A Question About eBay and paypal
ssoo...@live.com
change in eBay policy has made me wonder about the legality of it.
Here goes:
All items listed for sale on eBay.co.uk have to offer PayPal as an
accepted payment method.
They have a policy that states that sellers must not selectively offer
paypal as a payment method to buyers or discourage buyers from using
paypal.
If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other
than as required by paypal, your transaction will not qualify for
paypal's Seller Protection Programme.
So now a scammer can buy an item listed as collection only, pay for it
by paypal, and then start an Item Not Received claim with paypal.
Paypal will ask the seller to provide them with on-line traceable
proof that they delivered the item by an accepted method. THE SELLER
WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO THIS AND PAYPAL WILL REFUND THE BUYER.
I know I am clutching at straws here, but does anyone know of any laws
that prohibit eBay and paypal introducing a rule that so openly
invites fraudulent behaviour?
Thanks
Tim Buck Too
<ssoo...@live.com> wrote in message
news:d72b24f3-bb58-4039...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>I don't know if there are many eBay users out there, but a recent
> change in eBay policy has made me wonder about the legality of it.
>
> Here goes:
>
> All items listed for sale on eBay.co.uk have to offer PayPal as an
> accepted payment method.
>
> They have a policy that states that sellers must not selectively offer
> paypal as a payment method to buyers or discourage buyers from using
> paypal.
>
> If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other
> than as required by paypal, your transaction will not qualify for
> paypal's Seller Protection Programme.
>
>
> So now a scammer can buy an item listed as collection only, pay for it
> by paypal, and then start an Item Not Received claim with paypal.
>
> Paypal will ask the seller to provide them with on-line traceable
> proof that they delivered the item by an accepted method. THE SELLER
> WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO THIS AND PAYPAL WILL REFUND THE BUYER.
>
If you are not trolling, and you seriously believe that its a scammer, then
just play them at there own game, the only sellers to be affected by this
rule are the ones who are thick as pigshit or just too honest to be trading
on ebay and will get fleeced and have no business left, any seller with a
hint of business acumen would be able to get round this minor issue with
realitive ease.
Troll is my opinion of you personally
R. Mark Clayton
> change in eBay policy has made me wonder about the legality of it.
>
> Here goes:
>
> All items listed for sale on eBay.co.uk have to offer PayPal as an
> accepted payment method.
Ebaty was already bad, but PayPal, well I wouldn't touch it with a barge
pole.
>
> They have a policy that states that sellers must not selectively offer
> paypal as a payment method to buyers or discourage buyers from using
> paypal.
Obviously Ebay and PayPal are related.
>
> If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other
> than as required by paypal, your transaction will not qualify for
> paypal's Seller Protection Programme.
Cost of delivery is another big PITA with Ebay.
SNIP
Ebay are the market leaders at the moment, but something more reliable (e.g.
with identified buyers and seller must surely appear soon?
>
Thanks
Ray
Does anyone know of any laws that prohibit eBay and paypal introducing a
Tim Buck Too
"Ray" <dogcall...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:awZ2k.71851$%B6.2...@newsfe13.ams2...
> You appear to have missed my question.
>
>
> Does anyone know of any laws that prohibit eBay and paypal introducing a
> rule that so openly invites fraudulent behaviour?
>
Paypal and ebay are not based in the UK so any law is pointless, they are
not accountable to any Civil claim either
It is a much talked about subject and I was pointed to this the other day
but I have not read it yet, some claims are that it is not legal
http://www.ukauctionHelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
Joe Lee
> change in eBay policy has made me wonder about the legality of it.
>
> Here goes:
>
> All items listed for sale on eBay.co.uk have to offer PayPal as an
> accepted payment method.
>
> They have a policy that states that sellers must not selectively offer
> paypal as a payment method to buyers or discourage buyers from using
> paypal.
>
> If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other
> than as required by paypal, your transaction will not qualify for
> paypal's Seller Protection Programme.
So what's new,hasn't that *always* been the case ?
> So now a scammer can buy an item listed as collection only, pay for it
> by paypal, and then start an Item Not Received claim with paypal.
Obviously a seller should not list an item "for collection only".
> Paypal will ask the seller to provide them with on-line traceable
> proof that they delivered the item by an accepted method. THE SELLER
> WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO THIS AND PAYPAL WILL REFUND THE BUYER.
No kidding ? As above - hasn't that always been the case with Paypal ?
> I know I am clutching at straws here, but does anyone know of any laws
> that prohibit eBay and paypal introducing a rule that so openly
> invites fraudulent behaviour?
The rule doesn't. All it effectively does is to make it imperative to use a
trackable means of delivery, so no personal collection or felivery can be
provided if PP protection (such as it is), is required.
> Thanks
--
Joe Lee
Fotonix
systems. Like many, I've used these two 'providers' for some time,
but it is only when you start to use them on a regular and serious
basis that you understand how dominant their position is,and how they
abuse that position. For 'obeying' their policies, you get no proper
resolution of what sometimes are very serious failures of buyers and
the systems themselves. But always a nice, patronising email back a
few days later, telling you to 'refer to this URL'.
Was this reply helpful?
You don't need these sites, just walk away from them...
J.
Klunk
has always been a pretty poor customer experience. You get some very good
sellers, but by and large the whole thing stinks.
The current round of changes to enforce sellers to accept paypal is an
issue. It does open sellers up to open abuse. If you want to sell
something large for collection only you should not be forced to accept
paypal. I note that Paypal are also 'holding' funds now for bigger
transactions until the buyer leaves positive feedback.
What you can do is offer to accept Paypal as required, but state 'Cash on
collection - Paypal will only be accepted for items sent via a trackable
mail service'. As far as I can tell you have then complied and offered
the facility.
There are alternatives, but by no means as big:
The main rival QXL was wiped out in May.
Tim Buck Too
"Klunk" <bill....@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:484cc8b7$0$2484$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> Having used eBay for many years I've got to jump on this bandwagon. It
> has always been a pretty poor customer experience. You get some very good
> sellers, but by and large the whole thing stinks.
>
> The current round of changes to enforce sellers to accept paypal is an
> issue. It does open sellers up to open abuse. If you want to sell
> something large for collection only you should not be forced to accept
> paypal. I note that Paypal are also 'holding' funds now for bigger
> transactions until the buyer leaves positive feedback.
>
> What you can do is offer to accept Paypal as required, but state 'Cash on
> collection - Paypal will only be accepted for items sent via a trackable
> mail service'. As far as I can tell you have then complied and offered
> the facility.
You are not alowed to do this under the new rules, so just dont offer
collection , if someoen asks about it, thell them you will phone them, then
offer tha cash only, that way its not traceale through the message system
MM
wrote:
>any seller with a
>hint of business acumen would be able to get round this minor issue with
>realitive ease.
How?
MM
MM
For secondhand books I'd choose Amazon Marketplace.
MM
Fotonix
continually stack the odds in favour of themselves, essentially using
a 'don't like it? Then leave'. So do just that. These online
systems cost a lot of money and effort that's better directed towards
your own stand-alone e-commerce site.
J.
Niel J Humphreys
This might be relevant here
http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
--
Niel H
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers
http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/
Klunk
by writing:
> <ssoo...@live.com> wrote in message
> news:d72b24f3-bb58-4039-
bb39-968...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>I don't know if there are many eBay users out there, but a recent
>> change in eBay policy has made me wonder about the legality of it.
>>
>> Here goes:
>>
>> All items listed for sale on eBay.co.uk have to offer PayPal as an
>> accepted payment method.
>>
>> They have a policy that states that sellers must not selectively offer
>> paypal as a payment method to buyers or discourage buyers from using
>> paypal.
>>
>> If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other
>> than as required by paypal, your transaction will not qualify for
>> paypal's Seller Protection Programme.
>>
>>
>> So now a scammer can buy an item listed as collection only, pay for it
>> by paypal, and then start an Item Not Received claim with paypal.
>>
>> Paypal will ask the seller to provide them with on-line traceable proof
>> that they delivered the item by an accepted method. THE SELLER WILL
>> NOT BE ABLE TO DO THIS AND PAYPAL WILL REFUND THE BUYER.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know I am clutching at straws here, but does anyone know of any laws
>> that prohibit eBay and paypal introducing a rule that so openly invites
>> fraudulent behaviour?
>
>
>
> This might be relevant here
>
> http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
In fairness, the cost of using eBay and Paypal is high, and the whole
customer experience is generally poor. There are dodgy buyers and
sellers, plenty of both in fact from my own experience.
I recall a guy who sold me a simple keyfob. It failed to show up so I
filed for a refund after trying to work it out (or in other words having
to beg for what I had paid for). This was going through when I got a
knock at the door from the postie. He had a recorded delivery envelope
for me. I opened it up after signing for it, and it had a 'with
compliments' slip with 'you won't get your keyfob or money' written on
it. The seller was able to prove that I had signed for it, so the
protection scheme decided the seller was in the right. It lots of little
bits of agro like this that has me avoid it now, unless it is the last
choice.
There are other auction sites, Amazon is great for books and Gemm is
great for music. eBay is just like a giant sized jumble sale offering a
mix between 'recalled by trading standards', 'stolen', and 'outer
Mongolian junk'. The dream was great, the reality something different.
Fotonix
progressive place, compared to our traditional (i.e. like most other
traditional things - wrong) view of it.
Yes, folks, the message is clear. Do you really need to sell
something worth only a few quid? And if you really must have it, why
not buy it from a shop with a reputation and the DSR to adhere to?
Once upon a time, there was no Ebay. You were no worse off, believe
me!
J.
Peter Crosland
This seems to be relevant
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/530162/oft931int.pdf
Peter Crosland
Essex Laptops - Andy Usher
"Fotonix" <bryn....@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:da8a731c-d816-4a68...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I think Mongolia would be mortally insulted - actually a very
> progressive place, compared to our traditional (i.e. like most other
> traditional things - wrong) view of it.
>
> Yes, folks, the message is clear. Do you really need to sell
> something worth only a few quid? And if you really must have it, why
> not buy it from a shop with a reputation and the DSR to adhere to?
What a load of bollocks, Loads of online shops dont take any notice of the
DSR, nor do they answer customer service very well, at least iwth ebay and
paypal you have some kind of backup, if its no good the service feel free to
neg them, they wont be on ebay for long offering shoddy service
> Once upon a time, there was no Ebay. You were no worse off, believe
> me!
I am significantly better off from ebay being there
Klunk
writing:
>>I don't know if there are many eBay users out there, but a recent
Looks like Peter 'Killfile' Crosland has missed the bit about eBay not
being subject to UK laws. When will he learn to RTFP . . .
Klunk
empty day by writing:
> "Fotonix" <bryn....@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:da8a731c-d816-4a68-
aa0c-874...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I'm glad it works for you. You do seem reasonably reputable:
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=essex-
laptops&&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&sspagename=VIP:feedback:2:uk&iid=280218394285
Now that you can only leave positive or no feedback as a seller make sure
your standards don't drop ;-)
Fotonix
again, I'm beginning to get that sinking feeling that several posters
are very similar to e-bay members in their (un)considered responses.
I'm pretty sure the expletive you use at the start of your message is
also against overall policy. But I'm _obviously_ wrong on that, too.
See how I tremble...