Mormon boy lost on Jeopardy!
Silent Mike
The rumours you have been hearing are true. Ken Jennings loses on the
episode that
airs Tuesday the 30th.
The question he lost was during Final Jeopardy.
The category: Business/Industry
The question: Most of this firm's 70,000 seasonal white-collar employees
work only four months a year.
The correct answer: What is H&R Block?
Ken's Answer: What is FedEx?
Prior to Ken's answer, the margin was just $1. The winner's name was Nancy.
The only way Ken could have won was to answer correctly. Even if he'd
risked nothing, his fate was sealed.
The audience lets out a very audible reaction even before Alex Trebek reads
Ken's response. Alex says "You are indeed a giant killer! Our new Jeopardy
champion!"
The audience gives a standing ovation for either Ken, Nancy, or both, and
Alex comments "All good things must come to an end."
You can listen to it for yourself. Yes, the audio clip is online, and you
can listen to the MP3 file by going to this website:
http://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/ken-jennings-final-jeopardy.mp3
The episode itself airs this coming Tuesday.
http://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/ken-jennings-final-jeopardy.mp3
DianaC
"Silent Mike" <mikeha...@silentmike.us> wrote in message
news:e2xqd.70176$7i4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> The rumours you have been hearing are true. Ken Jennings loses on the
> episode that
> airs Tuesday the 30th.
>
"Mormon boy"? Ken Jennings is NOT a 'boy'. He is a multi-degreed,
incredibly intelligent man who beat all previous records on Jeopardy and set
some that probably aren't going to be challenged any time soon. His winnings
(or earnings, he EARNED that money) were over double what the previous
champion recieved.
Trust you to give this highly intelligent and accomplished man, who achieved
something pretty neat, a passing raspberry for finally losing; but I'll tell
you what. YOU go on Jeopardy and last half an hour. THEN you can get snide.
"boy", indeed.
You really are a piece of work.
Clovis Lark
> "boy", indeed.
In fact, he's a software engineer and holds an undergraduate degree from
BYU.
Silent Mike
>
> "Mormon boy"? Ken Jennings is NOT a 'boy'. He is a multi-degreed,
> incredibly intelligent man who beat all previous records on Jeopardy and
> set some that probably aren't going to be challenged any time soon. His
> winnings (or earnings, he EARNED that money) were over double what the
> previous champion recieved.
>
> Trust you to give this highly intelligent and accomplished man, who
> achieved something pretty neat, a passing raspberry for finally losing;
> but I'll tell you what. YOU go on Jeopardy and last half an hour. THEN you
> can get snide.
>
> "boy", indeed.
>
> You really are a piece of work.
Wow, Diana. Is it that time of the month for you? No wait...you're having
an affair with Mormie Boy..that's why you're so snarky today.
Silent Mike
>
> In fact, he's a software engineer and holds an undergraduate degree from
> BYU.
Yeah...BYU...that's not saying much.
DianaC
>
>
>>
>> In fact, he's a software engineer and holds an undergraduate degree from
>> BYU.
>
> Yeah...BYU...that's not saying much.
I hate to break this to you, Mike, but BYU is a top tier University, ranked
as such by every organization that ranks such things; for instance, take a
look at U.S. News and World Report, which has been publishing a book on this
for many, many years now.
DianaC
"Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:cog2rk$9o4$2...@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
He holds two degrees from BYU, in Computer Science and English, as well as a
third degree at the Seoul Foriegn School. He speaks several languages
(Korean and Spanish at least) and is working on advanced degrees now.
Vince Z.
Multi-Degree or not, he still couldn't pass my MORMON CHALLENGE!
hue
Geez girl !!! To some of us anyone under 60 is just a boy.
DianaC
"hue" <micr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4bi8o09it9rihf26b...@4ax.com...
Now this is true. If *I* had called him a 'boy' it would be because he is
young enough (well, barely) to be my son.
However, when Mike uses the term, think....well....segregation, separate
water fountains and deadly insults.
Silent Mike
> water fountains and deadly insults.
Geez, Diana. PMS must be doing a number on you today. You're treating me
with the very same discrimination you're accusing me of.
How can you accuse me of racist comments when it comes to Ken? We're both
White. I am simply glad Ken bit the big one on the show. It took long
enough, and it has nothing to do with his Cracker Jack box (aka BYU)
degrees. It has to do with his arrogance, and snarkiness-- and the fact
that it's just plain annoying to see the same contestant win 74 times.
Ahh..but tonight's episode will be the last we see of the jerk until reruns
(and the TOC) hits.
DianaC
The fact that BYU is anything BUT a 'cracker Jack box' university seems to
have slipped right by you. Or does the term 'first tier school' mean nothing
to you? You know, sharing the air up there with Harvard and Yale? True, it
IS more than half way down the first tier list, but the worst school on THAT
list is still considered Ivy League quality. That's why it's called 'first
tier'.
As to whether your comments are racist, well, yeah. Because you are. Racist,
that is. The fact is, Mike, your use of the word 'boy' when refering to a
man, has all sorts of connotations to it that a non racist using it might
not give it. Probably because it's a word people like you use quite
naturally when refering to anyone who has more melanin than you do.
Finally, your opinion of him has nothing whatsoever to do with his
'snarkiness' or 'arrogance'...a less arrogant man I have seldom seen.
Frankly, he just looks tired. Your problem with him is simply and only that
he's LDS.
That's it,
That's all,
And given your history on the topic, you can protest until you are purple
but we all know this.
RBrad...@kc.rr.com
as their minimum ACT score requirement...
"Silent Mike" <mikeha...@silentmike.us> wrote in message
news:txMqd.72613$7i4....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Clovis Lark
Clovis Lark
All undergraduate degrees. "Foreign"
He speaks several languages
> (Korean and Spanish at least) and is working on advanced degrees now.
He got his languages from a childhood abroad.
DianaC
yes?
Name some?
and their views?
.........remembering, of course, that BYU is noted most for it's Law school,
English department and areas such as this?
IncanWarrior
school. BYU MBA is around the 50th in the nation, but all other BYUs
departments, as far as I know, don't figure in the list.
As per original research, BYU is way behind.
As per the engineering programs, they are not good and lots of
teachers are stuck in themselves and think they are gods; spent many
years there and lived that life :)
U or U in SL is waaay better
IW
DianaC
He got KOREAN from his childhood abroad. and..er, pardon me, but several
undergraduate degrees are still degrees, plural...believe me, having just
lived through two final exams in courses taken at a university FAR less
respected than BYU, having spent the last couple of years struggling with
everything in me to get ONE BA from Cal. State Bakersfield, I'm sure not
going to denigrate anybody who has two degrees from Brigham Young University
and one from abroad.
And what the flip is the MATTER with you? Does the fact that the man is
Mormon so outweigh everything that you have to denigrate every
accomplishment he has achieved? Make him anything BUT Mormon and you
wouldn't be reacting this way. But no, he's Mormon. Therefore speaking at
least three languages fluently mean nothing; he learned 'em as a kid. He's
Mormon. Therefore holding three Bachelor's degrees in such widely varied
areas as English, Computer Studies and Eastern Studies isn't worthy of note,
they ARE just undergraduate degrees. BYU is an LDS school, and therefore
something less than slime trail, never mind that every single organization
that investigates and ranks universities in the world put it in the top 100
universities on the planet.
No, all that pales besides the one fact you can't see past; Jennings is LDS.
BYU is LDS.
Several words pop to mind here. Snooty is a good one. Dismissive.
Prejudiced. Intolerant. Condescending.
....and a thought also occurs to me. If a belief system is false, simple
truth should be sufficient to prove it so. When the attackers resort to
tactics like this, this denigration of any accomplishment, no matter how
unrelated to the belief system, simply because the person that accomplished
it is a member of that belief system, there is something very, very wrong.
Either 'simple truth' isn't sufficient to discredit the belief system, in
which case you might take another look, or the attackers have descended from
honest critics to slavering bigots.
Either way, you screwed up.
Silent Mike
> Like to see oyu get accepted to BYU...you probably can't even count as
> high
> as their minimum ACT score requirement...
>
Well, considering that you can't even type your insults properly, I take
that with a grain of salt. Actually, when I was in high school, I was an
active LDS. I therefore, like any brainwashed Mormon, applied to, and was
ACCEPTED AT, BYU. I will be more than happy to scan and post my acceptance
letter should anyone doubt that.
I elected not to go, in favor of a state college in my home state, where my
then-girlfriend (who later was my first wife) went. That marriage didn't
work out..ironically, because she kept insulting the Mormon religion, but
the fact remains I had the chance to go BYU, but was smart enough to pass up
on it. Of course, I was dumb enough to put my (then) faith above a marriage
to a girl who was a pretty good piece of tail in bed. Go figure.
Silent Mike
> He got his languages from a childhood abroad.
>
Yup. Thank the military lifestyle; not his intelligence.
Silent Mike
> No, all that pales besides the one fact you can't see past; Jennings is
> LDS. BYU is LDS.
>
Your point?
> Several words pop to mind here. Snooty is a good one. Dismissive.
> Prejudiced. Intolerant. Condescending.
>
Awww.....are you gonna cry to the ACLU? "Hellllllllllllllllllllp!
Anti-Mormon sentiment!"
LOL.
*YOU* are the "piece of work".
David Bowie
: "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote...
:: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
: yes?
: Name some?
: and their views?
: .........remembering, of course, that BYU is noted most for it's Law
: school, English department and areas such as this?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Snarf!
Errm, as someone whose first faculty job was in BYU's English Department,
i don't know that i'd call that one of their nationally-recognized
programs.
Their Law School, Family Therapy/Marriage Counseling program, Clinical
Psychology program, and (especially!) Business School, OTOH, most
certainly *are* world-class (and the programs in the Foreign Languages and
in Linguistics are developing, if not have developed, really good reps).
David, in a position to hear academic gossip
--
David Bowie http://pmpkn.net/lx
Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there is no chocolate in the
house, there is too little; some must be purchased. If there is
chocolate in the house, there is too much; it must be consumed.
SRCHIEFPOPEYE
Lee Paulson
It depends on what you are ranking and who is doing the ranking. I would
not, e.g., go by USN&WR--it relies heavily on self-reporting. NSF and the
NAS both do rankings based on more objective criteria.
--
Regards,
Lee, the James, uM, feminist
The religion that is afraid of science dishonors God and commits suicide.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Lee Paulson
My father still calls my 48-year-old brother "boy." I call my 28-year-old
nephew "boy." What's the big deal?
Lee Paulson
>
> "Silent Mike" <mikeha...@silentmike.us> wrote in message
> news:K4Wqd.1002438$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >> However, when Mike uses the term, think....well....segregation,
separate
> >> water fountains and deadly insults.
> >
> > Geez, Diana. PMS must be doing a number on you today. You're treating
me
> > with the very same discrimination you're accusing me of.
> >
> > How can you accuse me of racist comments when it comes to Ken? We're
both
> > White. I am simply glad Ken bit the big one on the show. It took long
> > enough, and it has nothing to do with his Cracker Jack box (aka BYU)
> > degrees. It has to do with his arrogance, and snarkiness-- and the fact
> > that it's just plain annoying to see the same contestant win 74 times.
> > Ahh..but tonight's episode will be the last we see of the jerk until
> > reruns (and the TOC) hits.
>
> The fact that BYU is anything BUT a 'cracker Jack box' university seems to
> have slipped right by you. Or does the term 'first tier school' mean
nothing
> to you? You know, sharing the air up there with Harvard and Yale?
No, BYU isn't a "first-tier school" by academic standards, Diana. It might
be in a magazine's report, but even that magazine qualifies its rankings
because the data are quite subjective.
Perhaps you could describe what you think "first tier" means. Then we could
discuss it.
snip
DianaC
"David Bowie" <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote in message
news:313gpaF...@uni-berlin.de...
> And lo, DianaC did write:
> : "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote...
>
> :: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
>
> : yes?
>
> : Name some?
> : and their views?
>
> : .........remembering, of course, that BYU is noted most for it's Law
> : school, English department and areas such as this?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Snarf!
>
> Errm, as someone whose first faculty job was in BYU's English Department,
> i don't know that i'd call that one of their nationally-recognized
> programs.
>
> Their Law School, Family Therapy/Marriage Counseling program, Clinical
> Psychology program, and (especially!) Business School, OTOH, most
> certainly *are* world-class (and the programs in the Foreign Languages and
> in Linguistics are developing, if not have developed, really good reps).
>
> David, in a position to hear academic gossip
OK, so I won't go get my MA in English there. (Grin)
And their law school wouldn't have me, so...I guess I'm stuck.
DianaC
"Lee Paulson" <l1pa...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:313o96F...@uni-berlin.de...
USN. However, they also posted the Princeton review, which rated BYU as
first in many of the catagories (mostly fun ones, like 'best party/hold the
booze) but they also listed it as number one as far as libraries go...
Now for NAS:
BYU is not ranked in the top fifty with NAS. I have no clue how it rates
with them, since they don't seem to go below fifty.
RBrad...@kc.rr.com
"Silent Mike" <mikeha...@silentmike.us> wrote in message
news:cQ%qd.1004031$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Silent Mike
>
Of course you do. Because, after all, RBradford, a redneck hick from
redneck Missouri is ALWAYS right. HE is the gauge of truth. Please. I
suppose you feel that I should have jumped at the chance to go to BYU, wind
up with some Mormon chick, and have a miserable temple marriage. Of course,
I ended up with a Mormon chick, but thankfully she's abandoned the idea of
temple marriage.
Clovis Lark
> "David Bowie" <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote in message
> news:313gpaF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> And lo, DianaC did write:
>> : "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote...
>>
>> :: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
>>
>> : yes?
Yes.
>>
>> : Name some?
Don't need to. Ask any. You can ask Lee, right here. Or the lurking
Snakeman, he might answer you here. Ask, say, Drs. Wallace and Brown at
Emory (They're Charles Dowis' buddies), Ask Mario Capecchi at the The U in
SLC. You could ask Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford.
>> : and their views?
I leave that to you. I know the answer already. But you need to discover
for yourself.
>>
>> : .........remembering, of course, that BYU is noted most for it's Law
>> : school, English department and areas such as this?
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Snarf!
>>
>> Errm, as someone whose first faculty job was in BYU's English Department,
>> i don't know that i'd call that one of their nationally-recognized
>> programs.
Thank you!
>>
>> Their Law School,
46th:
http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/law_schools/law_schools.asp
Family Therapy/Marriage Counseling program, Clinical
>> Psychology program,
Clinical Psychology is not even in the top 25:
http://www.socialpsychology.org/ggradoth.htm#clinical
>> and (especially!) Business School,
In the 3rd tier, according to Business Week:
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/00/#top30
>> certainly *are* world-class (and the programs in the Foreign Languages and
>> in Linguistics are developing, if not have developed, really good reps).
>>
>> David, in a position to hear academic gossip
> OK, so I won't go get my MA in English there. (Grin)
> And their law school wouldn't have me, so...I guess I'm stuck.
Go to Cardosa...
DianaC
> DianaC <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
>
>> "David Bowie" <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote in message
>> news:313gpaF...@uni-berlin.de...
>>> And lo, DianaC did write:
>>> : "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote...
>>>
>>> :: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
>>>
>>> : yes?
>
> Yes.
>
>>>
>>> : Name some?
>
> Don't need to. Ask any. You can ask Lee, right here. Or the lurking
> Snakeman, he might answer you here. Ask, say, Drs. Wallace and Brown at
> Emory (They're Charles Dowis' buddies), Ask Mario Capecchi at the The U in
> SLC. You could ask Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford.
>
>>> : and their views?
>
> I leave that to you. I know the answer already. But you need to discover
> for yourself.
No, Clovis. YOU are the one who is claiming that they would be
disrespectful, downright contemptuous, of BYU. I could go around all week
asking people, and if I never got the answers you think I should, you could
say I simply didn't ask the right people. It's up to you. Put up the
references.
Excuse me, but being in the top one hundred universities, or top fifty, is
being a VERY GOOD university. As in, highly respected and qualified.
DianaC
She knows when to cut her losses. I wouldn't want you hanging around for
eternity either.
John Manning
It's very important because it comfortably enhances the desirability of
the golden crotch for more lucrative clients in the potential special
underwear dept. Prospective candidates are now required to be 'worthy'
of the golden crotch that is educated in a adamantly claimed highly
respected and qualified educational institution.
What sincere mammon laden, unmarried, horny LDS CEO can refuse a highly
respected and qualified educated golden tube of delightsomeness?
We could write a screenplay.
David
A) He does not nor will he ever get that much money
B) Ken Jennings is smarter than Mike can ever hope to be
Reality bites<G>
RetroProphet
>Well, considering that you can't even type your insults properly, I take
>that with a grain of salt. Actually, when I was in high school, I was an
>active LDS. I therefore, like any brainwashed Mormon, applied to, and was
>ACCEPTED AT, BYU. I will be more than happy to scan and post my acceptance
>letter should anyone doubt that.
>
>I elected not to go, in favor of a state college in my home state, where my
>then-girlfriend (who later was my first wife) went. That marriage didn't
>work out..ironically, because she kept insulting the Mormon religion, but
>the fact remains I had the chance to go BYU, but was smart enough to pass up
>on it. Of course, I was dumb enough to put my (then) faith above a marriage
>to a girl who was a pretty good piece of tail in bed. Go figure.
Hmmm. A few months ago you told the crowd over at Medialine
that she put it to you, and over your career, not your faith.
And, in that version you don't paint yourself as sacrificing
valiantly in the bed department. Go figure:
"Well, I realize that I am but a lowly Master Control Op,
but I sacrificed my first marriage. She told me my career
or her....so I chose the career. Yeah....it seems stupid
on the surface, but if two situations aren't any good
in bed, you at least choose the one that provides a paycheck!"
The truth is a pretty malleable thing in your little world,
isn't it?
Silent Mike
You're crazy dude; I don't visit Medialine.
--
Website: http://www.silentmike.us
Text Message: mob...@silentmike.us
"RetroProphet" <RetroProp...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:cojaf...@drn.newsguy.com...
Leftist Derangment
>
>
>
> And what the flip is the MATTER with you?
He's a knee-jerk, with emphasis on jerk.
>Does the fact that the man is Mormon so outweigh everything that you have
>to denigrate every accomplishment he has achieved?
Yep. That's the MO of most everyone here. By the various accounts I've
read Mormons:
are unhealthy as a result of living the WOW,
stupid for believing in the God,
stupid for believing the Bible too much,
stupid for believing the Bible too little,
bad because BYU is crappy,
bad because they believe in God,
etc etc.
They are pavlovian in their responses. It matters not what the topic is.
If anything can be turned against Mormons, however positive any fair minded
person would see it, they will find a way to carp, bitch, moan, and accuse.
Leftist Derangment
>
>
>> He got his languages from a childhood abroad.
>>
>
> Yup. Thank the military lifestyle; not his intelligence.
Yeh, he's obviously not very smart. See Diane, I give you Exhibit A. Very
pavlovian.
Leftist Derangment
Actually, it is by many standards. When I attended graduate school at UVa,
I was commended by many, students and teachers alike, for having attended
and excelled at BYU.
As for how well my BYU education prepared me, let's just say I had no
trouble competing for top grades with the boys and girls from Ivy League
schools. I just wasn't depressed like they were.
>
> Perhaps you could describe what you think "first tier" means. Then we
> could
> discuss it.
Wow. That's great coming from a person who received a Ph.D. from Western
Montana St. girls college.
Leftist Derangment
Clovis Lark suggested that a pre-emiment opinion regarding how well BYU is
regarded is non other than our esteemed resident "doctor" Lee Paulson. I
just googled her to find out her steller credentials. This is what I found:
[Nothing]
If you Google the highly esteemable Clovis Lark you'll find almost nothing.
His one claim to Google fame is a recipe for avocado ice cream.
With scholars like that....
Kevin Zoellner
>
>
1st tier according to News and World Report, and you can read all about
how they came to that conclusion.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php
--
Kevin
GySgt USMC (retired)
"I love the Corps for those intangible possessions that cannot be issued: pride, honor, integrity, and being able to carry on the traditions for generations of warriors past." Cpl. Jeff Sornig, USMC
Silent Mike
> --
> Kevin
>
> GySgt USMC (retired)
>
Great..just what we need...a Gay Sergeant.
Clovis Lark
I just did. Did you check them out? But to paraphrase you, they would
indeed be "disrespectful, downright contemptuous" of an institution that
states uncatagorically that "promotion of the faith is job #1". It is
impossible to complete serious, critical inquiry in such an environment.
Indeed, BYU is under sanction for stifling said inquiry.
Nope. It isn't. Regarding their tauted B-School. A good acquaintance,
member of the Marriott family, just decided to return to B-School for an
MBA. He didn't even consider BYU as worthy of application.
Clovis Lark
>>
>>
> 1st tier according to News and World Report, and you can read all about
> how they came to that conclusion.
> http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php
Third tier when you read Business Week:
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/00/#top30:
Clovis Lark
> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
> news:oMWqd.3768$wr6.517@trnddc04...
>>
> Clovis Lark suggested that a pre-emiment opinion regarding how well BYU is
> regarded is non other than our esteemed resident "doctor" Lee Paulson. I
> just googled her to find out her steller credentials. This is what I found:
So, you could as easily have proceeded to Capecchi, Cavalli-Sforza, etc.
> [Nothing]
> If you Google the highly esteemable Clovis Lark you'll find almost nothing.
> His one claim to Google fame is a recipe for avocado ice cream.
> With scholars like that....
You don't google to good do ya, son.
Lee Paulson
educational institutions. If you just asked for rankings, they of course
would refer you to US News &WR.
What is it you think constitutes a top tier university?
NAS doesn't rank BYU for good reasons, only one of which is that its faculty
does not have academic freedom and hence cannot necessarily educate students
objectively.
Lee Paulson
news:M74rd.2016$NO5...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> I find you getting accepted to BYU very difficult to beleive...
>
Why? If you're an average student and LDS, your chances are pretty good.
They don't make you take personality tests. . .
Lee Paulson
LOL! Not the first lie Mike has been caught in.
Lee Paulson
He did. See his response to you below. Nobody is saying BYU is worthless.
It simply is not in the top tier of schools as a general statement of fact.
Is that so awful? Most schools aren't, and they're perfectly good schools.
Are you so defensive just because it's an LDS school?
You're shifting targets here, Diana. First you claimed the BYU English
department was fabulous, but then David Bowie (the real one), who I am
pretty sure is a relatively devout LDS man, corrected you. So you shrug
that off. Etc.
I am beginning to think you ARE defensive ONLY because the school is LDS,
and that would be sort of like what you're accusing Clovis of, wouldn't it?
Lee Paulson
news:aoOdnTa6l8a...@aros.net...
I love the gift of discernment and love as exercised by the devout. It
makes me want to burst into song.
David Bowie
:: "David Bowie" <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote...
::::: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
<snip>
:::: Name some?
: Don't need to. Ask any. You can ask Lee, right here. Or the lurking
: Snakeman, he might answer you here. Ask, say, Drs. Wallace and Brown
: at Emory (They're Charles Dowis' buddies), Ask Mario Capecchi at the
: The U in SLC. You could ask Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford.
Just from my field, if you ask people in Second Language Acquisition their
opinions of the foreign language instruction at BYU, they'll agree it's
amazing in general terms and especially for the breadth of languages.
I know that there's linguists at the U of U who have a rather high opinion
of BYU's undergrad Linguistics program.
And *that*'s rather a crucial thing here--i fear Diana and i on the one
side and you on the other may be talking past each other here. With the
exception of the Law School, everything i talked about previously was
based on *undergrad* programs. Much of what you see in the lists you're
talking about are based on *graduate* programs. Since BYU has a very
heavily undergrad-oriented focus, you can expect some skewing in the
lists.
<snip>
::: Their Law School,
: 46th:
: http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/law_schools/law_schools.asp
Not top of the top tier, agreed, but once you get past the top 15 or 20,
the next 40 or so are all still pretty much top-tier.
::: Family Therapy/Marriage Counseling program, Clinical
::: Psychology program,
: Clinical Psychology is not even in the top 25:
: http://www.socialpsychology.org/ggradoth.htm#clinical
You're looking at a *graduate* program list. BYU's primary CP mission is
training students for advanced study, not offering the advanced study
itself.
And i notice you *completely* ignored the Family Therapy mention.
::: and (especially!) Business School,
: In the 3rd tier, according to Business Week:
: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/00/#top30
Look at undergrad rankings, which *do* exist for B-schools. Consider the
particularly the undergrad Accounting program, which is (and has been for
a long time) considered by far the best in the nation.
<snip, incl. where Clovis ignored the Lx and 2LT programs>
David, recognizing good researchers from poor departments & vice versa
--
David Bowie http://pmpkn.net/lx
Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there is no chocolate in the
house, there is too little; some must be purchased. If there is
chocolate in the house, there is too much; it must be consumed.
Lee Paulson
--
Regards,
Lee, the James, uM, feminist
The religion that is afraid of science dishonors God and commits suicide.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Leftist Derangment" <jo...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:gNidncinAuS...@aros.net...
Gosh Diana! You must not be very good at Google! The first site
referencing me is
Ungulate Management in Yellowstone National Park
... would like to attend the sessions of this meeting that are open to the
public or
need more information please contact: Contact Name: Lee Paulson Email:
lpaulson ...
www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/MeetingDisplay1/ BEST-K-99-03-A?OpenDocument - 10k -
Cached - Similar pages
I love the LDS who do nothing more than attack for the sake of attacking.
The defensiveness and hate is almost palpable.
You should be ashamed of yourself, Diana. I had thought better of you.
David Bowie
<snip>
: Nope. It isn't. Regarding their tauted B-School. A good
: acquaintance, member of the Marriott family, just decided to return
: to B-School for an MBA. He didn't even consider BYU as worthy of
: application.
Neither would i--not because i think they have a poor B-school, but
because i have learned that i'm so utterly and completely an Easterner and
a Southerner that i'm a horribly poor match for the surrounding social
climate. Therefore, if i could afford to go to Vanderbilt or Penn/Wharton,
why would i go to BYU, or even Northwestern?
<snip>
David, suspecting that Clovis is starting to troll on this thread
Lee Paulson
Google this:
Brucellosis in the Greater Yellowstone Area
BRUCELLOSIS IN THE GREATER YELLOWSTONE AREA. Norman F. Cheville, Principal
Investigator
Dale R. McCullough, Principal Investigator Lee R. Paulson, Project ...
books.nap.edu/html/brucellosis/ - 49k - Cached - Similar pages
Nat'l Academies Press, Brucellosis in the Greater Yellowstone Area ...
... OCR for page 149 APPENDIX B 149 Brucellosis in the Greater Yellowstone
... Art Jackson,
Wyoming 8:45 Opening remarks, introductions Lee Paulson, Project Director
...
books.nap.edu/books/0309059895/html/146.html - 61k - Cached - Similar
pages
[ More results from books.nap.edu ]
Answers
... 10. If you want to find out more about the topic of Brucellosis
immunology, who
are some people you should contact? Dr. Martin Roop Lee Paulson Dr. Gerhardt
...
www.cvgs.k12.va.us/bison/ research/immunology/Answers.htm - 12k - Cached -
Similar pages
Resources
Paulson, Lee. "Vaccines." Brucellosis in the Greater Yellowstone Area.
Online
http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/bisonelk/Part3fin.htm, April 9, 1998.
...
www.cvgs.k12.va.us/bison/ research/immunology/Resource.htm - 7k - Cached -
Similar pages
David Bowie
: "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote...
<snip>
:: BYU is not ranked in the top fifty with NAS. I have no clue how it
:: rates with them, since they don't seem to go below fifty.
<snip>
: NAS doesn't rank BYU for good reasons, only one of which is that its
: faculty does not have academic freedom and hence cannot necessarily
: educate students objectively.
Just FTR, AAUP sanction is *not* a criterion for NAS listing.
Also note that (perhaps the *one* place where i'm in wholehearted
agreement with deconstructionism) it's is never possible to "educate
students objectively"--there will *always* be some subjective filtering.
David, trying to post neutrally this time
David Bowie
:: I find you getting accepted to BYU very difficult to beleive...
: Why?...
<straight answer>Because he's emphatic about not following some of the
rules they require of admitted students.</straight answer>
: ...If you're an average student and LDS, your chances are pretty
: good....
Actually, you should check their average admitted student profile--most
certainly well above average, by any measure.
<snip>
(Which is one reason i left BYU--i was uncomfortable teaching those who
were already in a position of intellectual privilege--not my idea of
making a huge contribution.)
David, who hopes to feel like he's helping the world with his life
Lee Paulson
This is one of my points to Diana and the Leftist: Just because a school is
not "top tier" by whatever standards, does not mean it is not a good school.
MOST schools are not top tier. But, as you know, if you look at particular
aspects of schools, their rankings will rise and fall, depending on the
criteria evaluated.
Lee Paulson
I know it's bad to answer myself, but I never Googled myself before. Most
references are to publications I've worked on usually as project director,
sometimes as editor.
Here's for Diana:
http://books.nap.edu/catalog/4983.html
http://books.nap.edu/catalog/5141.html
http://books.nap.edu/catalog/1787.html
http://lab.nap.edu/nap-cgi/discover.cgi?term=brucellosis&restric=NAP&mw=
Anyway, that's enough. There's a bunch of them, if Diana cares to look,
generally dealing with range dynamics with animal use and toxicological and
disease manifestations.
But this makes me think--Diana and Leftist are happy to cast aspersions on
academic credentials and tout their own knowledge. Perhaps they would be
willing to share their backgrounds.
Clovis Lark
> And lo, Clovis Lark did write:
> <snip>
> : Nope. It isn't. Regarding their tauted B-School. A good
> : acquaintance, member of the Marriott family, just decided to return
> : to B-School for an MBA. He didn't even consider BYU as worthy of
> : application.
> Neither would i--not because i think they have a poor B-school, but
> because i have learned that i'm so utterly and completely an Easterner and
> a Southerner that i'm a horribly poor match for the surrounding social
> climate. Therefore, if i could afford to go to Vanderbilt or Penn/Wharton,
> why would i go to BYU, or even Northwestern?
These were not his concerns. He simply felt he could not get competitive
credentials at a provincial school where religion trumped achieving
competency. I would add that I routinely hear the same/similar complaint
concerning other faithbased "universities" (Oral Roberts, Notre Dame,
etc.).
> <snip>
> David, suspecting that Clovis is starting to troll on this thread
Not.
Silent Mike
>
> He did. See his response to you below. Nobody is saying BYU is
> worthless.
> It simply is not in the top tier of schools as a general statement of
> fact.
> Is that so awful? Most schools aren't, and they're perfectly good
> schools.
>
> Are you so defensive just because it's an LDS school?
>
Actually, BYU is worthless; a novelty school.
Silent Mike
> Regards,
> Lee, the James, uM, feminist
>
Feminist= Lesbian
David Bowie
:: And lo, Clovis Lark did write:
::: Nope. It isn't. Regarding their tauted B-School. A good
::: acquaintance, member of the Marriott family, just decided to return
::: to B-School for an MBA. He didn't even consider BYU as worthy of
::: application.
:: Neither would i--not because i think they have a poor B-school, but
:: because i have learned that i'm so utterly and completely an
:: Easterner and a Southerner that i'm a horribly poor match for the
:: surrounding social climate. Therefore, if i could afford to go to
:: Vanderbilt or Penn/Wharton, why would i go to BYU, or even
:: Northwestern?
: These were not his concerns. He simply felt he could not get
: competitive credentials at a provincial school where religion trumped
: achieving competency. I would add that I routinely hear the
: same/similar complaint concerning other faithbased "universities"
: (Oral Roberts, Notre Dame, etc.).
CFR.
<snip>
David, returning to his roots
Clovis Lark
> And lo, Clovis Lark did write:
> :: "David Bowie" <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote...
> ::: And lo, DianaC did write:
> :::: "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote...
> ::::: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
> <snip>
> :::: Name some?
> : Don't need to. Ask any. You can ask Lee, right here. Or the lurking
> : Snakeman, he might answer you here. Ask, say, Drs. Wallace and Brown
> : at Emory (They're Charles Dowis' buddies), Ask Mario Capecchi at the
> : The U in SLC. You could ask Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford.
> Just from my field, if you ask people in Second Language Acquisition their
> opinions of the foreign language instruction at BYU, they'll agree it's
> amazing in general terms and especially for the breadth of languages.
BYU does just fine in disciplines not reliant upon critical inquiry for
their survival. Second language acquisition, accounting, engineering, all
do just fine in this environment.
> I know that there's linguists at the U of U who have a rather high opinion
> of BYU's undergrad Linguistics program.
Again, noting that critical inquiry is not going to be a primary facet at
this level...
> And *that*'s rather a crucial thing here--i fear Diana and i on the one
> side and you on the other may be talking past each other here. With the
> exception of the Law School, everything i talked about previously was
> based on *undergrad* programs. Much of what you see in the lists you're
> talking about are based on *graduate* programs. Since BYU has a very
> heavily undergrad-oriented focus, you can expect some skewing in the
> lists.
And here the emphasis will be upon textbook learning and answering basic
questions not requiring an emphasis upon speculation.
> <snip>
> ::: Their Law School,
> : 46th:
> : http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/law_schools/law_schools.asp
> Not top of the top tier, agreed, but once you get past the top 15 or 20,
> the next 40 or so are all still pretty much top-tier.
Either it is of the top-tier, or it isn't. I note it has a similar
ranking as Indiana, and nobody regards IU as a citting edge program.
> ::: Family Therapy/Marriage Counseling program, Clinical
> ::: Psychology program,
> : Clinical Psychology is not even in the top 25:
> : http://www.socialpsychology.org/ggradoth.htm#clinical
> You're looking at a *graduate* program list. BYU's primary CP mission is
> training students for advanced study, not offering the advanced study
> itself.
That's not what they state on their departmental pages. They focus on the
graduate school and its preparation of grad students for careers in
research and in clinics.
> And i notice you *completely* ignored the Family Therapy mention.
Indeed I did. You'd have to admit it's a rather odd program to base a
university's overall reputation upon. I'm also not in a position to
comment on its excellence, or lack of excellence.
> ::: and (especially!) Business School,
> : In the 3rd tier, according to Business Week:
> : http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/00/#top30
> Look at undergrad rankings, which *do* exist for B-schools. Consider the
> particularly the undergrad Accounting program, which is (and has been for
> a long time) considered by far the best in the nation.
If you are going to bring BYU down to an undergraduate institution for
every discipline, it is going to be competing with community colleges. I
wouls certainly expect it to do well at that level.
> <snip, incl. where Clovis ignored the Lx and 2LT programs>
Feel free to post URL's for the rankings on these important speculative
disciplines...
> David, recognizing good researchers from poor departments & vice versa
And I know good ones as well. Care to list any good speculative
researchers from BYU's programs in linguistics, business, accounting and
second language programs?
Clovis (borrowing a page from David Bowie's sig) who knows what research
constitutes...
David Bowie
<snip>
:: Just from my field, if you ask people in Second Language Acquisition
:: their opinions of the foreign language instruction at BYU, they'll
:: agree it's amazing in general terms and especially for the breadth
:: of languages.
: BYU does just fine in disciplines not reliant upon critical inquiry
: for their survival. Second language acquisition, accounting,
: engineering, all do just fine in this environment.
Since when have 2LA and engineering not been reliant on critical
inquiry?!?
:: I know that there's linguists at the U of U who have a rather high
:: opinion of BYU's undergrad Linguistics program.
: Again, noting that critical inquiry is not going to be a primary
: facet at this level...
You appear to have a complete and utter misunderstanding of what's
involved in undergraduate study of linguistics.
:: And *that*'s rather a crucial thing here--i fear Diana and i on the
:: one side and you on the other may be talking past each other here.
:: With the exception of the Law School, everything i talked about
:: previously was based on *undergrad* programs. Much of what you see
:: in the lists you're talking about are based on *graduate* programs.
:: Since BYU has a very heavily undergrad-oriented focus, you can
:: expect some skewing in the lists.
: And here the emphasis will be upon textbook learning and answering
: basic questions not requiring an emphasis upon speculation.
You appear, FTM, to have a complete and utter misunderstanding of what's
involved in modern undergraduate study generally.
<snip>
Re: Law School:
:: Not top of the top tier, agreed, but once you get past the top 15 or
:: 20, the next 40 or so are all still pretty much top-tier.
: Either it is of the top-tier, or it isn't. I note it has a similar
: ranking as Indiana, and nobody regards IU as a citting edge program.
Neither does anyone cite IU as a bottom-feeder.
<snip>
Re: Counseling Psychology:
:: You're looking at a *graduate* program list. BYU's primary CP
:: mission is training students for advanced study, not offering the
:: advanced study itself.
: That's not what they state on their departmental pages. They focus
: on the graduate school and its preparation of grad students for
: careers in research and in clinics.
Fair enough. I can only comment on what their focus is from actual
occasional interaction with faculty there, so i defer to your superior
involvement with the program.
:: And i notice you *completely* ignored the Family Therapy mention.
: Indeed I did. You'd have to admit it's a rather odd program to base a
: university's overall reputation upon. I'm also not in a position to
: comment on its excellence, or lack of excellence.
It's a field that's growing in importance lately.
<snip>
Re: Business School:
:: Look at undergrad rankings, which *do* exist for B-schools. Consider
:: the particularly the undergrad Accounting program, which is (and has
:: been for a long time) considered by far the best in the nation.
: If you are going to bring BYU down to an undergraduate institution for
: every discipline, it is going to be competing with community
: colleges. I wouls certainly expect it to do well at that level.
Odd--i never realized than Bowdoin, Colby, and the like are at the same
level as community colleges. Perhaps you'd care to restructure your
argument, in light of the fact that there are lots and *lots* of *purely*
undergraduate institutions in this country that can't even begin to be
thought of as at the level of the community colleges?
:: <snip, incl. where Clovis ignored the Lx and 2LT programs>
: Feel free to post URL's for the rankings on these important
: speculative disciplines...
Define "speculative"--seriously. Just because you're not familiar with the
research done in such fields does not mean it's speculative, unless you're
defining the term *way* differently from any definition of it i've ever
run across before.
:: David, recognizing good researchers from poor departments & vice versa
: And I know good ones as well. Care to list any good speculative
: researchers from BYU's programs in linguistics, business, accounting
: and second language programs?
No, because they're not speculative fields.
(You set that one up too easily, Clovis--you're slipping.)
: Clovis (borrowing a page from David Bowie's sig) who knows what
: research constitutes...
David, who's read _Speculative grammarian_
DianaC
<snip to>
>>> No, Clovis. YOU are the one who is claiming that they would be
>>> disrespectful, downright contemptuous, of BYU. I could go around all
>>> week
>>> asking people, and if I never got the answers you think I should, you
>>> could
>>> say I simply didn't ask the right people. It's up to you. Put up the
>>> references.
>
> I just did. Did you check them out? But to paraphrase you, they would
> indeed be "disrespectful, downright contemptuous" of an institution that
> states uncatagorically that "promotion of the faith is job #1". It is
> impossible to complete serious, critical inquiry in such an environment.
> Indeed, BYU is under sanction for stifling said inquiry.
Oh, dear. A private religious university promotes the religion that funds
it. How incredibly naive of them. Of course, this also begs the question of
what sanction and who placed it and what their agenda is.
DianaC
> He did. See his response to you below. Nobody is saying BYU is
> worthless.
> It simply is not in the top tier of schools as a general statement of
> fact.
> Is that so awful? Most schools aren't, and they're perfectly good
> schools.
>
> Are you so defensive just because it's an LDS school?
I'm "defensive' because it was attacked as being considerably less than it
actually is. No, BYU isn't Harvard. I'm rather glad it's NOT Harvard.
It is, however, in the top 100 universities in the country no matter who is
doing the rankings, and to have it dismissed as something less than Podunk
Jr. College, as if a degree from BYU is utterly worthless (as both Mike and
Clovis were doing) is annoying.
AND indicative of the incredibly blind and idiotic bias on the part of both,
neither of whom can see past the fact that it is an LDS university to the
FACT that it's also a very GOOD university.
DianaC
Exhibit A.
Clovis Lark
> And lo, Clovis Lark did write:
> : David Bowie <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote:
> <snip>
> :: Just from my field, if you ask people in Second Language Acquisition
> :: their opinions of the foreign language instruction at BYU, they'll
> :: agree it's amazing in general terms and especially for the breadth
> :: of languages.
> : BYU does just fine in disciplines not reliant upon critical inquiry
> : for their survival. Second language acquisition, accounting,
> : engineering, all do just fine in this environment.
> Since when have 2LA and engineering not been reliant on critical
> inquiry?!?
Since they are applied fields and the bulk, especially undergrad, are
focused on learning an accepted canon of lore.
> :: I know that there's linguists at the U of U who have a rather high
> :: opinion of BYU's undergrad Linguistics program.
> : Again, noting that critical inquiry is not going to be a primary
> : facet at this level...
> You appear to have a complete and utter misunderstanding of what's
> involved in undergraduate study of linguistics.
Odd, but we KNOW you are going to fill us in and show us how undergrads
are turning the discipline upsidedown with their critical insights.
> :: And *that*'s rather a crucial thing here--i fear Diana and i on the
> :: one side and you on the other may be talking past each other here.
> :: With the exception of the Law School, everything i talked about
> :: previously was based on *undergrad* programs. Much of what you see
> :: in the lists you're talking about are based on *graduate* programs.
> :: Since BYU has a very heavily undergrad-oriented focus, you can
> :: expect some skewing in the lists.
> : And here the emphasis will be upon textbook learning and answering
> : basic questions not requiring an emphasis upon speculation.
> You appear, FTM, to have a complete and utter misunderstanding of what's
> involved in modern undergraduate study generally.
Odd, since not only was I a participant, but also taught in such a
program. Appearances, like rankings are...
> <snip>
> Re: Law School:
> :: Not top of the top tier, agreed, but once you get past the top 15 or
> :: 20, the next 40 or so are all still pretty much top-tier.
> : Either it is of the top-tier, or it isn't. I note it has a similar
> : ranking as Indiana, and nobody regards IU as a citting edge program.
> Neither does anyone cite IU as a bottom-feeder.
It's close, catfish around here look pretty thin...
> <snip>
> Re: Counseling Psychology:
> :: You're looking at a *graduate* program list. BYU's primary CP
> :: mission is training students for advanced study, not offering the
> :: advanced study itself.
> : That's not what they state on their departmental pages. They focus
> : on the graduate school and its preparation of grad students for
> : careers in research and in clinics.
> Fair enough. I can only comment on what their focus is from actual
> occasional interaction with faculty there, so i defer to your superior
> involvement with the program.
I simply read what they described as the focus of their program. It would
seem odd that they would choose to misrepresent it. The page looks pretty
clear, honest and straight forward.
> :: And i notice you *completely* ignored the Family Therapy mention.
> : Indeed I did. You'd have to admit it's a rather odd program to base a
> : university's overall reputation upon. I'm also not in a position to
> : comment on its excellence, or lack of excellence.
> It's a field that's growing in importance lately.
Do you think it will eclipse the BYU volleyball program in stature?
(noting here where BYU is undisputedly #1)
> <snip>
> Re: Business School:
> :: Look at undergrad rankings, which *do* exist for B-schools. Consider
> :: the particularly the undergrad Accounting program, which is (and has
> :: been for a long time) considered by far the best in the nation.
> : If you are going to bring BYU down to an undergraduate institution for
> : every discipline, it is going to be competing with community
> : colleges. I wouls certainly expect it to do well at that level.
> Odd--i never realized than Bowdoin, Colby, and the like are at the same
> level as community colleges. Perhaps you'd care to restructure your
> argument, in light of the fact that there are lots and *lots* of *purely*
> undergraduate institutions in this country that can't even begin to be
> thought of as at the level of the community colleges?
Sorry David, this is a chatgroup, and you are not my advisor. Thus I'm
not going to waste my time in a pointless restrusturing. However, it was
pretty clear what I meant. The discussion began by lauding BYU as a
leading "University". Suddenly, we are told NOT to include all programs,
rather only ungraduate programs, even though the initial examples were for
graduate schools. My comment noted that by the time one lowers the bar
sufficiently, one will be making comparison with community colleges and
Vo-Tech schools. And yes, I do know of Barnard, Smith, Bryn Mawr,
Swarthmore, etc.
> :: <snip, incl. where Clovis ignored the Lx and 2LT programs>
> : Feel free to post URL's for the rankings on these important
> : speculative disciplines...
> Define "speculative"--seriously. Just because you're not familiar with the
> research done in such fields does not mean it's speculative, unless you're
> defining the term *way* differently from any definition of it i've ever
> run across before.
Theoretical, abstract work that is not immediately applicable,
experimental or exploratory research where results or outcomes are
uncertain or cannot be guaranteed, or where a significant degree of risk
is involved.
> :: David, recognizing good researchers from poor departments & vice versa
> : And I know good ones as well. Care to list any good speculative
> : researchers from BYU's programs in linguistics, business, accounting
> : and second language programs?
> No, because they're not speculative fields.
So we agree on the nature of speculative research.
> (You set that one up too easily, Clovis--you're slipping.)
No I didn't. You answered just as I wanted you to.
> : Clovis (borrowing a page from David Bowie's sig) who knows what
> : research constitutes...
> David, who's read _Speculative grammarian_
And I've read Speculum musicae in one of my acquired other languages
gained through rote study on my own...
DianaC
> <RBrad...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:M74rd.2016$NO5...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> I find you getting accepted to BYU very difficult to beleive...
>>
>
> Why? If you're an average student and LDS, your chances are pretty good.
> They don't make you take personality tests. . .
"Average" students don't make it into BYU. You need to check the admission
criteria a little more closely.
Leftist Derangment
> David Bowie <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote:
>> And lo, Clovis Lark did write:
>> :: "David Bowie" <db....@pmpkn.net> wrote...
>> ::: And lo, DianaC did write:
>> :::: "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote...
>
>> ::::: Ask any research scientist for their views on BYU...
>
>> <snip>
>
>> :::: Name some?
>
>> : Don't need to. Ask any. You can ask Lee, right here. Or the lurking
>> : Snakeman, he might answer you here. Ask, say, Drs. Wallace and Brown
>> : at Emory (They're Charles Dowis' buddies), Ask Mario Capecchi at the
>> : The U in SLC. You could ask Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford.
>
>> Just from my field, if you ask people in Second Language Acquisition
>> their
>> opinions of the foreign language instruction at BYU, they'll agree it's
>> amazing in general terms and especially for the breadth of languages.
>
> BYU does just fine in disciplines not reliant upon critical inquiry for
> their survival. Second language acquisition, accounting, engineering, all
> do just fine in this environment. >
That's about as ignorant a statement as can be imagined. Every discipline
requires many types of "critical inquiry", which doesn't mean what you might
or apparently think it does.
I went to BYU and then to graduate school, and low and behold, my critical
thinking skills were as sharply honed, if not more so, than my peers from
Ivy League schools who often unquentionably absorbed the platitudes and
ridiculousness offered by the "critical theory" types whilst I had the
understanding and fortitude to call them to the mat many times. I recall
one woman saying, "hey, you're using critical theory against us. Not
fair!!" with a smile on her face.
>
>> I know that there's linguists at the U of U who have a rather high
>> opinion
>> of BYU's undergrad Linguistics program.
>
> Again, noting that critical inquiry is not going to be a primary facet at
> this level...
>
That's absurd. What requires more critical inquiry? Music? Playing
fiddles? Trumpeting?
>> And *that*'s rather a crucial thing here--i fear Diana and i on the one
>> side and you on the other may be talking past each other here. With the
>> exception of the Law School, everything i talked about previously wa
>> based on *undergrad* programs. Much of what you see in the lists you're
>> talking about are based on *graduate* programs. Since BYU has a very
>> heavily undergrad-oriented focus, you can expect some skewing in the
>> lists.
>
> And here the emphasis will be upon textbook learning and answering basic
> questions not requiring an emphasis upon >speculation.
How many classes at BYU have you ever attended? If the answer is "zero"
then you're simply blowing speculative smoke out of your arse.
My experience was quite different. I recall in calculus my professor
explaining why his exams always when beyond the studied material because
"any chimpanzee can plug in the numbers and watch the answers pop out". His
tests always demanded one to enter the unknown armed only with tools learned
doing other things. That's about as "speculative" as one could imagine.
On the other hand, what passes on so-called major universities often fails
to go beyond regurgitating the professor's own novel ax he or she happens to
grind. I saw it with my own eyes.
>
>> <snip>
>
>> ::: Their Law School,
>
>> : 46th:
>> : http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/law_schools/law_schools.asp
>
>> Not top of the top tier, agreed, but once you get past the top 15 or 20,
>> the next 40 or so are all still pretty much top-tier.
>
> Either it is of the top-tier, or it isn't. I note it has a similar
> ranking as Indiana, and nobody regards IU as a citting edge program.
It's ranked 31st elsewhere, just beyond GW, which IS highly regarded.
>
>> ::: Family Therapy/Marriage Counseling program, Clinical
>> ::: Psychology program,
>
>> : Clinical Psychology is not even in the top 25:
>> : http://www.socialpsychology.org/ggradoth.htm#clinical
>
>> You're looking at a *graduate* program list. BYU's primary CP mission is
>> training students for advanced study, not offering the advanced study
>> itself.
>
> That's not what they state on their departmental pages. They focus on the
> graduate school and its preparation of grad students for careers in
> research and in clinics.>
That's right, **preparation** for graduate studies, which isn't the same as
graduate studies themselves. And from what I could tell, I was as prepared,
or more so, for graduate work, than many of my peers from Ivy League
schools, thus proving that BYU gave me all I could have gotten elsewhere.
>
>> And i notice you *completely* ignored the Family Therapy mention.
>
> Indeed I did. You'd have to admit it's a rather odd program to base a
> university's overall reputation upon.>
But given the extreme difficulties and conflicts in familiar and spousel
relations, one can't imagine a discipline that would require more "critical"
and imaginitive inquiry than family relations.
> I'm also not in a position to
> comment on its excellence, or lack of excellence. >
Well, finally we can agree on one thing. Of course, why stop there since
your statement applies across the board.
>
>> ::: and (especially!) Business School,
>
>> : In the 3rd tier, according to Business Week:
>
>> : http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/00/#top30
>
>> Look at undergrad rankings, which *do* exist for B-schools. Consider the
>> particularly the undergrad Accounting program, which is (and has been for
>> a long time) considered by far the best in the nation.
>
> If you are going to bring BYU down to an undergraduate institution for
> every discipline, it is going to be competing with community colleges.
That's dumb unless you can name any community colleges that have top tier
ranked programs in noted disciplines like accounting, engineering, or
languages. We're not talking diesel mechanic school or typing.
>I
> wouls certainly expect it to do well at that level.
>
>> <snip, incl. where Clovis ignored the Lx and 2LT programs>
>
> Feel free to post URL's for the rankings on these important speculative
> disciplines...
>
Define what you mean by "speculative discipline".
>> David, recognizing good researchers from poor departments & vice versa
>
> And I know good ones as well. Care to list any good speculative
> researchers from BYU's programs in linguistics, business, accounting and
> second language programs?
What do you mean by "good speculative researchers"? Someone like yourself
who mentally masturbates over Mormons and Mormonism 24-7?
>
> Clovis (borrowing a page from David Bowie's sig) who knows what research
> constitutes...
What great research have you undertaken? Does any of it not involve
mentally masturbating over Mormons and Mormonism?
Leftist Derangment
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Lee, the James, uM, feminist
>>
>
> Feminist= Lesbian
>
>
I'm glad you weighed in with that one Mike. Brilliant!
Leftist Derangment
> news:M74rd.2016$NO5...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> I find you getting accepted to BYU very difficult to beleive...
>>
>
> Why? If you're an average student and LDS, your chances are pretty good.
> They don't make you take personality tests. .
That's about as ignorant a statement as one would imagine. Lee is obviously
completely uninformed as to the criteria that must be met to actually be
accepted at BYU or she's just blowing smoke out her arse.
DianaC
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Lee, the James, uM, feminist
>
> The religion that is afraid of science dishonors God and commits suicide.
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
> "Leftist Derangment" <jo...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:gNidncinAuS...@aros.net...
>>
>> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:oMWqd.3768$wr6.517@trnddc04...
>> >
>>
>> Clovis Lark suggested that a pre-emiment opinion regarding how well BYU
>> is
>> regarded is non other than our esteemed resident "doctor" Lee Paulson. I
>> just googled her to find out her steller credentials. This is what I
> found:
>>
>>
>> [Nothing]
>>
>> If you Google the highly esteemable Clovis Lark you'll find almost
> nothing.
>> His one claim to Google fame is a recipe for avocado ice cream.
>>
>> With scholars like that....
>>
>>
>
> Gosh Diana! You must not be very good at Google! The first site
> referencing me is
>
Attribute much, Lee? (Grin) That wasn't me. That was "Leftist Derangement".
I 'google' very well indeed. two key strokes and I came up with 312 hits.
I'm certain that broadening the search would get more; for instance, since
google has all the usnet posts archived...
> Ungulate Management in Yellowstone National Park
> ... would like to attend the sessions of this meeting that are open to the
> public or
> need more information please contact: Contact Name: Lee Paulson Email:
> lpaulson ...
> www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/MeetingDisplay1/ BEST-K-99-03-A?OpenDocument -
> 10k -
> Cached - Similar pages
>
>
>
> I love the LDS who do nothing more than attack for the sake of attacking.
> The defensiveness and hate is almost palpable.
>
> You should be ashamed of yourself, Diana. I had thought better of you.
yes. Well.....
Leftist Derangment
>> Wow. That's great coming from a person who received a Ph.D. from Western
>> Montana St. girls college.
>>
>>
>>
> I beg your pardon?
>
Here it is. Don't beg.
> I love the gift of discernment and love as exercised by the devout.>
Can't take a little ribbing?
> It
> makes me want to burst into song.
>
>
While you're singing, could you add a few bars regarding your stellar
undergraduate and graduate educations that would make you an expert on what
constitutes a top university?
Leftist Derangment
"Kevin Zoellner" <k.zoe...@nospam.comcast.com> wrote in message
news:VSbrd.125239$5K2.63994@attbi_s03...
>
>>
> 1st tier according to News and World Report, and you can read all about
> how they came to that conclusion.
> http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php
>
> --
> Kevin
>
But I though Notre Dame was merely a "university" in quotes according to Mr.
Lark. What does that make Cal-Berkeley, which is ranked lower?
> GySgt USMC (retired)
>
> "I love the Corps for those intangible possessions that cannot be issued:
> pride, honor, integrity, and being able to carry on the traditions for
> generations of warriors past." Cpl. Jeff Sornig, USMC
Clovis Lark
> "Lee Paulson" <l1pa...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:3162etF...@individual.net...
>> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
> <snip>
>> He did. See his response to you below. Nobody is saying BYU is
>> worthless.
>> It simply is not in the top tier of schools as a general statement of
>> fact.
>> Is that so awful? Most schools aren't, and they're perfectly good
>> schools.
>>
>> Are you so defensive just because it's an LDS school?
> I'm "defensive' because it was attacked as being considerably less than it
> actually is. No, BYU isn't Harvard. I'm rather glad it's NOT Harvard.
> It is, however, in the top 100 universities in the country no matter who is
> doing the rankings, and to have it dismissed as something less than Podunk
> Jr. College, as if a degree from BYU is utterly worthless (as both Mike and
> Clovis were doing) is annoying.
Where did I say a degree is worthless? Actual quote please.
> AND indicative of the incredibly blind and idiotic bias on the part of both,
> neither of whom can see past the fact that it is an LDS university to the
> FACT that it's also a very GOOD university.
It is a mediocre university with some strong suites: accounting, 2nd
language program, etc. HOwever, by the school's OWN admission "U.S. News
and World Report gave BYU high marks in several categories in its 2004
“America’s Best Colleges” issue, ranking BYU in the second tier (67th) in
the category of “Best National Universities".
http://unicomm.byu.edu/about/factfile/rankings.aspx?lms=16
BYU falls short when it comes to academic freedom. (from the AAUP) "The
climate for academic freedom at Brigham Young University is "distressingly
poor" and infringements widespread"
"I was surprised by the number of cases that came to our attention," said
AAUP investigator Linda Pratt, a professor at the University of Nebraska.
"Usually, when AAUP comes to a campus, we know about one or possibly two
very troubling cases, but with BYU, there was just a flood of them."
Leftist Derangment
> Leftist Derangment <jo...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
>>>
>
>> Clovis Lark suggested that a pre-emiment opinion regarding how well BYU
>> is
>> regarded is non other than our esteemed resident "doctor" Lee Paulson. I
>> just googled her to find out her steller credentials. This is what I
>> found:
>
>
>> [Nothing]
>
>> If you Google the highly esteemable Clovis Lark you'll find almost
>> nothing.
>> His one claim to Google fame is a recipe for avocado ice cream.
>
>> With scholars like that....
>
>
>
Don't use grammar to good do you?
Lee Paulson
The AAUP sanctioned BYU.
DianaC
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
> "Lee Paulson" <l1pa...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:3162qcF...@individual.net...
>
> But this makes me think--Diana and Leftist are happy to cast aspersions on
> academic credentials and tout their own knowledge. Perhaps they would be
> willing to share their backgrounds.
Diana has NEVER cast aspersions on your academic credentials, Lee. It's too
easy to check up on you if you fib, so I figure you are who you say you are,
and have accomplished what you say you have. Again, that wasn't me who said
he couldn't find you on a google search. After your last post, I DID a
google search on you. My first attempt resulted in 312 hits (which I didn't
winnow down to find out who was 'you').
As to my background, it's nowhere near as exalted as yours. I have been
trying for 35 years just to get one measly BA, which I'm about to aquire in
June, from California State University Bakersfield, the Antelope Valley
campus extension. In other words, not exactly Cambridge (though I may get to
GO to Cambridge...the English version, not the Massachusetts one, for my
Masters) or Yale or Harvard, or even BYU. Still, it's been a long hard road
and I'm the last person in the world to dismiss ANY college degree as being
negligible or 'novelty', much less advanced degrees or multiple
undergraduate degrees. I am Majoring in English, minoring in communications
with an emphasis on computer communications.
The reason I didn't get my degree far earlier than this is that I let life
interfere. You know, mission, marriage, kids, widowhood, just stuff.
So go ahead, scoff, I know it's not much, it's certainly not up to your
degree standards, but I don't care. It's mine. I earned it. Brother, have I
earned it!
Clovis Lark
American Association of University Professors. Their agenda is simple as
per BYU:
The climate for academic freedom at Brigham Young University is
"distressingly poor" and infringements widespread.
The AAUP report castigates BYU for several cases in recent years,
including the firing of Professor Steven Epperson, who fell out of favor
with his bishop for failing to attend church on Sundays. Epperson said he
spent that time with his family feeding homeless people in Salt Lake City.
Several other cases of academic freedom violations are mentioned in the
AAUP report, though investigators said they heard so many complaints
during their interviews with more than 100 individuals that not every one
was outlined.
"I was surprised by the number of cases that came to our attention," said
AAUP investigator Linda Pratt, a professor at the University of Nebraska.
"Usually, when AAUP comes to a campus, we know about one or possibly two
very troubling cases, but with BYU, there was just a flood of them."
You can read about them here:
Leftist Derangment
> Regards,
> Lee, the James, uM, feminist
>
> The religion that is afraid of science dishonors God and commits suicide.
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>> >
>>
>> Clovis Lark suggested that a pre-emiment opinion regarding how well BYU
>> is
>> regarded is non other than our esteemed resident "doctor" Lee Paulson. I
>> just googled her to find out her steller credentials. This is what I
> found:
>>
>>
>>
>> If you Google the highly esteemable Clovis Lark you'll find almost
> nothing.
>> His one claim to Google fame is a recipe for avocado ice cream.
>>
>> With scholars like that....
>>
>>
>
> referencing me is
>
> ... would like to attend the sessions of this meeting that are open to the
> public or
> need more information please contact: Contact Name: Lee Paulson Email:
> lpaulson ...
> www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/MeetingDisplay1/ BEST-K-99-03-A?OpenDocument -
> 10k -
> Cached - Similar pages
What's that? Park ranger? Students of unimpressive background usually wind
up in dead end government jobs.
>
>
>
> I love the LDS who do nothing more than attack for the sake of attacking.
> The defensiveness and hate is almost palpable.
>
But you, who aren't even Mormon, and Lark, same deal, post here out of shear
love and compassion toward Mormons. If that's love, I'd hate to see what
happens when it's really hate.
DianaC
> "Leftist Derangment" <jo...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:gNidncinAuS...@aros.net...
>>
>> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:oMWqd.3768$wr6.517@trnddc04...
>> >
>
> Google this:
<snip to end>
I'm hurt. (sniff) You lambast the stuffin' out of, and blame, ME for
something that Leftist did, but what do you do to Leftist?
"google this"??
Dang.
Some mornings it just doesn't pay to get up.
Lee Paulson
Diana, what do you consider a "top tier" university?
Lee Paulson
news:31632tF...@individual.net...
> And lo, Lee Paulson did write:
> : "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote...
>
> <snip>
>
> :: BYU is not ranked in the top fifty with NAS. I have no clue how it
> :: rates with them, since they don't seem to go below fifty.
>
> <snip>
>
> : NAS doesn't rank BYU for good reasons, only one of which is that its
> : faculty does not have academic freedom and hence cannot necessarily
> : educate students objectively.
>
> Just FTR, AAUP sanction is *not* a criterion for NAS listing.
>
> Also note that (perhaps the *one* place where i'm in wholehearted
> agreement with deconstructionism) it's is never possible to "educate
> students objectively"--there will *always* be some subjective filtering.
>
Of course there's subjectiveness. The NAS criteria does include academic
sanctions, fyi. I'll get the citation for you.
They also include many other criteria, including how many students pursue
higher degrees, etc.
Lee Paulson
Diana,
You refused to Google your own citations, so I guess it's too much to expect
you to document this too.
You make the claim, you substantiate it. That's how it works. What makes
BYU students stand out from any other academic admission?
And what is a "top tier" school?
Lee Paulson
Exhibit A of what?
DianaC
> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
> news:kWmrd.5878$Hk6.4800@trnddc05...
>>
>> "Silent Mike" <mikeha...@silentmike.us> wrote in message
>> news:kIlrd.78777$7i4....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> He did. See his response to you below. Nobody is saying BYU is
>> >> worthless.
>> >> It simply is not in the top tier of schools as a general statement of
>> >> fact.
>> >> Is that so awful? Most schools aren't, and they're perfectly good
>> >> schools.
>> >>
>> >> Are you so defensive just because it's an LDS school?
>> >>
>> > Actually, BYU is worthless; a novelty school.
>>
>> Exhibit A.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Exhibit A of what?
Mike's blind and bigoted view of everything LDS.
Of the claim I made in
Clovis Lark
> "DianaC" <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
> news:2Smrd.5876$Hk6.1888@trnddc05...
>>
>> "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
>> news:cokhcc$qrb$3...@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
>> <snip to>
>>
>> >>> No, Clovis. YOU are the one who is claiming that they would be
>> >>> disrespectful, downright contemptuous, of BYU. I could go around all
>> >>> week
>> >>> asking people, and if I never got the answers you think I should, you
>> >>> could
>> >>> say I simply didn't ask the right people. It's up to you. Put up the
>> >>> references.
>> >
>> > I just did. Did you check them out? But to paraphrase you, they would
>> > indeed be "disrespectful, downright contemptuous" of an institution that
>> > states uncatagorically that "promotion of the faith is job #1". It is
>> > impossible to complete serious, critical inquiry in such an environment.
>> > Indeed, BYU is under sanction for stifling said inquiry.
>>
>> Oh, dear. A private religious university promotes the religion that funds
>> it. How incredibly naive of them. Of course, this also begs the question
> of
>> what sanction and who placed it and what their agenda is.
>>
>>
> Diana, what do you consider a "top tier" university?
BYU quotes USNews as saying it is a "second tier" university...
"U.S. News and World Report gave BYU high marks in several categories in
its 2004 “America’s Best Colleges” issue, ranking BYU in the second tier
(67th) in the category of “Best National Universities,"
http://unicomm.byu.edu/about/factfile/rankings.aspx
Leftist Derangment
> DianaC <dian...@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
>
>> "Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
>> news:cokhcc$qrb$3...@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
>> <snip to>
>
>>>>> No, Clovis. YOU are the one who is claiming that they would be
>>>>> disrespectful, downright contemptuous, of BYU. I could go around all
>>>>> week
>>>>> asking people, and if I never got the answers you think I should, you
>>>>> could
>>>>> say I simply didn't ask the right people. It's up to you. Put up the
>>>>> references.
>>>
>>> I just did. Did you check them out? But to paraphrase you, they would
>>> indeed be "disrespectful, downright contemptuous" of an institution that
>>> states uncatagorically that "promotion of the faith is job #1". It is
>>> impossible to complete serious, critical inquiry in such an environment.
>>> Indeed, BYU is under sanction for stifling said inquiry.
>
>> Oh, dear. A private religious university promotes the religion that funds
>> it. How incredibly naive of them. Of course, this also begs the question
>> of
>> what sanction and who placed it and what their agenda is.
>
> American Association of University Professors. Their agenda is simple as
> per BYU:
>
> The climate for academic freedom at Brigham Young University is
> "distressingly poor" and infringements widespread.
>
Yep, that's their opinion. But it's based on their own personal biases.
Since they cannot even begin to comprehend the mission of the Church and BYU
it's no wonder they are dismayed. They are acting out of ignorance, not
malice, I would surmise.
Clovis Lark
Clovis Lark
No, they are acting in response to onsite interviews with faculty and to
specific complaints by BYU employees:
The Eighty-fourth Annual Meeting voted censure in 1998 on the basis of a
published report that described the case of an assistant professor who was
denied tenure on grounds that her actions and words were contrary to the
tenets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and harmful to
Brigham Young University. The report found that the university's stated
limitations on academic freedom provide inadequate guidance to faculty
members and give excessive discretion to the administration. Noting
references to displeasure with the assistant professor's focus on
feminism, the investigating committee found that, to the extent that this
displeasure was a factor in denying her tenure, her academic freedom was
thereby violated.
The report also found that the university's procedures for appeal are
inadequate when measured against those called for in the Association's
Recommended Institutional Regulations on Academic Freedom and Tenure.
Citing an array of complaints that had been brought to the investigating
committee's attention, the report concluded that the climate for academic
freedom at Brigham Young University is distressingly poor.
The president of Brigham Young University during the Association's
investigation and ensuing imposition of censure left office last May. The
Association's staff has written to his successor, Dr. Cecil O. Samuelson,
Jr., inviting an exploration of steps that could lead to the censure's
removal.
On October 22, 1996, Steven Epperson, an assistant professor of history
at BYU since 1993, was told that his services would no longer be required
as of the end of August 1997. This made him an early casualty of the
policy announced by BYU President Merrill Bateman on February 8, 1996,
according to which the bishop "of each Church member employed at BYU"
would be asked to certify annually "whether the person is currently
eligible for a [temple] recommend."
Steven Epperson stands for others who are currently under investigation
by the BYU administration (on December 13, 1996, Merrill Bateman told BYU
Humanities faculty that these number approximately 100) and who, too, may
be asked to leave, one by one, in the coming months. By insisting on the
letter of its new policy, by weeding out members of the staff and faculty
who cannot satisfy individual bishops' personal interpretations of the
standard of temple worthiness, no matter how idiosyncratic, what does the
University lose?
Lee Paulson
> > He did. See his response to you below. Nobody is saying BYU is
> > worthless.
> > It simply is not in the top tier of schools as a general statement of
> > fact.
> > Is that so awful? Most schools aren't, and they're perfectly good
> > schools.
> >
> > Are you so defensive just because it's an LDS school?
>
> actually is. No, BYU isn't Harvard. I'm rather glad it's NOT Harvard.
>
> It is, however, in the top 100 universities in the country no matter who
is
> doing the rankings,
Ranked based on WHAT? That's all I'm looking for clarification on. It's
not in the top 100 for any number of areas and neither is Harvard.
Further, what possible difference does school ranking hold for you?
BYU is a religious school. It has certain drawbacks for the general
population as a result of that. Those same drawbacks might be assets to an
LDS student.
and to have it dismissed as something less than Podunk
> Jr. College, as if a degree from BYU is utterly worthless (as both Mike
and
> Clovis were doing) is annoying.
>
> AND indicative of the incredibly blind and idiotic bias on the part of
both,
> neither of whom can see past the fact that it is an LDS university to the
> FACT that it's also a very GOOD university.
>
--
Lee Paulson
Yes, my poor husband will be devastated. I know I am.
--
Regards,
Lee, the James, uM, feminist
The religion that is afraid of science dishonors God and commits suicide.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Lee Paulson
So post it. What makes the BYU admissions process any more stringent than
any other university?
I love the LDS phrase "she's just blowing smoke out her arse." It sort of
makes me warm all over, what with all the loving sentiment that must be
behind it.
Lee Paulson
You don't spell very well, do you?
Lee Paulson
I apologize, Diana. I think I'm going blind.
I don't have a particularly exalted academic career, just a long one. I am
the first to admit I regret in some ways narrowing my perspective to the
point that I am incapable of discussing an awful lot of things.
I do think the folks in arm (and you might remember a discussion I had with
Charles Dowis about this) dismiss higher education as though it is time
wasted and something to be scorned often enough. With Charles it was pretty
much that anyone could understand the intricacies of genetic research by
reading Discover. I like to think that what I do know I know pretty well.
And unlike Charles, I do not read Greek.
SRCHIEFPOPEYE
DianaC
>
> I apologize, Diana. I think I'm going blind.
No problem, Lee, if I HAD disparaged your degrees and at the same time said
that I couldn't find you on google (shoot, I can find ME on google!!!) I
would have deserved every hard word. ;-)
>
> I don't have a particularly exalted academic career, just a long one. I
> am
> the first to admit I regret in some ways narrowing my perspective to the
> point that I am incapable of discussing an awful lot of things.
>
> I do think the folks in arm (and you might remember a discussion I had
> with
> Charles Dowis about this) dismiss higher education as though it is time
> wasted and something to be scorned often enough. With Charles it was
> pretty
> much that anyone could understand the intricacies of genetic research by
> reading Discover. I like to think that what I do know I know pretty
> well.
> And unlike Charles, I do not read Greek.
I don't read Greek either.
..............but I will by summer!! (Grin)
Silent Mike
> Since they cannot even begin to comprehend the mission of the Church and
> BYU it's no wonder they are dismayed. They are acting out of ignorance,
> not malice, I would surmise.
>
Oh, I get it. So because BYU is supposedly on some sort of a "mission",
they are therefore permitted to violate the civil and personal privacy
rights of its employees, and commit other civil violations. It's all clear
to me now.
By your own admission, Mormons don't obey the law, and think they are above
it. Gotcha loud and clear, Ace.
--
--
Website: http://www.silentmike.us
Text Message: mob...@silentmike.us
"Leftist Derangment" <jo...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:osWdnWSSCY_...@aros.net...