Edward Said has assumed room temperature!
Creedmoor Chronicles
soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
IS
Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)
"Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> writes:
> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
Barukh Hashem!!
May the new year bring an end quickly to others of his ilk!!
-Shlomo-
R
>
> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
He may have assumed room temperature for the prsent. Be assured
that he will soon assume a temperature MUCH hotter than that. But
it won't be all that bad. He may soon have his good freinds
Yasser, Dooovid'l, and Moshe Hirsh to keep him company in that
great shvitz-bath of the netherworld.
Ben Dreyfus
>Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
>soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
--
Benjamin W Dreyfus dre...@post.harvard.edu
p_al...@hotmail.com
> Creedmoor Chronicles wrote:
> >
> > Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> > soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
Is Said's death going to make Israel one bit safer? Even if the big
boss died, someone would replace him.
> He may have assumed room temperature for the prsent. Be assured
> that he will soon assume a temperature MUCH hotter than that. But
> it won't be all that bad. He may soon have his good freinds
> Yasser, Dooovid'l, and Moshe Hirsh to keep him company in that
> great shvitz-bath of the netherworld.
I couldn't care less what happens to them after their death unless one
of them comes back to warn the survivors about what will happen if
they continue.
Anything which keeps buses from blowing up is good news. Deaths of
the replacable, or their unobservable punishment in the afterlife have
no effect on that.
Creedmoor Chronicles
"Ben Dreyfus" <dre...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:bl0dpp$ll2$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
> And 'mid this tumult Creedmoor Chronicles heard from far:
> >Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> >soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>
> Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
Gey kocken afn yam!
IS
YZK
Ben Dreyfus wrote:
> And 'mid this tumult Creedmoor Chronicles heard from far:
>
>>Beavud Reshaim Rina!
>
> Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chano
"Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bl0gfh$v2d$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
Ah, right Ian, you mean "V'Tashlich Bim'tzulot Yam Kol Chatotam"? Very
apposite for the time of year!
Chano
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> And 'mid this tumult Creedmoor Chronicles heard from far:
>>Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
>>soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>
> Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
Ben, the above verse is only about a Jew who wants to repent, not
an arch-enemy of Israel. The proper verse for these filth is:
"ken yovdu kol oyvecha yisrael" which, I believe, is a verse
from Judges.
Josh
Creedmoor Chronicles
"Chano" <ch...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bl1oep$s8k$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
More like "kol chotim." IS
Ron Aaron
<serj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > Gey kocken afn yam!
>> >
>> Ah, right Ian, you mean "V'Tashlich Bim'tzulot Yam Kol Chatotam"?
>
> More like "kol chotim." IS
I thought you thought the verse was "hayom CHARAT haolam" :)
Chano
"Ron Aaron" <ronaaron@mike_row_soft.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbn8qdb....@ronware.gotdns.com...
LOL, kewl Ron
Chano
R
>
> In article <bl0dpp$ll2$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>, Ben Dreyfus <dre...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
> > And 'mid this tumult Creedmoor Chronicles heard from far:
> >>Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> >>soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> >
> > Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
>
> Ben, the above verse is only about a Jew who wants to repent, not
> an arch-enemy of Israel. The proper verse for these filth is:
> "ken yovdu kol oyvecha yisrael" which, I believe, is a verse
> from Judges.
Actually, it says "kein you'vdu kol oivecha HASHEM." Whis is the
same thing, since enemise of the Jewish people are G-d's enemies.
Creedmoor Chronicles
news:bl1pre$t43$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
> In article <bl0dpp$ll2$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>, Ben Dreyfus
<dre...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
> > And 'mid this tumult Creedmoor Chronicles heard from far:
> >>Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> >>soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> >
> > Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
>
>
> Ben, the above verse is only about a Jew who wants to repent, not
> an arch-enemy of Israel. The proper verse for these filth is:
> "ken yovdu kol oyvecha yisrael" which, I believe, is a verse
> from Judges.
Beavud Reshaim Rina suits Said just fine - fewer words and easier to put to
music. You could also sing the old Chabad nigun (from Tehillim) "Vekol
Karnei Reshoim Agadeah."
IS
Lisa
> >Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> >soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>
> Hachafotz echpotz mot rasha' ... halo b'shuvo miderachav v'chayah?
Sure. Except that he didn't. And now it's too late. So shem reshaim yerakev.
Lisa
Lee Ratner
> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>
> IS
Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
should not be celebrating his death.
Henry Goodman
"Lee Ratner" <czar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:59117524.03092...@posting.google.com...
Why not?
I look forward to greater celebrations when Arafat's illnesses catch up with
him.
--
Henry Goodman
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd
In Creedmoor, s'iz "Hayoim haras Oinan."
IS
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bkvdk8$30dn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru>...
>
>> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
>> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>
> intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> should not be celebrating his death.
Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
should we be ungrateful?
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
Gmar CHasima Tova
Joel Shurkin
wrote:
> czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
> > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<bkvdk8$30dn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru>...
> >
> >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as this
> >> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> >
> > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
> > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> > should not be celebrating his death.
>
> Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
> should we be ungrateful?
Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we are
to ours. We don¹t have to agree with him, we don¹t even have to like
him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
is unseemly.
J
>
> Moshe Schorr
> It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
> May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
> Gmar CHasima Tova
--
"I have nothing in the world but the hour in which I am. It pauses for a
moment, and then, like a cloud, moves on.²
Samuel a¹Nagid 10th century Spain
Joel Shurkin
Baltimore
Andy Katz
wrote:
>Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we are
>to ours. We donšt have to agree with him, we donšt even have to like
>him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
>is unseemly.
Indeed.
Particularly as I understand Arafat has banned Said's books from the
territories because they advocate political over military solutions to
the problems in the region.
Andy Katz
____________________________________________
"There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
Charlotte York, "Sex & The City"
The Simpsons
a...@earthlink.net
Andre...@aol.com
Bastard Nation
http://www.bastards.org
Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)
Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
> In article <2003Sep3...@mm.huji.ac.il>, <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
> > czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
> > > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:<bkvdk8$30dn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru>...
> > >
> > >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as =
> this
> > >> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> > >=20
> > > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
> > > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> > > should not be celebrating his death.
> >=20
> > Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
> > should we be ungrateful?
>
> Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we are
> to ours. We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
> him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
> is unseemly.
If he had been truly and *morally* loyal to his people, then he would
not have encouraged them to become and remain murderers nor made
homicide bombing and other heinous acts of terrorist "intellectually
respectable" among the liberal left. My only regret regarding his
death is that it came 30 years too late.
-Shlomo-
I Schier
message news:tigad8m...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il...
>
> Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
>
> > In article <2003Sep3...@mm.huji.ac.il>, <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
> > > > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:<bkvdk8$30dn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru>...
> > > >
> > > >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as
=
> > this
> > > >> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> > > >=20
> > > > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
> > > > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> > > > should not be celebrating his death.
> > >=20
> > > Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
> > > should we be ungrateful?
> >
> > Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we are
> > to ours. We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
> > him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
> > is unseemly.
According to the above moral relativist, we ought to respect Shitler YMACH
SHMO for his loyalty to the German people, especially as he gave them a
sense of self-worth after WW1. Creedmoor Ze Kan!
>
> If he had been truly and *morally* loyal to his people, then he would
> not have encouraged them to become and remain murderers nor made
> homicide bombing and other heinous acts of terrorist "intellectually
> respectable" among the liberal left. My only regret regarding his
> death is that it came 30 years too late.
Why 30? It is too bad Mrs Said did not have a miscarriage on her trip from
her home in Cairo to Yerushalayim where the egg that was fertilized through
biah shelo kedarka hatched. By the way, this Said YMS was a man who was
known around my alma mater, Columbia, for his disregard for his neighbors,
whom he kept awake by playing Chopin at all hours. And who taught him to
play? A Jewish piano teacher in Cairo - a web search will give you this
info.
IS
Creedmoor Chronicles
"Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)" <arg...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il> wrote in
message news:tigad8m...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il...
>
>
> > In article <2003Sep3...@mm.huji.ac.il>, <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
> > > > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:<bkvdk8$30dn$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru>...
> > > >
> > > >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as
=
> > this
> > > >> soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> > > >=20
> > > > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
> > > > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> > > > should not be celebrating his death.
> > >=20
> > > Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
> > > should we be ungrateful?
> >
> > Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we are
> > to ours. We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
> > him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
> > is unseemly.
According to the above moral relativist, we ought to respect Shitler YMACH
SHMO for his loyalty to the German people, especially as he gave them a
sense of self-worth after WW1. Creedmoor Ze Kan!
>
> If he had been truly and *morally* loyal to his people, then he would
> not have encouraged them to become and remain murderers nor made
> homicide bombing and other heinous acts of terrorist "intellectually
> respectable" among the liberal left. My only regret regarding his
> death is that it came 30 years too late.
Why 30? It is too bad Mrs Said did not have a miscarriage on her trip from
her home in Cairo to Yerushalayim where the egg that was fertilized through
biah shelo kedarka hatched. By the way, this Said YMS was a man who was
known around my alma mater, Columbia, for his disregard for his neighbors,
whom he kept awake by playing Chopin at all hours. And who taught him to
play? A Jewish piano teacher in Cairo - a web search will give you this
info.
Sadly, I did not ever see him around campus, so that I was never zoiche to
recite Kel Nekamos or Vekol Karnei Reshoim in his presence.
IS
>
> -Shlomo-
>
Andy Katz
arg...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il (Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)) wrote:
>If he had been truly and *morally* loyal to his people, then he would
>not have encouraged them to become and remain murderers nor made
>homicide bombing and other heinous acts of terrorist "intellectually
Isn't that why Arafat banned his books in the territories, because
they denounced violence, calling for political solutions instead?
Andy Katz
<serj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>According to the above moral relativist, we ought to respect Shitler YMACH
>SHMO for his loyalty to the German people, especially as he gave them a
>sense of self-worth after WW1. Creedmoor Ze Kan!
And according to the above hysteric I'm a Shitler and so is Joel
because we express a pov unappealing to his delicate sensibilities.
A bissen proportion, please.
When you can show how Said was responsible for the deaths of 40+
million people, then your absurd analogy will hold.
Otherwise it might be useful to consider your apology to Joel offered
and accepted.
Fiona
"Joel Shurkin" <jo...@nasw.org> wrote
> Edward Said was a Palestinian
Not. Edward Said was an Egyptian, pretending to be a Palestinian for his own
benefit.
Fiona
Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)
"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
Like Arafat. And BTW, even if Arafat banned Said's books in his
fiefdom, this proves nothing other than that Arafat didn't like him
or them. The PLO and affiliated organizations still got tremendous
"intellectual" imprimatur by Said's writings and campaigning on behalf
of the "Palestinian national cause". If you want to prove that Said
was "not so bad" or whatever, how about some relevant citations from
his actual writings?
-Shlomo-
Joel Shurkin
<amk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:44:13 +0000 (UTC), "I Schier"
> <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >According to the above moral relativist, we ought to respect Shitler YMACH
> >SHMO for his loyalty to the German people, especially as he gave them a
> >sense of self-worth after WW1. Creedmoor Ze Kan!
>
> And according to the above hysteric I'm a Shitler and so is Joel
> because we express a pov unappealing to his delicate sensibilities.
>
> A bissen proportion, please.
>
> When you can show how Said was responsible for the deaths of 40+
> million people, then your absurd analogy will hold.
>
> Otherwise it might be useful to consider your apology to Joel offered
> and accepted.
>
> Andy Katz
I believe that¹s called Godwin¹s law.
J
>
> ____________________________________________
> "There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
>
> Charlotte York, "Sex & The City"
>
> The Simpsons
>
> a...@earthlink.net
> Andre...@aol.com
>
> Bastard Nation
> http://www.bastards.org
--
Lee Ratner
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:27:25 +0000 (UTC), Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we are
> >to ours. We donšt have to agree with him, we donšt even have to like
> >him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
> >is unseemly.
>
> Indeed.
>
> Particularly as I understand Arafat has banned Said's books from the
> territories because they advocate political over military solutions to
> the problems in the region.
>
Arab leaders corrupt. Said was no moderate though and believed in the
complete destruction of Israel.
Y. Macales
On Shai Ben-Tekoa's web site:
www.deprogramprogram.com
he has an article about Said. Shai was a student of his at Columbia U
in the mid 1960's. He says that Said then presented himself as a
"Lebanese-Egyptian". I guess he went with whatever was in fashion at
the time!
Susan Cohen
"Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)" <arg...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il> wrote in
message news:tigad8m...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il...
>
> Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
>
Because he said so?
Fine - I'm a Venusian.
and was as loyal to his people as we are
> > to ours. We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
> > him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at his death
> > is unseemly.
>
> If he had been truly and *morally* loyal to his people, then he would
> not have encouraged them to become and remain murderers nor made
> homicide bombing and other heinous acts of terrorist "intellectually
> respectable" among the liberal left. My only regret regarding his
> death is that it came 30 years too late.
People who blatantly lie deserve no respect.
Susan
I Schier
my home machine, for non-Creedmoor posts, but I'm still getting used to it
and I forget which is which, leading me to resubmit posts, not realizing I
had already sent it in under another account. Looks like I'm getting ready
for Creedmoor myself; in any case I will be attending and reporting on the
Yom Kippur Yom Ki-Purim kiddush there; see my Creedmoor list for details!
IS
Andy Katz
Ratner) wrote:
>amk...@earthlink.net (Andy Katz) wrote in message news:<oudjnv4fdu4bo3gse...@4ax.com>...
>> Particularly as I understand Arafat has banned Said's books from the
>> territories because they advocate political over military solutions to
>> the problems in the region.
>>
> Arafat banned Said's books because he called Arafat and most other
>Arab leaders corrupt. Said was no moderate though and believed in the
>complete destruction of Israel.
Hmmm ... he also shared in common with many scjm readers a loathing
for Oslo:
http://www.counterpunch.org/saidoslo2.html
One paragraph in particular:
"The way I see it, the only negotiations worth having should be on the
phases of a total Israeli withdrawal and not, as was the case with
Oslo, bargaining over what pieces of land Israel was willing very
grudgingly to give up. There's been too much Palestinian blood
spilled, too much Israeli contempt and racist violence dispensed for
any serious return to Oslo-style negotiations brokered by that most
biased of honest brokers, the United States. Everyone is aware,
however, that the old Palestinian negotiators haven't given up on
their dreams and illusions, and that meetings have been occurring
throughout the raids and bombings. "
Suggests his views toward how negotiations should be undertaken and
what elements they ought to comprise. But Said makes ample reference
to the Israeli government and seems to take it as a given that it will
continue to exist under any and all circumstances.
Clearly Said was no fan of Israel, the Jewish people, Israeli policies
in the territories nor of the US support for any of these things. He
probably would have been just as happy to see Israel disappear.
Is that supposed to be a surprise? Does that seem inappropriate for
one of Said's background and sympathies (and I'm not at all interested
in debating whether or not he was really Egyptian; there are those who
keep insisting there's no such thing as Palestinians or that
Palestinians are really Jews ... yawn already)?
In politics one ought to be defined more by what he does than who he
is, and Said's outlines for future negotiations between Israel and a
Palestinian authority suggest that he foresaw a future with Israel,
not without it.
How many readers on this ng alone would enjoy nothing more than waking
up one am and seeing the Palestinians just vanish?
Does that make *them* "Shitlers"?
Yisroel Markov
In lieu of that, here are some excerpts from Ibn Warraq's article in
the 9/29/03 Wall Street Journal.
(Ibn Warraq is a pseudonym used to protect himself and his family from
Islamists. He's the author of "Why I am Not a Muslim" and the editor
of "Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out.")
-----------------------------
...Mr. Said, who died last week, will go down in history for having
practically invented the intellectual argument for Muslim rage.
"Orientalism," his bestselling manifesto, introduced the Arab world to
victimology. [...] Islamic fundamentalism, too, calls the West a Satam
that oppresses Islam by its very existence. "Orientalism" lifted that
concept, and made it over into Western radical chic, giving vicious
anti-Americanism a high literary gloss.
[...] He and his followers also had the effect of cowing many liberal
academics in the West into a politically correct silence two decades
prior to 9/11. Mr. Said's rock-star status among the left-wing
literary elite put writers on the Middle East and Islam in constant
jeopardy of being labeled "Orientalist" oppressors - a potent form of
intellectual censorship.
"Orientalism" was a polemic that masqueraded as scholarship. Its
historical analysis was gradually debunked by scholars. It became
clear that Mr. Said, a literary critic, used poetic license, not
empirical inquiry. Nevertheless he would state his conclusions as
facts, and they were taken as such by his admirers.
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Harry Weiss
> In article <56ljnv4g1mcmf9q85...@4ax.com>, Andy Katz
> <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:44:13 +0000 (UTC), "I Schier"
> > <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >According to the above moral relativist, we ought to respect Shitler YMACH
> > >SHMO for his loyalty to the German people, especially as he gave them a
> > >sense of self-worth after WW1. Creedmoor Ze Kan!
> >
> > And according to the above hysteric I'm a Shitler and so is Joel
> > because we express a pov unappealing to his delicate sensibilities.
> >
> > A bissen proportion, please.
> >
> > When you can show how Said was responsible for the deaths of 40+
> > million people, then your absurd analogy will hold.
> >
> > Otherwise it might be useful to consider your apology to Joel offered
> > and accepted.
> >
> > Andy Katz
> I believe that?s called Godwin?s law.
> J
Not really. if so Godwins law has absolutely no meaning.
There are some people who are like Shitler and it is appropriate to say it. Shitler
wanted the destruction of the Jewish people as did Said, may gehennom be extra hot
for him. The difference is Shitler had the ablity to partially carry it out, Said
could only influence people to kill a number of Jews here and there.
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> > "There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
> >
> > Charlotte York, "Sex & The City"
> >
> > The Simpsons
> >
> > a...@earthlink.net
> > Andre...@aol.com
> >
> > Bastard Nation
> > http://www.bastards.org
> --
> "I have nothing in the world but the hour in which I am. It pauses for a
> moment, and then, like a cloud, moves on.?
> Samuel a?Nagid 10th century Spain
> ?
> Joel Shurkin
> Baltimore
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Chano
"Y. Macales" <yaakov_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f116d919.03093...@posting.google.com...
Said was not even a Moslem, he was a baptized Christian, so why he was an
appologist for Islam is anyone's guess. His accusations against Western
thinking of "Orientalism" (the philosophy that The West considers Orientals
to be inferior preditors), were based on his own hang-ups of "Jewism" where
he percieved Jews to be the same thing. In other words Said was one crazy
mixed up kid, and a dangerous one at that.
Chano
I Schier
> > <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > "There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
This is disgusting and offensive. It is very similar to language used by Al
Sharpton tzorer hayehudim ymach shmo. I wish that my killfile would erase
everything you write, rather than blocking messages, so that I don't have to
see this, or the moral relativist, self-hating claptrap that it accompanies.
"Avinu malkeinu, shlach refuah mehera lecholei amecha."
IS
p_al...@hotmail.com
> There are some people who are like Shitler and it is appropriate to say it. Shitler
> wanted the destruction of the Jewish people as did Said, may gehennom be extra hot
> for him. The difference is Shitler had the ablity to partially carry it out, Said
> could only influence people to kill a number of Jews here and there.
I would like the moderators to consider whether to allow compound
words (or names), some elements of which would by themselves be
rejected. I'm by no means defending the honor of Hitler, and wouldn't
raise this point if people came up with a nickname for him which they
could say in front of their children.
Now I'll get back to my original point in this thread - what good does
it do any of us that our enemies wind up in gehennom, lukewarm or hot?
If our enemies believed in gehennom (well maybe those who follow
other religions do, but they thing the acceptance criterion are
different), and were afraid of ending up there, they might not act on
their hate. But they don't.
A parable. A community is plagued by crime. The police are
overwhelmed, whether because they aren't trying hard enough, or are
unable to do the job. But we Jews know that the King has a plan, he
will eventually put the all of the criminals in a jail where they will
be treated very harshly (not so quickly that anyone would notice, or
that the gangs would go out of business, but they will all get there
in the end). If the criminals knew about this, it would deter crime.
But the King has only told us about this, the location of the jail is
a secret, and no one is ever released to talk about it, and when
someone is taken there, it looks like he disappeared due to "natural
causes". When we tell the criminals, they think we're making it up.
So while it might deter us from choosing a life of crime, it doesn't
stop most criminals (and when one of us decides to become a criminal,
he can convince himself that this jail doesn't exist, because it's so
well hidden)
So justice is eventually served, although crime continues on a massive
scale. I don't know about you, but I'm more interested in being safe
from crime than having justice.
Andy Katz
<serj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Andy Katz
>> > <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> > > "There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
>
>This is disgusting and offensive. It is very similar to language used by Al
>Sharpton tzorer hayehudim ymach shmo.
This is what, the fourth of fifth time you've attacked my sig, Ian?
Get a clue already, it's not meant to be a serious comment on
anything.
>I wish that my killfile would erase
>everything you write, rather than blocking messages, so that I don't have to
>see this, or the moral relativist, self-hating claptrap that it accompanies.
Why stop there?
Like most who invoke killfiles for anything besides spam you're
actually responding to a primitive urge to erase the *author* more
than what s/he writes. Were the conventional term more like "block
file" or something along those lines, it wouldn't be resorted to quite
as much. "Killfiling" an opponent provides a primitive, magical sort
of satisfaction; one has "killed" one's interlocutor.
Surely it's no coincidence either that those who rely heaviest on the
killfile--not to mention constantly and needlessly referring to the
act publically--are usually the least mature, least logical, least
informed, intellectually laziest and most highly bigoted members of
any group.
The sort of the people who in real life typically resort to their
fists or a fit of hysterics to win an argument.
>"Avinu malkeinu, shlach refuah mehera lecholei amecha."
Most of what you write is pure shanda fur die goyim ... yet *I'm* the
self-hater?
Andy Katz
Paul
Fiona <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:blcpfk$4rq$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
The reference to Edward Said as Egyptian raises an interesting point and
gives purchase to the lie of "Time Immemorial"
Up to 55 years ago, the borders in the middle east were totally porous. That
is why one finds an Edward Said, though born in Jerusalem, equally at home
in Cairo as well as Beruit, calling himself a Palestinian. Or a Yasser
Arafat who was born Cairo doing the same. There was continual movement
between areas in the middle east. Prior to the establishment of the State of
Israel, Arabs would frequently would the various "borders." The borders did
not mean anything to most of them. The various states Egypt, Palestine,
Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon were modern inventions created by the Europeans
(the French and British). The Arabs maintained a pattern of movement that
had been established over the centuries. This was the pattern during the
Ottoman period and just because some Europeans established borders ...
Asher N
news:blgdm8$2mog$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru:
I gather that you either don't understand or don't know the context.
The quote is from a character from the TV show 'Sex and the city'. The
character converts to Judaism and is explaining to her friends.
Considering the context, it IS funny.
Creedmoor Chronicles
news:Xns940868650D06...@66.250.171.186...
> I gather that you either don't understand or don't know the context.
> The quote is from a character from the TV show 'Sex and the city'. The
> character converts to Judaism and is explaining to her friends.
> Considering the context, it IS funny.
Although I am fortunate in that I have zero access to US television here
(although Sex In the City is shown here from what I understand), I know full
well where that quote comes from, and what its original context was.
However, considering the number of idiotic neo-Nazi anti-Semites, 9-11
conspiracy theorists, Muslim extremists, Buchananites, Dukers, Sharptonians,
and other freaks who hang out on Usenet, it is not funny at all when it is
used here. Also, note the tone and contents of the poster's postings, and
you will understand that this signature only adds more fuel to the fire that
this poster is consistently stoking with his moral relativism and other
self-hating verbal vomit, which I highly doubt he even believes himself.
IS
Creedmoor Chronicles
"Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)" <arg...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il> wrote in
message news:tigr81x...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il...
>
> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> > "Joel Shurkin" <jo...@nasw.org> wrote
> >
> > > Edward Said was a Palestinian
> >
> > Not. Edward Said was an Egyptian, pretending to be a Palestinian for his
own
> > benefit.
>
> Like Arafat. And BTW, even if Arafat banned Said's books in his
> fiefdom, this proves nothing other than that Arafat didn't like him
> or them.
Any dispute between Said YMS and Arafat GMAP"H (Gidul Mam'er Al Pnei
Haolam - a malignant tumor on the face of the earth) is similar to the
disputes between the Gambino and Genovese (or whoever the Gambinos rubbed
out in the end) crime families which used to come up from time to time and
AFAIR were connected to control of illegal activity on the NYC docks. Arafat
and Said (or Arafat and Hamas, or Islamic Jihad, or PFLP, or Abu Nidal, or
whatever) are birds of the same feather; both want to destroy Israel, but
they have different methods and goals, and each one wants the honor of doing
his dastardly work on his own, without sharing with the other. One down,
plenty more to go. It's OK - I have a cabinet full of enough liquor to
celebrate for a while, even if they all peyger in quick succession, and
since I'm tired of looking at the same old bottles, yaffe shaah ahat kodem!
IS
AndrewK271
>you will understand that this signature only adds more fuel to the fire that
>this poster is consistently stoking with his moral relativism and other
>self-hating verbal vomit, which I highly doubt he even believes himself.
On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 19:19:03 +0000 (UTC), "Creedmoor Chronicles"
<serj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Although I am fortunate in that I have zero access to US television here
>(although Sex In the City is shown here from what I understand), I know full
>well where that quote comes from, and what its original context was.
>However, considering the number of idiotic neo-Nazi anti-Semites, 9-11
>conspiracy theorists, Muslim extremists, Buchananites, Dukers, Sharptonians,
>and other freaks who hang out on Usenet, it is not funny at all when it is
>used here. Also, note the tone and contents of the poster's postings, and
>you will understand that this signature only adds more fuel to the fire that
>this poster is consistently stoking with his moral relativism and other
>self-hating verbal vomit, which I highly doubt he even believes himself.
"Self-hating verbal vomit..." Ian?
Do you recall writing the below:
<blmdnq$e3oho$1...@ID-98143.news.uni-berlin.de>
While, as you know, I respect and even admire your beliefs and sincere
practices which accompany them, my response to this, and my response to my
recent trip to Auschwitz and Majdanek is 180 degrees opposite from yours.
Just as I have been doing for 5 years now, I will eat and work this Yom
Kippur, as I cannot accept this "Hashem" idea, and I believe that if people
can work and eat, they will not blow themselves up and take innocent people
with them, nor will they build concentration camps. The answer to what
happened in Yerushalayim is very simple: 1) Find a substitute for oil. 2)
Promulgate and enforce draconian family size limits in the Middle East, as
is done in China. Put contraceptives in the water supply if this is
possible. 3) Outlaw consanguinary marriage, so as to stop the breeding of
violent, idiotic human animals who are grist for the mills of Hamas. For
now, the only way out is transfer of every last Arab from pre-1967 Israel,
and all of Jerusalem, and building a very high fence around the borders,
preferably guarded by lions (a species which was native to Israel until the
Crusaders came along and killed the last ones) which would then draw huge
numbers of tourists to Israel. I am sorry, and I know many feel differently
(and I respect their rights, admire their intentions, and will defend their
rights to put their feelings into action via prayer, increased observance
etc), but "Hashem" is not listening, because he just is not there.
******************************************************************************
Aside from the final assertion about Hashem not being there, I find almost
nothing to disagree with, especially the part about the salutory effects
working and eating have on people. While I try to avoid some of the more
precious language, I've pretty much been arguing the same points myself here.
Therefore if I'm guilty of promulgating anti-semetic self-hatred, so are you,
pal.
I also think you've got a hell of nerve making allegations about my beliefs
while insisting, as if you were in a position to know, that Hashem is "just not
there."
You need to pause and think about your own weltanschauung before critiquing
that of others .... especially mine.
Andy Katz
Ps: While you're at it, you might pause and consider why you keep avoiding any
taking up any substantive issue with me, but can't seem to keep your fingers
off my sig ... what gives, Ian?
Joseph Hertzlinger
wrote:
> Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we
> are to ours. We don¹t have to agree with him, we don¹t even have to
> like him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty and cheering at
> his death is unseemly.
Does that mean he observed an analog to the fast of Gedaliah?
Joseph Hertzlinger
wrote:
> "Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)" <arg...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il> wrote in
> message news:tigad8m...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il...
>>
>> Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
>>
>> > Edward Said was a Palestinian
>
> Because he said so?
> Fine - I'm a Venusian.
Don't you mean Cytherean? Venusian isn't grammatically correct.
Harry Weiss
cannot assume time on a post is when it was posted. Although Harry is a
moderator this post used a trigger word and therefore came to me for hand
moderation. The time on it was 1751 6 Oct at which time I was saying
Neilah and Harry was presumably in the middle of Yom Kippur Shacharit. On
closer examination the post was originally sent on Thursday 2 Oct. So if
you see a post apparently sent on Shabbat or Yom Kippur it aint
necessarily so. HPG ]
p_al...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Harry Weiss <hjw...@panix.com> wrote in message news:<blfl5c$sgv$1...@reader2.panix.com>...
> > There are some people who are like Shitler and it is appropriate to say it. Shitler
> > wanted the destruction of the Jewish people as did Said, may gehennom be extra hot
> > for him. The difference is Shitler had the ablity to partially carry it out, Said
> > could only influence people to kill a number of Jews here and there.
> I would like the moderators to consider whether to allow compound
> words (or names), some elements of which would by themselves be
> rejected. I'm by no means defending the honor of Hitler, and wouldn't
> raise this point if people came up with a nickname for him which they
> could say in front of their children.
There is no prohibition on obscenties. I don't know who came up with it, but it
seems like a good version of timche as zecher Amalaek and Lo Tishikach at the same
time.
> Now I'll get back to my original point in this thread - what good does
> it do any of us that our enemies wind up in gehennom, lukewarm or hot?
> If our enemies believed in gehennom (well maybe those who follow
> other religions do, but they thing the acceptance criterion are
> different), and were afraid of ending up there, they might not act on
> their hate. But they don't.
Kel nekamos Hashem...
> A parable. A community is plagued by crime. The police are
> overwhelmed, whether because they aren't trying hard enough, or are
> unable to do the job. But we Jews know that the King has a plan, he
> will eventually put the all of the criminals in a jail where they will
> be treated very harshly (not so quickly that anyone would notice, or
> that the gangs would go out of business, but they will all get there
> in the end). If the criminals knew about this, it would deter crime.
> But the King has only told us about this, the location of the jail is
> a secret, and no one is ever released to talk about it, and when
> someone is taken there, it looks like he disappeared due to "natural
> causes". When we tell the criminals, they think we're making it up.
> So while it might deter us from choosing a life of crime, it doesn't
> stop most criminals (and when one of us decides to become a criminal,
> he can convince himself that this jail doesn't exist, because it's so
> well hidden)
> So justice is eventually served, although crime continues on a massive
> scale. I don't know about you, but I'm more interested in being safe
> from crime than having justice.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Susan Cohen
"Joseph Hertzlinger" <jcyclespersec...@nine.reticulatedcom.com>
wrote in message
news:PsJfb.25527$f11....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Since when? The planet is called "Venus," & I wasn't referring to the island
of Cytherea....
Susan
I Schier
> > I would like the moderators to consider whether to allow compound
> > words (or names), some elements of which would by themselves be
> > rejected. I'm by no means defending the honor of Hitler, and wouldn't
> > raise this point if people came up with a nickname for him which they
> > could say in front of their children.
>
> There is no prohibition on obscenties. I don't know who came up with it,
but it
> seems like a good version of timche as zecher Amalaek and Lo Tishikach at
the same
> time.
I did - I majored in history at Columbia ('88), and I had no time to write
Ymach Shmo after the name while taking notes in WW2 related classes.
Therefore, I would simply write Shitler. As long as neo-Nazis are around,
who consider the original name to be almost holy in their warped semi-minds,
that is how I will write it.
IS
Z
<yaakov_...@hotmail.com> writes
>"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:<blcpfk$4rq$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> "Joel Shurkin" <jo...@nasw.org> wrote
>>
>> > Edward Said was a Palestinian
>>
>> Not. Edward Said was an Egyptian, pretending to be a Palestinian for his own
>> benefit.
>
>On Shai Ben-Tekoa's web site:
>www.deprogramprogram.com
Whatever happened to the "Deprogramme Programme", on Arutz Sheva? And
"Women in Green" and other programmes for that matter?
It seems to loop between "The Aliyah Show" and another programme now.
Where has the music gone?
Funding problems?
Censorship?
Volunteers having to go do paid work?
--
Z
Remove Zeds in e-mail address to reply.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>> czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
>> > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot,
>> >> as this soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>> >
>> > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
>> > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
>> > should not be celebrating his death.
>>
>> Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
>> should we be ungrateful?
>
> Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we
> are to ours.
Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
> We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
> him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty
Not at all. Godwin should have something to say about such silliness.
> and cheering at his death is unseemly.
You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
Gmar CHasima Tova
Joel Shurkin
> Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
> > <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote:
> >> czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
> >> > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot,
> >> >> as this soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> >> >
> >> > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
> >> > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> >> > should not be celebrating his death.
> >>
> >> Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
> >> should we be ungrateful?
> >
> > Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we
> > are to ours.
>
> Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
> he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
> he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
> square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
You might not want to believe everything you read in the Jerusalem Post.
I quoted a friend of 30 years who says he was a Palestinian (forget
where he was born).
>
> > We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
> > him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty
>
> Not at all. Godwin should have something to say about such silliness.
>
> > and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>
> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
> Moshe Schorr
> It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
> May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
> Gmar CHasima Tova
--
Joel Shurkin
łI wish you would make up your mind, Mr. Dickens. It was
either the best of times or the worst of times. It cannot be both.ł
J. J. Levin
I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
Jay
Hillel Sabba Markowitz
> > and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>
> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
I just heard a piece of good news on the radio. The news report said
that "Yessir Imarat" had a heart attack and appears very weak. His
"spokesmen" lied and said that he had the flu.
--
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Im Ain Ani Li Mi Li
Sabba....@verizon.net | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha
Susan Cohen
>
> > and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>
> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
Now I *know* the baby is sucking my brains out - *I* should have thought of
this!
Susan
Joel Shurkin
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote in message news:<2003Oct...@mm.huji.ac.il>...
>
>
>>>and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>>
>>You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>>put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
>
> I just heard a piece of good news on the radio. The news report said
> that "Yessir Imarat" had a heart attack and appears very weak. His
> "spokesmen" lied and said that he had the flu.
>
He sure looked like hell on the tv.
j
--
Joel Shurkin
---------------
ÒI wish you would make up your mind, Mr. Dickens. It was either the best
of times or the worst of times. It cannot be both.Ó
Charles DickensÕ editor
Eliyahu Rooff
"Hillel Sabba Markowitz" <Sabba....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:927a0385.03100...@posting.google.com...
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote in message
news:<2003Oct...@mm.huji.ac.il>...
>
> > > and cheering at his death is unseemly.
> >
> > You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> > put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
> I just heard a piece of good news on the radio. The news report said
> that "Yessir Imarat" had a heart attack and appears very weak. His
> "spokesmen" lied and said that he had the flu.
>
Israel?
Eliyahu
Mir Harven
<jjl...@optonline.net> wrote:
>I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
>something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
>
>And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
>to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
>
>Jay
Hm...
"If you meet your enemy's ox or his ass
going astray, you shall bring it back to him...(Ex. 23:4)
"If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; if he
is thirsty, give him water to drink" (Prov., 25:21)
Something like that, I guess.
*************************************************************
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom
William Blake
*************************************************************
Andy Katz
>Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
>he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
>he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
>square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
Said certainly was guilty of exaggerating his "refugee" heritage,
Moshe. And while he was unabashedly a partisan for the Palestinians,
I've seen no evidence that he sought the destruction of the Jewish
people.
>You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
I would have expected this sort of business from Ian, but not from
you:-(
Andy Katz
____________________________________________
"There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
Charlotte York, "Sex & The City"
Eliyahu Rooff
"Mir Harven" <mha...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:3f8452ef...@news.htnet.hr...
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:02:55 +0000 (UTC), "J. J. Levin"
> <jjl...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
> >I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
> >something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
> >
> >And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
> >to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
> >
> >Jay
>
> Hm...
> "If you meet your enemy's ox or his ass
> going astray, you shall bring it back to him...(Ex. 23:4)
>
> "If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; if he
> is thirsty, give him water to drink" (Prov., 25:21)
>
is meant by "enemy" in those verses. It doesn't refer to someone who's
actively trying to kill you at the time.
Eliyahu
J.J. Levin
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:02:55 +0000 (UTC), "J. J. Levin"
> <jjl...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
>>something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
>>
>>And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
>>to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
>>
>>Jay
>>
>
> Hm...
> "If you meet your enemy's ox or his ass
> going astray, you shall bring it back to him...(Ex. 23:4)
>
> "If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; if he
> is thirsty, give him water to drink" (Prov., 25:21)
>
> Something like that, I guess.
>
Finally got home, where I do have a concordance:
MISHLEI (Proverbs) 24:17: Rejoice not when your enemy falls,
and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles.
The original is: BINFOIL OYVECHA AL TISMACH U'VEKOSHLO
AL YAGEL LIBECHA.
Hmmm, the little gray cells still work, said Poirot.
Jay
Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)
amk...@earthlink.net (Andy Katz) writes:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:41:51 +0000 (UTC), mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>
> >Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
> >he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
> >he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
> >square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
>
> Said certainly was guilty of exaggerating his "refugee" heritage,
> Moshe. And while he was unabashedly a partisan for the Palestinians,
> I've seen no evidence that he sought the destruction of the Jewish
> people.
He nearly singly-handedly managed to make Palestinian terrorism
intellectually respectable among the "intelligentsia", as well as
making any criticism of Arab regimes or would-be-regimes an instance
of "Orientalism" (= imperialism). So unless he was particularly
clueless as to the effects of his tremendous influence in the world of
"ideas" (i.e., stupid), he did seek the destruction of the Jewish
people, or at least the death of many individual Jews. Bad enough for
me.
> >You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> >put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
> I would have expected this sort of business from Ian, but not from
> you:-(
Live in Israel for a few years. Find out what it is like to be
attacked by brutal people whose entire culture has become rooted and
based on seeking your own death. Then see how you feel about some
"elegant" "soft-spoken" "intellectual" who uses his formidable
intellect to excuse and justify that sort of evil.
Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
-Shlomo-
Eliyahu Rooff
"J.J. Levin" <jjl...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3F84B106...@optonline.net...
Eliyahu
Mir Harven
If Said was not an enemy, I dont know who is.
Tonibaruch
J. J. Levin wrote on 10/08/2003 19:02:
>>>> and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>>>>
>>> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>>> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
> something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
Absolutely yes.
"When your enemy falls, you won't cherish" (I beg pardon for the
translation) Proverbs 24:17
It's one of the ethical mitzvot which dwell under the umbrella of "Don't
make to others what is hateful to your eyes" (Bavli Shabbat 31a)
>
> And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
> to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
>
> Jay
And all this said, Edward Said was not the most honest of the adversaries
and not the best friends of Palestinian people, too, in my opinion.
Antonio
Today PS - I'm not definitely sure about the talmudic definition of the
above "enemy". Elyahu could be right assuming that the definition does not
apply to who is still actively fighting and murdering your people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Antonio Pinter, Milan, Italy
p_al...@hotmail.com
> There is no prohibition on obscenties. I don't know who came up with it, but it
> seems like a good version of timche as zecher Amalaek and Lo Tishikach at the same
> time.
Really? I can use expletives in my postings? I wasn't planning to,
but one never knows when they might come in handy ...
> > Now I'll get back to my original point in this thread - what good does
> > it do any of us that our enemies wind up in gehennom, lukewarm or hot?
> > If our enemies believed in gehennom (well maybe those who follow
> > other religions do, but they thing the acceptance criterion are
> > different), and were afraid of ending up there, they might not act on
> > their hate. But they don't.
>
> Kel nekamos Hashem...
And when He does appear, as King David asks in Tehilim 94 (for
onlookers, that's where Harry's quote is from, as well as the rest of
mine, except for the last one which is from 95), stopping the
evildoers from oppressing His people and afficting His inheritance,
killing widows and converts, and murdering orphans, I'll join the "let
us sing to the Lord" chorus. Killing one old man, and leaving the
rest of them able to say (chas vechalila) "The Lord does not see, nor
does the God of Jacob understand", well is this what you've been
praying for? Maybe if smoke came out of Said's grave or something ...
The Midrash says that when leaders who mistreat us get to gehinnom,
Pharoah greets them with "why didn't you learn from my example?" Well
the answer is obvious, it's that antisemites don't believe in Torah,
if they did, they'd go and repent like Rabbi Meir's ancestor Titus!
If they don't believe in their eventual punishment, it doesn't deter
them from killing us. So God knows what he's doing, but I don't see
what how it benefits us (I'm not saying it doesn't, I just don't see
how it does).
If you have an answer, please let me hear it.
Harry Weiss
> (I wrote this yesterday but it was apparently lost in the cyberspace)
> J. J. Levin wrote on 10/08/2003 19:02:
> >>>> and cheering at his death is unseemly.
> >>>>
> >>> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> >>> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
> > something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
> Absolutely yes.
> "When your enemy falls, you won't cherish" (I beg pardon for the
> translation) Proverbs 24:17
> It's one of the ethical mitzvot which dwell under the umbrella of "Don't
> make to others what is hateful to your eyes" (Bavli Shabbat 31a)
> >
> > And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
> > to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
> >
> > Jay
> And all this said, Edward Said was not the most honest of the adversaries
> and not the best friends of Palestinian people, too, in my opinion.
> Antonio
> Today PS - I'm not definitely sure about the talmudic definition of the
> above "enemy". Elyahu could be right assuming that the definition does not
> apply to who is still actively fighting and murdering your people.
I think the defnition is referring to another Jew, with whom you are having problems.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------
> Antonio Pinter, Milan, Italy
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Hillel Sabba Markowitz
> And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
> to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
Yes but the Children of Israel who were being directly attacked were
allowed to praise G-d and rejoice.
--
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Im Ain Ani Li Mi Li
Sabba....@verizon.net | History shows the rest of the world isn't
Andy Katz
(Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)) wrote:
>He nearly singly-handedly managed to make Palestinian terrorism
>intellectually respectable among the "intelligentsia", as well as
>making any criticism of Arab regimes or would-be-regimes an instance
I don't know what to say here, Shlomo. The left is often criticized as
being inherently pro-Palestinian w/o any need for a Said or other
apologist. To an extent, to the extent that the left favors the
underdog, that's a fair criticism.
I just don't see Said as having been pivotal to the process.
>of "Orientalism" (= imperialism). So unless he was particularly
And how is any criticism of Israel characterized?
Almost always as anti-semetism.
If Said attributed a cultural pathology (Imperialism) to all criticism
of Arab regimes (and I honestly doubt he advocated anything quite that
simplistic), then aren't we just as guilty of attributing a
psycho-social pathology (anti-Semetism) to any and all criticism of
Israel?
Attacks against Said remind me of those who blast Johnny Cochrane (the
Black attorney most feel was responsible for getting OJ Simpson off)
while praising Michael Stone (a white attorney most responsible for
getting the LAPD Four off in Simi Valley)--despite both attorneys
having relied on essentially the same strategy.
Yes, Said is the enemy insofar as he advocated a cause that most here
oppose. But that does not mean that he sought the destruction of the
Jewish people.
>clueless as to the effects of his tremendous influence in the world of
>"ideas" (i.e., stupid), he did seek the destruction of the Jewish
>people, or at least the death of many individual Jews. Bad enough for
>me.
Some have insisted recently that the entire raison de etre of the
Palestinian people is the total destruction of world Jewry. Given that
as a fact, you and Moshe are correct.
I do not agree, however, that is the Palestinians' primary goal, and,
despite his being a shmuck of titanic proportions, neither apparently
did the fellow who started this thread.
>> >You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>> >put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>>
>> I would have expected this sort of business from Ian, but not from
>> you:-(
>
>Live in Israel for a few years. Find out what it is like to be
>attacked by brutal people whose entire culture has become rooted and
>based on seeking your own death. Then see how you feel about some
>"elegant" "soft-spoken" "intellectual" who uses his formidable
>intellect to excuse and justify that sort of evil.
>
>Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
cause.
Eliyahu Rooff
"Andy Katz" <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qp3bovon15mi3ebv1...@4ax.com...
>
> >
> >Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
>
> No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
> down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
> state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
> cause.
>
one particular strategy that he disagreed with. It should be obvious to
anyone with a lick of sense that it's counterproductive. (Although I
wouldn't mind them continuing to blow themselves up if only they'd stay out
of Israel and do it at home where they can be with loved ones and friends
when they go...)
Eliyahu
Eliyahu Rooff
<p_al...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:91bf498e.03100...@posting.google.com...
> Harry Weiss <hjw...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:<bliaec$pq2$2...@reader2.panix.com>...
>
> > There is no prohibition on obscenties. I don't know who came up with
it, but it
> > seems like a good version of timche as zecher Amalaek and Lo Tishikach
at the same
> > time.
>
> Really? I can use expletives in my postings? I wasn't planning to,
> but one never knows when they might come in handy ...
>
that you'll likely lose respect in the eyes of others here...
Most English-speakers today can't curse decently anyhow. My Father OBM was a
retired sailor and could carry on for ten minutes without repeating himself.
Young folks today only know a half-dozen or so words and overuse them to the
point of numbing the mind as to any effect they might have had. Instead of
making their speech colorful, they make it colorless and bland.
Eliyahu
Paul
>
> No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
> down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
> state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
> cause.
>
Andy, Said broke with Arafat after Oslo. Not after the start of the
intifada. In an article The Nation, in 1995, Said stated, that the Olso
accords gave "official Palestinian consent to continued occupation" He
opposed any two state solution. Said wanted a single Palestinian state.
As for the intifada, I'm not so sure what his opinion was. But I do remember
the infamous stone throwing event. So from that I would extrapolate that he
would not object to an intifada whose goal was the destruction of Israel as
a Jewish state.
So the issue of Said's break with Arafat had less to do with character and
more to do with methodology.
Yisroel Markov
That will make a Palestinian state all but inevitable. If instead of
blowing themselves up among Jews, they start, e.g., immolating
themselves in public, can you imagine the PR effect?
Of course, if terrorism did really stop, a Pal state wouldn't be
nearly as scary...
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Harry Weiss
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:41:51 +0000 (UTC), mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> >Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
> >he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
> >he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
> >square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
> Said certainly was guilty of exaggerating his "refugee" heritage,
> Moshe. And while he was unabashedly a partisan for the Palestinians,
> I've seen no evidence that he sought the destruction of the Jewish
> people.
> >You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> >put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
> I would have expected this sort of business from Ian, but not from
> you:-(
It bothers you so much when people want to celebrate the, hopefully soon to come,
death of a man who is responsible for the murder of many innnocent people, but would
never condemn those who celebrate in the street when a busload of innocent children
are blown up.
> Andy Katz
> ____________________________________________
> "There's more to being a Jew than jewelry!"
> Charlotte York, "Sex & The City"
> The Simpsons
> a...@earthlink.net
> Andre...@aol.com
> Bastard Nation
> http://www.bastards.org
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Andy Katz
>
>"Andy Katz" <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:qp3bovon15mi3ebv1...@4ax.com...
>>
>> >
>> >Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
>>
>> No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
>> down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
>> state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
>> cause.
>>
>That doesn't mean that he didn't support their goal, though...
And here we come to the eternal sticking point -- what is their goal?
A equitable modus vivendi with Israel and their other Arab neighbors?
Total destruction of the Jewish people, not just in the ME but
worldwide?
Problem with the latter is that you can't negotiate or treat with such
an agenda. And I think it is used as excuse to avoid contemplating
real concessions.
As for the former, I don't honestly think it's been tried, not really,
with settlements removed, roads intact etc...
>It was just
>one particular strategy that he disagreed with. It should be obvious to
>anyone with a lick of sense that it's counterproductive.
Certainly Said was pro-Palestinian. I don't disagree that he was an
enemy of Zionism. I just don't see him as essentially anti-semetic or
seeking the destruction of world Jewry.
Susan Cohen
"Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@shotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm45js$ishsb$1...@ID-190813.news.uni-berlin.de...
Or, better yet, do it at their "cells", where they can take their
co-conspirators w/them. Then their widows & children can escape their
influence.
Susan
Susan Cohen
"Paul" <Pa...@nopsam.com> wrote in message
news:gEghb.32994$KJ5....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "Andy Katz" <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:qp3bovon15mi3ebv1...@4ax.com...
> > >Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
> >
> > No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
> > down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
> > state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
> > cause.
> >
>
> Andy, Said broke with Arafat after Oslo. Not after the start of the
> intifada. In an article The Nation, in 1995, Said stated, that the Olso
> accords gave "official Palestinian consent to continued occupation"
Ah, so he broke w/Arafat over Arafat's pretending to be reasonable.
*What* a *surprise*. Not.
Susan
Eliyahu Rooff
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
news:3f86...@news101.his.com...
Given the Arab tradition of never-ending retaliation and vengence killings,
it's better if they don't have any descendants. Consider, for example, the
woman who perpetrated last week's suicide murders... she was seeking revenge
for her brother's death.
Eliyahu
Joel Shurkin
J
Andy Katz
<hjw...@panix.com> wrote:
>It bothers you so much when people want to celebrate the, hopefully soon to come,
>death of a man who is responsible for the murder of many innnocent people, but would
It doesn't bother me at all if people celebrate the demise of Arafat,
Harry.
I might just fire up a squib or two myself;-)
He and Said are not especially comparable.
>never condemn those who celebrate in the street when a busload of innocent children
>are blown up.
To be perfectly honest, Harry, I've never seen anyone celebrate in the
street under those circumstances.
But I would think it wouldn't be necessary to condemn such an action,
that said condemnation could be taken for granted.
Tonibaruch
>> never condemn those who celebrate in the street when a busload of innocent
>> children
>> are blown up.
>
> To be perfectly honest, Harry, I've never seen anyone celebrate in the
> street under those circumstances.
Looking at pictures from the West Bank, I saw proud and colourful graffiti
pictures of scuolabuses blowing up. And those kamikaze always get hero's
treatment. So, yes, celebrations of mass murder occur, unfortunately.
Tonibaruch
>>> Not at all. Godwin should have something to say about such silliness.
>>>
>>>
>>>> and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>>>>
>>> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>>> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> I don't have a concordance handy (I'm at work) but isn't there
> something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
Absolutely yes.
"When your enemy falls, you won't cherish" (I beg pardon for the
translation) Proverbs 24:17
It's one of the ethical mitzvot which dwell under the umbrella of "Don''t
make to others what is hateful to your eyes" (Bavli Shabbat 31a)
Almost as important as "When a post is written on Shabbat, you'll let it sit
until shabbat ends at poster's place" (SCJM moderator's policy) (just
joking)
>
> And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
> to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
>
> Jay
And all this said, Edward Said was not the most honest of the adversaries
and not the best friends of Palestinian people, too, in my opinion.
Antonio
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillel Sabba Markowitz
> Andy Katz wrote on 10/10/2003 9:36:
>
> >> never condemn those who celebrate in the street when a busload of innocent
> >> children
> >> are blown up.
> >
> > To be perfectly honest, Harry, I've never seen anyone celebrate in the
> > street under those circumstances.
>
>
> Looking at pictures from the West Bank, I saw proud and colourful graffiti
> pictures of scuolabuses blowing up. And those kamikaze always get hero's
> treatment. So, yes, celebrations of mass murder occur, unfortunately.
Don't forget the pictures of celebrations on September 11, 2001 which
CNN and the (US) networks tried to suppress. I saw the US networks
mute the sound and put in a voiceover so that we would not realize
what was going on when the feed showed what the Arabs were doing.
--
Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore" | Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz
Jews are the fish, Torah is our water | Zovchai Adam, agalim
yishakun
Y. Macales
> Given the Arab tradition of never-ending retaliation and vengence killings,
> it's better if they don't have any descendants. Consider, for example, the
> woman who perpetrated last week's suicide murders... she was seeking revenge
> for her brother's death.
>
(Arabs) are going lose and we in Israel are going to defeat them.
This cult of death and destruction will destroy them in the end. The
Japanese and Germans were educated to believe that dying in battle for
their leaders was the greatest glory, but they both lost in the end.
Wars are won through technology and brain power and a firm belief that
you are in the right, not through a pursuit of death. Recall Patton's
famous speech which was repeated at the beginning of the great movie
about him---no one ever won a war by dying for his country, you win by
getting the guy on the other side to die for his country. The
Palestinians are doomed and they brought it on themselves.
Paul
> news:gEghb.32994$KJ5....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> >
> > "Andy Katz" <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:qp3bovon15mi3ebv1...@4ax.com...
> > > >Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
> > >
> > > No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
> > > down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
> > > state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
> > > cause.
> > >
> >
> > Andy, Said broke with Arafat after Oslo. Not after the start of the
> > intifada. In an article The Nation, in 1995, Said stated, that the Olso
> > accords gave "official Palestinian consent to continued occupation"
>
> Ah, so he broke w/Arafat over Arafat's pretending to be reasonable.
> *What* a *surprise*. Not.
>
> Susan
LOL
Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)
amk...@earthlink.net (Andy Katz) writes:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:33:40 +0000 (UTC), "Eliyahu Rooff"
> <lro...@shotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Andy Katz" <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:qp3bovon15mi3ebv1...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Said was the Goebbels of the Palestinian terror industry.
> >>
> >> No. Goebbels was always loyal, always popular with the Fuhrer, right
> >> down to the end. Said had character enough to break with Arafat and
> >> state that the intifada was counterproductive to the Palestinian
> >> cause.
> >>
> >That doesn't mean that he didn't support their goal, though...
>
> And here we come to the eternal sticking point -- what is their goal?
>
> A equitable modus vivendi with Israel and their other Arab neighbors?
>
> Total destruction of the Jewish people, not just in the ME but
> worldwide?
>
> Problem with the latter is that you can't negotiate or treat with such
> an agenda. And I think it is used as excuse to avoid contemplating
> real concessions.
>
> As for the former, I don't honestly think it's been tried, not really,
> with settlements removed, roads intact etc...
Correct me if I misunderstand you, but your "solution" to try is:
"First, Israel withdraws utterly from all disputed territories it took
over in 1967, even if terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians continue,
and then we will see if the Palestinians really want peace." The
potential escalation in Israeli deaths, of course, is irrelevant. So
is the fact that the Arabs were trying to push the Jews into the sea
before a single settlement was built, as is the fact that the PLO
terror organization was founded in 1964, 3 years *before* there were
any so-called "occupied territories".
:-)@@!!|~~|
-Shlomo-
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> p_al...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Harry Weiss <hjw...@panix.com> wrote
>
>> > There are some people who are like Shitler and it is appropriate
>> > to say it. Shitler wanted the destruction of the Jewish people
>> > as did Said, may gehennom be extra hot for him. The difference
>> > is Shitler had the ablity to partially carry it out, Said could
>> > only influence people to kill a number of Jews here and there.
>
>> I would like the moderators to consider whether to allow compound
>> words (or names), some elements of which would by themselves be
>> rejected. I'm by no means defending the honor of Hitler, and
>> wouldn't raise this point if people came up with a nickname for
>> him which they could say in front of their children.
Cute way to describe your problem.
> There is no prohibition on obscenties.
Correct. The Vicar may not like them but that's his problem.
> I don't know who came up with it,
IIRC, the credit goes to Ian. He needed to write about him and
couldn't get himself to write his name correcly. "Shitler" was the
result.
> but it seems like a good version of timche as zecher Amalaek and
> Lo Tishikach at the same time.
Agreed.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
>> > <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>> >> czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
>> >> > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> >> Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot,
>> >> >> as this soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>> >> >
>> >> > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
>> >> > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
>> >> > should not be celebrating his death.
>> >>
>> >> Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
>> >> should we be ungrateful?
>> >
>> > Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we
>> > are to ours.
>>
>> Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
>> he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
>> he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
>> square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
>
> Post. I quoted a friend of 30 years who says he was a Palestinian
> (forget where he was born).
What do you mean "forget where he was born"? That's the whole point!
>> > We don=B9t have to agree with him, we don=B9t even have to like
>> > him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty
>>
>> Not at all. Godwin should have something to say about such silliness.
>>
>> > and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>>
>> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
No comment?
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Joel Shurkin wrote:
>> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>>Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
>>>><mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>>czar...@aol.com (Lee Ratner) writes:
>>>>>>"Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot,
>>>>>>>as this soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
>>>>>>intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
>>>>>>should not be celebrating his death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Why not? We were his intended victims. If G-d has removed him, why
>>>>>should we be ungrateful?
>>>>>
>>>>Edward Said was a Palestinian and was as loyal to his people as we
>>>>are to ours.
>>>>
>>>Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
>>>he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
>>>he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
>>>square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
>>
>> You might not want to believe everything you read in the Jerusalem Post.
>> I quoted a friend of 30 years who says he was a Palestinian (forget
>> where he was born).
>>
>>>>him, but he deserves respect for his loyalty
>>>>
>>>Not at all. Godwin should have something to say about such silliness.
>>>
>>>>and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>>>>
>>>You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>>>put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
> something in scripture about not cheering when your enemy falls ?
That's refering to a _personal_ enemy. When an enemy of the Jewish
people dies, the original verse is what's applicable; "Beavud
Reshaim Rina!".
> And I seem to recall an agadah about God telling his angels not
> to cheer when the Egyptians drowned at the Red Sea...
The angels weren't the ones being killed by the Egyptians. OTOH, the
people of Israel who _were_ the Egyptians intended victims burst out
in song. That Song of the Sea is part of the _daily_ liturgy. So
obviously it's correct to sing when such soney Yisrael finally get
their comeuppance.
To tell you the truth Jay, I'm even more disappointed with Joel, who
states; "deserves respect" about the late unlamented.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> amk...@earthlink.net (Andy Katz) writes:
>> "Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@shotmail.com> wrote:
>> >"Andy Katz" <amk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
This last factoid cannot be repeated too often! 1964! 1964! 1964!
Three years _before_ the Six-Day War. That's the year the PLO was
established. It's amazing how we ignore that.
Susan Cohen
<mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:2003Oct2...@mm.huji.ac.il...
> Joel Shurkin <shu...@mac.com> writes:
> > cheering at his death is unseemly.
> >>
> >> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
> >> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
> No comment?
Hey *I* could give you one (big surprise there)!
How about: "I salute you, I didn't even think of that, but I darned well
should have!"
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> amk...@earthlink.net (Andy Katz) writes:
>>
>> >Hah. I just read an article on that in the Jerusalem Post. Turns out
>> >he was born in Egypt but "remembered" his visits to "Palestine" that
>> >he "felt" like a Palestinian. BS! IOW, he lied all the way from
>> >square one, and wanted to destroy me and my people in the process.
>>
>> Moshe. And while he was unabashedly a partisan for the Palestinians,
>> people.
>
> He nearly singly-handedly managed to make Palestinian terrorism
> intellectually respectable among the "intelligentsia", as well as
> making any criticism of Arab regimes or would-be-regimes an instance
> "ideas" (i.e., stupid), he did seek the destruction of the Jewish
> people, or at least the death of many individual Jews. Bad enough for
> me.
>
>> >put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>>
>> you:-(
>
> Live in Israel for a few years. Find out what it is like to be
> attacked by brutal people whose entire culture has become rooted and
> based on seeking your own death. Then see how you feel about some
> "elegant" "soft-spoken" "intellectual" who uses his formidable
> intellect to excuse and justify that sort of evil.
>
Thank you Shlomo!. I'm used to armchair generalship from Andy. Sigh.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>> Joel Shurkin <jo...@nasw.org> writes:
>>
>> > and cheering at his death is unseemly.
>>
>> You're right but I can't afford to rent Madison Square Garden to
>> put on a special extravaganza. So I'm stuck with just "cheering".
>
> thought of this!
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thanks.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
Gmar CHasima Tova
Susan Cohen
Yes. I can understand the rest of the world ignoring it; it would make it
that much more difficult to pretend they aren't basically Jew-haters.
Susan
Andy Katz
>Thank you Shlomo!. I'm used to armchair generalship from Andy. Sigh.
And I, unfortunately, am getting used to third-party sniping from
Moshe ... even bigger sigh ... followed by a belch that was purely not
intentional (honest;-).
Speaking of armchair generalship, Moshe, what do you call it when a
man is compared to Hitler and other high Nazis, called a major enemy
of the Jewish people who seeks nothing less than our utter annhilation
.... without a single cite or quote or reference offered pertaining to
his actual work?
Said's great failing was to insist that only Arabs could effectively
critique Arab culture/language/politics/religion/etc..
Thank goodness we Jews don't feel that way about critique from
gentiles;-)
Fiona
"Henry Goodman" <henry....@virgin.net> wrote
> "Lee Ratner" <czar...@aol.com> wrote
> > "Creedmoor Chronicles" <serj...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > > Beavud Reshaim Rina! And indeed the blood of the wicked did rot, as
this
> > > soneh yisrael died of leukemia 67 years too late!
> >
> > Edward Said was annoying enemy of Israel who used every
> > intellectually dishonest trick in his writings against Israel but we
> > should not be celebrating his death.
>
> Why not?
> I look forward to greater celebrations when Arafat's illnesses catch up
with
> him.
Apparently a team of Jordanian doctors came to see just today. Please God it
won't be long 'til we can have those celebrations you (we all) crave. Mind
you, "the Jews" will be held responsible for his death, even if it is by
natural causes, although a rocket up his tuches would be a perfectly natural
cause of death for Arafat.
Fiona
Fiona
You can ignore, it was already reposted (I think, I didn't check all the
"disappearing" post).
Fiona
"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bl9k01$hn3$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
Chano
"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bl9k01$hn3$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
I can assure you Fiona that Arafat has had so much up his tuches than an
extra rocket won't make the slightest difference.
Chano