Zob's Thoughts on Obsessive-Compulsive Collectors
Often-Wrong Zobovor
wait. That was somebody else.
One of the reasons I haven't posted lately is because just about everything
I've been tempted to say is some caustic, negative remark about how much
Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame wars,
and generally not be particularly uplifting. Then I got to wondering why I
should stifle my comments and basically say nothing for the duration of
however-long-Transformers-is-going-to-suck. That could take years. (And this
place was never alt.toys.transformers.shiny-happy-robots to begin with.) So, I
decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of bottling it all up,
to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of bitching that
some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed and marketed to my
exact specifications. I think that's perfectly justifiable, don't you?
I've devoted a lot of mental energy of late to pondering why I got into
collecting toys and whether the rewards outweigh the downsides. It's my
suspicion that most collectors probably aren't aware on a conscious level of
why they buy children's toys. While it seems to be gaining some social
acceptance, the fact remains that this compulsion remains uncommon and unusual.
Naturally, not everybody does it for the same reason, but I think there are
probably some common factors. Wanting to relive your childhood is probably one
of them. Filling the gap created by a sense of loss is probably another. I
was reading an article the other day that points out, quite correctly, that
we're programmed to accept compensation for a loss at an early age (getting
money when you lose a tooth was the example given).
My parents divorced when I was eight. My mom packed me and my sister up and
moved us across the country. I don't remember feeling particularly traumatized
at the time, but I've come to realize that this is probably the source of most
of my dysfunctional quirks. I believe that it may have been the catalyst that
caused me to cling to my childhood more intently, refusing to give up on some
elements of my youth, like toys and cartoons, even when my peers were beginning
to decide they no longer had any need for such things. I don't think it's any
accident that most of the stuff I've hunted for on eBay in the past year or so
is toys that I owned when I was six or seven. I recognize on a fully conscious
level that I'm seeking to relive happier times. (Gettings new toys is one of
the things that's always made me pretty happy, so you do the math.) Maybe some
of you went through something similar. Or, maybe some of you are in denial and
are getting all worked up and defensive over the very prospect that you're
anything other than a perfectly healthy, well-adjusted adult who plays with
robot dolls meant for seven-year-olds. Either one works, I guess.
So, if I got into collecting toys due to a rather large emotional gap left in
the wake of my shattered family life, doesn't it follow, logically, that I
should no longer have this need to fulfil, now that I'm raising a stable and
secure family of my own? Yeah, probably. The fact that I'm not willing to
give up collecting probably points the way to my being emotionally damaged on
some level. But I also recognize that so long as it doesn't send me into
financial ruin and I'm not swiping toys out of some little kid's hands, it
ultimately hurts nobody. 'Nother words, if it makes me happy, it can't be that
bad.
Of course, it doesn't *always* make me happy. I've had a lot of very nasty
things to say about Transformers in recent months, so one of the other
questions I've asked myself is why I continue to buy toys if they're pissing me
off so much. I don't think there's been a single Armada toy about which I
haven't had something unpleasant to say. (Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada
toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner. Happens all
the time, really.) Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to be as
up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it should be
*obvious.* I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys or the
horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's the
long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is capable of
being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than it is.
So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when Transformers
fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's okay
to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than therapy.
(Well, as long as I don't start importing the Japanese stuff, anyway.)
Eventually, my kids are going to outgrow *their* toys, at which point I'll
probably feel pretty silly. (Immediately after which, I'll stop feeling silly
long enough to realize I get to add their toys to my collection. Heh.)
Nice to be back. Which is a pretty silly thing to say, since I never really
left, but I couldn't think of how else to end this thing.
--
Zobovor
"Reluctantly, Trillian swallowed. It was either that or spit it out, and it
did in fact taste pretty good."--Mostly Harmless
ZMFTS: http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
To e-mail me, chop that Minicon in half.
Zac Bond
"Often-Wrong Zobovor" <zob...@aol.comettor> wrote in message
news:20030901034806...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> are getting all worked up and defensive over the very prospect that
you're
> anything other than a perfectly healthy, well-adjusted adult who
plays with
> robot dolls meant for seven-year-olds. Either one works, I guess.
I buy only Transformers, because they transform. The concept and the
engineering involved are what interests me. I don't care one bit
about the characters or the bios or the cartoon or the lunchboxes or
the shoes. And I definitely don't care about new repaints of old
figures. One of each mold, I say.
But, to each his own! I try not to speculate about the personalities
of other collectors, and I'd appreciate it if the favor were returned.
> up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it
should
> be
> *obvious.* I don't understand the people who make excuses for the
cartoon
> being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1
toys or
> the
> horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
In my opinion, Armada is about 70%-80% good, excluding a universe (or
a Universe...) of worthless repaints. To answer your individual
points:
1) I don't care about or watch the cartoon.
2) Hyperbole to an extreme! The articulation of *most* Armada figures
is better than just about everything G1 ever offered.
3) A name is a name.
4) They look like colorful children's toys.
As a kid, I loved the G1 toys, but I can guarantee I would have
preferred the Armada figures when I was 8. They don't permanently
break when handled roughly, the decals don't rub away, the legs
usually seperate and actually look like legs, and they often have
luxuries like knees and elbows...
-Zac
Commander Crayfish
>It's not that I have unrealistic
>expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
>people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is capable of
>being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than it
>is.
> So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when
>Transformers
>fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
Frankly, I'm more stuck trying to find a precise point in time when
Transformers was that good in the first place. Furman's run on the US title was
a revelation for me, those were the first comics I ever read. There are so many
elements in those issues Simon is always going to end up touching on in later
work. Going over the Titan re-releases last year, I was struck by how quaint
and simple they really were. They resonated with me for what they led me to,
not for what they themselves contained.
Beast Wars? Season two is what brought me back to Transformers. The toys got
depressingly weird as the line entered its third year, but the show never went
below "perfectly enjoyable." Going over the boxed sets, I was struck by Larry's
comment that he felt season one best embodied what he and Bob had set out to do
with the program. Before a lot of consideration went into what had happened
during the Autobot/Decepticon conversion, and the exploration of prehistoric
Earth. And from his vantage, I can completely see how the later seasons "done
him wrong." They never asked to get saddled with outstanding storylines from
someone else's work. That the stories themselves happened to be jaw-droppingly
amazing is irrelevant.
I guess, Zob, what gets me about your tone lately is how gosh-darned
authoritative you've become. You've entered a stage in your fan lifecycle that
we all inevitably do, and you've decided to take it out on Transformers for not
precisely accommodating you. And that's a shame, because I always felt you at
least had something valuable to contribute to discussions around these parts (a
far cry from so many).
More precisely, you went from "man, Hasbro was great for mandating so many cute
winking acknowledgments to the past in RiD" to "Hasbro is Satan, and they have
no respect for the past or the mythology and they are lazy bastards. Anything
Hasbro does right is purely by accident and I will give them no leeway" The
extent to which you flipped that switch is pretty remarkable. I think the
Hasbro employees who gave us BM specs that mentioned Quintessium are still
around -- and despite your claims to the contrary, I think they know fully well
how to spell Ginrai.
For the first time in, god, years, I look forward to what Transformers is
doing. I don't even watch the Armada series. I haven't since the pilot. I love
what Simon is doing with the title, and I think Astroscope will ultimately
develop a rabid fan following. I eagerly await the next War Within installment.
I think in Brad we've found a fresh new voice for TF -- yeah, volume two is a
little all over the place, but at least it's not Ryo's Story.
I'm willing to shell out ten dollars to purchase TFU #1, because I want to see
a licensed BM sequel written. Titan is reprinting everything we could have ever
hoped for (even if the narrative structure of their UK reprints seems to defy
human logic). While I didn't much enjoy Hardwired, I'm delighted that we're to
a point where they'd even attempt novels (hopefully future ones will work a
little harder).
20th Anniversary Prime makes me happy. Hauler getting a toy makes me happy.
Smallest TF makes me happy. Tom DeSanto's scant few comments on how he plans to
structure the live-action movie make me happy. Pat Lee's suddenly positive
stance regarding BW getting a title makes me happy -- and I have no doubt he
himself was happy when Don and Brad and whoever else finally made him watch the
damn show. The BW boxed set makes me happy.
The sheer amount of Transformer material out on the market these days is
staggering. Some of it is bound to be terrible, but by law of averages how much
is going to be enjoyable or even downright excellent? I guess I keep finding
myself being seized by the humorous image that in five years you'll have either
migrated entirely to the classics newsgroup, muttering about the ungrateful
modern-era fans... Or you'll be on a buying frenzy on ebay, kicking yourself
over how much cool product you passed up during your curmudgeon phase. Me, I'm
leaning towards the latter.
You seem to have the notion what you're going through is something completely
unique. It isn't. I had it myself about four years ago, before some friends of
mine smacked the sense back into me. I had forgotten that I am here in service
to the people who gave this entertainment to us. I may have complaints, but I
have never forgotten the debt I owe. You love another person on your own terms.
You love entertainment on its.
I think you do have incredibly unrealistic expectations towards the franchise
-- mostly because I don't think you're capable of liking anything TF does
anymore. Even if they produced a stellar, out of the ballpark season, I think
you'd sabotage it for yourself. You don't want to accept that the problem is
that you've reached a stage in your life all fans do, so you shift the problem
as it stands over to TF. It's easier that way than having to really examine why
TF no longer satisfies you -- or making concessions to that reality.
Let me put it another way. In the last seven years, I've made a pretty
respectable standing for myself in Power Rangers fandom. I ran a website that
was used by everyone, from the staff to the actors to the average fan all over
the world. I made a lot of absolutely wonderful friends because of that, and I
am thankful.
Then Disney bought the show and fired everyone as a cost-cutting measure. The
stunt team was retained, but that was the end of that for the folks that had
created the show. People I cared about, people with lives and families, were
out of work. And I was madder than hell because of it. I took my rage out on
anyone who would listen, and frankly I became a complete dick. Anyone who
supported the program as it stood was a traitor to the franchise and the people
who had brought the show out of its infancy.
It was the coordinated effort of several people that finally put my head back
on straight and reminded me that sometimes terrible things can happen in
business. This wasn't my war to wage, and I wasn't making any friends because
of my feelings -- shit, I lost some. The new staff didn't ask for what had
happened to the previous staff, and who was I to judge them? Who the hell was I
to tell someone else they didn't know what was good for the series, or what
constituted "great" material?
It's the best of us who invest a lot of passion into the things we like, Dave.
But never confuse that passion for fanaticism. I think you're coming
dangerously close to that precipice now and then, and it saddens me.
"I feel so limited by a need to hunt vampires." - Derik W. Smith
*****************CLFu...@aol.com*****************
Ramen Junkie
news:20030901034806...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> wait. That was somebody else.
>
> One of the reasons I haven't posted lately is because just about
everything
> I've been tempted to say is some caustic, negative remark about how much
> Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame
wars,
> and generally not be particularly uplifting. Then I got to wondering why
I
> should stifle my comments and basically say nothing for the duration of
> however-long-Transformers-is-going-to-suck. That could take years. (And
this
> place was never alt.toys.transformers.shiny-happy-robots to begin with.)
So, I
> decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of bottling it
all up,
> to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of bitching
that
> some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed and marketed to
my
> exact specifications. I think that's perfectly justifiable, don't you?
The best group to do this to is the hardcore anime fans. Boy do they get
hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from Japan.
--
Ramen Junkie
Trolling is cheaper than therapy AND transformers.
http://www.lameazoid.com
Andrew Crane
news:RsK4b.3683$Cc7....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > So, I decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of
bottling it
> > all up, to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of
> > bitching that some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed
> > and marketed to my exact specifications. I think that's perfectly
> > justifiable, don't you?
> The best group to do this to is the hardcore anime fans. Boy do they get
> hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from Japan.
*Sigh* I know the sort. They insinuate - or outright slanderously claim -
that you are some kind of racist if you don't automatically agree that
everything from Japan is perfect and wonderful.
--
Andrew
M Sipher
news:20030901071044...@mb-m11.aol.com...
(snip)
Cray has it 100% completely fucking dead-center on-the-money. There really
isn't much of anything I could add to it. But...
>I think you do have incredibly unrealistic expectations towards the
franchise
>-- mostly because I don't think you're capable of liking anything TF does
>anymore. Even if they produced a stellar, out of the ballpark season, I
think
>you'd sabotage it for yourself. You don't want to accept that the problem
is
>that you've reached a stage in your life all fans do, so you shift the
problem
>as it stands over to TF. It's easier that way than having to really examine
why
>TF no longer satisfies you -- or making concessions to that reality.
The Armada Unicron comment stands as testament to that. Armada Unicron is
NOT a G1 toy by any stretch of the imagination.
Sorry. TFs has hit a level it hasn't seen since the heyday of G1, with
little sign of a fall. If you can't find SOMETHING in the vast amounts of
product and media that makes you smile, if you can't recognize the nods and
gifts to the fandom that we've been given (I count the use of names like
Nightbeat and Thunderclash as a positive, form regardless), how damn LUCKY
we truly are as a fandom... then maybe the problem ISN'T with Transformers.
M "Just Sayin'" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions
Home of the productions of King Weasel!
Original stuff, Transformers, MegaMan/RockMan and more crap!
http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/simak/109/
Galenraff
Parts of this resonates with my childhood, as well, and it's often
been a theory of mine that collecting TFs and watching cartoons is
very much related to my refusal to grow up and be a full-fledged
adult. Whenever someone asks me how old I am, it staggers me that I'm
23...I don't feel like I should be that far out of my teens already -
and I suspect that's just going to get worse as I get older :)
> Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
> me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
> of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's the
> long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
> expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
> people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is capable of
> being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than it is.
> So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when Transformers
> fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
I sometimes think about things like that, too. There's such a great
depth of better stories available, and it frustrates me to think that
the creators of TFs aren't using them very often. War Within did,
though. So I see that the spirit is still there in some.
It turns out that there's plenty of other things I'm liking right now.
The reissues, the DVD sets, I had a good time at OTFCC...I think a big
part of any frustration I have about the brand right now is the fact
that I don't like the "central" or "main" line very much. The stuff I
like is on the periphery, and out of the spotlight, whereas I feel
that's the stuff most worthy of the spotlight. So I just have to
recognize that, and just be happy collecting what I like to collect.
> So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's okay
> to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than therapy.
Depends on your health plan. As it turns out, in my case, therapy is
a bit cheaper. :) I'm not going for TF-related reasons, though, so
it's apples and oranges, really.
> a perfectly healthy, well-adjusted adult who plays with
> robot dolls meant for seven-year-olds
I have maintained, and will always maintain, that TFs are not dolls.
They're action figures!
-----------Galenraff-------------
Other Minicon names that could go backwards just
like Overrun becoming Run-Over?
1-Leader, Wayrun, Armlong, Master-zap, Logwater,
Jetram, Outblack, Agewreck, and Plugspark.
David Willis
> NOT a G1 toy by any stretch of the imagination.
http://www.tfdatabase.com/movie/intro/unicron_prototype.html
*That's* the G1 Unicron toy. :)
--David
Which I still wouldn't mind owning. It's endearingly goofy.
www.itswalky.com
Thomas Hamann
<A...@falsebit.rattrap64.free-online.co.uk> screamed his special
catch-phrase, and the result was this:
Then you can easily expose them as hypocrites by saying that there's
Japanese government members who think that raping women is okay and
good for the women (just like certain anime fans, they've probably
seen too much tentacle-sex hentai...).
Thomas Hamann
--
Website: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/
Rec.Arts.Anime.Models Posting Policies: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/faqs.htm
"...you ain't no different than Ben Laden..." - The emminent Dr. J ranting about me on alt.toys.transformers.
Jess
>From: clfu...@aol.com
>I guess, Zob, what gets me about your tone lately is how gosh-darned
>authoritative you've become. You've entered a stage in your fan lifecycle
>that
>we all inevitably do, and you've decided to take it out on Transformers for
>not
>precisely accommodating you.
Might I point out that in your retort, you mentioned praise for mostly BW and
G1 related stuff? I think thats the core of Zob's thinking, that all the
earlier stuff has been spectacular, the Armada stuff has been less than
steller, and for him, it aint workin.
After the long read of Zob's post, I find we have a similar past. I also find
we are in a similar dillema. While my desire to *have* all the new stuff is
still high, my desire to actually go out and *get* it is pretty low. I mean, I
still dont have Unicron, and probably wont get him, unless my son asks for one
(which he prolly wont). My feeling being, what would I *do* with it? I keep my
stuff sealed, and lately just keep stuff packed up (since I moved, I havent
unpacked anything). Plus, I need to re-paint my truck, which is gonna run
$2700. Selling a few toys to pay for it would be kinda cool.
No more sigs for me. Really. Never.
Please remove pants to contact me.
http://hometown.aol.com/itsjesseb/beastwarsguide.html
Updated Every Sunday! Except the Sundays where I dont update. Then its not
updated on that Sunday. But maybe.
Ramen Junkie
news:bnM4b.92614$hc.3...@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
> > The Armada Unicron comment stands as testament to that. Armada Unicron
is
> > NOT a G1 toy by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> http://www.tfdatabase.com/movie/intro/unicron_prototype.html
>
> *That's* the G1 Unicron toy. :)
Hey, it even comes with Dead End!
--
Ramen Junkie
Ramen Junkie
news:3f537c8e$0$46014$65c6...@mercury.nildram.net...
Another good group to troll is Linux users. Especially since 90% of them
can't make an argument past "Windows sucks" without any examples or reasons.
They just use it because it's "different". Kind of like the hardcore anime
fans.
Ramen Junkie
news:3f539221...@news.wxs.nl...
Yes. Point out years of repression towards women and how they did the same
thing to the Chinese that the Nazis did tot he Jews during WW2.
Robert Powers
Behold! On 01 Sep 2003 07:48:06 GMT, Often-Wrong Zobovor
<zob...@aol.comettor> did speak:
>Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame wars,
>and generally not be particularly uplifting. Then I got to wondering why I
>should stifle my comments and basically say nothing for the duration of
>however-long-Transformers-is-going-to-suck. That could take years.
I tend to agree with other posters that Transformers just doesn't suck
right now. Okay, the cartoon does. Even it has its moments, but overall
it drives me batty to watch it in a way that no previous TF show has. But
there's the Armada comic.... and three other titles currently shipping as
well. The toys are a cut above almost anything G1 had to offer, IMO,
and... well, jeez, all these points have been made by other posters, so
I'll skip it.
I do agree that there is some lack of unity in the characterization
department. I mean, it was a big, noticable deal in G1 when cartoon
Shockwave clashed so strongly with his portrayal in the comics. People
noticed it, in part because the tech specs gave such a strong baseline to
compare both against. That's been really lacking in Armada, so when
Scavenger is two completely different people in the cartoon vs. the comic,
it's kinda hard to say anything more than "hey, he's different."
I also agree that the name recycling has been utterly bizarre:
http://boards.allspark.com/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=26765&hl=armada+
shuffle&s=85eebaac4dec86b75bb4dc9523c844f8
>I've devoted a lot of mental energy of late to pondering why I got into
>collecting toys and whether the rewards outweigh the downsides. It's my
>suspicion that most collectors probably aren't aware on a conscious level of
>why they buy children's toys. While it seems to be gaining some social
>acceptance, the fact remains that this compulsion remains uncommon and
>unusual.
For me, it's a retreat and shelter from the real world, a kind of place
I can go to relax and de-stress. When I'm fussing with my toys, outside
concerns just melt away and I'm enclosed in a little mental bubble of
happiness -- analyzing and examining things that are trivial, fun, and
inconsequential (I mean that in a good way). The internet has allowed me
to share that bubble with other folks, too. Isn't that cool??
>the wake of my shattered family life, doesn't it follow, logically, that I
>should no longer have this need to fulfil, now that I'm raising a stable and
>secure family of my own? Yeah, probably. The fact that I'm not willing to
Not necessarily. Perhaps you're confusing the role that Transformers
played in your life (filling a void) with the base cause of that interest
(which could be any number of things)?
>off so much. I don't think there's been a single Armada toy about which I
>haven't had something unpleasant to say. (Unicron is, naturally, not an
>Armada toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner.
>Happens all the time, really.)
See, this sounds like you've taken Armada to mean "everythign out right
now that I don't like", rather than "the current line of new-mold
Transformers". And that's just not fair.
>*obvious.* I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
>being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys or the
>horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
I don't make excuses for any of it. The cartoon is weak, pure and
simple. It has its moments, including a couple of rather good episodes,
but it's still weak. I can't think offhand of a single Armada toy that I
dislike because of the colors (well, okay, Cyclonus, but I never actually
bought him.) The names? Again, go look at my rant on the link above.
The articulation argument.. well, it's wrong, to speak plainly. A big
part -- maybe the majority -- of G1 couldn't even move their legs, except
at the knees -- and then it was meaningless since they had unifeet anyway.
I'm not defending the reduced articulation of Armada, either, but it's
only a step backwards in comparison to BW/BM -- not to G1.
>Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
>me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
>Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
>of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's the
>long and short of it right there.
I can kind of see his point -- though Skyflight was looking for some
very particular aspects, ones which IMO were not even intentional when
they appeared in G1. I can agree, however, that much of Armada has had a
rushed feel to it -- not the toys, but the cartoon dubbing, the tech
spec writing, and just... the overall direction of things at times. The
baseline is G1's kickoff, where they had Marvel come in and write this big
grandiose storyline that tied everything together and made sure every
character had a strong bio. Armada had a feeling of starting off with
similar intentions, and they just weren't able to pull it off. And I
suspect it's as much a result of the faster pace of the industry and
business in general, as anything else.
--
Robert Powers
repo...@uwm.edu ________________________________________
| Built St. Louis |
| http://www.BuiltStLouis.net/ |
|________ Tracking the city's endangered architecture _|
Thylacine 2000
good ones from Crayfish in his response. I'm not going to just
cherry-pick my way through all of it and say "Me too" at the right
bits; I'm just going to respond to the parts that evoked the strongest
response. This should not be taken as though I think the rest of it
isn't worth responding to; I just don't think I'd have much to say on
it right now that'd be worth reading.
So:
> I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
> me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
> of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's the
> long and short of it right there.
Respectfully, I said that was a false choice when Skyf first used it,
and I still say it is now. I know many fans who appreciate TFs on all
sorts of levels, as both praiseworthy "legitimate" sci-fi adventure
storytelling *and* as bizarro-nostalgia kitsch. I mean, a lot of the
people who snarf their milkshakes out their noses listening to the
Singapore JTF dubs are the same people who have practically turned
Furman's TF theology and prehistory into their own religion. They can
distinguish the times and contexts when to take their hobby seriously,
and when not to. The people who are all psyched for Armada probably
don't approach this hobby with any less of a hope for "greatness" than
anybody else; it's fair to assume that they have different priorities,
different criteria, or see the "main idea" of greatness within Armada
and can look past whatever they don't like in order to get it. After
all, what in this hobby *doesn't* involve looking past shortcomings in
order to have a good time? All of the series have some pretty serious
flaws, and yet lots of people like them all.
So if for the sake of my overall enjoyment of Beast Wars I am willing
to pretend that the characters aren't really saying "Maximize!" and
"Terrorize!" all over my new season 1 giftset, and to overlook that BW
was completely written on the fly by authors who visibly had no idea
how it was going to turn out..... then it is only fair to assume that
the fans of Armada, who look forward to the cartoon and like the
story, have found its own goodness within it and can just "tune out"
everything else. Really, is it so different than what any of us have
done for any other series?
I, too, have felt a lot of ambivalence and negativity towards this
hobby in recent months. Some of it is due to my near-despair over
Armada not having anything even hinting at a story or set of
characters that I could ever care about, yet seeming to be stretched
out forever and now getting a *sequel* in the form of Energon (which
doesn't make me confident about the levels that EN will reach). The
open acknowledgment that all new toys will be repainted--sometimes
drastically--within less than a year from first release, thus making
their purchase seem less distinctive (and also a harder choice to
make, for a non-completist who hates owning doubles and only wants the
"best" version). And then there's the fandom's increasing embrace of
its newfound criminal element. Oh, and the disappointment and regret
that I feel over the illegitimate restructuring of ATTCM, which I now
consider to be defunct. Perhaps the biggest disappointment of all is
the lingering doubt over OTFCC's ability to deliver on planned events
and merchandise.
Yet as Crayfish noted, there's so much going on in this hobby right
now that's *good*. DVD sets, Alternators and 20th Prime, Titan
reprints, Dark Ages, Brad Mick, Profiles, Battle Protocol
(plugplugplug), and the high *hopes* about upcoming conventions and
fan-club goodness.
The problem, I think, is that so much of the developments in this
hobby must be followed on-line, and in general computer interactions
just tend to magnify bad emotions; they lend themselves to anger and
confusion. People don't post a 200-message thread about how awesome
something is; the "good news" is typically in the form of trade show
pictures of toys that won't be out for months, or print ads for books
that also aren't out yet. In the list I gave above of stuff that's
got me down about this hobby, most of it was just based on *how people
celebrate the hobby*, not the material itself. Many of Zob's
complaints over Armada weren't just about it in itself, but over his
confusion about the other people who somehow like it. Same problem.
So I think the trick to be accomplished is to find a way to enjoy the
new material without letting net-strife over it strip the fun away.
As the saying goes, people can miss seeing a forest because the trees
got in the way.
I can't speak to the need to be an "obsessive-compulsive collector,"
except to say that I don't understand it and don't think it's a good
idea, ESPECIALLY for someone like Zob who clearly dislikes a good
chunk of what he feels compelled to buy. The instant a hobby becomes
a burden is the time to reconsider one's approach to it; something you
don't like doing, and can't stop doing, is not a hobby but an
addiction.
Perceptor II
> decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of bottling it
all up,
> to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of bitching
that
> some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed and marketed to
my
> exact specifications. I think that's perfectly justifiable, don't you?
Acceptable, yes. You do have the right to voice your opinion. Justifiable?
That depends. Are you claiming that said company, which is trying to
mass-market their toy line, should cater exclusively to *your*
specifications? Then no. Are you complaining that a toy line that used to
be very enjoyable to you is no longer enjoyable? That would be justifiable.
> I've devoted a lot of mental energy of late to pondering why I got into
> collecting toys and whether the rewards outweigh the downsides. It's my
> suspicion that most collectors probably aren't aware on a conscious level
of
> why they buy children's toys. While it seems to be gaining some social
> acceptance, the fact remains that this compulsion remains uncommon and
unusual.
> Naturally, not everybody does it for the same reason, but I think there
are
> probably some common factors. Wanting to relive your childhood is
probably one
> of them. Filling the gap created by a sense of loss is probably another.
I
> was reading an article the other day that points out, quite correctly,
that
> we're programmed to accept compensation for a loss at an early age
(getting
> money when you lose a tooth was the example given).
The "reliving childhood" angle is probably common, though it's not
everybody. Me, I just never completely "grew up". It's not about regaining
a childhood, it's more about just having fun in the present, and I have fun
through a means that most people give up on when they reach their teen
years.
> Of course, it doesn't *always* make me happy. I've had a lot of very
nasty
> things to say about Transformers in recent months, so one of the other
> questions I've asked myself is why I continue to buy toys if they're
pissing me
> off so much. I don't think there's been a single Armada toy about which I
> haven't had something unpleasant to say. (Unicron is, naturally, not an
Armada
> toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner.
Happens all
> the time, really.) Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to
be as
> up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it should
be
> *obvious.*
Obvious to you. Not obvious to me, someone who comes to his love of
Transformers from a very different angle.
> Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated
with
> me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who
think
> of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's
the
> long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
> expectations. I just have very *high* expectations.
I most definitely disagree. It's not that you have *high* expectations,
it's that your expectations are fairly *specific*. There's a narrow range
in which a toy called a "Transformer" can exist and still be considered
"good" or "great" in your eyes. For me, that range is wider. It can
include toys that have limited posability but have some cool gimmicks.
This is something different than being able to accept lower quality toys.
There's a difference between being "low quality" and being "not in my
tastes". For instance, Barbie is a great toy line, but I have no interest
in collecting it. Lego is arguably a greater toy line than Transformers,
but I don't find myself drawn to the Lego toy aisle.
> So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's
okay
> to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than
therapy.
> (Well, as long as I don't start importing the Japanese stuff, anyway.)
> Eventually, my kids are going to outgrow *their* toys, at which point I'll
> probably feel pretty silly. (Immediately after which, I'll stop feeling
silly
> long enough to realize I get to add their toys to my collection. Heh.)
Let me add a "heh" to that. Now if only I had kids...
>
> Nice to be back. Which is a pretty silly thing to say, since I never
really
> left, but I couldn't think of how else to end this thing.
I'd say welcome back, but pretty new to this newsgroup. I tried posting
through the web years ago, but that didn't last long. Now that I have
honest-to-goodness Usenet access, you'll probably see more of me.
Iron Wookiee
>a burden is the time to reconsider one's approach to it; something you
>don't like doing, and can't stop doing, is not a hobby but an
>addiction.
Very insightful, and very true.
Jess
>that I feel over the illegitimate restructuring of ATTCM, which I now
>consider to be defunct.
Not to change the subject, but since you brought it up.................
Anyone read that "Unbrand America" crap over there? I thought it mighty
strange that that made it (4 seperate times) to a *moderated* NG about
Transformers. Well, honestly, I didnt think it strange. Unfortunately, ATTCM
has become a personal forum for you know who, and I suspect there shall be
much more crap spread from that pulpit.
Now, back to the fun at hand!
Adrian
<snip>
> Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada
> toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner.
Amen. Preach on, my brother!
> Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to be as
> up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada.
Heck, I am, or I should be. But just like you, I have too much respect for
this newsgroup to start trolling or flaming it with posts about how much I
hate Armada, even if the posts were done with just "constructive criticism."
So, most of the time I just keep my mouth shut, but it's definitely not in
acquiescence.
> I mean, it should be
> *obvious.* I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
> being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys or
the
> horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
I could have tolerated the lack of articulation, some of the terrible
sculpts, and even the bad color schemes, but the poor name choices for the
sake of keeping trademarks... *growls*
> Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated
with
> me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who
think
> of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's
the
> long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
> expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
> people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is capable
of
> being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than
it is.
> So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when
Transformers
> fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
Long time TF fans, I think, have this problem more often than newer fans.
It's because you've seen it all, from the toyline's past to present, from
its highs and lows; so of course, there is a mindset of wanting to see
progression rather than stagnation.
> So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's
okay
> to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than
therapy.
Unless, it turns you into a shopaholic. ;) <j/k>
--
Adrian
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Anyone read that "Unbrand America" crap over there? I thought it mighty
> strange that that made it (4 seperate times) to a *moderated* NG
I haven't seen it there, because I stopped reading ATTCM, but I have seen
it elsewhere. It was posted forged-approved to other moderated groups,
too. Don't blame Raksha for that one.
--Steve-o
--
Steve Stonebraker | http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/
sst...@yahoo.com | Transformers, astrophysics, comics, games, cartoons.
FREDRICK FELTMAN
started..."we want our old G1 back!!" BW started with very few names
crossing over..Optimus, Megatron, and Skorponok for the start..and clearly
stated they were different characters with the same names...then they
started re-using the names and everyone was complainin bout that too..can't
make up our minds!!!
"Adrian" <adra...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:yKO4b.5004$tw6...@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Dave Van Domelen
you'd never, EVER get a toy like that in G1. Saying it's not "really" Armada
just so you can say all Armada sucks is incredibly sloppy arguing technique.
Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
NOTHING bad is said...perfection doesn't exist in reality.
David Willis
That's true, even of Unicron. I mean, those wings of his are hard to get
positioned
right, even after all the "fixes" the fandom has come up with. And the
shells on his
back are still "cheating," to my eye. Otherwise, he's amazing.
Even near-perfect toys like Armada Hoist have their flaws -- specifically,
he's got
probably the worst "gimmick" in Armada. At least Super-Con Prime can do a
little
dance, but Hoist's gimmick is that you can lock his arm into not
functioning.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Farrell
news:jr37lv87c21ldu26q...@4ax.com...
> <snip family history>
>
> Parts of this resonates with my childhood, as well, and it's often
> been a theory of mine that collecting TFs and watching cartoons is
> very much related to my refusal to grow up and be a full-fledged
> adult. Whenever someone asks me how old I am, it staggers me that I'm
> 23...I don't feel like I should be that far out of my teens already -
> and I suspect that's just going to get worse as I get older :)
>
she accused me of still living my teens, even though I'm 25 this weekend.
I couldn't disagree - I still feel like I'm 18 at most, sometimes...
> > So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's
okay
> > to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than
therapy.
>
> Depends on your health plan. As it turns out, in my case, therapy is
> a bit cheaper. :) I'm not going for TF-related reasons, though, so
> it's apples and oranges, really.
>
I can't afford either...
I've got Soundwave coming this month, and I haven't a clue where the money's
coming from :/
> > a perfectly healthy, well-adjusted adult who plays with
> > robot dolls meant for seven-year-olds
>
> I have maintained, and will always maintain, that TFs are not dolls.
> They're action figures!
>
wasn't it mandated in court (US) that a figure had to be human to be a doll,
otherwise it's an action figure?
(I think Fox actually requested that X-Men could be classed as non-human so
they could get past the doll status)
--
Capt
http://www.tfhl.net
"That's it - screw CNN, from now on - I'm going to rely on Porn sites,
for news...." -=[Clawz]=- in alt.games.half-life
M Sipher
> > Just as an aside, Unicron is an Armada toy. It's not a delayed G1
> toy,
> > you'd never, EVER get a toy like that in G1. Saying it's not "really"
> Armada
> > just so you can say all Armada sucks is incredibly sloppy arguing
> technique.
> >
> > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> > NOTHING bad is said...perfection doesn't exist in reality.
>
> That's true, even of Unicron. I mean, those wings of his are hard to get
> positioned
> right, even after all the "fixes" the fandom has come up with. And the
> shells on his
> back are still "cheating," to my eye. Otherwise, he's amazing.
Well, my main problem with him is that he's at that wonderful size where
posability (at least below the waist) really DOESN'T do him that much good,
since his sheer weight keeps him from being very stable in action poses.
M "And I Think His Soft-Plastic Shoulders Are Being Bent In Planet Form..."
Suspsy
Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to be as
> up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it should be
> *obvious.* I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
> being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys or the
> horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
I see absolutely nothing "obvious", sorry. With regards to the
cartoon, I will grant that it's nowhere near as great as the blessing
that was BW, I find it's improved considerably in recent times, in
terms of story and characterization.
The toys have less articulation than most G1 toys? Are we talking
about the same line here? Which Armada toys are you specifically
referring to? Even Scavenger has more articulation than the average G1
toy.
As for colour schemes, that's purely a matter of personal taste and
thus there is no qualifiable "right" or "wrong" scheme. Though again,
it would be nice if you could be specific.
> Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
> me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
> of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled."
I always thought that this was an absolutely idiotic, pompous,
insulting thing for him to say (which, sadly, fits with most of what
he ever had to say on ATT). I've been a Transformers fan since 1984.
I've poured countless amounts of money, time, energy, and passion into
my hobby. I've been to four conventions and counting. My biggest
problem, hobby-wise, is that I'm rapidly running out of space for my
ever-expanding collection.
In short, I do indeed think of Transformers as great. I also happen to
be positively *thrilled* with all the new stuff, from Armada to TFU to
Energon and Alternators (although I won't be buying the latter simply
because it doesn't fit with my personal tastes). As such, I have no
patience for people telling me that I'm somehow less of a fan because
my standards aren't as unrealistically rigid. Such a notion smacks of
that whole "true fan" rot that was spawned in the aftermath of Botcon
1996.
Please note that I'm not accusing you of harbouring such thoughts. I'm
simply pointing out what I perceive as the sheer idiocy of that
particular philosophy.
I think that's the
> long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
> expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
> people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is capable of
> being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than it is.
Believe me, I know all about having high expectations, but I'm also a
staunch realist. I know that my definition of greatness isn't likely
to coincide perfectly with that of say, Hasbro's or an eight-year old
boy's. I think, rather than continuing to focus on a line's perceived
shortcomings, it's alot more fun and enjoyable and healthy to focus on
what a line *does* have. If it were up to me, Armada would've be full
of original beast toys instead of a half-dozen recoloured BW toys, but
you don't see me bemoaning the latter. Way I see it, if the current
line is doing well both in the ratings and at the register, then it
can indeed be labelled as great. And I'd say this even if I didn't
like Armada.
Even if your expectations are unrealistic as you maintain, have you
considered that they're still a bit too high? I ask this with all
sincerity and no hostility.
Susp
"The best achievements are worth repeating." -Sky Lynx
Mark Brown
*SNIP*
> > "Ramen Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.nett> wrote in message
> > news:RsK4b.3683$Cc7....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > > The best group to do this to is the hardcore anime fans. Boy do they
> get
> > > hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from
> Japan.
> Another good group to troll is Linux users. Especially since 90% of them
> can't make an argument past "Windows sucks" without any examples or
reasons.
> They just use it because it's "different". Kind of like the hardcore
anime
> fans.
Sounds like the Enterprise haters.
Most of whom seem very proud that they've never even sat through one
episode.
Mark
"Note the brilliant use of logic in their justification."
Mark Brown
> > a perfectly healthy, well-adjusted adult who plays with
> > robot dolls meant for seven-year-olds
> I have maintained, and will always maintain, that TFs are not dolls.
> They're action figures!
That said, I ~still~ want an Optimus Prime plushie. ;)
Mark
"G1 ~or~ RiD, it doesn't matter."
Mark Brown
news:bj0j2a$jig$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
*SNIP*
> Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> NOTHING bad is said...
The Cthulhu Plushie.
Mark
"It is ~beyond~ mere 'Good' and 'Bad.'"
Adrian
> That said, I ~still~ want an Optimus Prime plushie. ;)
Hmmm...I'm having flashbacks of a post a couple of years back, with links to
pics of a cute, naked blond chick playing with her custom-made TF UFO toys.
--
Adrian
Desperado00
>NOTHING bad is said..
I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
-----
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
An egotist is a self-made man who worships his creator.
If we aren't meant to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?
No horse is too dead to beat.
David Willis
> >NOTHING bad is said..
>
> I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
Well, there's his entire beast mode...
I mean, I like rabbits. But that beast mode sure can't stand in any
rabbit-esque
pose that looks good. Bleah.
--David
I wanted him, but then I saw him in person.
www.itswalky.com
Pyre
>
> I also agree that the name recycling has been utterly bizarre:
>
> http://boards.allspark.com/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=26765&hl=armada+
> shuffle&s=85eebaac4dec86b75bb4dc9523c844f8
Allot of the naming decisions of recent have made no sense to me either.
Best example is the upcoming RiD Prowl and X-Brawn repaints in Universe.
The RiD Prowl repaint is a perfect Red Alert. Looks exactly like him in
vehicle mode and is obviously meant to be him. So of course they decide
to call him Inferno. Now this IS an appropriate name for a Fire Rescue
vehicle, but given the paint scheme and the fact that they have the name
Red Alert, why didn't they name him as such? Then we have the RiD X-Brawn
repaint. He's an emergency rescue vehicle painted up with a latter on the
roof and obviously is meant to invoke a fire engine appearance. So of
course they name him Ratchet. o_O What the hell does Ratchet have to do
with this toy? THIS is the toy that should have been named Inferno.
> The
> baseline is G1's kickoff, where they had Marvel come in and write this big
> grandiose storyline that tied everything together and made sure every
> character had a strong bio. Armada had a feeling of starting off with
> similar intentions, and they just weren't able to pull it off. And I
> suspect it's as much a result of the faster pace of the industry and
> business in general, as anything else.
What's odd is that they had plenty of time to work on these things but
seemingly dropped the ball on it. My feeling is that while they're
working on the design of the toys, they should be working on the backstory
and characterization to go with them. Maybe they should take a page from
the GIJoe staff and apply that to TFs. Larry Hama is writing the
filecards for the Joes (on a small tangent, why is it that THAT line
doesn't have to have tri-lingual packaging yet everything else does?),
perhaps they should get Furman or someone to write up the bios for TFs?
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"I feel my world shake, like an earthquake.
Hard to see clear. Is it me, is it fear?
Madly in Anger with you. I'm madly in anger with you."
BW Glitch
> Nice to be back. Which is a pretty silly thing to say, since I never really
> left, but I couldn't think of how else to end this thing.
Great to have you back, Zobovor!
--
Glitch
-----BEGIN TF FAN CODE BLOCK-----
G+++ G1 G2+ BW++++ MW++ BM+ Rid+ Arm-- FR+ FW-
#3 D+ ADA N++ W OQP MUSH- BC- CN++ OM P75
-----END TF FAN CODE BLOCK-----
"There just ain't no figgerin' a female."
"A fact of life, Fuzor."
-- Quickstrike and Tarantulas on Blackarachnia, "Tangled Web"
Pyre
> Funny thing..I remember people saying the same thing after Beast Wars
> started..."we want our old G1 back!!" BW started with very few names
> crossing over..Optimus, Megatron, and Skorponok for the start..and clearly
> stated they were different characters with the same names...then they
> started re-using the names and everyone was complainin bout that too..can't
> make up our minds!!!
>
Well, it largely depends on the character behind those names. Primal is
obviously a very different character from Prime, yet he showed that he was
a great leader in BW and very much worthy of the Optimus name. Megatron
is the story and to some of us far surpasses G1 Megatron as a character.
BW Inferno rocks hard and his name fits him like a glove. Most of the
other name reuses were from forgettable characters that don't really mean
much of anything to me so it was easy to get over it.
Pyre
>
> As for colour schemes, that's purely a matter of personal taste and
> thus there is no qualifiable "right" or "wrong" scheme. Though again,
> it would be nice if you could be specific.
>
I'd be interested in specific examples as well. IMO, I can't think of a
single Armada toy that's been released that suffers from a bad color
scheme. Overload perhaps comes close due to all that red, but I don't
think it's horrible. Most of my color scheme complaints are with the
Universe line, which is largely why I'm not buying anything in it. The
only Armada toys that I think have questionable color schemes are the
Powerlinx toys and even then only a small percentage have truly ridiculous
colors.
Richard Mistron
> I've been doing a lot of thinking, about growing older and moving on. No,
> wait. That was somebody else.
You talkin' 'bout me? You talkin' 'bout me? I don't see anyone else here, so
you must be talkin' 'bout me. :-)
> One of the reasons I haven't posted lately is because just about
everything
> I've been tempted to say is some caustic, negative remark about how much
> Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame
wars,
> and generally not be particularly uplifting.
Not surprisingly, I've felt the same way for quite some time now.
> Then I got to wondering why I
> should stifle my comments and basically say nothing for the duration of
> however-long-Transformers-is-going-to-suck. That could take years. (And
this
> place was never alt.toys.transformers.shiny-happy-robots to begin with.)
Sure it has been. But, that was around 1990. :-)
> So, I
> decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of bottling it
all up,
> to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of bitching
that
> some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed and marketed to
my
> exact specifications. I think that's perfectly justifiable, don't you?
I believe so. If it helps you and doesn't hurt anyone else, I see nothing
wrong with the occasional venting.
> I've devoted a lot of mental energy of late to pondering why I got into
> collecting toys and whether the rewards outweigh the downsides. It's my
> suspicion that most collectors probably aren't aware on a conscious level
of
> why they buy children's toys. While it seems to be gaining some social
> acceptance, the fact remains that this compulsion remains uncommon and
unusual.
I have recently been trying to narrow down my desire to buy every
Transformer toy that comes down the Takara/Hasbro pike. It's been an
interesting journey to say the least. I've finally cured myself of
completism. But, more on that later possibly.
> Naturally, not everybody does it for the same reason, but I think there
are
> probably some common factors. Wanting to relive your childhood is
probably one
> of them. Filling the gap created by a sense of loss is probably another.
I
> was reading an article the other day that points out, quite correctly,
that
> we're programmed to accept compensation for a loss at an early age
(getting
> money when you lose a tooth was the example given).
That was the key, at least for myself. I realised that I was trying to fill
a void that could never be filled. Be it a new mold or a repaint, I would be
enamored by it for a few days and then it would go on the shelf or in th
ebox under the bed. The newness was worn away and the void emptied again.
Another would come along and the void would fill again. Now, the void is
being ignored for the most part. It would have eventually destroyed me I
believe.
[snip]
> But I also recognize that so long as it doesn't send me into
> financial ruin and I'm not swiping toys out of some little kid's hands, it
> ultimately hurts nobody. 'Nother words, if it makes me happy, it can't
> be that bad.
Just so long as it actualy makes you happy. If you buy a particular toy and
dislike it, sell it or give it to Goodwill or somesuch. I realised that I
no longer care for most of the Armada line, despite my more positive reviews
in the past. So, I got rid of every last IMO crappy Armada toy, leaving me
with a nice collection of eight Autobots, Decepticons, and Unicron and a
handful of Mini-Cons.
> Of course, it doesn't *always* make me happy. I've had a lot of very
nasty
> things to say about Transformers in recent months, so one of the other
> questions I've asked myself is why I continue to buy toys if they're
pissing me
> off so much. I don't think there's been a single Armada toy about which I
> haven't had something unpleasant to say.
What with the lack of articulation in some cases, name reuse, and a sea of
endless repaints in the Armada line, I believe you. And now there is the
sub-standard plastic that some of the current toys, TFU included, seem to be
being made from.
> (Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada
> toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner.
Happens all
> the time, really.)
I agree, though others would prefer to scoff your statement rather than
accept it as a differing opinion. No offense meant, but maybe it was the way
it was delivered.
> Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to be as
> up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it should
be
> *obvious.*
I am, but I keep quiet about it, here at least. There are other forums that
are more open to negative comments than ATT usually is on a whole.
> I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
> being so lousy
It may be because they genuinely enjoy it. I don't know. The odd scheduling
of episodes and the consistant reruns - I swear the only episode that's ever
aired is the one that Smokescreen is introduced in - I just could care less
about the show.
> or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys
Watch out for those that will throw the Throttlebots in your face on that
statement. Never mind that Armada Scavenger has what, five points of
articulation? G1 Jazz has eight, sure it's all in the arms. But there are
toys out there that can back this up.
> or the horrible name choices
I understand that Hasbro wants to keep the names they're using. But would it
hurt to use only a few? Will there be a Mirage in Energon or TFU or
Alternators? I sincerely hope not. The name no longer holds any meaning, at
least not to me.
> and just-plain-bad color schemes.
As Daniel said, that's a matter of opinion. I happen to dislike a lot of the
color choices used lately, especially on Galvatron, Hot Shot and his
repaint, the Cyclonus repaint, and a few others I can't think of at the
moment.
[snip]
> So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's
okay
> to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than
therapy.
> (Well, as long as I don't start importing the Japanese stuff, anyway.)
You can always get your friends to do it for you. :-)
> Eventually, my kids are going to outgrow *their* toys, at which point I'll
> probably feel pretty silly. (Immediately after which, I'll stop feeling
silly
> long enough to realize I get to add their toys to my collection. Heh.)
But, they will be all beat up and played with. Guess you could repaint them
or restore them though.
> Nice to be back. Which is a pretty silly thing to say, since I never
really
> left, but I couldn't think of how else to end this thing.
Good to see you back to posting.
Túrin
> Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
> me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
> long and short of it right there.
The shows and stories out right now? Suckitude, definitely.
The toys? Well, Sideswipe sux. The rest? Well, I think they're really
neat. I like the Armada toys, the ones I've got. Perfect, no, but
definitely pretty cool.
So, maybe I think TFs are cool, not great. That's the toys though.
I thought G1 and BW were great. So maybe that explains why I am sad we
don't get great shows anymore.
I wasn't going to buy any more Armada toys, not because I don't like
them, but because my passion for toys in general has waned, what with my
mother not being able to figure out when she's actually going to crap
out, and having a drop-dead gorgeous girlfriend (which I don't deserve
and still can't figure out how I managed it). Also I don't have money
to burn at the moment and no space to display stuff.
But then my best friend's mother was killed in a car accident, and after
meeting with the family at the viewing I was in an extremely somber mood
and went to Target and bought Sideswipe and Blurr and all the minicons I
didn't have (except for repaints). I really liked her a lot, I spent a
lot of time at their house when I was a teenager and she was well-loved
by everyone. It's a crying shame.
Túrin
Túrin
>
> > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> >NOTHING bad is said..
>
> I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
The gun mode sucked.
Túrin
M Sipher
news:3F5414...@knoledge.org...
Gun? I thought he was supposed to be some kind of hedge trimmer. Either way,
it sucks.
M "And Yes, His Beast Mode Is Awful For Being Molded As If He's Supposed To
Be In Midair" Sipher
Steve-o Stonebraker
> What's odd is that they had plenty of time to work on these things but
> seemingly dropped the ball on it. My feeling is that while they're
> working on the design of the toys, they should be working on the backstory
> and characterization to go with them.
While that would certainly please a lot of us long-term fans (but not all
of us, by any means), I don't think there's any evidence to show that it
would make sense from a business standpoint. Especially with Armada
seemingly being incredibly successful despite it's low-end fiction. It
seems as if working out the story in that much detail might not be that
important after all.
Derik Smith
Derik notes: I'm freely intercutting between
portions of Zob's two most recent thread-
spawning posts.
>So, I've been looking at the Playskool Go-Bots lately. I got a handful of the
>ones I didn't have yet on eBay from ViceGripX (very good trader, perhaps
you've
>heard of him) and I've been looking at some of the others. I picked up
>Silverbolt today since Wal-Mart had marked him down to $11, and I was worried
>he'd sell out pretty quickly. His sound bytes make me laugh. ("Complete
>Go-Bot Power"? The heck with R.E.V.; this guy's the real Race Evolution
>Vehicle.) Of the two left on the shelf, the one I didn't buy had an Aerobot
>sound chip. I'll pick it up for cost plus shipping for anybody who's into odd
>variants like that.
Has anyone got the black Reptron yet? I want to know if his tech-spec is
the same.
>I also saw the Speed-Bot that comes with the video pack-in. It's a shame that
>he's the only character who comes with the video, since I already own two
>Speed-Bots and have no desire to own a third. The cartoon does look like fun,
>though.
Ah, he's actually hitting stores now? *makes note to look some more.*
>(Random comment: I find it somewhat offensive that Aaron Archer has
>suggested on the Orson's World forum that the Go-Bots toy line has nothing
>whatsoever to do with the Transformers toy line, that it's intended for a
>completely separate age group, and that we shouldn't be mixing the two
>fantasies. Right, because all those six-year-old kids specifically asked for
>Mirage-Bot to be blue-and-white with the numeral 26 on his hood.
With the entire line named Go-Bots, and character in the cartoon who ARE
Primal and Waspinator., playing up his BM incarnation even... yeah. No
connection? They're on crack.
>Of course, I find a lot of what he says to be offensive,
>but that's neither here nor there.)
No, no, say it here!
>I believe Transformers: Universe to be the singularly most
>pointless toy line ever conceived. The goal appears to be to
>take the most poorly-designed toys from each of the recent
>lines, paint them in the most hideous color schemes conceivable,
What really irks me is... they're not actually as hideous as the packaging
makes them out to be. Reptilicon is purple, gold, and dark red. It's a SNAZZY
color scheme. The bubble art, and his TFU comic appearance, make him bright
red and green, Christmas colors. Neither of these shades, nor anything even
REMOTELY like them, is actually on the damn toy.
Tankor? Christmas red and green.
Optimus Primal's TOY looks like this;
http://members.aol.com/regenesis0/primal-tfu.gif
As he appears in the TFU comic?
http://www.otfcc.com/images/2003TomartAdRGB.jpg
WHY? AARUGH. Why do they make the colors suck? And why is Primal BROWN?
I've seen the toy!! PRIMAL IS NOT BROWN. The actual toy has a GOOD color
scheme.
*pouts.*
>and market them bases solely on these merits, without a
>hint of what the characters are like.
Lack of Tech-specs. LACK OF TECH-SPECS.
At the rate this is progressing, I fully expect, in two years time, that
we'll just have TF's without names.
"Doi, why do you need a name? It's a cool robot vehicle. The name
doesn't increase play value, her-yuk!"
[obscene suggestion directed at Orson.]
>I saw Dinobot Striker and Blackarachnia today,
>and simply had to put them both on layaway. I find it terribly funny that the
>Dinobot Striker toy was known as Snarl something like a month ago. I've
>already got a small army of transforming dinosaur toys, including three of
this
>particular mold, and my daughter Becca is terribly fond of them. (She
>especially likes the Magmatron components. Go figure.)
Magmatron is cool! He had a GREAT tech-spec.
>Blackarachnia pisses
>me off on so many levels that it's not even funny. Putting aside for the
>moment that she apparently fell out of the ugly tree and hit every
technorganic
>branch on the way down, they're marketing her as a Decepticon, which is even
>*more* wrong than marketing her as an Autobot. Or maybe it's not. I haven't
>decided yet. In any event, any toy that pisses me off *this* much is a toy I
>simply must own.
The colors, aarugh, the colors!
http://www.otfcc.com/images/2003TomartAdRGB.jpg
Look at the comic colors! Blue and gold! That's almost REGAL. That's
much better than what we got, and more visually distinctive. tfu!BA, is a
major letdown in the color department.
And they market her as a Decepticon- but provide no biography explaining
why this is?
Maybe it's all a Byzantine plot to re-inflate a collector market being
flattened by cheap G1 reissues. They release boring, nondistinctive toys, and
then make us wait a year for Dreamwave to publish profiles of them, forcing
fans to pay collector prices for the interesting characters! After all, Hasbro
must realize that G1 Nightbeat doesn't command top dollar because of his great
toy, right? Right? ...right?
>I really don't understand the notion behind taking a bunch of old molds,
>sticking non-functioning powerlinx pegs on them, and pretending they're Armada
>toys. That, to me, is one of the most singularly daft things Hasbro could
have
>done, during a time when the *entire* Armada toy line is driven by the Minicon
>gimmick. The *worst* thing they could possibly do is sneak some gimmick-less
>toys into the line. Kids are going to assume, quite naturally, that these
toys
>actually *do* something when you plug the Minicons in place. This is one of
>the most truly evil things I've ever seen Hasbro do. (That said, there
>definitely *are* ways to retro-fit some of the old toys so that the Minicons
>actually *do* something. There were loads of Beast Wars toys with
>trigger-activated gimmicks. All they would have needed was a powerlinx
housing
>over the trigger. The *worst* possible toys to add to Armada would be toys
>without any spring-powered functions, like, oh, say, the Transmetals? Take
the
>one batch of toys whose entire purpose in life was to be shiny, and then take
>the shiny paint away. BRILLIANT.)
Actually, this struck me as one of the better things Armada has done. The
gimmicks essentially cripple the design of most of the Armada toys. Next year,
all the Energon toys will have dead hard points for Mini-cons to use. The
Mini-cons themselves were a good idea. The Mini-con-activated-gimmicks were
not.
...of course, the real reason energon is apparently phasing out the
Mini-con-activated-gimmicks is because there will be no room for them in a line
whose gimmick is combining. Bully. Have you SEEN the Hot Shot toy for next
year?
It annoys me that Cheetor is in Armada some 200 years before he was
created, but hey, that inconsistency is all masked by his lack of a tech-spec!
>In other news, I finally picked up my TMNT layaway. It boggles the mind how
>wonderful these toys are. They're sculpted beautifully, engineered superbly,
>and have some pretty damn nifty gimmick-driven accessories. Leaps and bounds
>better than the original figures, to be sure. (Well, except maybe for April.
>She needs her jumpsuit back. She needs to look a lot less like a Bratz doll.)
>It seems that a lot of 1980's toy properties are coming back... He-Man, Care
>Bears, Strawberry Shortcake, and each of them is being handled wonderfully.
>Transformers is the only license that really seems to be getting the short end
>of the stick. Shame, really.
That's an illusion. While the most recent revivals you cite have
generally been will done, many of them aren't full scale revivals either. Care
Bears is more akin to G2. It's a marketing blitz built around repackaging the
old cartoon. I THINK Shortcake is the same. Voltron's revival a few years
back was godawful, spawning a bad TV show AND bad toys. G.I. Joe fans howl as
Hasbro constantly tinkers with their line.
>One of the reasons I haven't posted lately is because just about everything
>I've been tempted to say is some caustic, negative remark about how much
>Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame wars,
>and generally not be particularly uplifting.
It will also create solidarity and decrease feeling of isolation among
those who agree with you. And sometimes flame wars are a good thing, if there
are legitimate issues to be examined.
>Then I got to wondering why I should stifle my comments and basically
>say nothing for the duration of however-long-Transformers-is-going-to-suck.
>That could take years. (And this place was never alt.toys.transformers.
>shiny-happy-robots to begin with.) So, I decided it would ultimately be
>healthier for me, instead of bottling it all up, to actually vent some of my
>frustrations by doing a whole lot of bitching that some other company's
>kiddy toy line isn't being designed and marketed to my exact
>specifications. I think that's perfectly justifiable, don't you?
Actually I think it is, MINUS your sarcasm. You are a consumer, a BULK
consumer of transformers goods. You have a perfectly legitimate right to bitch
when you feel the line decreases in quality. In fact you have a better right,
arguably, than a kid who might get 4 TF's a year.
Of course, unlike that kid, you're not obeying market dynamics. When he
thinks TF sucks, he goes and buys Shaman King RP toys. You keep buying TF's.
<snips account of Zob's secret origin>
>Of course, it doesn't *always* make me happy. I've had a lot of very nasty
>things to say about Transformers in recent months, so one of the other
>questions I've asked myself is why I continue to buy toys if they're pissing
me
>off so much. I don't think there's been a single Armada toy about which I
>haven't had something unpleasant to say.
But really, isn't that true of MOST toy lines? People regard the
Transmetals as some sort of apogee of TF design, and conveniently forget
Scavenger, Depth Charge, Waspinator, with serious problems. Even among the
best Transmetals like Cheetor there are complaints to be made.
Of course, I'd argue that the flaws in Armada toys aren't the kind of
minor quibbles that have plagued most lines, but tend to be MAJOR flaws which
seriously interfere with the enjoyment of the toy, but that's a subjective
argument.
>(Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada toy at all, but a long-awaited
>G1 toy sold under the wrong banner. Happens all the time, really.)
I'm assuming this is sarcastic. And besides- Unicron is hardly a flawless
toy. He pisses me off every time I look at him. 17 years they had to figure
out how to do a Transforming planet- and we've seen Takara's engineers work
miracles with ingenious designs in recent memory. This is their third major
attempt at the planet-eater, each taking a different design approach to him...
and THIS was the best they could do?
Thoroughly mediocre and forgettable.
>Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to be as
>up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it should be
>*obvious.*
It is obvious. The Armada cartoon sucks. In terms of animation,
character development, plotting, story arc, and individual episodes... Armada
has consistently lower lows than any previous TF series, ever. And Armada's
Highs, when it DOES do something good (which it does, on occasion) barely rise
above what I'd consider mediocre from any other incarnation of TF.
The cartoon really, really blows.
On the plus side- the cartoon also appears to be at least ATTEMPTING to do
something with the characters and the universe, pushing the boundaries of what
TF is, and trying to do something new with it. Car Robots/RiD, fun as the US
translation of it was, was a deliberate bottle show that didn't 'do' anything
of any significance, at all. So Armada at least gets points for effort.
And, you know, something has to be the worst. Depending on how you count
things, we've had between eight and 14 seasons of Transformers. Armada is, by
any side-by-side comparison I make, worse than any of them, including
Headmasters and Neo. Yeah, it sucks that we got a 'worst' cartoon now, just as
TF is making a big push in America. It sucks that the toyline is succeeding
despite it, and it sucks that they chose to CONTINUE Armada with the next
year's series but... well... Someone has to be worst. It's just what we're
getting this year.
>I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
>being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys or the
>horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
Now, that's just inaccurate about the articulation, and you know it.
A better way of saying it would be, 'Armada's drop in articulation is
equivalent to the sudden change in design approach for the movie-era
characters, relative to what came before.'
Where, isn't that better? Well, or at least more accurate? You equate it
to a wrong-headed design choice in G1!
The names I agree with you. Someone else on this thread had a rant about
TFU Inferno and Ratchet. I point out that X-brawn has a 'thing' on his head
that at least vaguely reminds me of one of those reflector-things doctors used
to wear.
http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/nekotom/BEAST/bw328_04.jpg
But I agree on the Inferno/Red Alert thing. It baffles me. What, they
didn't want to have three Red Alert's on the shelf in the same year? How about
not making that Fugly PX Red Alert the same character? That's not an adequate
excuse!
I think there are two name things going on. One is name re-use, which no
one LIKES, but can sorta grudgingly be accepted. The other is INAPPROPRIATE
name re-use, like the Inferno/RA thing. And that's more to the core of the
problem. It's almost as if they didn't care. Except remove the 'almost' and
'as if' parts.
> So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when Transformers
>fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
Here's my problem. You make no mention of Dreamwave. Indeed, per my last
recollection, you're not reading the DW comics.
The Core TF marketing devices, the cartoons and the toys themselves...
suck. But the comics are GOOD. The beginning reader books based on Armada
episodes are LEAGUES better than the cartoon itself, and almost make the story
seem GOOD in places. There's a TF novel trilogy being published right now.
It's not Shakespeare, but it's not fanwank either, and it's at least trying new
stuff and is reasonably readable. Dreamwave is doing profiles for every TF...
ever, basically. We'll be getting profiles for all those Mini-con nobodies
from Armada. We're off for our second TWW flashback tale, the new G1 ongoing
shows all the signs of escaping the 'Optimus Prime Rools DooD' mire that's so
often plagued Transformers and actually continuing on to fourth year characters
and BEYOND. The Armada comic is actually GOOD. And much as I may joke about
the constant reuse of Mirage's name, ArMirage is my favorite character in it.
We're getting a Beast Wars miniseries next year. Wreckers and Primeval
Dawn will finally be picked up, and the Botcon comic is gonna come out several
times a year. The Fan Club is finally getting started.
You choose to blind yourself to all the GOOD TF stuff, and then you
complain that all the stuff you DO see sucks, therefore ALL TF sucks.
A logical argument worthy of Catherine Coulter. Or Raksha.
(And I say that with nothing but fondness and respect... for Raksha.)
>Nice to be back. Which is a pretty silly thing to say, since I never really
>left, but I couldn't think of how else to end this thing.
Well, how about ending it by wondering why the LISCENCED TF material is
good, but the material being produced by Hasbro/Takara... is not?
And maybe positing that it's because the people who PAY HASBRO MONEY for
the right to produce TF stuff actually want to do Transformers, and want to
produce a quality product- while Hasbro doesn't.
It was said elsewhere on this thread, Armada feels like it was rushed into
production and done half-assed. This was the series they killed Transtech and
ported over RiD- to give them an extra year to 'get it right,' to produce.
In the last year TF's sales have skyrocketed, and it's exploded. There's
gonna be a movie. We're getting reissues, nostalgia-driven lines, repaint
lines, and are basically getting one comic per week published in the US alone.
TF should be getting attention LAVISHED on it, to protect this and promote
it to grow! Individualized packaging, carefully written bios, catalogs,
inserts, play-backdrops (all a staple of the Gi Joe line in the last few years)
should be happening. Instead, we're getting LESS effort put into the core
line. Tech-specs were cut. At first with the excuse of there not being time
in the production schedule to write then, and then TPTB basically admitting
they didn't think they were important. Packaging has standardized, to the
point that many characters barely get a name anymore even, again in the name of
expense. The same molds are released two or more times in the same year, as
the same characters.
I see no indication, now OR historically, that Hasbro has any idea how to
produce a Transformers line. The design change in season 2 and season 4 comes
to mind, as does the decision to kill the nice-looking good-selling Transmetals
in favor of evil-looking poor-selling TM2's. As for Armada and TFU... Hasbro's
attitude seems to be 'anything with the 'Transformers' name on it sells, so why
bother?' It's just a cash cow for them to milk at the moment.
If Hasbro's treatment of TF SuXXorS... don't be afraid to say it. 'Cause
there's truth found there, you know? And... it does.
I love Transformers, I think Hasbro has done some great thigns with and
for TF in the last two years, but by on whole, I think they don't know what
they're doing, and are giving TF the shaft out of that ignorance. Which is
really a shame, because they've only been doing this for about 20 years, and
all the people who put up their own money to license the universe seem to get
it right. I have to wonder why Hasbro can't find its own collective ass with
two hands and a map when it comes to TF of late... but there it is.
Hasbro's treatment of TF SuXXorS. Everyone else seems to get it right
though.
-Derik
"You have zero talent. Give up writing." -Yuki Eiri, Gravitation
"Ebola is a horrible disease, one that EVEN homeopathy is powerless to
treat." -Isla9
Hasbro's treatment of TF SuXXorS
David Willis
> Has anyone got the black Reptron yet? I want to know if his
tech-spec is
> the same.
It's different. I can't remember the specifics, but his bio is more along
the lines of
Mototron's, in the way that he's one of the "evil" bots. Well, what passes
for
evil in Go-Bots anyway.
> >I also saw the Speed-Bot that comes with the video pack-in. It's a shame
that
> >he's the only character who comes with the video, since I already own two
> >Speed-Bots and have no desire to own a third. The cartoon does look like
fun,
> >though.
>
> Ah, he's actually hitting stores now? *makes note to look some
more.*
Yeah. Since at least OTFCC. Phil Zeman's Go-Bot video was playing in the
Mini-Con playroom throughout. Until it got nabbed at the end. (I swear, I
knew the "FREE VIDEO" text Hasbro plastered all over the case would be
trouble...)
> Optimus Primal's TOY looks like this;
> http://members.aol.com/regenesis0/primal-tfu.gif
>
> As he appears in the TFU comic?
> http://www.otfcc.com/images/2003TomartAdRGB.jpg
>
> WHY? AARUGH. Why do they make the colors suck? And why is Primal
BROWN?
> I've seen the toy!! PRIMAL IS NOT BROWN. The actual toy has a GOOD
color
> scheme.
....my Primal is pretty darn brown. The fur? Yeah, brown. He's brown,
red,
yellow, and dark green. Dunno what color *yours* is, but...
As long as we've got that Tomart ad up for discussion, lemme mention
something.
The Tomart ad was colored back when those *were* the colors for the
toys. (I.E, Razorclaw and Reptilion, and Snarl's tail.) Between then and
when
the comic was actually printed, the colors were corrected to look like the
toys. On the TF:Universe comic cover, Reptilion's lost his Jolly
Rancherness,
and Razorclaw's been teaked. Snarl's tail is now gold. (Though, too bad it
was too late for Striker's differences.)
--David
www.itswalky.com
Derik Smith
>tech-spec is
>> the same.
>
>It's different. I can't remember the specifics, but his bio is more along
>the lines of
>Mototron's, in the way that he's one of the "evil" bots. Well, what passes
>for
>evil in Go-Bots anyway.
Hrm. Anything about enhanced vision, lour roars, or verbally abusive
behavior?
>....my Primal is pretty darn brown. The fur? Yeah, brown. He's brown,
>red,
>yellow, and dark green. Dunno what color *yours* is, but...
http://www.tfkenkon.com/collection/act104/TFU_primal13.jpg
http://www.otfcc.com/images/2003TomartAdRGB.jpg
Fine, he's brown. He's not BRUNETTE. Nor is he bright green.
I've has a strong instinctive aversion to christmass apes ever since that
movie with Dunston.
>As long as we've got that Tomart ad up for discussion, lemme mention
>something.
>The Tomart ad was colored back when those *were* the colors for the
>toys. (I.E, Razorclaw and Reptilion, and Snarl's tail.) Between then and
>when
>the comic was actually printed, the colors were corrected to look like the
>toys. On the TF:Universe comic cover, Reptilion's lost his Jolly
>Rancherness,
Ah, commendible. One could wish there'd been time to do the same with the
actual, you know, toy packaging. But I guess they must have been changing
plastic and paint colors in the molds up to the last minute, surely days if not
weeks after the packaging had already gone to press. I salute Hasbro's heroic
effort, doggedly laboring against the wire until the finished product was
perfect and non-garish!
No, I'm SERIOUS. I LIKE Reptilicon's toy color scheme. I'm SORRY if it
sounded SARCASTIC.
-Derik...
David Willis
abusive
> behavior?
I have no memory of it besides concept.
> >....my Primal is pretty darn brown. The fur? Yeah, brown. He's brown,
> >red,
> >yellow, and dark green. Dunno what color *yours* is, but...
>
> http://www.tfkenkon.com/collection/act104/TFU_primal13.jpg
> http://www.otfcc.com/images/2003TomartAdRGB.jpg
>
> Fine, he's brown. He's not BRUNETTE. Nor is he bright green.
Looking at Remy's photo and looking at my Primal, it looks like the red
in the photo is up a bit too much. Primal's a very chocolate brown.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Ethan Hammond
>
> > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> >NOTHING bad is said..
>
> I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
I use mine to recreate Watership Down. *THUMBS UP*
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Ethan Hammond
>
> That said, I ~still~ want an Optimus Prime plushie. ;)
A Grimlock plushie would be more kawaii!!!!
Ethan Hammond
>
> > That said, I ~still~ want an Optimus Prime plushie. ;)
>
> Hmmm...I'm having flashbacks of a post a couple of years back, with links
to
> pics of a cute, naked blond chick playing with her custom-made TF UFO
toys.
This will cure you of those heathen thoughts.
http://cirrus.spaceports.com/~sailor/rini/sumo.htm
Ethan Hammond
>
> What's odd is that they had plenty of time to work on these things but
> seemingly dropped the ball on it. My feeling is that while they're
> working on the design of the toys, they should be working on the backstory
> and characterization to go with them. Maybe they should take a page from
> the GIJoe staff and apply that to TFs. Larry Hama is writing the
> filecards for the Joes (on a small tangent, why is it that THAT line
> doesn't have to have tri-lingual packaging yet everything else does?),
> perhaps they should get Furman or someone to write up the bios for TFs?
Maybe cause GI Joe is a Real American Hero?
Jess
>
>http://cirrus.spaceports.com/~sailor/rini/sumo.htm
>
>
That almost cured me of my ability to see. Yeesh!
No more sigs for me. Really. Never.
Please remove pants to contact me.
http://hometown.aol.com/itsjesseb/beastwarsguide.html
Updated Every Sunday! Except the Sundays where I dont update. Then its not
updated on that Sunday. But maybe.
Zac Bond
"Richard Mistron" <orio...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:pPS4b.5725$Lk5....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > (Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada
> > toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner.
> Happens all
> > the time, really.)
>
> I agree, though others would prefer to scoff your statement rather
than
> accept it as a differing opinion. No offense meant, but maybe it was
the
I don't think it's an issue of opinion; it's an issue of fact. Is
there evidence that the Unicron toy was designed to be a part of G1
back in the 80's or early 90's and was just put on hold all these
years? If not, then he can't be a G1 figure. End of story.
> > or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys
>
> Watch out for those that will throw the Throttlebots in your face on
that
> statement. Never mind that Armada Scavenger has what, five points of
> articulation? G1 Jazz has eight, sure it's all in the arms. But
there are
> toys out there that can back this up.
By my count, Scavenger has 8 points of articulation; 12 if you count
the hands.
-Zac
Ethan Hammond
>
> >This will cure you of those heathen thoughts.
> >
> >http://cirrus.spaceports.com/~sailor/rini/sumo.htm
>
> That almost cured me of my ability to see. Yeesh!
ROTFLMAO Don't spoil it for everyone else.
Often-Wrong Zobovor
them all tonight, though. I already wrote up a nice, long e-mail to Steve-o
tonight that clarifies a few points, exemplifies a few others, and passes a
handful over entirely in favor of going off on wild tangents. If he gives me
permission, I'll post it here along with his comments that prompted it.]
Zac Bond wrote:
>I buy only Transformers, because they transform. The concept and the
>engineering involved are what interests me.
That's a valid explanation, but it still doesn't explain the underlying
behavior. Now, you've expressed reluctance to have your behavior examined
(chalk one up for the "getting all worked up and defensive" category, thanks
for participating), so this is a rhetorical question directed at no specific
person. Actually, it's directed squarely at me. So, Zobovor, when you say you
collect robot dolls because they have clever transformations, that still
doesn't address the question of why you collect robot dolls in the first place.
Why Transformers, specifically, and not, say, automobile engines, which
arguably have even more sophisticated mechanical engineering aspects? (The
answer, of course, is because Transformers represents something from my
childhood that I'm unwilling to let go of. Well, that and automobile engines
are heavy and greasy and cost slightly more than some Japanese toys.)
>As a kid, I loved the G1 toys, but I can guarantee I would have
>preferred the Armada figures when I was 8. They don't permanently
>break when handled roughly, the decals don't rub away, the legs
>usually seperate and actually look like legs, and they often have
>luxuries like knees and elbows...
No, they don't permanetly break when handled roughly. They just have an
infuriating multitude of parts that pop off constantly during normal play. In
other words, the toys are in effect *designed* to break as soon as a child
handles them. My son is almost seven years old, and he doesn't play with any
of his Armada toys at this point. He's gotten tired of having to constantly
search for Red Alert's head and arms and doors, integral parts that actually
make the toy worth playing with, and I can't say I blame him at all for giving
up. (And don't get me started on Optimus Prime. That's not a trailer. It's
the unhold spawn of Satan and an Erector set.)
And there was a time, very recently in fact, when "luxuries" like elbows and
knee joints were part of the standard design philosophy. The toys have been
stripped down so that they now only have the bare minimum of joints needed for
transformation, which is a terribly backwards step. Yes, I'll be the first to
admit that fewer joints means that the toy is easier for kids to transform,
since you don't have limbs flopping all over the place that aren't aligned
correctly. G1 Kup is one of the easiest toys in the world to transform because
it's *impossible* to get his legs wrong somehow. If the idea behind the
oversimplified toys is to make them more kid-friendly, then Hasbro completely
sabotaged that notion by giving almost every toy the ability to fall apart when
you look at it cross-eyed. The toys *have* no play value if you're a little
kid and have lost their damn feet or wings or heads.
Armada is the first toy line I've viewed both as an adult collector and
vicariously through the eyes of my second-grade son. I see it as an abysmal
failure both as a children's toy line and as an adult collectible. Give me
more Playskool Go-Bots, I say.
--
Zobovor
"Reluctantly, Trillian swallowed. It was either that or spit it out, and it
did in fact taste pretty good."--Mostly Harmless
ZMFTS: http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
To e-mail me, chop that Minicon in half.
Often-Wrong Zobovor
>> As for colour schemes, that's purely a matter of personal taste and
>> thus there is no qualifiable "right" or "wrong" scheme. Though again,
>> it would be nice if you could be specific.
>
>I'd be interested in specific examples as well. IMO, I can't think of a
>single Armada toy that's been released that suffers from a bad color
>scheme.
The one that comes to mind immediately is Wheeljack. I love the way that toy
is designed. It effectively eliminates every major complaint I had about the
first batch of Armada Supercons. He's large, he's sexy, and he is quite
obviously designed to resemble G1 Sideswipe, regardless of whatever random
trademark Hasbro slapped on the toy packaging. What totally ruins the
aesthetics of the toy, though, are those obnoxious yellow racing stripes. They
just look so totally and completely *wrong* on that toy that I'm almost tempted
to say it was a manufacturing error. And I'm not just saying that it doesn't
look right on Sideswipe as a character. I mean those stripes make the toy look
really, really ugly.
Airazor is another one. The original Airazor was molded out of four different
colors of plastic, including the vacuum-metalized paint, but the new Airazor
eliminates almost the entire color template. Her white parts were changed to
muddy purple, her yellow parts were changed to muddy purple, her blue parts
were *also* changed to muddy purple, and just to liven things up a bit, they
threw in a Minicon in muddy purple. Oh, and she's also got some muddy black
parts that are almost indistinguishable from the muddy purple parts under
normal lighting conditions. She's got absolutely no color contrast to her. I
think she's the most boring-looking Transformer ever devised.
Along the same lines is the Oceanglide/Waterlog/Stormcloud set, who are all
cast in exactly the same drab brownish-orange rust color. This only serves to
reinforce their anonymity, prevents my ability to tell any of them apart, and I
hold the color scheme singularly responsible for the fact that these stupid
things are clogging the pegs at every store I visit.
There are other color choices that I only marginally dislike, such as Thrust
and Tidal Wave and Powerlinx Optimus Prime and Terrorsaur and Rhinox and
Starscream, but they're not worth ranting about. Also, some of the toys I was
thinking of are actually going to be sold under the Universe banner, not
Armada, so I guess I don't get to complain about them in this post.
Just so this post isn't a complete and total downer, I really like Skywarp's
colors. I also like kitty-cats. (Turns out Crosswise is a boy-cat, not a
girl-cat. Don't I feel silly.)
Aberration
> Pyre wrote:
>
>
>>>As for colour schemes, that's purely a matter of personal taste and
>>>thus there is no qualifiable "right" or "wrong" scheme. Though again,
>>>it would be nice if you could be specific.
>>
>>I'd be interested in specific examples as well. IMO, I can't think of a
>>single Armada toy that's been released that suffers from a bad color
>>scheme.
>
>
> The one that comes to mind immediately is Wheeljack. I love the way that toy
> is designed. It effectively eliminates every major complaint I had about the
> first batch of Armada Supercons. He's large, he's sexy, and he is quite
> obviously designed to resemble G1 Sideswipe, regardless of whatever random
> trademark Hasbro slapped on the toy packaging. What totally ruins the
> aesthetics of the toy, though, are those obnoxious yellow racing stripes. They
> just look so totally and completely *wrong* on that toy that I'm almost tempted
> to say it was a manufacturing error. And I'm not just saying that it doesn't
> look right on Sideswipe as a character. I mean those stripes make the toy look
> really, really ugly.
What are your feelings on the Japanese version of Wheeljack, with the
thinner blue racing stripes? (which, incidentally, will also be
released by Hasbro eventually. Not as a Powerlinx repaint, but a
running change that will just pop up without much fanfare.)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Gyumaoh
>I've been tempted to say is some caustic, negative remark about how much
>Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame
>wars,
>and generally not be particularly uplifting.
Many of us want to say these things ourselves, but don't want to be flamed by
the usual "you have no right to complain!!" idiots. (They seem to always pop
up whenever I mention the flaws in Rhino's piss-poor G1 DVD sets.)
Go ahead and post away. BTW, I miss your cat posts. If this forum hasn't been
receptive to them, try rec.pets.cats.
Mark Brown
news:n3X4b.122862$0v4.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Desperado00" <despe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> > >NOTHING bad is said..
> > I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
> I use mine to recreate Watership Down. *THUMBS UP*
As who? He's too skinny for Bigwig, and the wrong colour for Hazel-rah or
Fiver.
Mark
"Though a TM2 Stampy would make a good Woundwart."
Mark Brown
news:n3X4b.122862$0v4.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> > >NOTHING bad is said..
> > I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
> I use mine to recreate Watership Down. *THUMBS UP*
As who? He's too skinny for Bigwig, and the wrong colour for Hazel-rah or
Ka Faraq Gatri
Zobovor) wrote:
>I've been doing a lot of thinking, about growing older and moving on. No,
>wait. That was somebody else.
>
>One of the reasons I haven't posted lately is because just about everything
>I've been tempted to say is some caustic, negative remark about how much
>Transformers sucks at the moment. It would piss people off, cause flame wars,
>and generally not be particularly uplifting. Then I got to wondering why I
>should stifle my comments and basically say nothing for the duration of
>however-long-Transformers-is-going-to-suck. That could take years. (And this
>place was never alt.toys.transformers.shiny-happy-robots to begin with.) So, I
>decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of bottling it all up,
>to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of bitching that
>some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed and marketed to my
>exact specifications. I think that's perfectly justifiable, don't you?
Depends on the content of the complaint, really. From what I see
here, I think you might just be burned out on TFs for the moment.
>
>Of course, it doesn't *always* make me happy. I've had a lot of very nasty
>things to say about Transformers in recent months, so one of the other
>questions I've asked myself is why I continue to buy toys if they're pissing me
>off so much. I don't think there's been a single Armada toy about which I
>haven't had something unpleasant to say.
I feel the same way about the TM2s. I kept buying them in the hope
I'd find one I liked, and in the end, had nothing to show for it but a
lot less money and many lumps of ugly misshapen plastic. Well, the
basics aren't that bad, but I could have passed on the larger ones.
> (Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada
>toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner. Happens all
>the time, really.)
Huh? You say you don't like any Armada, but then exclude a figure
you do like from the line? Hardly seems fair in my book. And Unicron
definately doesn't fit any of the G1 lines. It's definately an Armada
toy. It's unfair IMO to state that it isn't Armada because "Armada
sucks and this doesn't."
Sometimes I genuinely wonder why nobody else seems to be as
>up-in-arms as I am over the sucktitude that is Armada. I mean, it should be
>*obvious.* I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
>being so lousy or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys or the
>horrible name choices and just-plain-bad color schemes.
Sometimes I genuinely wonder why some people don't like Armada. The
cartoon is very G1ish, down to the frequent animation errors and lame
plot devices. The toys are nicely designed with functional and
occasionally brilliant gimmicks. The articulation isn't as great as BW
and RiD, but they're not G1 bricks, either. Most of the large figures
have arm & leg articulation, many can turn their heads (though a few
could have had the ability added easily), and with a little
imagination, some quite nice poses can be done. Pants-mode Prime and
Megatron are bricks below the waist, but that's a trade-off for
stability. I currently have the Tidal Wave-Megatron combo directly
above my head at my computer desk. I wouldn't dare try that with, say,
Omega Prime. I'd have a headache once Prime's leg joints gave out and
he came crashing down under his own weight. And being color-blind, I'm
not the best judge, but I have no problems with the color schemes in
Armada.
>
>Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated with
>me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
>Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who think
>of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think that's the
>long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
>expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
>people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is capable of
>being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than it is.
> So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when Transformers
>fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
I like Transformers because they're fun. I don't look to it for
greatness. For one thing, every version has had its flaws. You just
have to find the steel in the slag. If I want greatness, I'll read
Shakespeare, not Transformers. Or if you want to keep it in the comics
medium, I'll read the Dark Phoenix Saga. If I want a great movie, I'll
watch Patton, or Young Frankenstein (depending on my mood), not TFTM.
But the TF franchise is _fun_, which is what counts to me.
Transformers IMO has never aspired to greatness, apart from great
sales, so it's missing the point to attribute greatness to the
franchise.
Beats the heck out of Trek or Star Wars these days, though. ;-)
>
>So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's okay
>to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than therapy.
>(Well, as long as I don't start importing the Japanese stuff, anyway.)
>Eventually, my kids are going to outgrow *their* toys, at which point I'll
>probably feel pretty silly. (Immediately after which, I'll stop feeling silly
>long enough to realize I get to add their toys to my collection. Heh.)
>
>Nice to be back. Which is a pretty silly thing to say, since I never really
>left, but I couldn't think of how else to end this thing.
See? It's about _fun_. If you're not having fun with the current
product, take a break. I gave up X-Men two years ago after 15 years of
collecting, for much the same reason. I wasn't having fun. I haven't
bought any X-Men comics since, though I still enjoy the classic stuff.
We'll be here when you get back, and fill you in on what you missed.
Dave Connell aka Ka Faraq Gatri
kfg...@rcn.com
I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America,
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation UNDER GOD,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Xis
dislike list syncs almost perfectly with my like list.
"Often-Wrong Zobovor" <zob...@aol.comettor> wrote:
> The one that comes to mind immediately is Wheeljack. What totally ruins
the
> aesthetics of the toy, though, are those obnoxious yellow racing stripes.
I like the yellow stripes. They tie the color scheme together. The Japanese
version features thin blue stripes instead which makes the color scheme too
busy, IMO.
> Airazor is another one. I think she's the most boring-looking
Transformer
> ever devised.
I picked up Airrazor this weekend, and was really impressed with the figure.
The dark color scheme makes the figure look like a spy.
> Along the same lines is the Oceanglide/Waterlog/Stormcloud set, who are
all
> cast in exactly the same drab brownish-orange rust color.
One of my favorite Minicon sets, I wish all of the sets were released with
unified color schemes.
> There are other color choices that I only marginally dislike, such as
Thrust
> and Tidal Wave and Powerlinx Optimus Prime and Terrorsaur and Rhinox and
> Starscream, but they're not worth ranting about.
I *love* the color scheme for Terrorsaur, and am fond of Rhinox's. But I
lump them with the Universe toys, as they share a similar asthetic.
--
There's the devil to pay,
and he can keep the change
Aaron F. Bourque
>I remember something Skyflight said once, something which
>resonated with me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think
>people who think of Transformers as cool will probably like the
>new stuff. Most people who think of Transformers as great will
>probably be less thrilled."
Slyflight's bat-shit crazy.
Or was. He's dead now, and we're "not supposed to speak ill of the dead."
But c'mon, Zob!
SKYFLIGHT!!!!
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
Women supposedly mature at a faster rate than men
If that is true, how come they live so much longer then . . ?
Nothing says maturity like transforming robot toys for ten-year-olds
It's called "disability," not "inability."
Mark Brown
news:n3X4b.122862$0v4.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
> > >NOTHING bad is said..
> > I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
> I use mine to recreate Watership Down. *THUMBS UP*
As who? He's too skinny for Bigwig, and the wrong colour for Hazel-rah or
FREDRICK FELTMAN
dolls. I mean..most of them turned into a vehicle or plane or something..so
they are model toys..like Hot wheels only bigger. GiJoe Actionfigures are
dolls!! Spiderman ActionFigures are dolls!! Especially if you can change
their uniforms!!!
"Galenraff" <gale...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jr37lv87c21ldu26q...@4ax.com...
> <snip family history>
>
> Parts of this resonates with my childhood, as well, and it's often
> been a theory of mine that collecting TFs and watching cartoons is
> very much related to my refusal to grow up and be a full-fledged
> adult. Whenever someone asks me how old I am, it staggers me that I'm
> 23...I don't feel like I should be that far out of my teens already -
> and I suspect that's just going to get worse as I get older :)
>
> > Then I remember something Skyflight said once, something which resonated
with
> > me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think people who think of
> > Transformers as cool will probably like the new stuff. Most people who
think
> > of Transformers as great will probably be less thrilled." I think
that's the
> > long and short of it right there. It's not that I have unrealistic
> > expectations. I just have very *high* expectations. Higher than most
> > people's, probably. I *know* that Transformers as a franchise is
capable of
> > being extraordinarily great, that I *know* it can be so much better than
it is.
> > So, I suppose it's only natural that I'm to be disappointed when
Transformers
> > fails to achieve the levels of greatness I know it's capable of.
>
> I sometimes think about things like that, too. There's such a great
> depth of better stories available, and it frustrates me to think that
> the creators of TFs aren't using them very often. War Within did,
> though. So I see that the spirit is still there in some.
>
> It turns out that there's plenty of other things I'm liking right now.
> The reissues, the DVD sets, I had a good time at OTFCC...I think a big
> part of any frustration I have about the brand right now is the fact
> that I don't like the "central" or "main" line very much. The stuff I
> like is on the periphery, and out of the spotlight, whereas I feel
> that's the stuff most worthy of the spotlight. So I just have to
> recognize that, and just be happy collecting what I like to collect.
>
> > So, anyway. After much pondering, I've reached the conclusion that it's
okay
> > to continue collecting toys, on the grounds that it's cheaper than
therapy.
>
> Depends on your health plan. As it turns out, in my case, therapy is
> a bit cheaper. :) I'm not going for TF-related reasons, though, so
> it's apples and oranges, really.
>
> > a perfectly healthy, well-adjusted adult who plays with
> > robot dolls meant for seven-year-olds
>
> I have maintained, and will always maintain, that TFs are not dolls.
> They're action figures!
>
> -----------Galenraff-------------
> Other Minicon names that could go backwards just
> like Overrun becoming Run-Over?
>
> 1-Leader, Wayrun, Armlong, Master-zap, Logwater,
> Jetram, Outblack, Agewreck, and Plugspark.
Xis
"Aaron F. Bourque" <aaronb...@aol.comdotaolat> wrote:
> From: zob...@aol.comettor (Often-Wrong Zobovor)
>
> >I remember something Skyflight said once, something which
> >resonated with me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think
> >people who think of Transformers as cool will probably like the
> >new stuff. Most people who think of Transformers as great will
> >probably be less thrilled."
>
> Slyflight's bat-shit crazy.
>
> Or was. He's dead now, and we're "not supposed to speak ill of the dead."
It's true he said some crazy stuff when he was around, but I agree with his
above statement 100%. I interpret it a little different then Zobovor,
though. If you think Transformers are great, you have a lot invested in them
emotionally (and probably financially). When a new toyline comes out, if
it's radically different than what came before (see RiD -> Armada, or G2 ->
BW) , you might have difficulty coping. Where if you just think they are
cool, you're less hung up on the particulars, and can judge the new line
objectively.
Suspsy
> > (Unicron is, naturally, not an Armada
> > toy at all, but a long-awaited G1 toy sold under the wrong banner.
> Happens all
> > the time, really.)
>
> I agree, though others would prefer to scoff your statement rather than
> accept it as a differing opinion. No offense meant, but maybe it was the way
> it was delivered.
Well, you have to admit that Walky, DVD, Sipher, etc., are quite
correct when they point out that, like it or loathe it, Unicron is an
Armada toy through and through. Sure, the character is originally from
G1, but to say that the toy is also G1 is like saying that a 2004
Lexus really belongs in the company of some Model-T fords.
> > I don't understand the people who make excuses for the cartoon
> > being so lousy
>
> It may be because they genuinely enjoy it. I don't know.
As I noted in my previous post, the latest episodes have actually been
quite, quite good in terms of storyline and characters. Starscream's
ongoing struggle with his guilty conscience for example, or Sideways'
playing of both sides.
> > or the toys having less articulation than most G1 toys
>
> Watch out for those that will throw the Throttlebots in your face on that
> statement.
And the 1988 Headmasters and Targetmasters. And the Firecons. And the
Sparkabots, the Duocons, the Seekers, the Predacons, the Pretender
Monsters, the Mini-Bots . . .
Never mind that Armada Scavenger has what, five points of
> articulation? G1 Jazz has eight, sure it's all in the arms. But there are
> toys out there that can back this up.
Scavenger is articulated at the antennae, head, shoulders(two joints),
elbows, knuckles, thumbs, and waist. That makes *thirteen* points.
Plus his canopy opens up and his legs stomp. Eat it, Jazz.
> As Daniel said, that's a matter of opinion. I happen to dislike a lot of the
> color choices used lately, especially on Galvatron, Hot Shot and his
> repaint, the Cyclonus repaint, and a few others I can't think of at the
I'm the polar opposite. Were it not for the fact that I'm trying to
budget, I'd have gotten Galvatron a long time ago, along with
Powerlinx Prime and Thundercracker to boot. The PX recolours, IMHO,
are all superb. Same with TFU.
Susp, I mean, c'mon, DEPTH CHARGE.
"Comin 'atcha, X." -Depth Charge
Xis
> No, they don't permanetly break when handled roughly. They just have an
> infuriating multitude of parts that pop off constantly during normal play.
In
> other words, the toys are in effect *designed* to break as soon as a child
> handles them.
Absolutely my biggest complaint about Armada. Quite a few of the Minicons
come apart during transformation. Instability completely ruins a toy, IMO. I
hate both the Race Team and Street Speed Team because of this flaw.
On the other hand, none of the supercons suffer from this, in my experience.
And the minicons that don't suffer from instability are very nice indeed.
FREDRICK FELTMAN
treatment of Action Figure Lines in general(GiJoe, Pokemon, Starwars, etc.).
They do the same thing in their other toy lines. And Starwars fans are
waaaaay more Rabid then Transfans..Their nuts!! And, Hasbro is releasing the
same toys..in different colors..or crappy designs(the latest R2D2 comes to
mind..his gawddarn legs don't move!!! All that just to add in a rope with a
magnet on the end to drag C3Po!!). As A General rule..because HAsbro is one
of THE Big Toy companies(along with Mattel who is just as bad, if not
worse), they feel they are so big, they can do what they want..and if it
doesn't sell too well, they won't lose much because they have all the other
lines they sell, too.
Examples of Crap:
GiJoe 3.75" figs..no rubberbands..Scarlett looks like she's wearing a Life
preserver.
GiJoe vehicles look awkward and totally unrealistic, unlike the old
stuff(obviously not real, but realistic enough that they could be!)
R2D2 mentioned above.
3 packs of Droids..not good molds of previous releases.
Re-doing SW figs they already did..and making them worse(Leia(4x)Chewie, Han
on Hoth, YODA!!!)
Micro Machines...They bought the line just so they could corner the market
on ALL Starwars Merchandise..it died..they re-released it this year...UGGH!
Board Games..They own Parker Bros. and Milton Bradley..they release a
Transformers Armada game..the same game as Starwars Epic Duels..just with
Transformers(not that I didn't buy it..just felt it was overpriced($5 more
than Epic Duels) for what I got. They could have released it as an expansion
to Epic Duels.) As it is, it isn't selling as well as it should. I won't
even get started on Monopoly and Risk!!
Pokemon: They added in some electronics to em..and ruined the line..so all
those kids who were trying to collect the original 150..not to mention the
next 100 and the latest 150 or so..can't get the ones to "Get 'em all!!!!
Batman: They stupidly lost the line..but inundated stores with sooo much
product before they lost..when they knew they were losing it..that 9 months
later we still have TONS of Hasbro product on the shelf..and most of it
isn't clearance!! That..added to the Mattel Batman crapola is ..too much.
And Justice League started out ok if not for shortpacking..then they started
on the different colors..now added Gismos for Superman and Batman..and still
no Gawdarn HAwkgirl!! And only 1 villain..Lex Luthor in a suit with a Robot
bodysuit to put over it!! And only in a shortpacked 2-pack no less!! grrr.
Sometimes I hate working at a Toy store..other times I am glad I do.
The MAdd1!
"Derik Smith" <regen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030902010820...@mb-m17.aol.com...
David Willis
"Aaron F. Bourque" <aaronb...@aol.comdotaolat> wrote in message
news:20030902103216...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> From: zob...@aol.comettor (Often-Wrong Zobovor)
>
> >I remember something Skyflight said once, something which
> >resonated with me on a profound level. He said, "I tend to think
> >people who think of Transformers as cool will probably like the
> >new stuff. Most people who think of Transformers as great will
> >probably be less thrilled."
>
> Slyflight's bat-shit crazy.
Skyflight's quote there resonates with me on a profound level, too.
A profoundly offensive level. I mean, obviously, people who don't
like Transformers as much as I, the Transman, do, will like the
stuff I don't like. Because they're not true fans. It assumes a
polarity in tastes that simply doesn't exist, centered around a very
self-originated beginning point. There's A) What I, the true
Transformer fan, like, and B) the heathens. It's an entirely
emotional, irrational knee-jerk us-versus-them concept.
Really, it's about as trollish a comment as you can make.
Glad to see, Zobovor, that your view of the fandom is just
as self-centered. /:)
--David
It's all sort of nostalgic, really. You're like Hot Shot to his
Hot Rod.
www.itswalky.com
Steve-o Stonebraker
>> filecards for the Joes (on a small tangent, why is it that THAT line
>> doesn't have to have tri-lingual packaging yet everything else does?),
>
Yeah, and Real Americans don't speak spanish.
Oh, they do? Okay. Nevermind.
--Steve-o
--
Steve Stonebraker | http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/
sst...@yahoo.com | Transformers, astrophysics, comics, games, cartoons.
Adrian
> This will cure you of those heathen thoughts.
Lord Satan, I salute you! >:)=)
> http://cirrus.spaceports.com/~sailor/rini/sumo.htm
Whoa! The Sailor scouts really let themselves go after their series ended.
Poor, poor Sailor Jupiter. She was my favorite. :( *weeps*
--
Adrian
Mark Brown
*SNIP*
GAH!
Sorry about that. Cyberus said three times that it couldn't post.
Mark
"Is it too much to ask for just ONE WEEK where Cyberus doesn't frell up?!?"
Ka Faraq Gatri
Zobovor) wrote:
>
>Armada is the first toy line I've viewed both as an adult collector and
>vicariously through the eyes of my second-grade son. I see it as an abysmal
>failure both as a children's toy line and as an adult collectible. Give me
>more Playskool Go-Bots, I say.
I've got a young cousin who absolutely loves Armada - both the show
and the toys. He's been somewhat less impressed with the older stuff -
G1, BW and RiD - that I've brought over. So it seems some kids like
Armada. Possibly even the majority, if the sales success people have
mentioned is accurate.
Suspsy
> It's true he said some crazy stuff when he was around, but I agree with his
> above statement 100%. I interpret it a little different then Zobovor,
> though. If you think Transformers are great, you have a lot invested in them
> emotionally (and probably financially). When a new toyline comes out, if
> it's radically different than what came before (see RiD -> Armada, or G2 ->
> BW) , you might have difficulty coping. Where if you just think they are
> cool, you're less hung up on the particulars, and can judge the new line
> objectively.
As I said before, I definitely consider Transformers great and I have
invested quite a bit into them financially and emotionally. At the
same time, however, I don't perceive them beyond what they really
are---cool toys and fictional characters. And I've never had a problem
with any of the lines.
I guess what I'm getting it is that I think it's pretty silly to try
and categorize TF fans into "great" and "cool" categories. If you're a
fan, you're a fan, plain and simple. No one fan has any right to get
up on a box and claim that his or her opinions carry more weight
simply because they feel they've invested far more emotionally or
financially into a children's toyline.
In any case, if you've got a problem with the current crop of TFs, the
fault ultimately rests on your shoulders, not Hasbro's. You're the one
who needs to resolve something, not them.
Susp
"Sometimes, if you wait long enough, problems solve themselves."
-Slapdash
Often-Wrong Zobovor
permission to include my response, along with his comments that prompted them,
in a post to the newsgroup. The quoted text below is his.]
In a message dated 9/1/2003 4:28:15 PM Mountain Standard Time,
sst...@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>Hey, Zobovor. I'm not really sure what to make of this post... I like to
>think that you didn't mean a lot of it, but I'm sort of afraid that isn't
>the case.
My post was an essay that was intended to be controversial and
thought-provoking and generally raise a whole lot of eyebrows. As such, some
of my comments were deliberately extreme, and heavily laced with sarcasm, but
the exaggerations and hyperbole were laced with what I consider to be real
truths. (For the record, I wasn't the slightest bit serious about inheriting
my kids' toys. That was me being completely ridiculous.)
>As always, I'm not opposed to people expressing unhappiness with
>Transformers, but a lot of your comments go beyond that in a way which
>is very atypical for you.
I know. Even I, myself, find it strange to hear these words coming out of my
own mouth (or appearing on my own computer screen). I was actually a little
upset, at first, when I'd reached this particular epiphany because I knew I
could never go back to being the way I was before.
Merytneith once asked me why I allow Transformers to piss me off as much as it
does, and I told her the only alternative was to just not give a crap any
longer. When I stopped posting for a bit, I was dangerously close to that
point. (Whether you think it's really "dangerous" to stop obsessing over
children's toys is anyone's guess. Maybe it was the healthiest thing I ever
could have done. Who knows.) My point is that I've decided I'm not going to
allow Hasbro's treatment of the toy line to completely ruin my enjoyment of
Transformers, but I also see no reason not to complain freely about the aspects
I dislike.
One of the last things Skyflight said to me was essentially an accusation. He
said, perhaps not in so many words, that I had so much power over what other
people in the fandom think that I should be very careful about how I express my
opinions lest people start believing things just because I said it was so.
That bothered me, mainly because I already knew it was partly true. I've been
stepping on eggshells in the fandom for years, and I've grown weary of it.
I've sometimes sat on articles for hours, rewriting them and rewording them
dozens of times, making sure that I can't possibly offend anybody. I crack
jokes all the time about how "I'm Zobovor, and unintentionally pissing people
off is just what I do," but in truth it bothers me sometimes. I genuinely
believe that some people are just waiting for me to say something that they can
twist sideways and get all offended over.
So, yes. I've become uncharacteristically bitter and jaded and Raksha-esque.
I don't think it's fair that other people get to freely express their thoughts
on controversial issues without fear of retribution, but as soon as I open my
mouth, I get torn apart. You and I have talked before about how I need to
express myself carefully to avoid arguments, but it frustrates the hell out of
me that other people get to say the exact same types of things with impunity.
Haven't you noticed the people who complain bitterly about those stupid white
stripes on Prime's arms in all the Dreamwave art, for example? Those comments
go unabated. If Zobovor were to open his mouth about the Dreamwave art,
though, there'd be a 100-post flame war. That infuriates me to no end. I
don't *want* to be a celebrity in the fandom. I don't *want* people hanging on
my every word, waiting for me to make a mistake so they can jump me for some
inconsequential slip of the tongue. I didn't get to be Zobovor by being
perfect. I got where I am today by being myself, by being fun and witty and
poignant and thought-provoking. I find it terribly ironic that these are the
exact same things I tend to get jumped for nowadays.
>Repeated comments about Armada simply sucking in some objective
>fashion...
I think that you and I both know that when somebody says something sucks,
they're expressing an opinion. There's no other way to construe a statement
like that. It's a given that what they're really saying is, "I think this
sucks." I don't think the disclaimer is necessary in this case. (I've gone
into detail many times in the past about specific aspects of the show/toys that
I disliked, so it's not as though I'm offering completely unquantified opinions
here.)
>...your assertion that we adult fans are all screwed up in some way
>and are in denial if we think we're well-adjusted...
No, I said that *maybe* some people have gone through a similar experience as I
have, while *maybe* some other people haven't yet reached the conclusions I
have and are still vehemently in denial. I wasn't casting any accusations; I
was simply exploring the possibilities. (As of this writing, I've gotten
e-mails on this subject from both camps.)
>...that people who enjoy the Armada show are making excuses for it rather than
>actually liking it...
Granted, I didn't elaborate on every single thought I espoused in my essay, but
that's not what I was saying at all.
I don't believe people are pretending to like Armada. What I was saying was
that people are making excuses for the lack of articulation, for example, by
saying that all the production costs went into the gimmicks. Instead of
conceding that the toys aren't very articulated, they're making justifications
for it. Instead of conceding that the cartoon is badly-dubbed, they go, "Well,
those were the characters' names in Japan, so it's understandable that the
translation didn't run smoothly." Instead of conceding that some of the
recycled names don't make sense when applied to certain toys, they go, "Well,
Hasbro really needed to use that trademark or else they'd lose it." That's
what I was referring to by making excuses.
Does everyone have to agree with me? Of course not. And I wasn't being at all
serious when I said the utter sucktitude of Armada should be as obvious to
everyone as it is to me. I simply feel strongly about it and am surprised more
people don't feel as I do. (Sure, I could have said *that,* but wishy-washy
statements don't make for very good essays.)
>I mean, I don't know how to say this without it sounding rude, but,
>you're talking like Raksha. I never imagined I would see you say these
>sorts of things.
To be honest, I *feel* a little like Raksha. (Or, at least, how I imagine she
probably feels about some things. I haven't climbed into her head to check, or
anything.) I've noticed this over the course of the last few months, actually.
Maybe this is just the final stage of digivolution for Fans Who Care Too Damn
Much. I mean, I fully admit that I'm just about at the "anything post-RiD is
crap" stage. It's just how I feel right now. The difference between me and
her, right now, is that I don't hate Armada just *because* it's not G1. I hate
Armada because it sucks on its own merits. I mean, I'm still *buying* the
Armada toys, because my desire to own a complete collection surpasses my
dislike of many of the individual toys. I watched every episode and wrote
lengthy, in-depth reviews of them in an attempt to *try* to squeeze some
enjoyment out of them, at least until Cartoon Network moved the time slot and I
didn't care enough to try to find the show again. So, it's not as though I
haven't given Armada a chance. I just intensely, genuinely dislike it.
>>He said, "I tend to think people who think of Transformers as cool will
>>probably like the new stuff. Most people who think of Transformers as great
>>will probably be less thrilled."
>
>Honestly, I think that's ridiculous. You may as well start thowing around
>the phrase "true fan".
Please hear me out on this one, because it's very important to me that you
understand this. The reason the expression "true fan" is offensive to people
is because it implies that you're somehow better than me if you've
(fill-in-the-blank: seen more episodes than me, own more toys, written more
fanfics, have a bigger web site, whatever). What I'm talking about, instead,
is the simple phenomenon that if you *care* about Transformers more than I do,
you're going to be more bothered by unpleasant developments than I am. If the
toy line is cancelled, you'll be more upset than me because it matters more to
you than it does to me. I feel a little silly explaining this, since I think
it pretty much goes without saying. I believe *this* phenomenon is what
Skyflight was describing, and I agree with it completely.
I've thought about this in relation to how I feel about other franchises, and I
find that it's very much applicable to me. The less familiar or involved I am
with a given franchise, the less affected I am by it. For example, I remember
liking He-Man as a kid, and it pleases me in a vague way to see it back in
stores. All the characters look more or less like I remember them, and I have
none of the complaints that the hard-core fans seem to have about how He-Man's
belt is the wrong color or whatever. Those are minor, forgettable details to
me and don't bother me at all. In Skyflight's example, I think He-Man is
pretty cool. The new toy line is neat. The people who are *huge* He-Man fans
are likely to be less thrilled with the new toys because they can see all the
flaws and errors that I wouldn't notice or be able to identify or care about.
Call *them* the True Fans, if you like. (Does that make me not a True Fan?
No. But it does make me more likely to accept the new stuff without seeing
anything wrong with it.)
Then we make the shift to Transformers, in which things like Rhino's added DVD
sound effects or the mold changes made to Armada Airazor, these things *do*
matter to me. It's been demonstrated on ATT that a lot of fans either didn't
notice the new sound effects or just don't care about them one way or the
other. So, they think the DVD's are pretty cool. They're watching the same
discs I am, but because I am more knowledgeable about the way the show was
originally presented, and because I *care* more than they do about wanting to
see the original content preserved, I am, as Skyflight said, less thrilled.
>Seriously, Dave, if you really are uncovering "issues" from your childhood
>that you find troubling, I would encourage you -- as I would anybody, but
>especially a friend -- to consider therapy.
I appreciate the thought. And, really, if I felt I were in a position where
whatever emotional/psychological problems I had were getting in the way of my
having a successful job/family/whatever, I probably would. Honestly, though, I
don't think counseling would uncover anything that I haven't already figured
out for myself. I had a troubling childhood, and I'm making up for it as an
adult by playing with toys. That's pretty much it right there. I'm guessing a
lot of compulsive-obsessive collectors go through their entire lives and never
stop to examine their behavior, never figure out *why* they're collectors to
begin with.
Now, my current theory is that many other adult fans probably have similar
reasons for not wanting to let go of their childhood. I'm not saying that
everybody on ATT has severe psychological problems. I *am* saying that adults
who collect toys and watch cartoons are different from adults who don't.
There's a point at which most people outgrow their toys, but for one reason or
another, collectors never do. Is it possible for a 30-year-old male to be
entirely well-adjusted in every aspect of his life and still have a desire to
play with robot dolls? I don't know. Most collectors either dance around the
issue or avoid it entirely.
In my observation, most non-collectors think we're strange. I have't conducted
a poll or anything on this, but I think that most collectors would think it's
just as strange to see adults who play with, say, infant rattles or baby
blocks. It's the exact same behavior, playing with toys most adults have
outgrown, so it's all relative. Where do we draw the line? Don't you think
it's a strange notion for a grown man to play with a baby rattle? I sure do.
Why is it, then, that most collectors manage to outgrow playing with toys meant
for infants, but never outgrow playing with toys meant for first-grade
children?
Anyway, there's my thoughts on the matter. I'd appreciate whatever follow-up
comments you may have. Could I have your permission to post this entire
e-mail, with your comments included, on the newsgroup? I've noticed there are
quite a few replies to my original essay, and I suspect that cut-and-pasting
this whole mess will save me a lot of time.
</e-mail>
Often-Wrong Zobovor
> Just as an aside, Unicron is an Armada toy. It's not a delayed G1 toy,
>you'd never, EVER get a toy like that in G1. Saying it's not "really" Armada
>just so you can say all Armada sucks is incredibly sloppy arguing technique.
I really thought everybody knew what I was trying to say here. I've made this
exact same comment before, and nobody took a bite, so I assumed it made sense
to everyone.
I'm well aware Unicron was designed for the Armada toy line and sold under the
Armada banner. However, the toy was designed *specifically* to resemble
Unicron as he appears in G1. I mean, just *look* at him. The robot-mode
design, the planet-mode design, the detailing, the color scheme, *everything*
points to this being a representation of the character from the movie. It's a
toy of G1 Unicron.
Thusly, it amuses me to pretend that the addition of a Minicon component was a
last-minute design decision made to enable Hasbro to stuff Unicron into an
Armada box. It's a savvy marketing decision, along the same lines as marketing
Beast Machines toys like Air Attack Optimus Primal and Megatron Megabolt under
the then-current RiD name.
Aw, I just need to go dig up the Unicron review I wrote and actually post it.
Ka Faraq Gatri
>Desperado00 wrote:
>>
>> > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
>> >NOTHING bad is said..
>>
>> I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
>
>The gun mode sucked.
>
GUN mode? I thought he turned into a hedge trimmer!
Ka Faraq Gatri
wrote:
>"Túrin" <morm...@knoledge.org> wrote in message
>news:3F5414...@knoledge.org...
>
>> Desperado00 wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dave Van Domelen, also notes there is no toy EVER made about which
>> > >NOTHING bad is said..
>> >
>> > I refer you to Beast Wars Neo Stampy.
>>
>> The gun mode sucked.
>
>Gun? I thought he was supposed to be some kind of hedge trimmer. Either way,
>it sucks.
>
I really should read responses before I post. Here I thought I was
being clever with the "hedge trimmer" comment, and the next post I
read already beat me to it.
Iron Wookiee
>reasons for not wanting to let go of their childhood. I'm not saying that
>everybody on ATT has severe psychological problems. I *am* saying that adults
>who collect toys and watch cartoons are different from adults who don't.
>There's a point at which most people outgrow their toys, but for one reason or
>another, collectors never do. Is it possible for a 30-year-old male to be
>entirely well-adjusted in every aspect of his life and still have a desire to
>play with robot dolls? I don't know. Most collectors either dance around the
>issue or avoid it entirely.
I've got to admit that it's true in my case as well. When I hit middle
school, my dad started cheating on my mom and their marriage went to
hell. They didn't get divorced, mind you. They stayed together, "For
the good of the kids." As such, I pretty much became introverted
throughout a time in my life when my peers were out at the mall, going
to parties, drinking underage, etc. Rather than socialize, I read, I
drew, I sculpted. By the time high school came around, I was
completely socially inept. I pretty much excelled at school work, with
the notable exception of chemistry, but I never got into the whole
socialization thing. After a while, I just got used to the fact that I
was fundamentally psychologically different from the majority of the
people in my school. And I didn't particularly care.
As a diversion from the percieved hole in my life, I got into
collecting things from happier times. Star Wars collecting,
Transformers collecting, Superhero collecting, they'd all grown into
an obsession. Each time I got something new, I got a momentary buzz
from the new acquisition. I even got a job at KB to help with getting
the new stuff.
Hell, I got SO engrossed with Star Wars that I made the Red 6
Encyclopedia. I wanted a list of EVERY character in the SW universe,
and Zob, I first met you when you signed the Porkins Petition.
Eventually, I got into psychology because I KNEW that I thought about
the world differently from most people. The more I learned where my
family went wrong, the more I knew how to correct my own screwed-up
life. Once I realized that my family was a DSM textbook case of
dysfunction, I knew that I had perfectly normal reactions to
everything that went on.
At that point, I was able to stop obsessing over the little plastic
men in my life. I realized that there was more important stuff in life
than children's toys. At that point, I was finally able to develop
self-esteem and start dating. Eventually, I found a beautiful woman
who fell in love with me, and didn't mind my relatively unusual hobby.
Today, I'm a graduate with a BA in psych, I'm working at a mental
clinic and gaining experience to return to Grad school next year to
persue a doctorate in child psych. I still collect Transformers, Star
Wars acton figures, and Muppets, but everything is now finally in its
proper perspective. I still enjoy getting toys and I enjoy
reconnecting with my childhood but I'm also saving for a house,
planning a wedding, and planning on raising kids the right way.
To answer your question, I'd say it's possible to be a well-adjusted
adult and still play with toys, so long as you have the right
priorities in life. After all, there's a whole generation of men that
plays with model trains, right? Everybody has a hobby. Some guys like
to paint themselves and sit in sub-zero weather cheering for sport
teams. Other men like to hang out at bars and drink 'till they puke.
Some men drive large, fast cars. Out of all of the above, I still
prefer my little plastic men- and thankfully, so does Jessica. ;)
Thomas Hamann
<mark....@cyberus.ca> screamed his special catch-phrase, and the
result was this:
>"Ramen Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.nett> wrote in message
>news:_5N4b.3311$O14....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>*SNIP*
>> > "Ramen Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.nett> wrote in message
>> > news:RsK4b.3683$Cc7....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>*SNIP*
>> > > The best group to do this to is the hardcore anime fans. Boy do they
>> get
>> > > hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from
>> Japan.
>*SNIP*
>> Another good group to troll is Linux users. Especially since 90% of them
>> can't make an argument past "Windows sucks" without any examples or
>reasons.
>> They just use it because it's "different". Kind of like the hardcore
>anime
>> fans.
>
Well, at least I can say that I just bought myself a Mac because it's
(suposedly) better than a PC (besides, it hopefully won't eat 4 HDDs
in 3 years time...).
>Sounds like the Enterprise haters.
>
>Most of whom seem very proud that they've never even sat through one
>episode.
>
>Mark
>"Note the brilliant use of logic in their justification."
>
LOL!
--
Website: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/
Rec.Arts.Anime.Models Posting Policies: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/faqs.htm
"...you ain't no different than Ben Laden..." - The emminent Dr. J ranting about me on alt.toys.transformers.
Thomas Hamann
<esha...@worldnet.att.net> screamed his special catch-phrase, and
the result was this:
>"Adrian" <adra...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > That said, I ~still~ want an Optimus Prime plushie. ;)
>>
>> Hmmm...I'm having flashbacks of a post a couple of years back, with links
>to
>> pics of a cute, naked blond chick playing with her custom-made TF UFO
>toys.
>
>This will cure you of those heathen thoughts.
>
>
Well, that's less bad than that horrible Optimus Prime cosplayer...
Thomas Hamann
Hydra
> "Thomas Hamann" <unzn...@lnubb.pbz> wrote in message
> news:3f539221...@news.wxs.nl...
> > When it was Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:06:26 +0100, "Andrew Crane"
> > <A...@falsebit.rattrap64.free-online.co.uk> screamed his special
> > catch-phrase, and the result was this:
> > >news:RsK4b.3683$Cc7....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> bottling it
> of
> > >> > bitching that some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being
> designed
> > >> > and marketed to my exact specifications. I think that's perfectly
> > >> > justifiable, don't you?
> get
> > >> hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from
> Japan.
> > >
> claim -
> > >that you are some kind of racist if you don't automatically agree that
> > >everything from Japan is perfect and wonderful.
> >
> > Then you can easily expose them as hypocrites by saying that there's
> > Japanese government members who think that raping women is okay and
> > good for the women (just like certain anime fans, they've probably
> > seen too much tentacle-sex hentai...).
>
> Yes. Point out years of repression towards women and how they did the same
> thing to the Chinese that the Nazis did tot he Jews during WW2.
You know, this is all very tasteful, but can we get over the "Japan
sucks" party here? Everyone knows what happened during the war, are
you trying to talk about Japan today, or sixty years ago?
If you're saying that women are still actively repressed in Japan, I
find those claims highly dubious. But each country's different.
Someone from Japan could easily, and correctly, say that America is
plagued by religious persecution, and a comparatively massive rate of
rape/murder, neither of which are big problems in Japan.
I'm quite aware of the social problems present in Japan, since I've
focused my studies on them. But, I find this sort of diatribe quite
offensive, so can it end?
-Hydra
Ethan Hammond
>
> Just so this post isn't a complete and total downer, I really like
Skywarp's
> colors. I also like kitty-cats. (Turns out Crosswise is a boy-cat, not a
> girl-cat. Don't I feel silly.)
I think I could live much more vicariously with a TF catgirl,
VICARIOUSLY!!!!
*SHAKES FIST*
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Ethan Hammond
> > I use mine to recreate Watership Down. *THUMBS UP*
>
> As who? He's too skinny for Bigwig, and the wrong colour for Hazel-rah or
> Fiver.
What happened to imagination. *SHAKES FIST*
> Mark
> "Though a TM2 Stampy would make a good Woundwart."
There you go.
--
Ethan Hammond
>
> Sorry about that. Cyberus said three times that it couldn't post.
>
> Mark
> "Is it too much to ask for just ONE WEEK where Cyberus doesn't frell
up?!?"
I think its fairly obvious that there isn't.
Ethan Hammond
>
> Lord Satan, I salute you! >:)=)
Now, now there is never a need for devil worship.
> > http://cirrus.spaceports.com/~sailor/rini/sumo.htm
> Whoa! The Sailor scouts really let themselves go after their series
ended.
> Poor, poor Sailor Jupiter. She was my favorite. :( *weeps*
ROTFLMAO You will never think of them the same again. ^_-
Ethan Hammond
>
> >The gun mode sucked.
> >
> GUN mode? I thought he turned into a hedge trimmer!
Once I considering sparing your shrubbery, now you shall bear
witness to is undoing!!!!
Ethan Hammond
>
> >
> >http://cirrus.spaceports.com/~sailor/rini/sumo.htm
> >
> Well, that's less bad than that horrible Optimus Prime cosplayer...
Heh. Wow that poor guy can't win.
Suspsy
> Merytneith once asked me why I allow Transformers to piss me off as much as it
> does, and I told her the only alternative was to just not give a crap any
> longer. When I stopped posting for a bit, I was dangerously close to that
> point. (Whether you think it's really "dangerous" to stop obsessing over
> children's toys is anyone's guess. Maybe it was the healthiest thing I ever
> could have done. Who knows.) My point is that I've decided I'm not going to
> allow Hasbro's treatment of the toy line to completely ruin my enjoyment of
> Transformers, but I also see no reason not to complain freely about the aspects
> I dislike.
Given that Hasbro's treatment of the line has made it such an
overwhelming success, it's a pity that it runs so counter to what you
personally feel is the "right" way to handle TFs. With several
distinct lines, you'd think there'd be something for everyone to
enjoy. Apparently not.
> One of the last things Skyflight said to me was essentially an accusation. He
> said, perhaps not in so many words, that I had so much power over what other
> people in the fandom think that I should be very careful about how I express my
> opinions lest people start believing things just because I said it was so.
I always interpreted that accusation as merely another desperate
attempt on his part to divert attention away from the simple fact that
he was deliberately re-writing the ATTCM FAQ in order to allow Rakshit
to get away with defaming Glen Hallit's character. If I'd been you,
I'd have just shrugged it off and moved on with my life.
> So, yes. I've become uncharacteristically bitter and jaded and Raksha-esque.
Which, I'm sure we can all agree, is a VERY bad thing indeed.
> I don't think it's fair that other people get to freely express their thoughts
> on controversial issues without fear of retribution, but as soon as I open my
> mouth, I get torn apart.
And you think you're the only one who encounters such feedback? Face
it, if you've been on ATT for a long time and are a prominent poster,
of course your words are going to attract more attention, positive and
negative. It's the price of fame. Same as how when Steve-o criticizes
someone for lousy behaviour, like our soupy old pal Joey Larson,
people sit up and take notice.
> I don't *want* to be a celebrity in the fandom. I don't *want* people hanging on
> my every word, waiting for me to make a mistake so they can jump me for some
> inconsequential slip of the tongue. I didn't get to be Zobovor by being
> perfect. I got where I am today by being myself, by being fun and witty and
> poignant and thought-provoking. I find it terribly ironic that these are the
> exact same things I tend to get jumped for nowadays.
No, you got jumped on because you made a huge post attacking Armada,
without any objectivity or tact, I might add.
> I don't believe people are pretending to like Armada. What I was saying was
> that people are making excuses for the lack of articulation, for example, by
> saying that all the production costs went into the gimmicks.
Which is a completely valid and reasonable point. Now, if they didn't
have any gimmicks whatsoever, then you'd have a case.
Instead of conceding that some of the
> recycled names don't make sense when applied to certain toys, they go, "Well,
> Hasbro really needed to use that trademark or else they'd lose it."
Another perfectly valid, reasonable point. Moreover, the only reason
the recycled names don't make any sense to you is because, as you
yourself admit, you're far too attached to the characters who
originally bore those names. To you, Armada Wheeljack is wrong. To
your average 10-year old, or to a more detached fan like myself, it's
a fine name.
> Does everyone have to agree with me? Of course not. And I wasn't being at all
> serious when I said the utter sucktitude of Armada should be as obvious to
> everyone as it is to me.
Then why did you say it in the first place?
I simply feel strongly about it and am surprised more
> people don't feel as I do. (Sure, I could have said *that,* but wishy-washy
> statements don't make for very good essays.)
Perhaps not, but they do tend to reduce the amount of negativity one
receives.
> To be honest, I *feel* a little like Raksha.
How wretchedly disgusting. A good long shower might be in order.
The difference between me and
> her, right now, is that I don't hate Armada just *because* it's not G1. I hate
> Armada because it sucks on its own merits. I mean, I'm still *buying* the
> Armada toys, because my desire to own a complete collection surpasses my
> dislike of many of the individual toys. I watched every episode and wrote
> lengthy, in-depth reviews of them in an attempt to *try* to squeeze some
> enjoyment out of them, at least until Cartoon Network moved the time slot and I
> didn't care enough to try to find the show again. So, it's not as though I
> haven't given Armada a chance. I just intensely, genuinely dislike it.
Then really, you should drop the whole completist thing and spare
yourself a ton of misery. Why go through so much anguish just in order
to have every single toy out there? Is your collection really worth
more than your happiness?
I'll tell you what, the day buying TFs stops bringing me happiness is
the day I cease to collect them.
> Please hear me out on this one, because it's very important to me that you
> understand this. The reason the expression "true fan" is offensive to people
> is because it implies that you're somehow better than me if you've
> (fill-in-the-blank: seen more episodes than me, own more toys, written more
> fanfics, have a bigger web site, whatever).
Bingo.
What I'm talking about, instead,
> is the simple phenomenon that if you *care* about Transformers more than I do,
> you're going to be more bothered by unpleasant developments than I am.
I'm not so sure. I'm still very fond of G1, always have been, and I
have yet to be truly bothered by anything that's come up in the years
since then. I don't think you can possibly claim that just because
you're so up in arms over it, everyone else who loves TFs as much as
you do will feel the exact same.
People vary.
I believe *this* phenomenon is what
> Skyflight was describing, and I agree with it completely.
If it really was what he meant, then he ought to have phrased it
better.
For example, I remember
> liking He-Man as a kid, and it pleases me in a vague way to see it back in
> stores. All the characters look more or less like I remember them, and I have
> none of the complaints that the hard-core fans seem to have about how He-Man's
> belt is the wrong color or whatever. Those are minor, forgettable details to
> me and don't bother me at all. In Skyflight's example, I think He-Man is
> pretty cool. The new toy line is neat. The people who are *huge* He-Man fans
> are likely to be less thrilled with the new toys because they can see all the
> flaws and errors that I wouldn't notice or be able to identify or care about.
Actually, as far as I can tell, it's been quite the reverse. The old
school fans have generally been thrilled with the line but the 5 to
10-year old kids who actually keep toylines alive and kicking haven't.
All because Mattel tried to remain as faithful as possible to the
original He-Man.
A shame really. I actually do enjoy the cartoon now.
Susp, oh well, there's one more season at least
"Run hot, but always keep your cool." -Getaway
Ka Faraq Gatri
<sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 06:55:17 GMT, Ethan Hammond wrote:
>>> filecards for the Joes (on a small tangent, why is it that THAT line
>>> doesn't have to have tri-lingual packaging yet everything else does?),
>>
>> Maybe cause GI Joe is a Real American Hero?
>
>Yeah, and Real Americans don't speak spanish.
>
>Oh, they do? Okay. Nevermind.
Well, some do. THIS Real American speaks German (3 yrs in high
school, and a year in college. And most of what I can remember is the
profanity). And a little Irish, of course. But I guess Ethan's point
is that as a US patriotic-themed line, it might not need the
tri-lingual packaging. It would be sold primarily in the US, at least
as GIJoe. The UK, and presumably other parts of the world got Action
Force back in the 80s. Maybe if GIJoe gets marketed overseas as Action
Force again, then we'll see tri-lingual packaging. With Dubya turning
the planet against the US, I doubt a US military line would do well
internationally without some modification.
Hydra
> When it was Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:06:26 +0100, "Andrew Crane"
> <A...@falsebit.rattrap64.free-online.co.uk> screamed his special
> catch-phrase, and the result was this:
> >"Ramen Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.nett> wrote in message
> >news:RsK4b.3683$Cc7....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> >> > So, I decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of
> bottling it
> >> > all up, to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot of
> >> > bitching that some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed
> >> > and marketed to my exact specifications. I think that's perfectly
> >> > justifiable, don't you?
> >> The best group to do this to is the hardcore anime fans. Boy do they get
> >> hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from Japan.
> >
> >*Sigh* I know the sort. They insinuate - or outright slanderously claim -
> >that you are some kind of racist if you don't automatically agree that
> >everything from Japan is perfect and wonderful.
>
> Then you can easily expose them as hypocrites by saying that there's
> Japanese government members who think that raping women is okay and
> good for the women (just like certain anime fans, they've probably
> seen too much tentacle-sex hentai...).
>
this up. I assume you're making reference to a recent incident, in
which a conservative member of the democratic party offhandedly
remarked that he felt women who dressed provocatively were encouraging
rape. Since many Japanese were offended by this (rightfully so), it
became a press issue. Which indicates that most Japanese naturally
find this mindset offensive.
So now that you've heard the facts, which Japanese government members
said that raping women is OK and therapeutic? And by the way, I
imagine that this politician would have an anti-pornography/censorship
stance, not be a proponent of it, since he's on the conservative
platform. Not that you know or care.
I hate to tell you this, but overly conservative, sexist politicians
are not unique to Japan. Let's move on with our lives.
-Hydra
Iron Wookiee
>>>> doesn't have to have tri-lingual packaging yet everything else does?),
>>>
>>> Maybe cause GI Joe is a Real American Hero?
>>
>>Yeah, and Real Americans don't speak spanish.
>>
>>Oh, they do? Okay. Nevermind.
>
> Well, some do. THIS Real American speaks German (3 yrs in high
>school, and a year in college. And most of what I can remember is the
>profanity).
I've said for years that GI-Joe would sell better with German
profanity written all over the packages... ;)
Gabi T.M. D'Galvatron
> In any case, if you've got a problem with the current crop of TFs, the
> fault ultimately rests on your shoulders, not Hasbro's. You're the one
> who needs to resolve something, not them.
If this discussion revolves arround _all_ aspects of Armada , then
the TV show is as much Hasbro's "product" as any toy they produce .
(I seem to recall a certin involvement by Hasbro in the writing /
direction of BW)
So by that stance , isn't the universal sucktitude and pointlesness
of the first 13 Armada episodes also somehow Hasbro's fault ?
Besidse , getting beck to your comment for a moment -- I doubt that
any fan is going to _fault_ him/herself for not likeing one toy-line
or another .
If you don't like a burger at McDonalds , you don't usually bame
yourself -- you blame McDonalds .
Same with Hasbro .
-Gabi, ... who , for the record is currently more happy than not with
TF's .
Because for me , somehow TF's and Hasbro never quite connected , so if
I don't like a toy , or a color scheme , then _I_ just don't like it .
For me , it has nothing to do with Hasbro .
Chris McFeely
> Force back in the 80s. Maybe if GIJoe gets marketed overseas as Action
> Force again, then we'll see tri-lingual packaging.
No, surprisingly, it's GIJoe here in the UK this time around. At first the
packaging was identical the US - in fact, I think it was US overstock that
we got sent. It got changed later to a green packaging, but I don't know if
that's trilingual (or has about sixteen languages on it, as is generally
Hasbro UK's wont) or not.
Chris
Richard Mistron
> Richard Mistron wrote:
>
> Well, you have to admit that Walky, DVD, Sipher, etc., are quite
> correct when they point out that, like it or loathe it, Unicron is an
> Armada toy through and through. Sure, the character is originally from
> G1, but to say that the toy is also G1 is like saying that a 2004
> Lexus really belongs in the company of some Model-T fords.
Except that G1 and Armada are both Transformers. Has you said the latest
model of Mustang or whatever Ford is producing at the moment instead of a
Lexus, then your analogy would have made perfect sence.
And it's not that I don't comprehend and understand that Unicron is an
Armada toy. Zobovor posted his reasons behind that statement elsewhere in
that thread. A statement which I agree with. Just because Walky, DVD, and
Sipher all agree doesn't mean I have to discard my opinion for theirs. Just
sayin'.
> As I noted in my previous post, the latest episodes have actually been
> quite, quite good in terms of storyline and characters. Starscream's
> ongoing struggle with his guilty conscience for example, or Sideways'
> playing of both sides.
Those sound like fun episodes. Sadly, the only one I ever catch is
Smokescreens debut episode.
> Never mind that Armada Scavenger has what, five points of
> > articulation? G1 Jazz has eight, sure it's all in the arms. But there
are
> > toys out there that can back this up.
>
> Scavenger is articulated at the antennae,
Well, if you're gonna stoop to counting antennae as points of
articulation...
> head, shoulders(two joints),
> elbows, knuckles, thumbs, and waist. That makes *thirteen* points.
> Plus his canopy opens up and his legs stomp. Eat it, Jazz.
Eleven. And Jazz don't eat junk food. :-)
> I'm the polar opposite. Were it not for the fact that I'm trying to
> budget, I'd have gotten Galvatron a long time ago, along with
> Powerlinx Prime and Thundercracker to boot. The PX recolours, IMHO,
> are all superb. Same with TFU.
To each their own. So long as there are those willing to buy, Hasbro will
keep repainting them. The only thing I can do is let my one wallet do the
talking.
> Susp, I mean, c'mon, DEPTH CHARGE.
Is a pile of festering, disgusting piece of filth that I will never purchase
no matter how he's colored. C'mon, Susp, it's all subjective.
Ka Faraq Gatri
<orio...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>Suspsy wrote...
>> Scavenger is articulated at the antennae,
>
>Well, if you're gonna stoop to counting antennae as points of
>articulation...
>
>> head, shoulders(two joints),
>> elbows, knuckles, thumbs, and waist. That makes *thirteen* points.
>> Plus his canopy opens up and his legs stomp. Eat it, Jazz.
>
>Eleven. And Jazz don't eat junk food. :-)
Except Cookie Crisp. :-)
Thylacine 2000
> What I'm talking about, instead,
> is the simple phenomenon that if you *care* about Transformers more than I do,
> you're going to be more bothered by unpleasant developments than I am. If the
> toy line is cancelled, you'll be more upset than me because it matters more to
> you than it does to me. I feel a little silly explaining this, since I think
> it pretty much goes without saying. I believe *this* phenomenon is what
> Skyflight was describing, and I agree with it completely.
I never got that vibe from what Skyf said, myself, probably because
there's no empirical grading of how "cool" relates to "great," or any
reason why people can only feel one or the other. I would honestly
hate to see you slide down to the level from which he often approached
this topic. One of the worst things he ever said--and he said it
repeatedly--was that he would rather see Transformers totally
discontinued, rather than suffer the existence of a new series he
disliked. His own dissatisfaction was more important than any amount
of joy for any amount of other people, and if he had to stop, then by
God they would ALL stop.
How many people hated RID? How many people thought it was a
meaningless ultra-cheap Digimon clone with no rightful place in the
bigger spectrum of TF stories? As you are well aware--many people.
Their loss, of course, but the point remains that they didn't
necessarily approach that series any more or less seriously than you
or I or any RID fan did. If two fans of equal commitment approach the
same series and get different outcomes, is their level of "caring"
determined by who likes it and who disdains it?
Stranger
news:45b61857.03090...@posting.google.com...
> Given that Hasbro's treatment of the line has made it such an
> overwhelming success, it's a pity that it runs so counter to what you
> personally feel is the "right" way to handle TFs. With several
> distinct lines, you'd think there'd be something for everyone to
> enjoy. Apparently not.
I think Zob has said he is quite the fan of the Pre-school Go-Bots line.
He's just ranting about the TF stuff that he *doesn't* like. And there is a
lot of stuff out there that many people can dislike. Everyone is going to
differ on what's good and bad, but I think we can all acknowlege that no
toyline is perfect.
> > I don't believe people are pretending to like Armada. What I was saying
was
> > that people are making excuses for the lack of articulation, for
example, by
> > saying that all the production costs went into the gimmicks.
>
> Which is a completely valid and reasonable point. Now, if they didn't
> have any gimmicks whatsoever, then you'd have a case.
You can also say though that you'd much rather have articulation than
gimmicks. I know I'm not the only fan who couldn't care less about sound
and light gimmicks, or arm-swinging action (I can swing my own toys arms!).
So while I can't say for sure what exactly Zob means, but I think what he
means, and what I mean when I say that gimmicks aren't a good excuse for
descresed articulation , is that I truly prefer the articulation. I'm not
saying that Hasbro is beaing cheap, I am saying that I hate the gimmicks
they come up with.
(BTW - I wish Armada Starscream didn't have that voicebox so you could swing
his back down in robot mode. Show of hands- who would have liked a nicer
robot mode in exchange for losing "Psh-zing" sounds?)
> Instead of conceding that some of the
> > recycled names don't make sense when applied to certain toys, they go,
"Well,
> > Hasbro really needed to use that trademark or else they'd lose it."
>
> Another perfectly valid, reasonable point. Moreover, the only reason
> the recycled names don't make any sense to you is because, as you
> yourself admit, you're far too attached to the characters who
> originally bore those names. To you, Armada Wheeljack is wrong. To
> your average 10-year old, or to a more detached fan like myself, it's
> a fine name.
Well, it just does seem strange, you must admit. When they make a character
that is obviously designed to be reminiscent of a classic character, why not
name it that charcter, instead of some other random name? Sometimes, the
new names don't even make sense to a complete newbie - the upcoming X-Brawn
repaint as a fire-truck thingie.....wouldn't "inferno" make more sense for a
fire truck than "ratchet"?
If Hasbro needs to use these names to keep the trademark, that is fine, but
you must admit that it's a valid complaint that more apporiate names aren't
being used.
> I simply feel strongly about it and am surprised more
> > people don't feel as I do. (Sure, I could have said *that,* but
wishy-washy
> > statements don't make for very good essays.)
>
> Perhaps not, but they do tend to reduce the amount of negativity one
> receives.
Agreed- never hurts to be extra-polite. I know that it should be assumed
that when someone says their opinion it's what they "think," but by saying
"I think" or "IMO," you're letting people know that you understand they may
disagree for perfectly valid reasons.
>
> > To be honest, I *feel* a little like Raksha.
>
> How wretchedly disgusting. A good long shower might be in order.
And it's comments like that that *do* increase the negativity on ATT. I
disagree with just about everything Raksha has posted in the post few years,
but just attacking her out of the blue like that doesn't do your argument
with Zob justice, Suspy. She's not even participating in this discussion!
You're taking him to task for his post ranting against Armada saying it was
not "objective or tactful, but "wrtechedly disgusting" isn't exactly terms I
would say are filled with tact.
> The difference between me and
> > her, right now, is that I don't hate Armada just *because* it's not G1.
I hate
> > Armada because it sucks on its own merits. I mean, I'm still *buying*
the
> > Armada toys, because my desire to own a complete collection surpasses my
> > dislike of many of the individual toys. I watched every episode and
wrote
> > lengthy, in-depth reviews of them in an attempt to *try* to squeeze some
> > enjoyment out of them, at least until Cartoon Network moved the time
slot and I
> > didn't care enough to try to find the show again. So, it's not as
though I
> > haven't given Armada a chance. I just intensely, genuinely dislike it.
>
> Then really, you should drop the whole completist thing and spare
> yourself a ton of misery. Why go through so much anguish just in order
> to have every single toy out there? Is your collection really worth
> more than your happiness?
I agree with Susp. At some point every completist has to ask themselves how
much of a completist they want to be and *Why* they're a comlpletist.
Anything you do...your jobs, your relationships, your hobbies, should have
the end goal of making you happy. If getting all the toys doesn't do that
anymore, you'd be a lot happier finding another hobby to devote your energy
and resources to, Zob.
Andrew Crane
news:iEa5b.733$806...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> (BTW - I wish Armada Starscream didn't have that voicebox so you could
swing
> his back down in robot mode. Show of hands- who would have liked a nicer
> robot mode in exchange for losing "Psh-zing" sounds?)
I'd gladly give up the electronics on Starscream *and* Red Alert in order to
get more poseable, less clunky toy designs.
--
Andrew
BW Glitch
> "Andrew Crane" <A...@falsebit.rattrap64.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3f537c8e$0$46014$65c6...@mercury.nildram.net...
>
>>"Ramen Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.nett> wrote in message
>>news:RsK4b.3683$Cc7....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>>>So, I decided it would ultimately be healthier for me, instead of
>>
>>bottling it
>>
>>>>all up, to actually vent some of my frustrations by doing a whole lot
>
> of
>
>>>>bitching that some other company's kiddy toy line isn't being designed
>>>>and marketed to my exact specifications. I think that's perfectly
>>>>justifiable, don't you?
>>>
>>>The best group to do this to is the hardcore anime fans. Boy do they
>
> get
>
>>>hilarious when you don't praise any and everything that comes from
>
> Japan.
>
>>*Sigh* I know the sort. They insinuate - or outright slanderously claim -
>>that you are some kind of racist if you don't automatically agree that
>>everything from Japan is perfect and wonderful.
>
>
> can't make an argument past "Windows sucks" without any examples or reasons.
> They just use it because it's "different". Kind of like the hardcore anime
> fans.
Now I most take Hydra's place.
Some Linux entusiasts are actually like that. But saying that 90% of
them are like that is quite wrong. If you ask in a Linux forum what is
better, Windows or Linux, you might find that number. But look closer
who's talking. Any big names? Nope. Most of the big names in the forum
will tell you that each OS is for different people, if they ever say
something. I do run Linux in one of my computers, but I know that no one
in my family would be able to use the computer if it was Linux 100%. So
I keep the Windows part for my family mainly.
Generalization is the root of all evil, and that's always true. ;)
--
Glitch
-----BEGIN TF FAN CODE BLOCK-----
G+++ G1 G2+ BW++++ MW++ BM+ Rid+ Arm-- FR+ FW-
#3 D+ ADA N++ W OQP MUSH- BC- CN++ OM P75
-----END TF FAN CODE BLOCK-----
"Now where is he --"
[spies Depth Charge's tail]
"Buried and helpless. Life is good!"
-- Rampage, "Changing of the Guard"
necrotron
There's something intrinsic to Zob's post that you've missed, and will
probably always miss. While stating that Hasbro's excuses are all valid and
reasonable, that doesn't make them *right* or *forgiven* in his, or many
other people's eyes. He's also tired of being criticized and lambasted for
having a given opinion, regardless of who disagrees. He's *not* the only
one. He holds Hasbro to a higher standard, based on past performance.
Admittedly, it is an arbitrary standard, but he has every right to hold them
to it, just as you have every right to see things as rose colored. So
please remember that people who have a difference of opinion with you and
your pals have *every* right to that opinion, and have every right to post
it.
I will grant you this. People who are happy rarely bitch about it. That
meaning, that pissed off people with an axe to grind are more likely to post
about any given subject, by and large. It is refreshing to see
positively-spun posts, and I generally have no problem with them. There is
a significant problem with posting a *constantly* positive spin: You are
seen as dishonest. There is no line of transformers that pleased anyone and
everyone in every way. Heck, I'll be willing to bet that even the line you
like the most has one or two pieces that are less than stellar even in your
own positive-spin world. So rating everything Hasbro (or other companies)
does/do as excellent while glossing over any sort of problem gets rather
tiresome, and makes you seem insincere at best or unattached from reality at
worst. The opinion that the majority of the Universe repaints (With the
sole exception of Snarl and possibly Razorclaw) are anything but an
abomination has *got* to be in the minority, and I'd suggest a scan for a
brain tumor, but I still respect your right to the opinion. I also have the
right to ridicule it, but I generally choose to eschew negativity except
occasionally on certain issues that *you* still feel compelled to beat on
regularly and often. Yet I love the Universe Primal toy *because* of it's
ugliness. I don't *deny* that it is there, I *embrace* it. It was the
first universe toy I bought, along with Purplebolt and Black Arachnia (why
not a black and yellow repaint of her I'll never understand...)
I think Zob is dealing with the same thing Ben Yee dealt with. I dare you
to find a review of a toy on his site that is negative or "not recommended."
I mean, I'm sure there must be one somewhere... but I sure don't remember
it. So if everything is recommended or highly recommended, what does that
say about your capacity as a reviewer? Is every ball thrown by Hasbro hit
for a home run?
If you think Armada is the best thing since sliced bread (which is also
overrated), then by all means continue. Just leave people who hate it
alone. There's a *lot* to hate about Armada, especially since we had to
wait through what everybody acknowledged was a "filler product line" to get
to it. Sure, there's some good stuff too. But, for people who collect
transformers based on the backstory and character... they're clutching a few
recent episodes and the comic and hoping for more of the same and less of
what was at the beginning.
Also, it is not fair to exclude Unicron from Armada, Zob. Unlike Air Attack
Optimus and Megabolt Megatron, Unicron is firmly entrenched in Armada, and
hopefully the entire storyline, or at least it's conclusion. Count the
minicon ports and tell me it's not the ultimate Armada toy. Does it piss
off a completist to own Armada stuff if you hate it? Quite possibly, yes.
It probably also pissed them off to own some or all of the Transmetal 2's,
Beast Machines, and the entire Car Robots line twice.
Armada is what the "fans" wanted. A return to G1. This is where "be
careful what you wish for, you just might get it" comes home to roost. It
is one thing to tolerate the problems with G1 as a kid, and love the toys
and cartoon nostalgically as an adult. It is entirely another to tolerate
Armada and the show as an adult, after seeing the evolution of the
Transformers brand to this point. However, given the sales and popularity
of Armada, I'd say that kids are still willing to tolerate the same things
most of you did as kids. When they grow up, they'll be on this group saying
how "Smokescreeen owns you" etc.. and bitching about how Alternators runied
the whole damned thing, getting away from smiling faces, futuristic
vehicles, and day-glo colors. They'll be eagerly anticipating the 20th
Anniversary Unicron... and the highly collectable worlds smallest minicons
carved out of rice or something.
Joe Larson
(yeah *that* guy)
necr...@lycos.com
If you had to appoint yourself to something, nobody wanted you there in the
first place.
ps :I take Steve-o seriously, but I *do* wish that he would pay closer
attention to other FAQ violations made by certain elements of this fandom.