selfbuild- electrics - part p
Gilbert
with a few double sockets and overhead lighting to be run off the existing
house. How much can I do myself? Do I really need someone to certify the
work, or can I get my work certified by the BCO? I always did my own
electrics in the past, but this Part P malarkey (Grrr) seems a bit
over-protective.
TIA
Gilbert
The Natural Philosopher
your own work off.
Roger Mills
Gilbert <spam...@gaza.con> wrote:
AIUI, if you are paying a Building Control fee for inspections/signoff of
the building itself (which I assume you are) then the fee also covers
inspection/testing of the electrics. If the Building Control dept isn't
competent to do this, it's up to *them* to subcontract the electrical
inspection to someone who is - at *their* expense - although they may try to
con you into paying for it, so beware!
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Owain
> After a twenty year break I am building a single storey bedroom extension
> with a few double sockets and overhead lighting to be run off the existing
> house. How much can I do myself? Do I really need someone to certify the
> work, or can I get my work certified by the BCO?
You can do it all yourself and the BCO is responsible for Part P
certification if you include it in your building control application for
the extension.
Owain
dennis@home
"Owain" <owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote in message
news:118035323...@demeter.uk.clara.net...
Are you sure?
I was talking to the head of building control for a large council last night
and he said he could set whatever fees he wanted for test and inspection as
long as they were published.
He said anyone that wanted "his" council to inspect their wiring was
chucking their money away as he had set it high to avoid employing anyone to
do the tests. Those that do want it just get a subcontractor sent out with
the bill.
John Rumm
> He said anyone that wanted "his" council to inspect their wiring was
> chucking their money away as he had set it high to avoid employing anyone to
> do the tests. Those that do want it just get a subcontractor sent out with
> the bill.
I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf
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Cheers,
John.
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Nick
So anyone got a feel for what the going rate might be to have an
installation checked of say one new small ring main ( 3 sockets total)
and a garage install with RCCD, two sockets and local earth spike - assuming
no extra work needed ?
Thanks,
Nick
John Rumm
Who by?
The point about part P is that you can't have your work checked and
"signed off" by someone else prior to it being certificated by building
control. You can either sign it off yourself if you are a member of an
appropriate guild/trade association, of building control can sign it
off. Those are the only options (other than ignoring the whole pile of
nonsense).
They (building control) can if they choose, elect to have it tested.
They may (depending on their resources) test it themselves, they may
decide that you are technically competent (i.e. the real meaning of the
word) and leave it all to you, or possibly they may ask for your test
results.
Martin Pentreath
> dennis@home wrote:
> > He said anyone that wanted "his" council to inspect their wiring was
> > chucking their money away as he had set it high to avoid employing anyone to
> > do the tests. Those that do want it just get a subcontractor sent out with
> > the bill.
>
> I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 ofhttp://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf
Interesting, thanks for the link John.
Para 1.26 says that the building control department must carry out the
electrical inspection at their own expense. However, what's to stop
them doing it at their expense, but just setting the fee for
applications involving Part P work high enough to cover it?
Hugo Nebula
<spam...@gaza.con> randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
>After a twenty year break I am building a single storey bedroom extension
>with a few double sockets and overhead lighting to be run off the existing
>house. How much can I do myself? Do I really need someone to certify the
>work, or can I get my work certified by the BCO?
Will there be a separate circuit? If so, provided the protection to
the modified circuits are satisfactory, then it does not need to be
notified.
If not, it would be part of the extension, and depending on the Local
Authority's policy, they could certify that it complies (but not issue
an electrical safety certificate), or ask for an electrical
installation certificate from a competent electrician.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"
Cicero
===================================
Maybe somebody should ask him to publish his authority for charging since
it's expressly forbidden. In any case I would think that local councillors
would have to approve any changes to the setting of charges.
Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================
Gilbert
"Hugo Nebula" <abuse@localhost> wrote in message
news:sltl53p9kgpahm4l8...@4ax.com...
> Will there be a separate circuit?
No, simply additional sockets to the existing ring main (which is more than
adequate)
> If not, it would be part of the extension, and depending on the Local
> Authority's policy, they could certify that it complies (but not issue
> an electrical safety certificate), or ask for an electrical
> installation certificate from a competent electrician.
Thanks for that. I'll obviously have to chat up the BCO and get all the
necessary info for Mid-Suffolk. The BCO seems like a nice man (:O) and has
been very helpful with all the new regs. (Cavity wallboards? What be them, I
asked...)
Meanwhile, thanks to all those who replied.
Gilbert
John Rumm
Well they could, although there may be some control on what fees they
are aloud to charge (usually they are based on the value of the work
being done). Also if they charge noticeably more then they are still
open to accusations that they are charging for inspections by the back
door. The difficult thing is there is no real conformity here - each
council seems to have their own policy.
Andy Hall
> Martin Pentreath wrote:
>> On 28 May, 14:45, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>> He said anyone that wanted "his" council to inspect their wiring was
>>>> chucking their money away as he had set it high to avoid employing anyone to
>>>> do the tests. Those that do want it just get a subcontractor sent out with
>>>> the bill.
>>> I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26
>>> ofhttp://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf
>>
>> Interesting, thanks for the link John.
>>
>> Para 1.26 says that the building control department must carry out the
>> electrical inspection at their own expense. However, what's to stop
>> them doing it at their expense, but just setting the fee for
>> applications involving Part P work high enough to cover it?
>
> Well they could, although there may be some control on what fees they
> are aloud to charge (usually they are based on the value of the work
> being done). Also if they charge noticeably more then they are still
> open to accusations that they are charging for inspections by the back
> door. The difficult thing is there is no real conformity here - each
> council seems to have their own policy.
This is called "never-give-a sucker-an-even-break" syndrome. 90%+ of
applicants will pay up without a whimper.
For the other crusaders, it's a case of out-jobsworthing the
jobsworths. Hmm..... I think I might just make an application so
that I can have the pleasure of doing that.
Andy Hall
They probably did, along with rubberstamping of how many changes of
blade on the gangmower for the local park.
It's boring being a councillor. I know several. Being mayor isn't
much better other than at least someone (usually) organises a parking
space at summer fetes.
Andy Hall
Ask him if he has four toes. Apparently this is common in Norfolk and
parts of Suffolk.
Peter Crosland
He is telling porkies! Refer him to the following
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf
that makes it clear that if you do your paperwork correctly they have to do
it at their expense.
Peter Crosland
Owain
>> Thanks for that. I'll obviously have to chat up the BCO and get all the
>> necessary info for Mid-Suffolk.
> parts of Suffolk.
Why, are they particularly ingeniously careless with their woodworking
machinery?
Owain
Cod Roe
> Martin Pentreath wrote:
>> Para 1.26 says that the building control department must carry out the
>> electrical inspection at their own expense. However, what's to stop
>> them doing it at their expense, but just setting the fee for
>> applications involving Part P work high enough to cover it?
>
> Well they could, although there may be some control on what fees they
> are aloud to charge (usually they are based on the value of the work
> being done). Also if they charge noticeably more then they are still
> open to accusations that they are charging for inspections by the back
> door. The difficult thing is there is no real conformity here - each
> council seems to have their own policy.
This is what Cherwell seem to be doing, have a look at page 3 of:
http://www.cherwell-dc.gov.uk/files/publicationscheme/4582-793.pdf
For which electrical work charges are 70GBP for an installation checked
by an electrician, and 300GBP if checked by the local authority, but in
both cases the "inspection charge" is nothing!
Roger Mills
Interesting!
It's not clear whether the charges for electrical installations only apply
when that is *all* that is done.
For example, what if I build a non-exempt garage which includes an
electrical installation? The Building Regs fee for the garage would be
£110+VAT - and I would argue strongly that that should *include* having the
local authority inspect and certify the electrical work. Otherwise they
would seem to be in contravention of the regulation cited by others. After
all, the fee is presumably for making sure that the work complies with *all*
building regs - and should not exclude Part P.
If this is the case, the moral seems to be to make sure that any electrical
work you do is part of a building project of some sort - however trivial!
Peter Ashby
Nah, one of them went on holiday to Japan and got unintentionally
friendly with the Yakuza, thought an equivalent would be useful back
home but thought the four finger job a bit ostentatious...
Peter
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Hugo Nebula
Crosland" <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
>dennis@home wrote:
>> I was talking to the head of building control for a large council
>> last night and he said he could set whatever fees he wanted for test
>> and inspection as long as they were published.
>He is telling porkies! Refer him to the following
>
>http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf
>
>that makes it clear that if you do your paperwork correctly they have to do
>it at their expense.
Local Authorities are well aware of the Approved Documents. However:
a) They aren't law.
b) BCOs (mostly) have no more idea of electrical installations than
the average person; some more, some less. To employ someone directly
or indirectly would cost money; to train the staff up even more.
c) A Local Authority doesn't have to carry out the judgment of the
Ombudsman, so any appeal wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
Similarly, an appeal for a determination to the Secretary of State
isn't possible due to the way the legislation's worded.
In my Authority, it's been decided at manager level that we ain't
testing, the punter has to get it tested, and no amount of waving
Approved Documents in the faces of the guys on site is going to change
that. Tough titty, hard cheese, you ain't getting your Completion
Certificate until we have that bit of paper from you!
Andrew Gabriel
So the pragmatic advice would seem to be to take as much notice
of the approved documents as your local authority does.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Hugo Nebula
and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:
>> In my Authority, it's been decided at manager level that we ain't
>> testing, the punter has to get it tested, and no amount of waving
>> Approved Documents in the faces of the guys on site is going to change
>> that. Tough titty, hard cheese, you ain't getting your Completion
>> Certificate until we have that bit of paper from you!
>
>So the pragmatic advice would seem to be to take as much notice
>of the approved documents as your local authority does.
You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
John Rumm
> In my Authority, it's been decided at manager level that we ain't
> testing, the punter has to get it tested, and no amount of waving
> Approved Documents in the faces of the guys on site is going to change
And what of the explicit instructions from the orifice of the deputy
prime minister stating councils can't charge for the work, or require
for the home owner to pay?
> that. Tough titty, hard cheese, you ain't getting your Completion
> Certificate until we have that bit of paper from you!
Do you accept test results from the DIYer though?
If not, print your own[1] and stuff em!
[1] inspection report, or completion certificate as required!
Cicero
==================================
All the more reason to pursue the matter fully. Councillors have a duty of
care to their constituents and when they fail in their duties they should
be named and shamed. And if they've been deceived by an employee in such a
disgraceful fashion they should ensure that that employee, no matter how
highly placed, is sacked.