement, and just take them
there to use them.
--
Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion.
Edward Abbey (1927 - 1989)
Plato
>
> A few months ago after asking about rust on some of the tools I was
> advised to wrpe they down with gun oil. I did so after wiping all the
> moisture out of the drawer. I also covered the
> tools in each drawer with a paper towel that I sprayed oil on.
Any metal thing I put in my basement gets rusted. Too humid. Get a
de-humidifier.
Kev
"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandp...@B4me.org> wrote in message
news:tvego3d63fq632c30...@4ax.com...
> Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to prevent
> this from happening again, especially since I bought some pretty
> expensive hand tools this time.
>
> Suggestions please?
Have you tried silica gel pouches in the boxes? Cheaper than dehumidiers :-)
Kev
William Poaster
You could put small bags of silica gel in each drawer, perhaps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel
Our company often used to pack large bags of it around machinery for
transportation.
--
Windows free for 10 years!
Kubuntu Linux 7.10 64bit
PCLinuxOS 2007
Grandpa Chuck
>[X-posted to alt.home.repair]
>
>Have you ever noticed when hand tools get wet in the box they smell
>like vomit?
No, there is no odor.
Grandpa Chuck
So you are saying to run the dehumidifier even though we are running a
humidifier on the first and second floor?
The dehumidifier is normally run near the washer, the drier and the
floor drain. Do I need to run it near the tool boxes at the opposite
end of the basement?
Grandpa Chuck
wrote:
What exactly are you calling a small space. The main toolbox is
approximately 6' tall and 3' wide. The smaller one sets on a set of
shelves at a right angle. They are close enough that I cannot open the
drawer of one while the upper drawers of the top one are open. If I
build a tiny room around them it will interfere with being able to use
my table saw or my band saw at all angles. It also will make it very
difficulty to get tools when I am working on the adjoining workbench.
I even put small containers of moisture absorbing pellets in plastic
containers in each drawer, except for the very small ones where they
won't fit. Here in Iowa the winter weather is notoriously dry and in
the summer exceedingly humid.
Grandpa Chuck
<youmust...@lan.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 04:20:38 +0000, Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>
>> Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to prevent
>> this from happening again, especially since I bought some pretty
>> expensive hand tools this time.
>>
>> Suggestions please?
>
>It's condensation. Get a dehumidifier.
In the winter when we are running two humidifiers because the weather
is so terribly dry here?
Grandpa Chuck
<youmust...@lan.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 04:20:38 +0000, Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>
>> Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to prevent
>> this from happening again, especially since I bought some pretty
>> expensive hand tools this time.
>>
>> Suggestions please?
>
>It's condensation. Get a dehumidifier.
And put it where?
We have to run two humidifiers to keep from electrocuting ourselves
when we touch anything metal or our cats and dogs.
Grandpa Chuck
Are you suggesting we keep the basement registers open in order to
keep the basement warmer? By the way the tool boxes are quite a number
of feet from the furnace/air conditioner which has two pipes to drain
water into the sub pump pit.
Grandpa Chuck
wrote:
It's good to hear from you again too.
Our basement is never below 69º F. If I open the registers it will be
just as warm down there as it is in the living room.
Put them under the bed? Our bed is an old fashioned water bed with a
regular mattress and drawers underneath. Beside which the tool boxed
weigh several hundred pound and I am not to lift more than 25 pounds
since I injured my back carrying a 50# bag of rock salt.
I am wondering if your suggestion of not lining the drawers with
anything and just putting a small container of the moisture collecting
pellets in each drawer might work better.
Grandpa Chuck
TY
Please read previous answers.
VanguardLH
> So you are saying to run the dehumidifier even though we are running
> a
> humidifier on the first and second floor?
>
> The dehumidifier is normally run near the washer, the drier and the
> floor drain. Do I need to run it near the tool boxes at the opposite
> end of the basement?
Is there actually a heat duct feeding *into* your workroom AND a
cold-air return duct (which is available even with the door closed) so
that there is air movement through that room? Try leaving open the
door to that room and put in a floor-standing fan pointed at the top
of the door to keep the air circulating through that room. We had a
similar problem: running a dehumidifier at one end of the basement did
not help to keep a storage room at the other end from getting damp
until we put a fan in the doorway to keep the air moving through that
far room.
If you are using a standing dehumidifier (i.e., not built into your
furnace/vent system), have you connected a hose to its drain pan to
continually let any collected water get drained (into a floor drain)?
Until we did that so the humidifier would keep running, it would fill
up the drain pan inside and then stop after which the humidity went
back up. It would run a few hours and then be off for a week so it
really wasn't doing much. I then punched a hole in the bottom side of
the drain pan and connected a garden hose that ran to the floor drain.
Although it is winter, do you ever hear the dehumidifier turn on that
is down in the basement? Have you checked its pan is drained and that
the floater is free to move? Tried turning it on at full reduction
(but not in a constant-on mode) and moved the floater to check the
unit does indeed turn on and off?
Grandpa Chuck
I have the pellets that I put in small containers with a few holes
punched in the lids so they don't spill.
Nate Nagel
This topic got me thinking... instead of using rubber drawer liners for
my toolbox I was thinking of using oil soaked cardboard. good idea/bad
idea? only possible downside I can think of is "possible fire hazard..."
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
VanguardLH
> Are you suggesting we keep the basement registers open in order to
> keep the basement warmer? By the way the tool boxes are quite a
> number
> of feet from the furnace/air conditioner which has two pipes to
> drain
> water into the sub pump pit.
I'd first suggest putting a fan in the toolbox area to ensure there is
airflow in that area which the basement dehumidifier could then dry
out or to simply raise the workroom's air temperature to raise the dew
point in there. Doesn't sound like you have a warm-air outlet into
the workroom (and the cold-air return, if one isn't present, would be
thwarted if you close the door). I don't know if using a fan to keep
the air circulating through the workroom would be cheaper than
cracking open the warm-air register (and making sure there was a
cold-air return path). A fan or warm-air inlet would seem to be easy
to test to see if that resolves the wet tool problem. You wouldn't
have to wait a month, or more, to see if the rusting stopped if you
put a hygrometer in the workroom to check if the humidity went down.
Grandpa Chuck
<Vangu...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>"Grandpa Chuck" wrote in message
>news:mc3io3hcfdfntfag4...@4ax.com...
>> So you are saying to run the dehumidifier even though we are running
>> a
>> humidifier on the first and second floor?
>>
>> The dehumidifier is normally run near the washer, the drier and the
>> floor drain. Do I need to run it near the tool boxes at the opposite
>> end of the basement?
>
>
>Is there actually a heat duct feeding *into* your workroom
Yes, kind of.
>AND a
>cold-air return duct (which is available even with the door closed) so
>that there is air movement through that room?
There are no doors. Our basement is all open with the furnace near the
center and the washer and drier at the other end of the basement.
> Try leaving open the
>door to that room and put in a floor-standing fan pointed at the top
>of the door to keep the air circulating through that room. We had a
>similar problem: running a dehumidifier at one end of the basement did
>not help to keep a storage room at the other end from getting damp
>until we put a fan in the doorway to keep the air moving through that
>far room.
A quiet slow running fan either on the floor or ceiling might be a
good idea. Gee whiz, we just donated two ceiling fans to the Salvation
Army, but they would have hung to low for anyone over 5'8".
>
>If you are using a standing dehumidifier (i.e., not built into your
>furnace/vent system), have you connected a hose to its drain pan to
>continually let any collected water get drained (into a floor drain)?
It is into our sump pump pit. That makes sure there is enough water in
the pit to keep it from drying out during the dry months.
>Until we did that so the humidifier would keep running, it would fill
>up the drain pan inside and then stop after which the humidity went
>back up. It would run a few hours and then be off for a week so it
>really wasn't doing much. I then punched a hole in the bottom side of
>the drain pan and connected a garden hose that ran to the floor drain.
>
>Although it is winter, do you ever hear the dehumidifier turn on that
>is down in the basement?
No and it does have a PVC pipe hooked to the bottom of the pan.
> Have you checked its pan is drained and that
>the floater is free to move? Tried turning it on at full reduction
>(but not in a constant-on mode) and moved the floater to check the
>unit does indeed turn on and off?
Yes. Thanks for the suggestions.
Grandpa Chuck
I have an antique fan hanging from the ceiling that I can run all of
the time. Only thing is it is very noisy. Guess I need to replace it
with a low power, quiet one.
VanguardLH
>>Is there actually a heat duct feeding *into* your workroom
>
> Yes, kind of.
Kind of? Does that mean you have leave the door at the head of the
basement stairs open to get any heat into the basement?
>>AND a
>>cold-air return duct (which is available even with the door closed)
>>so
>>that there is air movement through that room?
>
> There are no doors. Our basement is all open with the furnace near
> the
> center and the washer and drier at the other end of the basement.
There is probably a cold-air grill at a vent that leads into the
furnace to pickup from near the basement floor. But you would still
need a warm-air feed into the room to get some circulation in that big
one-room basement. If the warm-air inlet is close to the cold-air
return, there won't be much circulation through the rest of the room.
Do you only heat the room when you are using the workroom?
If it is just one big room, a table fan pointing at one wall in the
corner might be enough to draw air across that corner. It would
probably help even at lowest speed.
Do the toolboxes sit directly on the concrete floor, or are they atop
a wood plank or shelf to get them off the concrete floor?
What is the type of construction for the basement walls? Concrete
blocks? Stones with mortar? Concrete plaster over stones and mortar?
I'm wondering if ground moisture is getting wicked into the basement.
DanG
keep the basement conditioned? I suspect the box and the basement
are allowed to get fairly cold and then you open or turn on a
register that warms the box on one end while you are down there or
there is a fresh air intake or draft causing a cold end on the
box.
Circulation, dehumidification, moving the box out of the path of
the register could all help.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgri...@7cox.net
"G. Morgan" <n...@thank.you> wrote in message
news:2ba93894a7d212ff6...@goofysplace.com...
> Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>
> [X-posted to alt.home.repair]
>
> Have you ever noticed when hand tools get wet in the box they
> smell
> like vomit?
>
> --
>
> -G
JoeSpareBedroom
These desiccant packets will fit. They're only 1/2" thick.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=799452&t=11082005
But, tool boxes aren't sealed, so in effect, you're trying to absorb
moisture from the whole basement with these things. Couldn't hurt, but
probably not the idea solution.
Blinky the Shark
> I have an antique fan hanging from the ceiling that I can run all of the
> time. Only thing is it is very noisy. Guess I need to replace it with a
> low power, quiet one.
Check the Salvation Army. ;)
--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
Jerry G.
damp. Then when the environment is dry, they will release dampness in to
the room. Large temperature changes will also allow for moisture
condensation.
One solution to reduce moisture accumulation is to have a way for the
storage area or drawers to breath. Humidity and temperature control is
the best way to prevent moisture build-up.
--
Jerry G.
"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandp...@B4me.org> wrote in message
news:tvego3d63fq632c30...@4ax.com...
Grandpa Chuck
Question: Most newsgroups I participate in advertising is considered
spamming and is forbidden. Is this newsgroup different?
Grandpa Chuck
<Vangu...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandp...@B4me.org> wrote in message
>news:jb8io3hqvcph1dhn5...@4ax.com...
>>>Is there actually a heat duct feeding *into* your workroom
>>
>> Yes, kind of.
>
>Kind of? Does that mean you have leave the door at the head of the
>basement stairs open to get any heat into the basement?
Not at all. There are two registers in the main duct in the basement
that we normally leave open only a little or not at all.
Since you asked there is a cat door in the door between the main floor
and the basement.
>
>>>AND a
>>>cold-air return duct (which is available even with the door closed)
>>>so
>>>that there is air movement through that room?
>>
>> There are no doors. Our basement is all open with the furnace near
>> the
>> center and the washer and drier at the other end of the basement.
>
>There is probably a cold-air grill at a vent that leads into the
>furnace to pickup from near the basement floor
Not really, but I did leave one open at chest height where I took out
the whole house humidifier after it stopped working. The heating/air
conditioning contractor that installed the furnace said the just throw
it away and leave an opening as an added cold air return.
> But you would still
>need a warm-air feed into the room to get some circulation in that big
>one-room basement.
It is 25' X 27'' or close to it.
>If the warm-air inlet is close to the cold-air
>return, there won't be much circulation through the rest of the room.
>
>Do you only heat the room when you are using the workroom?
Usually we have them part way open. However, when the outdoor
temperature gets below 10º we open both all the way. It's quite cozy
down there.
>
>If it is just one big room, a table fan pointing at one wall in the
>corner might be enough to draw air across that corner. It would
>probably help even at lowest speed.
>
>Do the toolboxes sit directly on the concrete floor, or are they atop
>a wood plank or shelf to get them off the concrete floor?
The large one is on wheels. The smaller one is on a plastic shelf. The
problem is the same in both.
>
>What is the type of construction for the basement walls? Concrete
>blocks? Stones with mortar? Concrete plaster over stones and mortar?
>I'm wondering if ground moisture is getting wicked into the basement.
Stone City stone covered with mortar and paint. We are at the top of a
hill and it takes one hell of a lot of rain for us to get any water.
Even then it comes in under the cement slab 3 1/2" thick I poured for
the washer and drier to set on. When I do see it there is only a
trickle and it lasts for no more than two days.
Grandpa Chuck
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>
>> I have an antique fan hanging from the ceiling that I can run all of the
>> time. Only thing is it is very noisy. Guess I need to replace it with a
>> low power, quiet one.
>
>Check the Salvation Army. ;)
I believe my wife still has one she had under her desk when she worked
at a call center here in town. Leaving that job was the bet thing she
ever did.
JoeSpareBedroom
I gave you a link to a product I use. You confused it with an advertisement.
Desiccant in skinny metal containers like that is NOT easy to find.
Now, say "thank you".
Grandpa Chuck
<jerr...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>If you have a cement floor and walls, they tend to absorb moisture when
>damp. Then when the environment is dry, they will release dampness in to
>the room. Large temperature changes will also allow for moisture
>condensation.
>
>One solution to reduce moisture accumulation is to have a way for the
>storage area or drawers to breath. Humidity and temperature control is
>the best way to prevent moisture build-up.
And how would you do that other than keeping all the drawers and the
top constantly open?
Grandpa Chuck
<dishbo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mia culpa
Thank you Joe.
Grandpa Chuck
I would like to subscribe.
HeyBub
>
> What exactly are you calling a small space. The main toolbox is
> approximately 6' tall and 3' wide. The smaller one sets on a set of
> shelves at a right angle. They are close enough that I cannot open the
> drawer of one while the upper drawers of the top one are open. If I
> build a tiny room around them it will interfere with being able to use
> my table saw or my band saw at all angles. It also will make it very
> difficulty to get tools when I am working on the adjoining workbench.
> I even put small containers of moisture absorbing pellets in plastic
> containers in each drawer, except for the very small ones where they
> won't fit. Here in Iowa the winter weather is notoriously dry and in
> the summer exceedingly humid.
Buy a hygrometer and find out exactly how much humidity you have and where
it's coming from.
Dan C
>>> Most importantly, I am wondering what I can do in order to prevent
>>> this from happening again, especially since I bought some pretty
>>> expensive hand tools this time.
>>It's condensation. Get a dehumidifier.
> In the winter when we are running two humidifiers because the weather
> is so terribly dry here?
Then stop running the humidifiers. I don't care. Whatever you have to
do. As I (and others) have told you, the moisture on your tools is
condensation. If you want to solve the problem, then either warm up the
space, or lessen the humidity. If you don't want to do either of those,
then your problem will remain. <shrug>
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Blinky the Shark
Yeah, it must've been weird all right, with a ceiling fan under her desk.
And dangerous, too. ;)
Red
>
> Have you ever noticed when hand tools get wet in the box they smell
> like vomit?
>
I have the opposite problem. Tools in a closed toolbox in the trunk
of my car in the hot summer smell like vomit. Found out it's the
plastic handles on Craftsman screwdrivers that get really funky when
exposed to heat over a long period.
Red
aemeijers
but only use maybe half a dozen times a year. (These are my 'good'
tools, I keep cheap crap in the car and at the office, so I won't cry
too hard when they get stolen.) The damn things STILL stink when I open
the box after a long time sealed up. Don't know what plastic compound
their contractor manufacturer uses, but it outgasses like mad. Heat
doesn't seem to be a factor- these live in a plastic box in a cool
basement, after many years living in a cabinet in a climate-controlled
apartment.
aem sends...
JoeSpareBedroom
news:cSgij.130114$MJ6.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I wonder if stink is covered under the Craftsman lifetime warranty.
olfart
"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishbo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lTgij.2063$7d1....@news01.roc.ny...
VanguardLH
A chest-high opening means there is no cold-air return. That would be
a return but with warmed air. From the furnaces that I've seen, the
basement cold-air return is at ankle height in the return duct to the
furnace just before the bend in the duct where it goes into the
furnace. Sounds like you are warming the air (with the humidity added
by the flame) which makes it comfy for you but might not have adequate
air flow. Without an adequate cold-air return to also act as a
combustion air opening for the furnace, carbon monoxide could be a
problem. Hopefully there are combustion openings in the furnace to
direct air under the burners that you aren't aware off. Might not be
a problem now but restricted air flow over the burners can get them
dirty and burn less efficiently which will raise the CO level. In one
house, I fainted (just once but that was enough) because of CO, I put
in an electronic CO detector and found the level somewhat high, and
found the cold-air return had been plugged by a severe accumulation of
dust over the grill. Once cleaned, the CO level went down. The
furnace needs a cold-air return or combustion opening near floor
level.
My mother had the stone & mortar construction for the basement. We
had to run the dehumidifier and a fan down there to keep mold from
growing on the walls, even in winter. The dehumidifier did run less
during the winter but it did run. Another problem with her, though,
was that the backyard sloped toward her house instead of away from it.
Her basement extends further than the frostline which means ground
water is not frozen and can still wick through the mortar. For many
years she couldn't use her basement because of the mold and her asthma
and she even took her laundry to her sister's until I repeatedly
bleached & vinegared the walls and then put the fan and dehumidifier
down there. If you see water trickling on the walls during heavy
rainfall, it is also wicking the ground water below the frostline but
you probably won't see the damp spots. From my mother's experience, I
would never buy a house with that basement construction. One house
tried to hide it by layering concrete over the stone & mortar but
after years the concrete started crumbling away and it didn't stop the
seepage, anyway.
Whiskers
> What is the location that a lot of you are answering from?
> I would like to subscribe.
I'm guessing that you mean you've noticed some names not normally seen
here in 24hoursupport.helpdesk. That's because someone started
cross-posting from this thread into the newsgroup alt.home.repair, which
is where the 'others' seem to be. Just look at the Newsgroups header when
you're reading an article to see if it was 'cross-posted'.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Whiskers
> "Grandpa Chuck" wrote in message
> news:qkkio3tgctm0av68d...@4ax.com...
[...]
> My mother had the stone & mortar construction for the basement. We
> had to run the dehumidifier and a fan down there to keep mold from
> growing on the walls, even in winter. The dehumidifier did run less
> during the winter but it did run. Another problem with her, though,
> was that the backyard sloped toward her house instead of away from it.
> Her basement extends further than the frostline which means ground
> water is not frozen and can still wick through the mortar. For many
> years she couldn't use her basement because of the mold and her asthma
> and she even took her laundry to her sister's until I repeatedly
> bleached & vinegared the walls and then put the fan and dehumidifier
> down there. If you see water trickling on the walls during heavy
> rainfall, it is also wicking the ground water below the frostline but
> you probably won't see the damp spots. From my mother's experience, I
> would never buy a house with that basement construction. One house
> tried to hide it by layering concrete over the stone & mortar but
> after years the concrete started crumbling away and it didn't stop the
> seepage, anyway.
I'm not familiar with the way north-Americans heat their houses, so I
can't comment on that (beyond agreeing that getting a properly qualified
heating engineer to install, maintain, and check the efficiency and
safety, is a Very Good Idea - particularly if the heating system involves
combustion; 'handymen' and DIYers lack the training to spot and correct
potentially troublesome or dangerous mistakes or failures).
As for damp leaky basements, here in the UK I think it's a legal
requirement that any part of a dwelling that's below ground level must be
'tanked', ie given a water-proof shell or lining. Of course that does
nothing to prevent condensation, which is down to the way the heating,
ventilation, and insulation, are managed. We do know a bit about damp,
in these islands :))
Grandpa Chuck
What a good idea!
Dan C
>>Buy a hygrometer and find out exactly how much humidity you have and where
>>it's coming from.
> What a good idea!
One of many that you've been given. Will you ignore this one too?
Grandpa Chuck
<Vangu...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>"Grandpa Chuck" wrote in message
>news:qkkio3tgctm0av68d...@4ax.com...
>
>A chest-high opening means there is no cold-air return. That would be
>a return but with warmed air. From the furnaces that I've seen, the
>basement cold-air return is at ankle height in the return duct to the
>furnace just before the bend in the duct where it goes into the
>furnace. Sounds like you are warming the air (with the humidity added
>by the flame) which makes it comfy for you but might not have adequate
>air flow. Without an adequate cold-air return to also act as a
>combustion air opening for the furnace, carbon monoxide could be a
>problem.
I have a good CO detector on every floor of the house. I know it is
good quality because it save the lives of my daughter, her husband and
their two daughters.
> Hopefully there are combustion openings in the furnace to
>direct air under the burners that you aren't aware off.
There are and I am. The contractor that installed our high efficiency
furnace/AC was one of the most sought after contractors in this area.
Unfortunately he died at age 56 from pancreatic cancer and his son was
not interested in taking over the business. What a loss.
> Might not be
>a problem now but restricted air flow over the burners can get them
>dirty and burn less efficiently which will raise the CO level. In one
>house, I fainted (just once but that was enough) because of CO, I put
>in an electronic CO detector and found the level somewhat high, and
>found the cold-air return had been plugged by a severe accumulation of
>dust over the grill. Once cleaned, the CO level went down. The
>furnace needs a cold-air return or combustion opening near floor
>level.
I may consider putting one in at a low level. It's and easy job and I
can even build it so it accepts a filter.
>
>My mother had the stone & mortar construction for the basement. We
>had to run the dehumidifier and a fan down there to keep mold from
>growing on the walls, even in winter. The dehumidifier did run less
>during the winter but it did run. Another problem with her, though,
>was that the backyard sloped toward her house instead of away from it.
>Her basement extends further than the frostline which means ground
>water is not frozen and can still wick through the mortar. For many
>years she couldn't use her basement because of the mold and her asthma
>and she even took her laundry to her sister's until I repeatedly
>bleached & vinegared the walls and then put the fan and dehumidifier
>down there. If you see water trickling on the walls during heavy
>rainfall, it is also wicking the ground water below the frostline but
>you probably won't see the damp spots.
Never. Our house is at the high point of our lot. Water drains to the
south and east on those sides of the house and to the west and north
on those sides. The only place I ever get any water is on the west
side and is a very small trickle if we have had rains for days. A
small part of our dog pen is flat and allows water to collect in that
area. Come spring I need to pick up the patio blocks there, add some
dirt and then replace them so the water will flow away to the east. We
have never had a mold problem in our basement. My wife has lived in
this house for over fifty years and the only time she has seen water
down there was a couple of times when the sewer plugged and backed up.
If that isn't a fun job to take care of with the 100' sewer snake we
have. The last time I called RotoRooter.
> From my mother's experience, I
>would never buy a house with that basement construction. One house
>tried to hide it by layering concrete over the stone & mortar but
>after years the concrete started crumbling away and it didn't stop the
>seepage, anyway.
Our house was built in 1909 and is where her parents lived when she
was born. I doubt if I could pry her out of here unless it was to move
to a warmer climate. However, we have never seen one that could hold a
candle to the beauty we have here in Iowa with the changing seasons.
Grandpa Chuck
We do not have a leaky or wet basement. Our oldest son is licensed in
heating/air conditioning and checks it for us every fall.
Grandpa Chuck
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:58:44 -0800, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have an antique fan hanging from the ceiling that I can run all of
>>>> the time. Only thing is it is very noisy. Guess I need to replace it
>>>> with a low power, quiet one.
>>>
>>>Check the Salvation Army. ;)
>>
>> I believe my wife still has one she had under her desk when she worked at
>> a call center here in town. Leaving that job was the bet thing she ever
>> did.
>
>Yeah, it must've been weird all right, with a ceiling fan under her desk.
>And dangerous, too. ;)
LOL
The fan she has/had is a very small 2 speed fan designed to set on the
floor or on the desk. She says she knows it's here - just not where
for sure. I looked through the basement so I know it isn't there. We
have a so-called sewing room which used to be the guest room. Like
many Americans it has slowly filled up with things too precious to
give away (so she says) that we haven't used for years. I can't even
get close to my sewing table. Yes, I do the sewing and mending.
Grandpa Chuck
Got it. Thank you.
Grandpa Chuck
<youmust...@lan.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:59:47 +0000, Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>
>>>Buy a hygrometer and find out exactly how much humidity you have and where
>>>it's coming from.
>
>> What a good idea!
>
>One of many that you've been given. Will you ignore this one too?
Dan, I have not ignored any of them. Some apply and some do not. It's
as simple as that. Right now I have the drawers open and I have a 20"
box fan running on low down there. I will adjust the dehumidifier so
it will come on automatically if the humidity rises too much, and yes
I will get a hygrometer the next time we are out and near Home Depot
or Menards. I have seen some cheapies at WalMart, but don't feel they
are trustworthy.
By the way, what makes you think I have ignored the other suggestions?
Or are you just being smug without knowing the facts?
Grandpa Chuck
So far I have not seen a single posting there.
Grandpa Chuck
>Hi Grandpa,
>
>I was the one who cross posted your message to alt.home.repair what
>do you mean you have not seen a single posting there? It is a very
>busy NG (busier than this one). Are you seeing any messages at all?
Not a one. I click on "Get New Headers in Folders" in Agent and it
comes up empty.
I will post one in there to see if we can see it.
HeyBub
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:09:50 -0600, Dan C
> <youmust...@lan.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:59:47 +0000, Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>>
>>>> Buy a hygrometer and find out exactly how much humidity you have
>>>> and where it's coming from.
>>
>>> What a good idea!
>>
>> One of many that you've been given. Will you ignore this one too?
>
> Dan, I have not ignored any of them. Some apply and some do not. It's
> as simple as that. Right now I have the drawers open and I have a 20"
> box fan running on low down there. I will adjust the dehumidifier so
> it will come on automatically if the humidity rises too much, and yes
> I will get a hygrometer the next time we are out and near Home Depot
> or Menards. I have seen some cheapies at WalMart, but don't feel they
> are trustworthy.
Here's three:
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=hygrometer
Here's about 350 more
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=hygrometer&category0=
Grandpa Chuck
Fantastic!
There is a Harbor Freight across the street from Menards.
Grandpa Chuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:34:24 -0600, G. Morgan <n...@thank.you> wrote:
>
>>Grandpa Chuck wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:52:58 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
>>><Grandp...@B4me.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:37:32 +0000, Whiskers
>>>><catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2008-01-13, Grandpa Chuck <Grandp...@B4me.org> wrote:
>>>>>> What is the location that a lot of you are answering from?
>>>>>> I would like to subscribe.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm guessing that you mean you've noticed some names not normally seen
>>>>>here in 24hoursupport.helpdesk. That's because someone started
>>>>>cross-posting from this thread into the newsgroup alt.home.repair, which
>>>>>is where the 'others' seem to be. Just look at the Newsgroups header when
>>>>>you're reading an article to see if it was 'cross-posted'.
>>>>
>>>>Got it. Thank you.
>>>
>>>So far I have not seen a single posting there.
>>
>>
>>Hi Grandpa,
>>
>>I was the one who cross posted your message to alt.home.repair what
>>do you mean you have not seen a single posting there? It is a very
>>busy NG (busier than this one). Are you seeing any messages at all?
>
>Not a one. I click on "Get New Headers in Folders" in Agent and it
>comes up empty.
>
>I will post one in there to see if we can see it.
I finally found it. There were over 8,000 posts to go through until I
found my subject line. I have agent set up to block cross-posts and I
had to deactivate that. Immediately after sending this I intend to
reactivate it. There are far too many kooks posting to the other
newsgroups I regularly post in.
Thank you all for so many ideas. Right now there is now moisture in
the tool boxes. However there is an oil film in a number of them. I
will take a rag with either alcohol or mineral spirits on it to get
rid of that.
I still do not know if I should be using the open waffle type shelf
lining in the drawers since those have regular square holes though
them. Any suggestions, or should I just lay the tools on the painted
surface? I do know one thing now. That is that I have way too many
cheap tools that need to go to the Salvation Army. I don't believe the
drawers should have more than one layer of tools in each one and they
should not touch one another.
I am going to leave the new tools in the plastic case they came in
since there is a tight fitting molded spot for each of them and it is
air and water tight.
Paul Oman
leave a micro film on surfaces in confined spaces).
paul
Grandpa Chuck
wrote:
Thanks Paul. I bookmarked it for reference when I have more time, like
after my wife goes to work.