More luck 05 Steelers or 07 Giants?
MuahMan
playoffs.
h.o...@hotmail.com
> Clearly the NFL needs to raise the standards of what teams get into the
> playoffs.
Winning a string of playoff games against some of the other top teams
in their Conference isn't enough? The playoff seeding format
generally does a good enough job of eliminating any pretenders. The
cream does rise.
Grady Brady
"MuahMan" <mua...@cumcast.net> wrote in message
news:sdWdndaswqhsVTLa...@comcast.com...
> Clearly the NFL needs to raise the standards of what teams get into the
> playoffs.
games..and just look what happened.
Speaking of luck - How unlucky was this:
Poor ol coach ran to the locker room for his emergency playbook...scrambling
to find that special trick play for when the opponent has the ball with one
second left. Before he could return...Eli had run the play and the game was
over.
garciy...@hotmail.com
> Clearly the NFL needs to raise the standards of what teams get into the
> playoffs.
yeah....they need to just cut the teams most likely to choke right
out......
PatsSox
<garciy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message ...
The Giants couldn't have won the game without the Pats choking?
Ok.... got it. Why aren't people willing to give the Giants credit for
having a better game plan, better coaching, and better playing? They have
to sully the Giants accomplishments by saying the Pats choked. What a
shame.
WJT4CHIEFS
"Grady Brady" <gr...@brad.dee> wrote in message
news:dc2dnZN2C9uI2i3a...@giganews.com...
WJT4CHIEFS
Bill Beliupchuck
Or Kraft was desperately still trying to sweeten his cheating, stadium and
questionable calls (and non calls) Enablers Deal he has in place with the
NFL when time ran out
Mike/Speeed
> playoffs.
Yeah, you tell 'em needledick!
They do however, need to keep those caught CHEATING out of the playoffs in
the first place.
>
PatsSox
"Mike/Speeed" <speeedrac...@verizon.net> wrote in message ...
> They do however, need to keep those caught CHEATING out of the playoffs in
> the first place.
Ya.... what the hell were they thinking allowing the Broncos to
cheat to get Elway a ring? And the 49er's too.
garciy...@hotmail.com
> Ok.... got it. Why aren't people willing to give the Giants credit for
> having a better game plan, better coaching, and better playing? They have
> to sully the Giants accomplishments by saying the Pats choked. What a
> shame.
Its a nod to all the pats fans who said prior to the game "we would
have to have a total collapse", or "only if we reoyally fuck up", or
"if we choke" you have a chance....
I think 3 things happened that day, the giants D Line was much better
than expected, the pats O line thought they could mail it in, and
belicheck made a couple of boneheaded moves...
If belichek hadnt won the 3 earlier super bowls, people would be
blasting him for the coaching job he did......
PatsSox
> have to have a total collapse", or "only if we reoyally fuck up", or
> "if we choke" you have a chance....
>
> I think 3 things happened that day, the giants D Line was much better
> than expected, the pats O line thought they could mail it in, and
> belicheck made a couple of boneheaded moves...
>
> If belichek hadnt won the 3 earlier super bowls, people would be
> blasting him for the coaching job he did......
There have been quite a few posts about Belichick's coaching
decisions.... they are just hard to find amongst the junk. My biggest
gripe is that while the offense was on the field he was huddled with the
defense on the sidelines. Perhaps if he'd been paying attention to what
was going on on the field he could have asked McDaniels what the hell he was
doing.
MZ
news:jc1sj.2944$J93.2744@trndny08...
Maybe he needs a defensive assistant that can coach the linebackers. Pees
apparently can't, and supposedly neither could Mangini.
Mike/Speeed
More incorrect projection from a NE fan...isn't that something new?
>
asteriskhunter
> <garciyala...@hotmail.com> wrote in message ...
He huddled with the defense and went for it on 4th down the entire
season, now after losing the SB he made bad decisions?
john.va...@gmail.com
wrote:
> "PatsSox" <Pats...@ne.com> wrote in message
>
> news:zl0sj.2622$CX2.1338@trndny09...
>
>
>
> > "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV...@verizon.net> wrote in message ...
> >> They do however, need to keep those caught CHEATING out of the playoffs
> >> in
> >> the first place.
>
> > Ya.... what the hell were they thinking allowing the Broncos to
> > cheat to get Elway a ring? And the 49er's too.
>
> More incorrect projection from a NE fan...isn't that something new?
http://www.boulderpublishing.com/sports/football/a382023a.shtml -
49ers violated the salary cap to get players like Steve Young and
Brent Jones under contract....key players in their Super Bowl winning
seasons. Carmen Policy was fined $400k, Dwight Clark was fined $200k,
and the franchise was fined $300k - plus SF had to forfeit a 5th round
pick in 2001 and a 3rd round pick in 2002.
http://www.clanram.com/forums/f58/broncos-fined-lose-draft-pick-5052/
- AP story reports that the Broncos were fined nearly a million
dollars and were forced to give up a 3rd round draft pick in 2005 for
circumventing the salary cap during the 1996-98 years...in 97 and 98
the Broncos won the Super Bowl.
So yeah, the NFL hit both franchises very hard for breaking the rules
on how you can construct your team...the breaking of those rules
pretty clearly impacted their ability to win the Super Bowl. For
Denver, John Elway and Terrell Davis were among those for whom Denver
employed their underhanded tactics, and for SF, it was players like
Steve Young and Brent Jones. All those guys were cornerstone guys for
their SB-winning teams.
Sorry to bring actual facts into the discussion.
John
h.o...@hotmail.com
In the case of the 49ers, the non-compliant contracts were in 1997...a
couple years after their last SB. I'm not condoning their cheating,
just clarifying the timeline.
In both cases, it's not like the teams' only other choice would've
been to cut those key players. Again, not condoning or making excuses
for their cheating. It's totally unacceptable, and an embarasment to
both franchises. But, the advantage gained was not so great as to
suggest "well Denver woulda been without Elway" or some such. The
advantage gained was more likely it enabled them to keep an extra 3rd
stringer or two, for better depth.
john.va...@gmail.com
Fair enough. But it was something they did that was "illegal and it
gained them an advantage". It could *easily* be argued that the
advantage gained by circumventing the salary cap is far, far greater
than taping defensive signals, which (a) change from game to game, and
(b) are only good for the team you're playing against, while fitting
players into a circumvented cap helps you every game of the year, even
if it's just to add depth.
Then we have Jimmy Johnson the week of the Super Bowl declaring that
everyone has always done things like taping signals:
"The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do
about it, and everybody - and I mean everybody - went to the edge on
rules in one form or fashion. That's just part of the game, that's
stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so
long. When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City
scout and he said here's what we do 'we videotape the opposing team's
signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it.
"I know when I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're
supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your
quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson
said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, OK let's go
ahead and do it. Then the league said 'hey, we hear you're doing that,
so don't do it any more.'
"The point I'm making - I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters -
is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say 'how far can
you go without breaking the rules.' ... When I coached the Cowboys, we
didn't have this kind of scrutiny. We didn't have this kind of
visibility. Thirty years ago, they really didn't have this kind of
scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do - that's why
I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.
"Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it
had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this
league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got
to do it because of who it is.' I know Bill Belichick very well, I
know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves
the integrity of the NFL, that's why it irritates me that anyone would
ever question that." (from: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=77760)
And then we have the Steelers of the 1970's who were on steroids (not
all of them, but many of them), and the Dolphins, who violated league
rules to hire none other than Don Shula, who coached them to their
17-0 season in 1972.
I mean, breaking league rules to gain an advantage goes on ALL the
time, and has throughout the history of the league. Not defending
it...just stating the truth.
John
h.o...@hotmail.com
yeah I tend to agree. I wasn't intending my post to be a comparison
of the two issues.
> Then we have Jimmy Johnson the week of the Super Bowl declaring that
> everyone has always done things like taping signals:
<good info snipped, except for below>
> "Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it
> had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this
> league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got
> to do it because of who it is.'
That's a good question - the alleged double-standard of scrutiny
toward those at the top vs the also-rans. In the 49ers sap-cap
example you gave, I recall they were under intense scrutiny, because
for one, the sap-cap was put in place pretty much specifically to
"stop" the free-spending ways of teams like them (if not only them).
Then of course the first year into it, the 49ers were the first to
figure out and then totally exploit the signing bonus loop-hole, which
enabled them to stock-pile their great D for the '94 SB campaign.
Everyone else was up in arm with accusations of "how can they do that
w/o cheating?", before realizing and using that same loop-hole
themselves within the following years. Stupidly though, that wasn't
good enough in the Niners' case, and they did in fact cheat the cap a
couple years later, sullying their whole reputation.
Thing is, is I have little sympathy for those affected by any double-
standard, because those at the top still brought it upon themselves by
cheating in the first place, especially when they didn't really have
to (I'm talking in general, this isn't a Pats troll). Same thing with
individuals, like Bonds, Clemons, etc. Just got too greedy.
> And then we have the Steelers of the 1970's who were on steroids (not
> all of them, but many of them),
Were steroids actually illegal or against the rules back then? Honest
Q, cuz I don't know. I thought rules and testing didn't come about
until the 80's. Not to mention, were the Steelers the only ones
using, or was it prevalent throughout the league? There's that double-
standard again.
> and the Dolphins, who violated league
> rules to hire none other than Don Shula, who coached them to their
> 17-0 season in 1972.
>
> I mean, breaking league rules to gain an advantage goes on ALL the
> time, and has throughout the history of the league. Not defending
> it...just stating the truth.
>
> John-