Re: Digest for 1858-playtest-discussion@googlegroups.com - 11 Messages in 4 Topics

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Jan 16, 2011, 11:39:49 PM1/16/11
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>consider the design to be essentially complete and are looking for
>people to vet the rules or are you interested in comments on changing
>the game?
I'll answer this one in a separate mail, since it's likely to be a long answer...
Ian,

Then you might want to post it.  I find as I playtest, I am looking for different things and I might not find a problem until I've played it a few times.  Knowing what parts, if any, are open to rewrite/modification might help me out a bit.

My two cents, so far.

Robert Schroeder



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Subject: Digest for 1858-playtes...@googlegroups.com - 11 Messages in 4 Topics

 Topic: Toponyms
    Jose-san <josesan...@hotmail.com> Jan 16 02:30PM -0800 ^
     
    Just to point out two minor typos on the map:
     
    Cacares -> Caceres
    Huevla -> Huelva
     
    Jose
     
    Dave4B <walama...@o2.co.uk> Jan 16 05:51AM -0800 ^
     
    "... he nominates one of the unsold Private Companies and bids a
    multiple of £5 ..."
    What is the exchange rate berteen Pounds and Pesetas?
     
    "Phase 4 starts on the purchase of the first 6H/4M Train."
    I think you mean 6H/3M.
     
    I'd suggest applying colour to the Charters, to make them easier to
    associate with the tokens/shares.
     
    Printing "Available after first 4H/2M is purchased" in Green might
    highlight the phase the secondard Privates are available.
     
    Ian D Wilson <ianwil...@btinternet.com> Jan 16 03:26PM ^
     
    >"... he nominates one of the unsold Private Companies and bids a
    >multiple of £5 ..."
    >What is the exchange rate berteen Pounds and Pesetas?
    Ooops. £1=P1
     
    >"Phase 4 starts on the purchase of the first 6H/4M Train."
    >I think you mean 6H/3M.
    Yes.
     
    >associate with the tokens/shares.
    >Printing "Available after first 4H/2M is purchased" in Green might
    >highlight the phase the secondard Privates are available.
    Noted.
     
    Ian D
     
     
     
    "Gregory R. Payne" <shrapn...@gmail.com> Jan 16 09:33PM ^
     
    How big is the bank? The rules don't say, and I can't remember.
     
    Greg
     
    Scott Petersen <sc...@redracecar.com> Jan 16 08:21AM -0600 ^
     
    On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 3:59 AM, Ian D Wilson
     
    > The rules only forbid going over 60% if you are buying a share (from the Pool or Company). There is no such restriction when exchanging a private (which is classed as a sell action). Also, there is no requirement to sell down to 60%, should you use this means to go over.
     
    > This raises an old problem with writing 18xx rules: how many non-rules do you put in, to negate "common practice" rules like this? I have put in a note about no fully-sold-at-end-of-SR, for example.
     
    Ian, when I read the sections related to these items, I incorrectly
    inferred that the rules would somewhere else mention that players must
    sell down to 60% when possible. I'd say this would be worth adding as
    a "non-rule."
     
    Some other comments.
     
    1. The last sentence of the second to last paragraph of page 5 was
    initially confusing to me. "If a player with the double-share
    non-Director Certificate exceeds the holding of the Director, he must
    exchange the double-share certificate for the Director Certificate."
    Perhaps it would have been more clear to me to add the words "junior"
    and "senior?"
     
    2. This sentence was confusing to me as well "Private Companies
    placing track in home hexes have to align the track to connect to the
    other home hexes of Privates shown in that hex." I think it means that
    if there are Privates marked on the map, the yellow tile must be laid
    to match them. Some have one, some have two, so there is sometimes an
    option of what to play and sometimes not. Perhaps it would be good for
    the rules to refer to the printed private routes.
     
    3. How well do the privates work in practice once tiles start getting
    laid? Since there is no token for the Privates, I assume players need
    to remember where their home city is. Not much of a problem, but do
    people ever forget and have to later check which city they run from?
     
    4. Could you talk about where you are in the design process? Do you
    consider the design to be essentially complete and are looking for
    people to vet the rules or are you interested in comments on changing
    the game?
     
    Ian D Wilson <ianwil...@btinternet.com> Jan 16 03:54PM ^
     
    >inferred that the rules would somewhere else mention that players must
    >sell down to 60% when possible.  I'd say this would be worth adding as
    >a "non-rule."
    Noted. There are two schools of thought.
     
    >exchange the double-share certificate for the Director Certificate."
    >Perhaps it would have been more clear to me to add the words "junior"
    >and "senior?"
    Probably. I'll have another look at the next revision.
     
    >to match them.  Some have one, some have two, so there is sometimes an
    >option of what to play and sometimes not. Perhaps it would be good for
    >the rules to refer to the printed private routes.
    Mmmm. This rule was always going to be tricky to write. Perhaps an example or two would be helpful?
     
    >laid?  Since there is no token for the Privates, I assume players need
    >to remember where their home city is.  Not much of a problem, but do
    >people ever forget and have to later check which city they run from?
    Generally it's not too bad. I'd recommend printing out the one-sheet map to refer to (it's even more useful when it comes to placing tokens of majors).
    Note: privates can build from any of their home hexes, not just their home city/cities.
     
    >consider the design to be essentially complete and are looking for
    >people to vet the rules or are you interested in comments on changing
    >the game?
    I'll answer this one in a separate mail, since it's likely to be a long answer...
     
    Ian D
     
     
    Ian D Wilson <ianwil...@btinternet.com> Jan 16 04:23PM ^
     
    >consider the design to be essentially complete and are looking for
    >people to vet the rules or are you interested in comments on changing
    >the game?
    This game has been under design for many years. It has gone through several major revisions. Earlier versions were either hopelessly unbalanced or dreadfully dull. I now feel the game is OK but needs some fine-tuning: I don't want to change anything fundamental but small changes are going to be neccessary and/or desirable.
     
    Obviously, I welcome reports of any loopholes, ambiguities, typos etc. you might find in the rules.
     
    One area of concern for me at the moment is the start prices of the privates. They have already gone through one revision (details available on request). The auction mechanism should balance any problems, at least amoungst experienced players, but ideally each private should be worth around face value. (The start capital is slightly higher than the sum of the face values of the privates.)
     
    Another problem is that starting your first company in Portugal seems to be a recipe for coming last. It just seems to be a product of the geography, a bit like Italy in 18EU (for example). Perhaps I should include this in a 'strategy guide'.
     
    Ian D
     
     
     
    eddyln <john...@yahoo.com> Jan 15 02:49PM -0800 ^
     
    hi ian
     
    in the rules it says, 'limit of share buying is 60%' if shares BOUGHT.
     
    it also says you can exchange shares for privates.
     
    it makes no mention of the 60% rule above for BUYING.
     
    i think when we played it, you could end up with 80% or 100% of a
    company this way.
     
    in the current rules, i don't think it says that this IS ALLOWED.
     
    i also don't think it says if, once done, you can retain the excess
    shares over 60% forever, or if you have to sell them later.
     
    clarification please?
     
    ta
     
    john b
     
    Ian D Wilson <ianwil...@btinternet.com> Jan 16 09:59AM ^
     
    Hi John,
     
    The rules only forbid going over 60% if you are buying a share (from the Pool or Company). There is no such restriction when exchanging a private (which is classed as a sell action). Also, there is no requirement to sell down to 60%, should you use this means to go over.
     
    This raises an old problem with writing 18xx rules: how many non-rules do you put in, to negate "common practice" rules like this? I have put in a note about no fully-sold-at-end-of-SR, for example.
     
    Cheers,
    Ian D
     
    --- On Sat, 15/1/11, eddyln <john...@yahoo.com> wrote:
     
     
    From: eddyln <john...@yahoo.com>
    Subject: 60% share ownership rule
    To: "1858 playtest discussion" <1858-playtes...@googlegroups.com>
    Date: Saturday, 15 January, 2011, 22:49
     
     
    hi ian
     
    in the rules it says, 'limit of share buying is 60%' if shares BOUGHT.
     
    it also says you can exchange shares for privates.
     
    it makes no mention of the 60% rule above for BUYING.
     
    i think when we played it, you could end up with 80% or 100% of a
    company this way.
     
    in the current rules, i don't think it says that this IS ALLOWED.
     
    i also don't think it says if, once done, you can retain the excess
    shares over 60% forever, or if you have to sell them later.
     
    clarification please?
     
    ta
     
    john b
     
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