Stupid comments by an engineer
Raveninghorde
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
Phil Allison
"Raveninghorde"
* Messrs Abbott and Costello famously said:
PhD stands for Pin headed Dope.
... Phil
Jim Thompson
PhD == Piled Higher and Deeper
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
"Somebody had to build the ceiling...
before Michelangelo could go to work."
- John Ratzenberger
http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Somebody_had_to_build_the_ceiling.pdf
WangoTango
The-Enve...@My-Web-Site.com says...
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
> <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
>
> >One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> >about nothing.
> >
> >He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> >board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
> >you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
> >
> >Talk about not understanding what he knows.
>
> PhD == Piled Higher and Deeper
>
A lot of folks around here have PhDs (Post Hole Diggers).
Ian Bell
Sounds like he already knows a lot about nothing. No need to send him
for a PhD.
Cheers
Ian
Raveninghorde
wrote:
I'm not sending him.
He's from a culture that respects qualifications not achievements. I
think respect for the Word prevents one being willing to challange
received wisdom.
To be fair to him he'll do well in a non design environment.
Jim Thompson
I've made LOTS of money from fixing circuits for PhD's, then returning
again and again and again to fix what they changed after I left ;-)
Hammy
<raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
have PHD's.
I'm surprised more people aren't killed from shoddy consumer and for
that matter industrial electronics.
o...@uakron.edu
Steve
o...@uakron.edu
> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
> have PHD's.
>
They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
with a PhD..
I'm dealing with a situation where a friend doesn't have the right
"qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
most postdocs in the field.
So far no takers.
Steve
Jim Thompson
When I google I search "search phrase" -IEEE -WIPO -patent -portal ;-)
Rich Grise
You should send this to Scott Adams for his "True tales of induhviduals"
segment. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Joerg
>> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
>> have PHD's.
>>
>
> They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
> to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
> with a PhD..
>
One of the huge mistakes in academia. Right up there with universities
and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
don't have the "proper credentials".
> I'm dealing with a situation where a friend doesn't have the right
> "qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
> new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
> further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
> working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
> byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
> most postdocs in the field.
>
> So far no takers.
>
Why not self-publish it on a web site and make sure search engines find
it? You can format it just like a scientific publication and there's
nothing the ivory tower guys can do against it.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Joerg wrote:
> One of the huge mistakes in academia. Right up there with universities
> and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
> don't have the "proper credentials".
It's normal. Each closed group supports their status and defends itself
from intruders using whatever reasons. BTW, try practicing law or
medicine without proper credentials. And would you remind what is
exactly P.E. about?
VLV
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Let him work on the high current 20kV PSUs
Problem solved.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>o...@uakron.edu wrote:
>>> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
>>> have PHD's.
>>>
>>
>> They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
>> to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
>> with a PhD..
>>
>
>One of the huge mistakes in academia. Right up there with universities
>and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
>don't have the "proper credentials".
>
[snip]
Happened to me. In the early '70's there was a shortage of
technicians. I offered to teach FOR FREE at the local community
college. I was declined because _I_only_had_a_Masters_ :-)
Ken S. Tucker
I find Ph.d's know a lot about something specialized, sometimes
as mundane as 'navel lint, but can be naive out of their specialty
without being aware of it, since they conflate with the degree.
A caboose of alphabet behind your name means squat after a
few years in reality, wherein your true talent is exposed.
Ken
Charlie E.
That is part of where the AGW crowd got started. One guy gets a
theory, and publishes 'proof.' The next guy looking at it says,
"Well, the part in my field is all ca-ca, but this other stuff looks
compelling..." and so supports his collegue. The other guys, in the
other fields, all feel the same, but still support the original
premise since they can't refute the stuff outside their own field of
expertise. Also, since that second guy supports it, the stuff in his
area must be right...
Charlie
Jim Thompson
wrote:
And then there's the Slowman type that rubber-stamps _anything_
spouted by academia, even though he, himself, couldn't manage a
left-handed screw (purport that as you may ;-)
Joel Koltner
message news:8boje5hkbqm3fg6nc...@4ax.com...
> Happened to me. In the early '70's there was a shortage of
> technicians. I offered to teach FOR FREE at the local community
> college. I was declined because _I_only_had_a_Masters_ :-)
And your undergraduate degree must have come from a college known as a party
school that slackers attend to just squeak by without actually learning
anything too. :-)
If you started offering, e.g., week long design classes to industry I'm sure
you'd get plenty of takers. (Same for Win and Phil and Joerg and
others...) -- the going rate is ~$300-$500/day/student, which appears to make
it worthwhile for all involved if you can round up at least 5-10 students.
---Joel
Ian Bell
And they are the same guys who reckon AGW is real.
Cheers
Ian
Ian Bell
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
> <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
>
>> One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
>> about nothing.
>>
>> He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
>> board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
>> you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>>
>> Talk about not understanding what he knows.
>
> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
> have PHD's.
>
Yes. I joined the IEEE a year ago - big waste of money - I will not be
renewing.
Cheers
Ian
Phil Hobbs
It's particularly silly in the humanities. At one time, we expected
professors of English and philosophy and so on to be _learned_, i.e. to
actually know their subjects forwards and backwards.
At Oxford and Cambridge, English degrees were only introduced in the
1920s, and the requirements for a BA in English included being able to
read and write the English of all periods, including Anglo-Saxon and
Middle English. That went away in the 1960s, I think, along with a lot
of other good stuff.
Then the humanities got the 'originality' bug, which has been a huge
disaster for learning in general--you don't get tenure for agreeing with
your predecessor.
In engineering, the basic professional qualification is a bachelor's
degree, whereas in science, it's a doctorate. The narrow specialization
of Ph.D's in engineering is not typical of most scientific disciplines
IME. The skills are just different. I was fortunate to have a brother
who taught me how to solder at age 10, but then I went and did physics
and astronomy and math and all that stuff--I've never taken a circuits
course in my life, unless you count the jokey
RLC-circuits-for-scientists class they made us take as sophomores. (I
could have taught that course at the time.)
Spending 20 years at school won't make a fool into a wise man, but if
you have a few brain cells to rub together to begin with, it isn't
always wasted. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Michael A. Terrell
Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
> <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
>
> >One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> >about nothing.
> >
> >He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> >board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
> >you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
> >
> >Talk about not understanding what he knows.
>
> PhD == Piled Higher and Deeper
Pathetic, hopeless & depraved.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
Michael A. Terrell
Congress is practicing medicine. What are you going to do about it?
Michael A. Terrell
Someone told him to get bent, and he did.
Jim Thompson
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message news:8boje5hkbqm3fg6nc...@4ax.com...
>> Happened to me. In the early '70's there was a shortage of
>> technicians. I offered to teach FOR FREE at the local community
>> college. I was declined because _I_only_had_a_Masters_ :-)
>
>And your undergraduate degree must have come from a college known as a party
>school that slackers attend to just squeak by without actually learning
>anything too. :-)
Yep, MIT is well known as a party school. When I was a student, the
local liquor stores would deliver to the dorms, no ID checked.
Likewise the local Italian restaurants in Central Square... that's
where I learned to drink Chianti ;-)
>
>If you started offering, e.g., week long design classes to industry I'm sure
>you'd get plenty of takers. (Same for Win and Phil and Joerg and
>others...) -- the going rate is ~$300-$500/day/student, which appears to make
>it worthwhile for all involved if you can round up at least 5-10 students.
>
>---Joel
>
Hmmmmm! I used to write courses and teach for ICE (Integrated Circuit
Engineering).
Is there interest? Analog I/C design is almost a lost art.
Artemus
"Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote in message
news:3ltie51h6re5ebaom...@4ax.com...
> One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> about nothing.
>
> He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
> you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
> Talk about not understanding what he knows.
My favorite was proudly proclaimed by a MSEE with 3 months actual
hands on work experience. "I found the problem. The fuse is shorted."
Art
ChrisQ
>>
>
> Yes. I joined the IEEE a year ago - big waste of money - I will not be
> renewing.
Funny that. I joined mid year with a full year's subs and they still
expected another years worth at year end. Not good value at all. Not to
mention all the added charges for accessing online libraries of research
reports, which was one of the main reasons for joining in the first place.
Joined the aiaa recently. Same scenario in practice, but more
interesting and they keep in touch regularly. Hardly ever heard from the
ieee unless they were trying to sell me something...
Regards,
Chris
ChrisQ
>
> And then there's the Slowman type that rubber-stamps _anything_
> spouted by academia, even though he, himself, couldn't manage a
> left-handed screw (purport that as you may ;-)
>
I think the expression is "a left handed monkey wrench". At least from
the song I remember :-)...
Regards,
Chris
Jim Thompson
I joined IEEE in 1962. Quit around 1968 when they made the
Proceedings extra cost.
Rejoined 5 years ago when I could get the old farts rate ;-)
Still couldn't get papers from outside my member groups.
Inquired about some kind of senior membership that would allow
reasonable-cost access to the "digital" libraries.
Confiscatory fees.
So I let my IEEE membership lapse.
Worthless bunch of shit-heads.
Slowman fits right in.
So I white-list select @ieee.org addresses (remarkably few people use
@ieee.org addresses anymore), then kill file Slowman ;-)
ChrisQ
> I joined IEEE in 1962. Quit around 1968 when they made the
> Proceedings extra cost.
>
> Rejoined 5 years ago when I could get the old farts rate ;-)
>
> Still couldn't get papers from outside my member groups.
>
> Inquired about some kind of senior membership that would allow
> reasonable-cost access to the "digital" libraries.
>
> Confiscatory fees.
>
> So I let my IEEE membership lapse.
>
> Worthless bunch of shit-heads.
>
I just object to any self serving organisation that expects me to feel
gratefull for the high prices they are charging me.
Member organisations should be there to serve the members. Oherwise,
what is the point ?...
Regards,
Chris
Jim Thompson
I feel the same way about AARP. I'm dumping them this renewal (Part
D) period.
Bit Farmer
Well part of this is the Dilbert Principle: That is we all do stupid stuff.
The only reason society works is that we don't all do stupid stuff at the same time.
b. Farmer
Tim Wescott
> One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> about nothing.
>
> He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think you
> have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
> Talk about not understanding what he knows.
If I was _ever_ told not to connect an electrolytic capacitor backwards
it was by a lab technician interested in keeping his lab quiet and clean,
not by a prof. I know that I had to learn the lesson myself while
building a high-current power supply (good thing I had extra 'lytics).
Someone who starts out competent and gets a PhD can do amazing things.
Of course, someone who starts out _incompetent_ and gets a PhD will do
amazing things, too -- it's just a different sort of amazement.
Hammy
wrote:
They came around to my school trying to get us to join. I was to broke
at the time, now I'm glad I didn't waste my money.
Any extra cash went on booze and women ---> priorities.;)
brent
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde wrote:
> > One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> > about nothing.
>
> > He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> > board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think you
> > have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
> > Talk about not understanding what he knows.
>
> If I was _ever_ told not to connect an electrolytic capacitor backwards
> it was by a lab technician interested in keeping his lab quiet and clean,
> not by a prof. I know that I had to learn the lesson myself while
> building a high-current power supply (good thing I had extra 'lytics).
>
> Someone who starts out competent and gets a PhD can do amazing things.
>
Electromagnetics lab at Ohio State University. All , absolutely top
rate . I worked with some PhD types at Raytheon quite a few years
ago. they were top rate too.
I think the people on this board are looking to compare their circuit
design expertise with a PhD's circuit design expertise. Most PhD's do
not do circuit design, so it is not really a fair comparison.
But how about Barrie Gilbert from analog devices (He is a Dr. - it may
be honorary - he sure has earned that if it is - but I assume it is
regular PhD). His designs have made my life so much easier in many
cases. case in point , the low cost log amps that came out about 10
years ago. Absolutely breathtaking.
>
> Of course, someone who starts out _incompetent_ and gets a PhD will do
> amazing things, too -- it's just a different sort of amazement.
>
That is true too, but I think it is not as frequent as the circuit
designer crowd wishes it to be. Now if you want to rag on PhD's in
other fields like edumacation - ......
Ian Bell
Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
Cheers
Ian
krw
>One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
>about nothing.
>
>He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
>board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
>you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
>Talk about not understanding what he knows.
Many moons ago, when GE still made small appliances, they had a
troubleshooting tip for a toaster suggesting that if it didn't work
the user should try reversing the plug. Kinda cute, actually.
krw
>
>> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
>> have PHD's.
>>
>
>They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
>to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
>with a PhD..
>
>I'm dealing with a situation where a friend doesn't have the right
>"qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
>new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
>further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
>working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
>byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
>most postdocs in the field.
>
>So far no takers.
Right. Of course the academics weren't interested. It was useful and
it wasn't profitable (for them).
krw
wrote:
>o...@uakron.edu wrote:
>>> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
>>> have PHD's.
>>>
>>
>> They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
>> to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
>> with a PhD..
>>
>
>One of the huge mistakes in academia. Right up there with universities
>and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
>don't have the "proper credentials".
I taught in a college for three years a couple of decades ago. I once
asked the dean if I'd get the degree (MIS, at the time) if I taught
all the courses. That was the last semester I taught there. I was
profitable for them too. They paid me about the same, per credit
hour, as each student paid.
Jim Thompson
He doesn't know how to play the game... apply for a government grant
;-)
o...@uakron.edu
Steve
Clint Sharp
<6d989131-1280-4969...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
o...@uakron.edu writes
>What amazes me is the world still funds the PhD system.
>
>Steve
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
Clint Sharp
<bo...@bogus.bogus> writes
>My favorite was proudly proclaimed by a MSEE with 3 months actual
>hands on work experience. "I found the problem. The fuse is shorted."
fuses with a multimeter before someone was kind enough to point it out
to him. Of course the rotten git who told him the fuse was shorted was
sat there laughing.
>Art
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
Dave Platt
Ian Bell <ruffr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
>electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
>were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
>were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
>years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
>electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
>and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
Some do, but my impression is that it's much less common than in the
past.
Years ago, the only way for kids to gain access to electronics (and
the corresponding "wow factor") was to do as you've said - jump in and
start experimenting and building stuff. My own introduction was a
crystal-radio kit given to me as a 10th-birthday present by my
grandfather. Highly addictive.
These days, kids can stroll into a mall store, drop a week's allowance
on the counter, and buy an electronic gizmo that does far more than
anything they could build themselves (and is probably designed for a
saturation-level bells-and-whistles-and-WOW! neatness factor).
The thrill is gone, I'm afraid. Or, rather, access to the thrill is
much more widely distributed. Individual learning and experimentation
isn't the only path to playing with high-tech goodies available to
kids any more.
It's a shame, in a way.
It's not just electronics, either... whole aspects of self-directed
learning and experience seem to have atrophied, perhaps for similar
reasons. A few months ago I asked a school-teacher I'd just met, how
many of her middle-school students read books independently, for
pleasure.
Her response was to hold up thumb and forefinger, forming a "zero".
She then amended her response, saying "Well, there may be one or two."
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
VWWall
> In article <hcd9hm$qbk$1...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Ian Bell <ruffr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
>> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
>> were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
>> were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
>> years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
>> electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
>> and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
>
> Some do, but my impression is that it's much less common than in the
> past.
>
> Years ago, the only way for kids to gain access to electronics (and
> the corresponding "wow factor") was to do as you've said - jump in and
> start experimenting and building stuff. My own introduction was a
> crystal-radio kit given to me as a 10th-birthday present by my
> grandfather. Highly addictive.
>
> These days, kids can stroll into a mall store, drop a week's allowance
> on the counter, and buy an electronic gizmo that does far more than
> anything they could build themselves (and is probably designed for a
> saturation-level bells-and-whistles-and-WOW! neatness factor).
>
they can be repaired. You can't even get some of them apart! When you
can, there are specialized parts that cost more, (when you can find
them), than a new appliance.
I just opened a microwave oven. All the expensive parts, (transformer,
magnetron,etc.) were OK. The little control pc was bad. The
replacement part included the front panel and display and cost $72. I
bought the oven 3 years ago for $99.
> The thrill is gone, I'm afraid. Or, rather, access to the thrill is
> much more widely distributed. Individual learning and experimentation
> isn't the only path to playing with high-tech goodies available to
> kids any more.
>
> It's a shame, in a way.
>
> It's not just electronics, either... whole aspects of self-directed
> learning and experience seem to have atrophied, perhaps for similar
> reasons. A few months ago I asked a school-teacher I'd just met, how
> many of her middle-school students read books independently, for
> pleasure.
>
> Her response was to hold up thumb and forefinger, forming a "zero".
>
> She then amended her response, saying "Well, there may be one or two."
>
It's easier for them to watch TV.
--
Virg Wall, P.E.
(I had an Amateur radio license, 1st Class Radiotelephone, 2nd Class
Radiotelegraph and four years of Army Signal Corps experience and a BSEE
before I passed the P.E. exam.)
Les Cargill
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
> <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
>
>> One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
>> about nothing.
>>
>> He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
>> board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
>> you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>>
>> Talk about not understanding what he knows.
>
>
One of my all-time favorite PhDs was an EE first. he famously
says "I have never worked a day in my life." ( he's a
very good teacher, textbook writer and chair of the CS
department whence I gradulated ). Good prof. His textbooks
are all about 3/8" thick, lean and full.
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
>> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
>> have PHD's.
>>
>
> They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
> to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
> with a PhD..
>
> I'm dealing with a situation where a friend doesn't have the right
> "qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
> new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
> further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
> working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
> byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
> most postdocs in the field.
>
> So far no takers.
>
So why don't he just go ahead with it? Publish it in the form
of a working product.
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
Organizations that perpetuate themselves outlast those that don't.
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
Why would they? I caught the tail end of that. Once the market
became better at serving the desires of electronics consumers,
the money part of it no longer favored DIY.
I had the great fortune of relatives bringing me broken kit
to fix, under supervision. So can you do that with an iPod?
I had these great Radio Shack kits, where one would trap
discrete components under springs to make circuits. These were
designed to make electronics feel like anything but deferred
gratification.
Odd, saying this makes me feel spoilt. Privleged.
http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/
I remember the shock at the first Japanese solid state rig
they sent me. Nothing made sense. I could make neither hide nor hair of
it. It was optiomized for something I could not visually disentangle. It
wasn't built like a series of Wisconsin dairy farms, with PS
over here, preamp over here, power section there. It was , as is
the wont of island cultures, optimized for the use of materials
and it used hack beyond my ken.
So beyond that point, I stopped doing it. About the age of 15. There
was a death in the family that shifted the balance of power to
where that didn't happen any more. And I had other interests.
But there was a span of time where I would tell my father "Dad, I
need to use your orange stick" and that meant I needed to use that
and the meter and the whole schmeer. It was a ritual of
acculturation, an invite into the recesses of the family that
really meant something. People that got away from Hank Williams
and Steinbeck with a slide rule and perspiration.
I threw all that away and became a Software Weenie. As I remain to this
day. But I still know how to use an orange stick. If you can't find
one, a corn dog stick is pretty good. If you're really hard up, a
chopstick will do. 90% of WTF? problems are microphonic.
--
Les Cargill
mi...@sushi.com
> o...@uakron.edu wrote:
> >> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
> >> have PHD's.
>
> > They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
> > to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
> > with a PhD..
>
> and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
> don't have the "proper credentials".
>
> > "qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
> > new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
> > further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
> > working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
> > byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
> > most postdocs in the field.
>
> > So far no takers.
>
> it? You can format it just like a scientific publication and there's
> nothing the ivory tower guys can do against it.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.
Those IEEE papers are vetted before being published. I don't think it
would be a good idea to publish a paper without some sort of peer
review. [And still look what they publish!]
There is some whack job in South Africa that writes papers as if they
were publications. The theories he espouses are just plain
scientifically without merit.
I think self publication has merit if you have some trusted engineers
to review the paper. You generally need this anyway since what is
obvious to you may not be clear to someone reading the paper without
your background.
Incidentally, any paper that have "novel" in the title is highly
suspect.
David L. Jones
Not really, there are just far too many cooler distractions for kids these
days. Before you had consumer computers, the internet, video games, mobile
phones etc etc if you had "the knack" or interest in technical stuff then
hobby electronics was the obvious natural progression. Now it's not obvious
any more and is obscured by all the other techo things kids can take up
instead.
But surprisingly it's making a comeback of sorts through the so called
"hackers" and "makers", perpetuated by Make magazine and various hcked
gadget forums and the like. 5-10 years ago this area didn't really exist,
but now it's cool again to hack stuff, a good lot of it electronics
oriented.
Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
Bill Sloman
> > Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
> > have PHD's.
>
> They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
> to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
> with a PhD..
It certainly isn't a formal requirement. Organising your message into
the right format, and tying it back to earlier, relevant, published
work does require that you've read a few scientific papers and
understand why they are put together in the way that they are. It took
me a while to get it right, and - thinking back about the training I
got during my Ph.D. - I could have used more training in that area.
> I'm dealing with a situation where a friend doesn't have the right
> "qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
> new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
> further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
> working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
> byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
> most postdocs in the field.
Tell me more - I've got academic friends, and non-academic friends who
publish in peer-reviewed journals. One of us might be able to help.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
> o...@uakron.edu wrote:
> >> Not surprising.Have you read any IEEE papers most of those pea brains
> >> have PHD's.
>
> > They have to have a doctorate or a masters, or your not really allowed
> > to publish in most refereed journals, unless your a student working
> > with a PhD..
>
It would be if it were true.
> Right up there with universities
> and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
> don't have the "proper credentials".
>
> > I'm dealing with a situation where a friend doesn't have the right
> > "qualifications" to publish. He came up with something earthshaking,
> > new, useful, and novel, patented it, licensed it etc, Now wants to
> > further it along, and publish what he found. His condition for
> > working with the pointy haired crowd, simply his name is on the
> > byline, he'd even fund the research. He knows the science better then
> > most postdocs in the field.
>
> > So far no takers.
>
> Why not self-publish it on a web site and make sure search engines find
> it? You can format it just like a scientific publication and there's
> nothing the ivory tower guys can do against it.
Getting the format right is tricky. In the - limited - refereeing I've
done for "Measurement Science and Technology" I've run into a lot of
graduate student and post-docs who haven't remotely mastered the
format - the content was mostly unimpressive as well, so it might
just have been a side-effect of stupidity.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
wrote:
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:03:16 -0700, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
> > wrote:
>
> > >On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:50:23 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"
> > ><dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
>
> > >>On Oct 29, 4:09 am, Raveninghorde <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
> > >>> One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> > >>> about nothing.
>
> > >>> He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> > >>> board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
> > >>> you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
> > >>> Talk about not understanding what he knows.
>
> > >>as mundane as 'navel lint, but can be naive out of their specialty
> > >>without being aware of it, since they conflate with the degree.
> > >>A caboose of alphabet behind your name means squat after a
> > >>few years in reality, wherein your true talent is exposed.
> > >>Ken
>
> > >That is part of where the AGW crowd got started. One guy gets a
> > >theory, and publishes 'proof.' The next guy looking at it says,
> > >"Well, the part in my field is all ca-ca, but this other stuff looks
> > >compelling..." and so supports his collegue. The other guys, in the
> > >other fields, all feel the same, but still support the original
> > >premise since they can't refute the stuff outside their own field of
> > >expertise. Also, since that second guy supports it, the stuff in his
> > >area must be right...
>
> > >Charlie
>
> > And then there's the Slowman type that rubber-stamps _anything_
> > spouted by academia, even though he, himself, couldn't manage a
> > left-handed screw (purport that as you may ;-)
>
> Someone told him to get bent, and he did.
Michael A. Terrell, brown-beaking for for all he is worth (which isn't
much).
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson strikes again. I'm actually a
useful odd-jobs man, and do carpentry, plumbing, and the odd bit of
household wiring. I am left-handed, and do understand differential
screws.
If Jim had the wits left to let him think, he might wonder how a guy
with a Ph.D. in chemistry got to know enough electronics to have a
couple of patents and cited publications in the area.
But Jim really is away with the fairies.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Raveninghorde
Joel Koltner
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:b40ke5ljn7ts1bkuj...@4ax.com...
> Yep, MIT is well known as a party school. When I was a student, the
> local liquor stores would deliver to the dorms, no ID checked.
Nice!
> Is there interest? Analog I/C design is almost a lost art.
Here's one dude who's teaching it:
http://www.aicdesign.org/upcomingcourse.html -- $1800 for a week with him. (I
can't say I know who he is -- although I probably should :-) --... seems like
he has a book out too:
http://www.amazon.com/Analog-Circuit-Design-Phillip-Allen/dp/0195116445 ).
Several people at work here have taken Besser classes:
http://www.besserassociates.com/ -- quality is fine, although their prices
tend to be on the high end.
---Joel
Jim Thompson
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message news:b40ke5ljn7ts1bkuj...@4ax.com...
>> Yep, MIT is well known as a party school. When I was a student, the
>> local liquor stores would deliver to the dorms, no ID checked.
>
>Nice!
In Massachusetts, epitome of the church-police state, no less ;-)
Reminds me... back then, 1958+, it was illegal to sell prophylactics.
However a discrete inquiry at a drug store got me an offer for a good
price on a gross ;-)
>
>> Is there interest? Analog I/C design is almost a lost art.
>
>Here's one dude who's teaching it:
>http://www.aicdesign.org/upcomingcourse.html -- $1800 for a week with him. (I
>can't say I know who he is -- although I probably should :-) --... seems like
>he has a book out too:
>http://www.amazon.com/Analog-Circuit-Design-Phillip-Allen/dp/0195116445 ).
>
>Several people at work here have taken Besser classes:
>http://www.besserassociates.com/ -- quality is fine, although their prices
>tend to be on the high end.
>
>---Joel
>
So it looks like the basics are already covered.
I've contemplated, more for amusement than anything else, selling "A
Week with the Master", look over my shoulder while I do a real design,
but I'm sure there'd be no takers ;-)
It would take a student already with some I/C design experience to
keep up. But, from what I note of the lurkers, the handful who know
I/C design are already experts themselves.
(And the rest are mouthy know-nothings ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
With Half My Brain Tied Behind My Back
Still More Clever Than Mr.Prissy Pants
Joel Koltner
news:hcdmr0$ia4$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> I had the great fortune of relatives bringing me broken kit
> to fix, under supervision. So can you do that with an iPod?
Perhaps not as "well" -- clearly the average kid isn't going to have anything
approaching the means to, e.g., swap a BGA component -- but there's still some
opportunity for learning in replacing broken headphone jacks, cracked LCD
modules, dead hard drives from being dropped, etc.
> I had these great Radio Shack kits, where one would trap
> discrete components under springs to make circuits. These were
> designed to make electronics feel like anything but deferred
> gratification.
Similar items are still around, e.g., http://www.elenco.com/snapcircuits.html
(even Radio Shack has a few kits like that). And microcontroller development
kits (from, e.g., Parallax) are very common today if you're interested in
digital electronics. In fact, personally I believe that electronics is far
more accessible, cheaper, and easier than ever today... it's just that the
interest in it -- particularly analog design -- has largely waned due to the
"wow" factor of iPhones, Wiis, and PCs.
---Joel
Joel Koltner
> local liquor stores would deliver to the dorms, no ID checked.
Sounds like a policy aimed at rapidly increasing the population. :-)
I didn't realize that prophylactics had ever been illegal. Sheesh...
> I've contemplated, more for amusement than anything else, selling "A
> Week with the Master", look over my shoulder while I do a real design,
> but I'm sure there'd be no takers ;-)
I would guess there's a bit of a time problem there in that in an 8 hour day
there's perhaps an hour of "really good tricks" and 7 hours of, "now I hit
'simulate' on PSpice, and now I'm going to go grab a glass of wine and check
our what the horned owls have eaten for dinner while it simulates for the next
10 minutes..." ?
Something like a "Highlight of A Week With the Master" on DVD might sell quite
well... Randy Rhea sort of headed that direction with some of his DVDs (e.g.,
http://www.scitechpublishing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=338) in
that he'd often be working through a sample design while simultaneously try to
present "the basics" -- but in your case I like the idea of working through
real designs and going with the assumption that the viewer knows how to bias a
transistor for a given transconductance, how a basic current mirror works,
etc.
And think of the "satisfaction" you'd get if you noticed one of your DVDs
being ordered from Nijmegen... :-)
---Joel
Jim Thompson
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message news:dd3me5hkur1j5hri4...@4ax.com...
>> local liquor stores would deliver to the dorms, no ID checked.
>> Reminds me... back then, 1958+, it was illegal to sell prophylactics.
>
>Sounds like a policy aimed at rapidly increasing the population. :-)
>
>I didn't realize that prophylactics had ever been illegal. Sheesh...
At that time the Catholic Church had Massa2shits (and the Boston
Police Department) in a throttle hold.
So badly that the TV showing of "Biography of a Bookie Joint"
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/05/25/publiceye/entry2851759.shtml
was blocked on all Massachusetts' TV stations.
(I rigged an antenna pointing toward Providence to see it anyhow...
from our apartment, actually the third floor of an old house on
Magazine Street near Memorial Drive ;-)
I was also arrested and cited for working on Sunday... in Cambridge,
wiring my landlord's garage (formally a carriage house) for lighting,
in exchange for a month's rent.
>
>> I've contemplated, more for amusement than anything else, selling "A
>> Week with the Master", look over my shoulder while I do a real design,
>> but I'm sure there'd be no takers ;-)
>
>I would guess there's a bit of a time problem there in that in an 8 hour day
>there's perhaps an hour of "really good tricks" and 7 hours of, "now I hit
>'simulate' on PSpice, and now I'm going to go grab a glass of wine and check
>our what the horned owls have eaten for dinner while it simulates for the next
>10 minutes..." ?
Possibly, but not likely... I usually don't imbibe until around 6-7 in
the evening... when I turn on O'Reilly ;-)
While simulations run I doodle ideas on paper... I go thru LOTS of
quadrille pads ;-)
>
>Something like a "Highlight of A Week With the Master" on DVD might sell quite
>well... Randy Rhea sort of headed that direction with some of his DVDs (e.g.,
>http://www.scitechpublishing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=338) in
>that he'd often be working through a sample design while simultaneously try to
>present "the basics" -- but in your case I like the idea of working through
>real designs and going with the assumption that the viewer knows how to bias a
>transistor for a given transconductance, how a basic current mirror works,
>etc.
>
>And think of the "satisfaction" you'd get if you noticed one of your DVDs
>being ordered from Nijmegen... :-)
>
>---Joel
>
Sno-o-o-o-ort ;-)
Hmmmm? I suppose I could release a CD/DVD of schematics, with
explanations... Win's stuff seems to sell well. I have done literally
100's of chip designs, and the latest one was 70+ pages of drawings
;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Joel Koltner
message
> wiring my landlord's garage (formally a carriage house) for lighting,
> in exchange for a month's rent.
Amazing. Truly amazing...
I think it popped up here a couple months ago, but in case you didn't see it,
this little take on HP's garage is good:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/garage/garage.htm
> Possibly, but not likely... I usually don't imbibe until around 6-7 in
> the evening... when I turn on O'Reilly ;-)
O'Reilly is a pretty reasonable/sane guy; not bad at all to listen to, and I
think there's more "substance" than some of the more popular guys (on both
sides... e.g., Rush Limbaugh or Al Frankin... And whereas O'Reilly was
willing to go on Stephen Colbert's show, I can't imagine Rush would visit,
say, John Stewart...)
> Hmmmm? I suppose I could release a CD/DVD of schematics, with
> explanations...
Absolutely, I'd certainly buy a copy.
---Joel
Kral
> One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
> about nothing.
>
> He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
> board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
> you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
> Talk about not understanding what he knows.
Intellectual:
A man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows.
Dwight D Eisenhower
Could also apply to PHDs
Jim Thompson
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message
>> I was also arrested and cited for working on Sunday... in Cambridge,
>> wiring my landlord's garage (formally a carriage house) for lighting,
>> in exchange for a month's rent.
>
>Amazing. Truly amazing...
>
>I think it popped up here a couple months ago, but in case you didn't see it,
>this little take on HP's garage is good:
>http://www.hpmuseum.org/garage/garage.htm
>
>> Possibly, but not likely... I usually don't imbibe until around 6-7 in
>> the evening... when I turn on O'Reilly ;-)
>
>O'Reilly is a pretty reasonable/sane guy; not bad at all to listen to, and I
>think there's more "substance" than some of the more popular guys (on both
>sides... e.g., Rush Limbaugh or Al Frankin... And whereas O'Reilly was
>willing to go on Stephen Colbert's show, I can't imagine Rush would visit,
>say, John Stewart...)
O'Reilly appeared on "The View" today... hilarious, costumed as Count
Dracula ;-)
>
>> Hmmmm? I suppose I could release a CD/DVD of schematics, with
>> explanations...
>
>Absolutely, I'd certainly buy a copy.
>
>---Joel
>
How much $:-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I used to do ASIC designs using only pencil paper and a slide rule
I never even had a calculator until I was 33 years old
Tim Williams
> One of the huge mistakes in academia. Right up there with universities
> and colleges not allowing practicing engineers to teach because they
> don't have the "proper credentials".
Ah, there are a number of professionals here, actually, at Milwaukee
School of Engineering. Freshmen are recommended to address their
instructors "Professor" when in doubt, as they aren't necessarily
Doctors.
Still, you have to weigh the fact that those are the people willing to
teach instead of only work, so maybe it's not as good as it
sounds. ;-)
Tim
Tim Williams
> Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
> were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
> were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
> years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
> electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
> and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
Nope, they really don't.
I got to chat with the school's EE chair once. He said, about 30
years ago, people like me (kids who stuck screwdrivers into radios)
were common (he was one himself), so there was a lot of curriculum
they could test out of, or heck maybe even in those days it was just
"you know ohm's law? sure, you can skip this prerequisite".
But nowadays, that's a lot less common (probably less than 10%), and
the certifications are more stringent, and the bureaucracy more
impersonal, so I'm doomed to sit in classes alongside students who
don't know the right end of the soldering iron.
Not that the classes are very useful anyway. I'm in a control systems
class right now. I still don't know what the hell 1/(s+2) is. I know
full well what 1 / (s + 1/RC) is, but see, that's not what they
teach. It's just more numbers, run the algebra and find the answer.
Who cares which way it goes with respect to something like frequency.
Academia is all about abstraction, because it's an escape from
reality, and algorism (Laplace transforms, etc.) because it's easy.
No one teaches practical stuff, and no one teaches the holistic point
of view.
Tim
krw
<tmor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 29, 6:47�pm, Ian Bell <ruffreco...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
>> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
>> were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
>> were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
>> years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
>> electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
>> and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
>
>Nope, they really don't.
>
>I got to chat with the school's EE chair once. He said, about 30
>years ago, people like me (kids who stuck screwdrivers into radios)
>were common (he was one himself), so there was a lot of curriculum
>they could test out of, or heck maybe even in those days it was just
>"you know ohm's law? sure, you can skip this prerequisite".
No money in the degree if they allow you to test out of courses.
>But nowadays, that's a lot less common (probably less than 10%), and
>the certifications are more stringent, and the bureaucracy more
>impersonal, so I'm doomed to sit in classes alongside students who
>don't know the right end of the soldering iron.
In fairness, most will never need to touch a soldering iron. I've
worked with many who haven't into any sort of lab since college. There
is a lot more to EE, these days, than PCBs.
>Not that the classes are very useful anyway. I'm in a control systems
>class right now. I still don't know what the hell 1/(s+2) is. I know
>full well what 1 / (s + 1/RC) is, but see, that's not what they
>teach. It's just more numbers, run the algebra and find the answer.
That is an issue. Laplace should be taught after there is a sound
circuits understanding. They never taught Gregg before English.
>Who cares which way it goes with respect to something like frequency.
>Academia is all about abstraction, because it's an escape from
>reality, and algorism (Laplace transforms, etc.) because it's easy.
>No one teaches practical stuff, and no one teaches the holistic point
>of view.
Nah, an "algorism" is:
"I'm always right, no matter how the facts turn out."
100WattDarkSucker
>"I'm always right, no matter how the facts turn out."
Sounds like the KRW mind set to me.
krw
Even if true, it beats *being* AlwaysWrong, hands down.
100WattDarkSucker
I guess you'll have to perform a complete reversal of your past twenty
years then.
Jim Thompson
Some day we will seek out Nymbecile, show him multiple sheets of paper
listing his ignorant statements, then drag him behind a pick-up truck.
In the meantime, krw, I must add you to my file of...
(From: troll-feeder) & ((troll-in-reference)|(troll-in-body))
pairs... sorry ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
On Halloween, Frighten a Congressman
Costume Yourself as a Voting Machine
John Larkin
>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:56:00 -0700 (PDT), Tim Williams
><tmor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 29, 6:47�pm, Ian Bell <ruffreco...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
>>> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
>>> were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
>>> were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
>>> years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
>>> electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
>>> and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
>>
>>Nope, they really don't.
>>
>>I got to chat with the school's EE chair once. He said, about 30
>>years ago, people like me (kids who stuck screwdrivers into radios)
>>were common (he was one himself), so there was a lot of curriculum
>>they could test out of, or heck maybe even in those days it was just
>>"you know ohm's law? sure, you can skip this prerequisite".
>
>No money in the degree if they allow you to test out of courses.
So skip the basics and take advanced courses.
>
>>But nowadays, that's a lot less common (probably less than 10%), and
>>the certifications are more stringent, and the bureaucracy more
>>impersonal, so I'm doomed to sit in classes alongside students who
>>don't know the right end of the soldering iron.
>
>In fairness, most will never need to touch a soldering iron. I've
>worked with many who haven't into any sort of lab since college. There
>is a lot more to EE, these days, than PCBs.
This is excellent. Lots of ancient instrumentation is failing or out
of production, and there are few people who can design next-gen gear.
Most of the kiddies are useless around real electricity [1], and the
big aerospace and scientific instrument companies are less and less
eager to do stuff in-house.
>
>>Not that the classes are very useful anyway. I'm in a control systems
>>class right now. I still don't know what the hell 1/(s+2) is. I know
>>full well what 1 / (s + 1/RC) is, but see, that's not what they
>>teach. It's just more numbers, run the algebra and find the answer.
Some academics want to abstract the math away from real circuits.
That's why it's so good to come into these classes with some real
circuit experience and instincts. Then lightbulbs turn on for you
while the rest of the class doesn't notice.
But most circuit designers can learn all they need about control
theory in one day.
>
>That is an issue. Laplace should be taught after there is a sound
>circuits understanding. They never taught Gregg before English.
Spice has eliminated the need for most analytic solutions to control
loops. Most good loops are nonlinear anyhow, so were never solvable
analytically. The best combo is good instincts and LT Spice.
John
[1] most of the young EEs I meet are *afraid* of electricity.
Archimedes' Lever
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>
>Some day we will seek out Archimedes,
You had better watch how you word your utter horseshit, boy.
RST Engineering - JIm
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>
> Happened to me. In the early '70's there was a shortage of
> technicians. I offered to teach FOR FREE at the local community
> college. I was declined because _I_only_had_a_Masters_ :-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
Dunno what you did wrong, Jimbo. I've been teaching Electronics Technology
at the local community college since the early 1980s on a BS-Physics.
Jim
RST Engineering - JIm
"Ian Bell" <ruffr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hcd9hm$qbk$1...@localhost.localdomain...
>
> Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they were
> already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I were
> selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven years old.
> By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every electronics
> book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam, and built dozens
> of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
>
>
> Ian
Dunno. I can only tell you that I offer my students a two letter grade
bonus if they achieve a General ham license during the semester and in
thirty years, not one taker.
(or if already a General, Extra.)
Jim
Archimedes' Lever
It was probably his attitude.
That "everyone but me is a leftist weenie" mentality is pretty
blatantly apparent. Probably more so in person.
I would not want to be taught by such a twit either.
They probably called some of his former employers and got a handle of
his "people skills"... or lack thereof.
Ken S. Tucker
wrote:
> "Ian Bell" <ruffreco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
The 10,000 hours = 5 years x 50 weeks x 40 hours/week and
then write your own ticket, if your nose is clean, is rule of thumb.
I suppose it's a case of surviving, but I've been fired a few times,
but don't take getting fired personal, it's a forced upward mobility.
Ken
krw
<100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:52:12 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:43:41 -0700, 100WattDarkSucker
>><100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:38:25 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"I'm always right, no matter how the facts turn out."
>>>
>>> Sounds like the KRW mind set to me.
>>
>>Even if true, it beats *being* AlwaysWrong, hands down.
>
>
> I guess you'll have to perform a complete reversal of your past twenty
>years then.
You don't read very well, do you AlwaysWrong?
krw
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:52:12 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:43:41 -0700, 100WattDarkSucker
>><100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:38:25 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"I'm always right, no matter how the facts turn out."
>>>
>>> Sounds like the KRW mind set to me.
>>
>>Even if true, it beats *being* AlwaysWrong, hands down.
>
>Some day we will seek out Nymbecile, show him multiple sheets of paper
>listing his ignorant statements, then drag him behind a pick-up truck.
>
>In the meantime, krw, I must add you to my file of...
>
> (From: troll-feeder) & ((troll-in-reference)|(troll-in-body))
>
>pairs... sorry ;-)
No problem. Glad I can be of service. ;-)
krw
<jjSNIP...@highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:38:25 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:56:00 -0700 (PDT), Tim Williams
>><tmor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 29, 6:47�pm, Ian Bell <ruffreco...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
>>>> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
>>>> were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
>>>> were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
>>>> years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
>>>> electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
>>>> and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
>>>
>>>Nope, they really don't.
>>>
>>>I got to chat with the school's EE chair once. He said, about 30
>>>years ago, people like me (kids who stuck screwdrivers into radios)
>>>were common (he was one himself), so there was a lot of curriculum
>>>they could test out of, or heck maybe even in those days it was just
>>>"you know ohm's law? sure, you can skip this prerequisite".
>>
>>No money in the degree if they allow you to test out of courses.
>
>So skip the basics and take advanced courses.
Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
>>>But nowadays, that's a lot less common (probably less than 10%), and
>>>the certifications are more stringent, and the bureaucracy more
>>>impersonal, so I'm doomed to sit in classes alongside students who
>>>don't know the right end of the soldering iron.
>>
>>In fairness, most will never need to touch a soldering iron. I've
>>worked with many who haven't into any sort of lab since college. There
>>is a lot more to EE, these days, than PCBs.
>
>This is excellent. Lots of ancient instrumentation is failing or out
>of production, and there are few people who can design next-gen gear.
>Most of the kiddies are useless around real electricity [1], and the
>big aerospace and scientific instrument companies are less and less
>eager to do stuff in-house.
I'm not disagreeing, just stating the way it is. Being able to do
this work has worked out well for me.
>>>Not that the classes are very useful anyway. I'm in a control systems
>>>class right now. I still don't know what the hell 1/(s+2) is. I know
>>>full well what 1 / (s + 1/RC) is, but see, that's not what they
>>>teach. It's just more numbers, run the algebra and find the answer.
>
>Some academics want to abstract the math away from real circuits.
>That's why it's so good to come into these classes with some real
>circuit experience and instincts. Then lightbulbs turn on for you
>while the rest of the class doesn't notice.
>
>But most circuit designers can learn all they need about control
>theory in one day.
>
>>
>>That is an issue. Laplace should be taught after there is a sound
>>circuits understanding. They never taught Gregg before English.
>
>Spice has eliminated the need for most analytic solutions to control
>loops. Most good loops are nonlinear anyhow, so were never solvable
>analytically. The best combo is good instincts and LT Spice.
Spice isn't good for building instincts, however. It too easily
becomes a crutch and makes people believe that they're really
standing.
>John
>
>[1] most of the young EEs I meet are *afraid* of electricity.
Haven't seen that so much, but I have been tutoring one student who
has a real problem with algebra.
100WattDarkSucker
Take your lobotomized brain elsewhere, chump.
Archimedes' Lever
>Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
Nothing a lobotomized retard like you could handle.
krw
<100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:20:47 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:00:23 -0700, 100WattDarkSucker
>><100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:52:12 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:43:41 -0700, 100WattDarkSucker
>>>><100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:38:25 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"I'm always right, no matter how the facts turn out."
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like the KRW mind set to me.
>>>>
>>>>Even if true, it beats *being* AlwaysWrong, hands down.
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess you'll have to perform a complete reversal of your past twenty
>>>years then.
>>
>>You don't read very well, do you AlwaysWrong?
>
> Take your lobotomized brain elsewhere, chump.
Sorry DimBulb, I'm here just for you.
krw
Nothing you've ever taken, clearly.
Archimedes' Lever
Currently working in the Ku band, as well as many others. You?
Clearly, you have spent years making shit up.
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:02:55 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:49:25 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
>><OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:27:34 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
>>>
>>> Nothing a lobotomized retard like you could handle.
>>
>>Nothing you've ever taken, clearly.
>
> Currently working in the Ku band, as well as many others. You?
You're currently working in the water closet with a mop, Dimmie.
> Clearly, you have spent years making shit up.
Making things, yes, while you're mopping shit up.
Michael A. Terrell
OOOOHHH!!! Dimmie has learned a new word!
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
Archimedes' Lever
>while you're mopping shit up.
As it relates to this forum, you are absolutely correct.
None of it is mine, however. I guess that you are immune to the stench.
ChrisQ
> Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson strikes again. I'm actually a
> useful odd-jobs man, and do carpentry, plumbing, and the odd bit of
> household wiring. I am left-handed, and do understand differential
> screws.
>
You know I don't take sides :-), but I agree, multidisciplinary skills
are very usefull and are in decline as everything gets more specialised.
I think it's partly a generational thing as the immediate post ww2
generation had to make do and mend everything. I still do all the
electrical, radio, tv, carpentry and even building work around the house
and that's besides interests in mechanical engineering and a core skill
set of software engineering coming from an electronics background. It's
surprising how usefull it can be in all sorts of ways.
I don't think you can generalise about phd's either. I've met some who
knew nothing outside their specialist field, head in the clouds and
others who were some of the most switched on people i've ever met. Some
of the EE graduates i've worked with in the past could hardly solder two
wires together and had no interest at all in the job outside work. I
find that depressing, as to be really good at anything, you need to have
a passion for the subject and have a very inquisitive mind. The lack of
scientific curiosity and the general dumbing down of everything will be
the undoing of our civilisation. Nearly everything we come into contact
with on a daily basis depends on science or engineering in some way...
Regards,
Chris
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:09:57 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>while you're mopping shit up.
>
>
> As it relates to this forum, you are absolutely correct.
Right, Dimmie. I'm not AlwaysWrong. You are.
> None of it is mine, however. I guess that you are immune to the stench.
You are shit, DimBulb. Unfortunately, there isn't a mop big enough.
Charlie E.
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:23:05 -0800, John Larkin
><jjSNIP...@highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>So skip the basics and take advanced courses.
>
>Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
>
Well, twenty years ago (Wow! how time flies!) when I decided to go
back to school and get my EE degree, I learned a lot of interesting
lessons.
While I had been a hobbiest since I was a kid, my bachelors degree was
in psychology. I know that I didn't know a lot of the math and such,
so went back to get a second bachelors in EE. I moved from California
to New Mexico just to get into a program, and in my first class
learned my first lesson.
You don't need a bachelors in EE to get a Masters in EE.
Because of that lesson, I inquired back in California, and a year
later started at UC Santa Barbara in the Masters program.
I started taking a lot of the basic circuits and control theory
classes, and found myself on academic probation. In the masters
program, you need to keep a 3.0 gpa, but in those basic theory
classes, they graded to a 2.0 average. These were also the 'weed'
classes, where they TRIED to get students to fail, by heaping so much
make work on them that they would be overwhelmed. My problem - I
didn't do all the homework and make it look spiffy and nice, I just
did what I needed to learn the subject. I had A's and B's on all the
tests. In my second semester, the T.A.s taught me the second lesson:
When there is a bachelor level course, and a master's level course,
take the Master's level course.
In the BS course, they go into excruciating detail on the basics, as
well as heaping loads of meaningless homework on the poor students. In
the Master's class, they mention the important aspects of the basics
in teh first couple of weeks, and then get right to business. The
Master's courses also tended to be more real world, with actual
applications and circuits. If you could keep up, they were a lot more
fun. they also graded to a B curve, not a C curve!
The final lesson was, choose your professors carefully. I took
classes from many professors, but learned after almost flunking the
second class in a row from one professor, that we were not on the same
page. I had the same material from two different professors, and from
him it always sounded like greek, while I grok'd the material
instantly from the other. Sometimes, the learning chemistry is just
not there.
Charlie
krw
wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:27:34 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:23:05 -0800, John Larkin
>><jjSNIP...@highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>>So skip the basics and take advanced courses.
>>
>>Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
>>
>
>Well, twenty years ago (Wow! how time flies!) when I decided to go
>back to school and get my EE degree, I learned a lot of interesting
>lessons.
Make that thirty-five. ;-)
>While I had been a hobbiest since I was a kid, my bachelors degree was
>in psychology. I know that I didn't know a lot of the math and such,
>so went back to get a second bachelors in EE. I moved from California
>to New Mexico just to get into a program, and in my first class
>learned my first lesson.
>
>You don't need a bachelors in EE to get a Masters in EE.
Nope. You should have shot your advisor.
>Because of that lesson, I inquired back in California, and a year
>later started at UC Santa Barbara in the Masters program.
>
>I started taking a lot of the basic circuits and control theory
>classes, and found myself on academic probation. In the masters
>program, you need to keep a 3.0 gpa, but in those basic theory
>classes, they graded to a 2.0 average. These were also the 'weed'
>classes, where they TRIED to get students to fail, by heaping so much
>make work on them that they would be overwhelmed. My problem - I
>didn't do all the homework and make it look spiffy and nice, I just
>did what I needed to learn the subject. I had A's and B's on all the
>tests. In my second semester, the T.A.s taught me the second lesson:
All of our "flunk out" courses were in the other disciplines. In
particular, the years I was there it was Chemistry, Math, and the
third semester of Physics (where they even admitted they wanted 20% to
fail). In previous years the "flunk out" courses were Theoretical and
Applied Mechanics (YOY do EEs need to learn how to crush concrete?),
Thermodynamics, Statics, and Dynamics, all of which had been dropped
as requirements by the time I graduated.
>When there is a bachelor level course, and a master's level course,
>take the Master's level course.
Not having been in the graduate college, I couldn't take them but that
was well known by all, at the time. Actually, our EE department pretty
much graded on the 'B' (4.0 in our case) curve. By the time the
Junior year rolled around they'd gotten rid of enough.
>In the BS course, they go into excruciating detail on the basics, as
>well as heaping loads of meaningless homework on the poor students. In
>the Master's class, they mention the important aspects of the basics
>in teh first couple of weeks, and then get right to business. The
>Master's courses also tended to be more real world, with actual
>applications and circuits. If you could keep up, they were a lot more
>fun. they also graded to a B curve, not a C curve!
I never turned in homework.
>The final lesson was, choose your professors carefully. I took
>classes from many professors, but learned after almost flunking the
>second class in a row from one professor, that we were not on the same
>page. I had the same material from two different professors, and from
>him it always sounded like greek, while I grok'd the material
>instantly from the other. Sometimes, the learning chemistry is just
>not there.
I knew all about that from day one. I worked for the EE department as
a lab technician (the only bene of being an EE prof's kid) so was able
to be first in line for the EE sections I wanted. The first time I
took the semiconductor physics course I dropped it before I could fail
it. My advisor (Ben Streetman, who wrote the book) wasn't pleased
because it was a required course, but I forced him to sign the
paperwork. The next semester I took it again from him and had no
trouble with the course, at all. He was known as a tougher grader
too, but it's far easier to get a grade if you have a clue what's
going on, too. ;-) The first prof was an old geezer (one of my
father's buds, in fact) just waiting to retire. What a total loss.
Rich Grise
> "Ian Bell" <ruffr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
>> were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
>> were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
>> years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
>> electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
>> and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
>
> bonus if they achieve a General ham license during the semester and in
> thirty years, not one taker.
>
> (or if already a General, Extra.)
Does the General still include 13 WPM Morse code? That was the stopper
for me.
Thanks,
Rich
Dave Platt
Rich Grise <rich...@example.net> wrote:
>> Dunno. I can only tell you that I offer my students a two letter grade
>> bonus if they achieve a General ham license during the semester and in
>> thirty years, not one taker.
>>
>> (or if already a General, Extra.)
>
>Does the General still include 13 WPM Morse code? That was the stopper
>for me.
There is no longer any Morse code requirement, for any amateur radio
license class. It was 5 WPM (for both General and Extra) up until
around 18 months ago, and was entirely eliminated at that time.
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Jamie
There is no longer a (CW) code requirement.
But with practice, it don't take me long to get back
to 30 WPM.. :)
JosephKK
<raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
>One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
>about nothing.
>
>He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
>board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
>you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
>
>Talk about not understanding what he knows.
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job.
JosephKK
<lcarg...@comcast.net> wrote:
>ChrisQ wrote:
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> I joined IEEE in 1962. Quit around 1968 when they made the
>>> Proceedings extra cost.
>>> Rejoined 5 years ago when I could get the old farts rate ;-)
>>>
>>> Still couldn't get papers from outside my member groups.
>>>
>>> Inquired about some kind of senior membership that would allow
>>> reasonable-cost access to the "digital" libraries.
>>>
>>> Confiscatory fees.
>>>
>>> So I let my IEEE membership lapse.
>>>
>>> Worthless bunch of shit-heads.
>>>
>>
>> I just object to any self serving organisation that expects me to feel
>> gratefull for the high prices they are charging me.
>>
>> Member organisations should be there to serve the members. Oherwise,
>> what is the point ?...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chris
>
>
>Organizations that perpetuate themselves outlast those that don't.
However, raping your practitioner members (academic members are
normally paid for by the institution they work for) with excessive
fees is way counterproductive in perpetuating them selves as a
practice oriented organization. Oops my bad, the IEEE is not such any
more.
Greegor
You think you're smarter than a cadre of over 100 EE's?
You also think you're modest, right?