Mailer takes aim at McCain as POW - "John McCain has created this myth that he is a hero and he is not," Kiley said from his home in Garnerville, N.Y. Kiley's group cites as evidence a May 1973 U.S. News & World Report article by McCain in which he said he realized, on his third or fourth day of captivity after his plane was shot down in 1967, that his knee was so swollen the blood might pool in it and kill him. So he offered to give military information to his captors in exchange for medical treatment.
rst0wxyz
By Jeffrey Collins, Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 01/16/2008 02:39:16 AM PST
COLUMBIA, S.C. -- Supporters of Republican John McCain on Tuesday
assailed a mailer sent to state newspaper editors claiming he sold out
fellow POWs to get better treatment while held prisoner in Vietnam.
"Nothing could be further from the truth. I know because I was there,"
Orson Swindle, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel and former prisoner
of war, said in a statement about the mailing from Vietnam Veterans
Against John McCain.
The group's organizer, Jerry Kiley, who said he also is a Vietnam
veteran, said in a telephone phone interview that he has been trying
for years to spread what he said is the truth about McCain's record.
"John McCain has created this myth that he is a hero and he is not,"
Kiley said from his home in Garnerville, N.Y.
Kiley's group cites as evidence a May 1973 U.S. News & World Report
article by McCain in which he said he realized, on his third or fourth
day of captivity after his plane was shot down in 1967, that his knee
was so swollen the blood might pool in it and kill him. So he offered
to give military information to his captors in exchange for medical
treatment.
In the article, McCain said he told the story to make the point that
the North Vietnamese only gave medical treatment to POWs if they
thought they were going to get something in return. He did not say
that he went through with his end of the deal.
Kiley claims information McCain gave to the North Vietnamese led to an
increase in U.S. planes being shot down.
McCain's spokesman, B.J. Boling, said McCain never passed military
information to the North Vietnamese. He said the campaign was
publicizing the mailer "to serve as an example of how we can bring
these shadowy groups out into the open."
Kiley said his group sent the mailing to 80 newspaper editors. He said
he is considering sending the information to editors in states with
later primaries. South Carolina's Republican primary is Saturday.
McCain's state supporters have created what they call a "Truth Squad"
to counter the kind of negative attacks that derailed his candidacy
here in 2000.
Four years ago in the Democratic presidential race, a group calling
itself Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ran television ads that
challenged Democratic nominee John Kerry's service record in Vietnam.
Doug Reese
is bullshit now.
Jerry Kiley is a liar, pure and simple.
Doug Reese
Gee
>
> - Show quoted text -
The real big liars are those Yankees. Who did believe their WMD,
Western democracy, Human Right, Freedom of Speech?
rst0wxyz
> This was bullshit when they trotted these lies out in SC in 2000, it
> is bullshit now.
>
> Jerry Kiley is a liar, pure and simple.
This can be proven easily enough. See if you can dig up copies of May
1973 U.S. News & World Report to prove he didn't say it.
>
> Doug Reese
>
bmo...@nyx.net
So you're a Mets fan? Aren't you a little off topic, dum-dum?
joes...@yahoo.com
> Mailer takes aim at McCain as POW
> By Jeffrey Collins, Associated Press
> Article Last Updated: 01/16/2008 02:39:16 AM PST
Please visit: http://www.soft-vision.com/we-remember to learn more
about Col. Ted Guy former PoW NVN.
Many PoW Bios: http://www.soft-vision.com/hanoi ( look for the login
link to the main site one the second page. )
Col. Larson: http://www.soft-vision.com/hanoi/larson
I also just received comment from another PoW and holder of the DSC.
( Distinguished Service Cross )
We may post that later. His bio is located at: http://www.soft-vision.com/ranger
after the intro - click on the link for Maj. Mark Smith, (PoW Vietnam)
the "Swiftveting" accusations have already appeared..
Did that stop Swifvets & PoW's for the truth from moving forward?
NOPE! or any other group.. nope..
Nor will it the many who you will see appear to oppose him, opening
up "his" sealed cans of worms.. those he chose to create.
Sides, ask Larry, I never do any thing to win any personality contest.
If it's wrong it's wrong and will let who ever it is know why we feel
it's
wrong. Then they can take it or leave it.
It would be MORALLY WRONG not to vocally oppose McCain.
The PoW Logo had several statements attached beside the original
one.. and the one I liked the most back when was,
PoW/MIA - You are not forgotten. We haven't broke faith.
letting McCain off the hook would be breaking faith with those he
betrayed.
No different than his butt buddy John Kerry
If I had a wish - it would be Col. Guy was still here to face him.
Finally if
you were told first hand - yet the person who told you died, a guy you
worked
on many issues with - would you let what he told you die?
I heard all the HORSGSHEET from some at NAM PoW who will character
assassinate any one who oppose John.. well because I had first hand
info
in my archives ( email between Ted Guy and I ) we were able to at
least
make those adamant that Col. Guy would never say such things ( as
they covered John's butt ) into admitting yup, he did...but then went
right
after the Col. claiming now he was a fruitloop.
--------------WATCH:-------------------------------------------
from Nam Historian John McGrath.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:12:34 +0000
I have had some quick exch anges with Swede, Orson and others who have
first hand knowledge.
The story of the relationship between Ted and McCain is getting
clearer.
Seems that Ted did in fact tell La boutiller (or what ever his name
was)
and others that he suspected that McCain left camp for six months....
this was untrue.
------------------------
Now whats NEXT? We ascertained - despite all kind of opposition
Col. Guy did in fact feel McCain left camp.. so whats the next card
one might draw to exhonerate John McCain? They even nailed
Mark Smith - who I mentioned earlier..
-----------------------
1. Call him a loony 2. Try to state he was not SRO over McCain
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course this all poured in after Col. Guy passed away..
Some NamPoW's said: ( not in any special order )
Joe...As much as you and Swede love Ted, I had differences of opinion
with Ted. I don't have time to tell you about the (almost)
violent shouting matches I had with Ted. In the end, I concluded that
the head injuries Ted suffered with the beating he took in
captivity was still taking its toll the couple of years before he
died.
In short, he was not stable, he made irrational accusations about
McCain which are unsubstantiated by fact. Ted (and Mark Smith,
another wierdo who was never near McCain or our camps), was never
"privy" to sensitive information as he claimed. I doubt that
Ted was ever "SRO over McCain,"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And what other great line might one use to discredit Ted?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The conspiracy groups really got to Ted and sold him a bill of goods.
Yet another:
I'm just expressing my opinion that Ted was "not all there." Something
was wrong, and I think it started with the head injury in captivity.
and another:
I forgot about our exchange, thanks for the reminder. For example, on
the faulty brain of Ted, take an objective look at the statement
you sent: "Guy told folks that he suspected McCain left camp for six
months...."
I don't mean to get into details tonight, but this exactly the type of
horse shit that Ted was spreading....stupid baseless "suspicions"
which impinge a man's integrity...and Ted didn't know what the hell he
was talking about.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well...two SRO's speak out on the claimed beatings - so Ted must a
been SRO, eh? -- but some even tried to state he lied about being
SRO at the camps.
----------------------------
Phoenix New Times, March 25, 1999 --
Two former POWs, Air Force Colonels Ted Guy and Gordon "Swede" Larson,
said in a feature article that while they could not guarantee that
McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it. Both Guy and Larson
were senior ranking officers (SRO's) in McCain's POW camp at a time he
claims he was in solitary confinement and being tortured.
Larson told the New Times, "Between the two of us, it's our belief,
and to the best of our knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or
harmed
physically in that camp [known as 'The Plantation'].
"My only contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The
Plantation, to the best of my knowledge and Ted's knowledge, he was
not
physically abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp
that people were released from."
----------------------------------
Feel free to comment after YOU investigate. What you hear from the
McCain camp should also be
verified. Check McCains record on PoW.MIA and then read what Ross
Perot just stated:
----------------------------
Perot's real problem with McCain is that he believes the senator
hushed up
evidence that live POWs were left behind in Vietnam and even
transferred to the
Soviet Union for human experimentation, a charge Perot says he heard
from a
senior Vietnamese official in the 1980s. "There's evidence, evidence,
evidence,"
Perot claims. "McCain was adamant about shutting down anything to do
with
recovering POWs."
------------------------------
joes...@yahoo.com
involved in a managerial position during the 2000 attempt working for
John McCain.
( http://www.nampows.org )
Get a minute - outside the box.. please visit http://www.soft-vision.com/warriros
and spend a minute with a friend of mine: http://www.soft-vision.com/lrrp
( Never Forgotten )
The following is from email with header information in tact should it
be required. All saves in our archives are saved in
machine readable format only and can only be red by Netscape or now
Thunderbird. These posts were also sent at the
time to various news groups at yahoo or other and can be found there
in their original format for verification.
Rod Utech wrote:
Joe,
I stand with you against McCain.
Regarding articles about McCain, research the Arizona Republic for
the series of articles they did when he ran in 2000.
Also, US News and World Report, about April, 1973 did an article
about our POWs that includes a quote of McCain's where he stated he
would trade military information for being taken to a hospital.
If you really want to augment your research, talk to Patty Hopper at
TFO Inc in Arizona. She has a wealth of information on him.
It is not too early to squelch his plans for ANY position in 2008.
Rod
Joe wrote:
Pablo is Paul Galanti (NamPoW)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Pablo,
( Can I still call you Pablo? ) A few pictures stand out in my
mind
from the Vietnam PoW Experience.
Col. Ted Guy's is one. It was a pic just after shoot down in Laos
and
probably one taken for propaganda purposes. When Col.
Guy saw the camera - he politely gave them the bird. He sent me
that
pic and unfortunately I can't find it. I know it's in my archives
but remains in hiding - so be it.
The second is one you sent. The non-redacted version of you siting
in a
cell while your captors were trying to do propaganda shoots
and you gave them the bird - that was airbrushed out by the States
news media that published. That is also MIA or I'd include it with
this reply.
( the bird: - for the blonds on board and barbijo in FL. the bird
was
not a parakeet or peigon - the bird is an ancronym for the middle
finger)
Wherefore, I want you to know from the start you are respected and
admired for what you endured and for returning with Honor.
I know you were with John McCain in a managerial position when he
ran
for President, I believe John McGrath also worked
with McCain as well as Orson Swindell (SP) and a few others. That
was
your personal convictions and Lord knows more than
earned right(s) to support who ever you chose.
All Navy Pilots who shared an experience.
You know where I stood. A no-one next to a monument - an ex USAF
Fighter Jock named Col. Ted W. Guy. A man who endured
yet has been chastised by many in NAMPoW for standing up for what
he
believed was truth. Because he believed - he became the
groupie, sick, demented - a problem caused by his head injury's
inflicted
by the NVA while he was interned as PoW living a
NO COMPROMISE HONOR existence in a hot cell in isolation most of
the
time. I know you worked with swiftvets & pows
for the truth -along side others including one of Col. Ted Guy's
best
friends. Col. Larson.. the poster boy for those PoW's marched
through the streets.
I know about Rathergate - and and Kopellgate - that sleezebag -
but I
also know how to read. Most of what you have stated were
righteous issues many worked on nationally - not the few - as
without
the many who jumped in to hold up and support - no one would
have walked any where, swiftvets, pow's for the truth, no one. It
was
ALL working together as ONE for a common cause that
made the difference.
When I see you mention Schanberg helped snatch a victory I have to
ask,
given the statements about Col. Guy that came from NAM PoW's
who were pissed off Col. Guy walked out of the circle,
investigated;
he felt betrayed and took a stand - are you making these
statements
because
Schamberg investigated the "Public Record" available to all of
what
McCain has done to shut the doors on "live" pow mia and the entire
issue, or because you belive your statement about the man who won
the
Pulitzer Prize for his 1975 coverage of political and social chaos
in
(very anti communist stance) Cambodia The man who's news reports
and a
best-selling book about his experiences in Southeast Asia became
the basis for the Academy Award-winning film The Killing Fields.
Paul
was that anti US grunt or was tha an anti communist statement
about
what happened ex post facto the VN war?
Have you read Schambergs article on McCain's anti-PoW.MIA stance?
What
he wrote is not hard to verify - specially McCains bullying
and vilification of familiy members of those still missing or any
one
who brings up PoW/MIA and that men were left behind?
What do you fell about John McCains statement, "on the record in
DC"
that"
"McCain has said again and again that he has seen no "credible"
evidence
that more than a tiny handful of men might have been
alive in captivity after the official prison return in 1973."
More than a tiny handful? Who's hand was used to measure the worth
of
just one life of any one held in captivity?
Pablo, ( in endearing names is not a nono now ) investigate. I
asked
that SwiftVets & PoW's for the Truth investigate - just
Schanberg's statements, information readily available and report
back
with the truth.
My question to you is, WHY, if all came home ( but a tiny handful
of
men - John just happened to see - they are not my words )
WHY has he closed every door he could close on the issue so others
who
want to investigate can't or are totally frustrated,
or as with some family members insulted, vilified and brought to
tears. Why? Why are records from the PoW experience
SEALED - another work of John?
Let me print, as I am sure shortly, I will be on the alter, a few
of the
direct statements that were sent here about Col. Guy from
the few NAM POW's who support "all came home". but first a word
from
Nam Historian John McGrath.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:12:34 +0000
I have had some quick exchanges with Swede, Orson and others who
have
first hand knowledge. The story of the relationship
between Ted and McCain is getting clearer. Seems that Ted did in
fact
tell La boutiller (or what ever his name was) and others
that he suspected that McCain left camp for six months....this was
untrue.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Col. Guy was not into the "untrue" statement syndrome. I can not
prove
that McCain did so some one needs to prove that he
did not - else - Col. Guy's statement is gospel. He was John
McCains
SRO. Being "tortured" at the plantation, well, ain't no
one going to convince me he was as two SRO's have stated NO ONE at
the
Plantation was. Col. Guy & Col. Larson.
I have the following emails with headers in tact. when they are
archived
it is in machine readable ( by a mail reader only ) format
so without the mail reader they are impossible to read. In order
to "un
archive" they must be brought back into the email reader
they came from - so no alteration of header or other is possible.
They
were sent to me with a request to read and erase.
I didn't agree with the later, but will not publish where they
came from
unless you really want me too. Just a few as they make
the point I mentioned above and in the letter below.. if you stand
up
for those you feel were abandoned... if you go after those
you feel impeded their recovery - you will be character
asassinated or
other..
Of course this all poured in after Col. Guy passed away..
------------ one
jab-----------------------------------------------------------------
Some NamPoW's said: ( not in any special order )
///////////////////////////////////
Joe...As much as you and Swede love Ted, I had differences of
opinion
with Ted. I don't have time to tell you about the (almost)
violent shouting matches I had with Ted. In the end, I concluded
that
the head injuries Ted suffered with the beating he took in
captivity was still taking its toll the couple of years before he
died.
In short, he was not stable, he made irrational accusations about
McCain which are unsubstantiated by fact. Ted (and Mark Smith,
another wierdo who was never near McCain or our camps), was never
"privy" to sensitive information as he claimed. I doubt that
Ted was ever "SRO over McCain,"
------------ two
jabs-----------------------------------------------
The conspiracy groups really got to Ted and sold him a bill of
goods.
------------
------------three jabs---------------------------------
I'm just expressing my opinion that Ted was "not all there."
Something
was wrong, and I think it started with the head
injury in captivity.
------------
------------ four--------------------------------------
I forgot about our exchange, thanks for the reminder. For example,
on
the faulty brain of Ted, take an objective look at the statement
you sent: "Guy told folks that he suspected McCain left camp for
six
months...."
I don't mean to get into details tonight, but this exactly the
type of
horse shit that Ted was spreading....stupid baseless "suspicions"
which impinge a man's integrity...and Ted didn't know what the
hell he
was talking about.
------------- I think these should be
sufficient-------------------------
As to his dumb assertion that he had "facts," that some didn't get
released, I could never get him to name a verifiable "fact" to me,
a
name of a single man, for example.
(( Joes Note: If your reading this - please reread John's
statement
above -"... more than a tiny handful of men" - do you believe
John? )
Enough banter...I have some data entry to work on. Thanks for the
exchanges, and thanks for your great work on the Kerry issues.
---------------
I agree, enough banter. Public Record concerning the Schanberg
article
should be sufficient. Lets continue based on fact, facts that
appear some want to keep swept under the rug.. Schanberg just
glued them
( from public record and contact with McCain )
all together from the record. What say ye to just one simple
question..
If none remained - why all the laws created by McCain to shut the
doors
to investigate? I think The Wall ( for one ) gave us that
right to find out for ourselfs. The only nations that want things
locked out of the publics eye are Dictatorial (Left or right wing)
thank
God we are no there yet, If some have there way - we would be held
to
the premise of royalty and serfs - where I must retort,
Give me Liberty or Give me Death.
No need to brand me a fruit cake or other - what ever y'all dubbed
Col.
Guy - I'd be honored to have you lay on me.. I will
take it as an Honor and Award and an affirmation that , SHITHOT
Col. Guy
- you did your job, you stood by those tiny
hand full who were abandoned and I was proud to walk by your side
for a
moment in your life, you made a difference.
Finally
Who is Rod? Rod does a PoW/MIA news show on a radio station out of
Colorado. He's one of the silent majority.
(( If I can't find your picture Pablo - tossing the bird at the
cameras
- despite all above - would you resend - I really respect what you
did with
that bird.. too bad - I think you and Col Guy would have settled
the PoW/MIA
issue in a shot time - if you had joined forces. At least you
don't resort to
name calling.. I resepct that.))
Now.. only wish I could find the Col.'s. pic in Laos tossing the
bird.
I'd send it to John McCain.
Despite the circumstances, it was nice hearing from you once
again, Stay
well.. Paul.
And thats the way it is...
Joe
News & Views (Not Politically Correct, No Speil Chicker, No
GrammaTics (
Got Gramm a Tic Collar )
Not a Yes man.
Houston, TX
bcc: sydney schanberg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\
Lets not forget Matt Maupin & Scott Speichter and the recent
SEALMIA(s)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\
To the men and women who came home without Arms or Legs or both or
other...
You are our hero's too. You have been sentenced to a life of Honor
among many for your never ending sacrifice.. just wanted you to
know
as I dwell on PoW/MIA I dwell on what you gave so that I can print
how I feel and see it -- you are NOT FORGOTTEN!
Eddie The Lock
Joe Oliver--- still kickin ass and takin names. nice post guiseppe!!!
Outstanding. I know it will help any out there against mccain.
Mr. Kiley, after reading this will know your name and how much you've
been involved over the years, Too many years.
My bet is he's happy to see this post and maybe it will shut up the
ones that are ignorant of the truth on mccain. The truths we've known
about for so many years finally coming to light. No Mccain not now
not
ever. Colonel Guy is smiling.
gbu/cul
Eddie The Lock
Eddie The Lock
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yankees? Lmao.
wtf? yeah those damn wmd's.
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
seen your kind in nyc and see it all over the news.
you whining lib moron.
guess you're another that forgot about the towers and 9/11 eh?
here's a little refresher course for your sorry ass
http://attacked911.tripod.com/
pay special attention to the poor bastards jumping or hanging out the
windows.
you sickening punk.
yankee? roflmfao
go change the curtains on your trailer and brush your tooth.
God Bless America
Eddie The Lock
bmo...@nyx.net
Interesting article from 1999 examining both sides of the issue...
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1999-03-25/news/is-john-mccain-a-war-hero/